Hi guys,

I've been interested in putting in Heath's balance flow mod, but since it's gone over to the new vendor, the new price point is completely untouchable by mere mortals.

See the price at the new website referenced by Heath:

http://www.heathdiesel.com/P/HDP1551/

$824+ shipping? WOW.

OK, any way to fab one up with Home Depot parts?

Rob :)

ouch...thats a salty dog!!

weld a bung on the plate (one each side) drill out the hole (duh) and this is where it gets fuzzy. I think one could attach a length of hose to the bung, run it up to a "tee",and down to the other bung. Now from the "tee" forward to? another "tee", water pump? cross over? Not sure on this one. Shoot, I don't know if what I described would work or not.

good marketing there i think,. love the shiney stainless etc,. with life time silicone hoses etc,. balance flow? Hmmm,. looks like they opened up the water ports at the back of each head,so that out bound flow needs to regulated back to the rad by the stat,.so the modified crossover must have another water port entering it before the stat,.
this mod is common on race motors, 4 corner coolant flow,.

Nick

Do a search for this....look under the username cowracer. Tim and I discussed his 'home built' balance flow about a year or so ago.

What is gong on? I couldn't find it listed for our trucks. They only listed it under the H1 now. And the HO injectors are a lot more than I paid as well.

Do a search for this....look under the username cowracer. Tim and I discussed his 'home built' balance flow about a year or so ago.

Thanks Chris,

Found Tim's post - I actually recall reading it, but was having trouble finding anything under "balance flow". Here's the thread:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37645&highlight=coolant+flow

and another one:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93237&highlight=coolant+flow

Thanks!

Rob :)

I found a kit on that site without the fancy stainless steel tee.
Staff edit, link to non site sponsor Teka toys removed

GM seems to make these mistakes in numerous engines. I corrected this on the small block chevys of mine and when I built my 6.5 diesel, I noticed the same mistake so I took the same action.
What GM does is direct the cooled water from the water pump into the front of the heads and then allow for the water to immediately exit to the thermostat. This is great for cooling the front half of the heads but the rear most part of the heads have a heat difference of 20-40 degrees higher. If ever you have an engine failure, it is always the rearward pistons of the GM engines.
So what I do is block off the front two ports with gasket material and then drill about a 1/4 inch hole in order to restrict the water flow. Then at the rear of the heads I plumb in outlets from each corner and direct the flow of water to the thermostat housing. This causes water to flow out from the rear of the heads faster than from the front which in turn gives you a more balanced temperature engine.

The 6.5 has an outlet at the back of the heads but are blocked off. You can buy a threaded block off or else tap your existing one.

[quote=cag13x;2600901]I found a kit on that site without the fancy stainless steel tee.
Staff edit link to non site sponsor Teka toys removed
Hmm. That's the same site selling the Heath balance flow kit, just this one has no balance flow tank... Hmmm.

Rob :)

So where does the tee go to in front?

So where does the tee go to in front?

It looks like the 'super duper' kit with the tank has a special crossover with an extra tap in it. The 'non-balance-tank' version looks like it just ties into the heater hose.

Rob :)

Anytime a post is erroneous in content and scope, the required correction tends to make the poster look like an idiot, which is not the intent of the correction, by any means (sometimes) - I have posted detailed description of the 6.2\6.5L bypass coolant system on several occasions, and the material is still there for the reading - here it is again - you can reference some of the pics in Jason's 6.5 teardown thread for associative illustration.

The 6.2L Diesel engine, never known for overheating if properly maintained, was designed with a bypass-recirculation type coolant system - this design used a water-crossover\t-stat housing between the heads like many other dual-bank engines, but with an extra port below the t-stat on the engine side - this port was connected directly to the low-pressure inlet side of the waterpump impeller, such that the waterpump constantly pumped coolant thru the block and heads, drawing the return effluent from behind the closed t-stat - coolant was continually bypassed, even when the t-stat opened to pass hot engine coolant to the radiator - driver observing the coolant guage would see it sit at ~160degF, very very slowly creeping up to 190deg, then plummet like a shot back to 160deg when the t-stat finally opened, just as if the IGN was switched off - put a load on the truck, and the swings were quicker, but still swinging hi-lo-hi-lo - that system was used thru to the serpentine belt era, with the new ccw waterpump.

The 'new' 6.5L also used a bypass coolant system, but the turbo required an important change, required to maintain operable coolant temperatures: the gated-bypass system, where the bypass port was made larger, with larger waterpump impeller indicating greater btu output, but with a valve-plate extension on the t-stat, such that the bypass was full open when the t-stat was closed, but gradually valved closed as the t-stat opened, indicating even greater btu thru-put - driver no longer could watch the coolant guage needle move after reaching operation temps, only increasing as the load increased

Looking at either series block, you'll notice two holes at the front of the block either side of the timing cover, just below the cylinder deck - these are where the water pump feeds coolant into the water-jacket - also note a pattern of holes in the cylinder decks, identical side-to-side, front to rear, bank-to-bank - those directly around the cylinders are tapped head-bolt holes - most of the others are core clean-out holes, where the sand-casting is removed after the cast-iron block cools - you'll notice a larger rectangular hole at the rear of the each deck, near the edge, but none at the front: this is the water passage where the pumped coolant flows from the block into the heads - again, you'll notice no such holes at the front of the decks, effectively preventing fresh coolant flow directly into the heads - all the clean-out holes are blocked off by the head-gasket, with only small steam-holes to allow for air bleed-out and such, so there is little coolant flow into the head thru those - coolant flows from the front of the block, around the cylinders, thru to that rectangular hole, then into the heads at the rear - this is why the rear-most cylinder #8 runs hotter than the other seven, and the operating clearances are design-spec'ed larger due to greater heat-expansion.

Looking at the heads, you'll notice the holes in the deck sufaces are identical, front-to-rear, side-to-side, both heads, even to the large water passage, one at each end of the head - this is because GM builds one head for each engine: the head serves double duty, designed to bolt onto either cylinder bank, fully interchangeable - as in the block, the holes around the cylinders are for head-bolts - the two irregular holes on either end are for oil drain-back from the valve-train - two adjacent holes above each cylinder are for the valve push-rods - the remaining holes are core clean-out, with the rectangular hole at each end for coolant-flow - since the heads are interchangeable side-to-side, when the head is installed on the block the passage at the front is blocked by the blank cylinder deck, the passage at the rear matches the one in the block - again, the head-gasket blocks all the other holes to the water-jacket.

Now, what you cannot see is the large area inside the head-casting where the pre-cup nest and the valve-guides and the intake\exhaust passages around the valves take up critical space in the water-jacket, totally increasing heated mass while reducing surface-area exposed to coolant - area not only required for adequate cooling, but restricting normal coolant flow thru the heads - this area runs tremendously hotter than in those other engines, and is the total source of all over-heating in this engine.

Again, fresh radiator-cooled coolant is never, and is not, pumped into the heads at the front of the block - again, the last rearmost cylinder in all GM engines runs hotter than the other cylinders - even hotter in this block, #8 along with #6, sometimes #4, because of the average 650degF turbo\exhaust manifold temperature directly adjacent to those cylinders

To further combat the prevalent cooling problems in the 6.5TD engine, GM released the dual t-stat crossover manifold in '97, going back to the non-valved constant bypass system, utilizing dual t-stats with separate temp ratings to meter total flow, bypass and radiator-bound - they increased the fan diameter and number of blades - they again increased the impeller diameter in the new HO water-pump - they revised the coolant passages in the heads to promote increased flow thru\around the pre-cup\valve area block-off - they etc, etc..............

Supposedly there have been other changes, but I sorta passed-off the ball after switching to the Cummins side, so someone else will need to fill in those details.

Bill Heath worked with a PhD on the design of his coolant-bypass system, based on Bill's 6.2\6.5 knowledge and maybe some input from the 6.5 forums, and it works, tho somewhat expensive for the avg working stiff - it is not just three hoses tied to a can, for those backward-facing 'engineers'

The real problem is simple: the 6.2L was designed to cure GM's CAFE ills, never meant to be more than 135hp - the mistake was when GM increased the bore (to disguise the weak 6.2 heritage) and kludged a turbo onto the 'new' 6.5L engine with no other changes except the plastic TURBO POWER cover, in a desperate attempt to keep up with sales of Dodge\Cummins and Ford\Navstar turbo-charged medium-duty packages while the DMax resolution was being worked out (and a fine solution it is).

There you have it, in a nutshell, folks - that's why you need take particular care when considering snake oils, potions, and dual-electric cure-alls for your 6.5 ailments.

As we often tell you, and you just as often hate us for it, they never worked, they do not work, and they will never work.................

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

GMCTD,

Thank you once again for coming to the aid of those who have less knowledge. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post, and I think I understand what's going on. My background is in electronics, but (as you probably know), to get an electronics engineering degree, you have to take thermodynamics, and basic physics, etc. Everything you said makes good sense. Did we have content and scope errors? If so, wherein are our errors?

We await your corrections and wise words. Do not fear, we are here to learn and when we were kids, the teacher wrote "takes constructive criticism well" on our report cards...

Rob :)

well I feel like an idiat...

Anytime a post is erroneous in content and scope, the required correction tends to make the poster look like an idiot, which is not the intent of the correction, by any means (sometimes) - I have posted detailed description of the 6.2\6.5L bypass coolant system on several occasions, and the material is still there for the reading - here it is again - you can reference some of the pics in Jason's 6.5 teardown thread for associative illustration.

The 6.2L Diesel engine, never known for overheating if properly maintained, was designed with a bypass-recirculation type coolant system - this design used a water-crossover\t-stat housing between the heads like many other dual-bank engines, but with an extra port below the t-stat on the engine side - this port was connected directly to the low-pressure inlet side of the waterpump impeller, such that the waterpump constantly pumped coolant thru the block and heads, drawing the return effluent from behind the closed t-stat - coolant was continually bypassed, even when the t-stat opened to pass hot engine coolant to the radiator - driver observing the coolant guage would see it sit at ~160degF, very very slowly creeping up to 190deg, then plummet like a shot back to 160deg when the t-stat finally opened, just as if the IGN was switched off - put a load on the truck, and the swings were quicker, but still swinging hi-lo-hi-lo - that system was used thru to the serpentine belt era, with the new ccw waterpump.

The 'new' 6.5L also used a bypass coolant system, but the turbo required an important change, required to maintain operable coolant temperatures: the gated-bypass system, where the bypass port was made larger, with larger waterpump impeller indicating greater btu output, but with a valve-plate extension on the t-stat, such that the bypass was full open when the t-stat was closed, but gradually valved closed as the t-stat opened, indicating even greater btu thru-put - driver no longer could watch the coolant guage needle move after reaching operation temps, only increasing as the load increased

Looking at either series block, you'll notice two holes at the front of the block either side of the timing cover, just below the cylinder deck - these are where the water pump feeds coolant into the water-jacket - also note a pattern of holes in the cylinder decks, identical side-to-side, front to rear, bank-to-bank - those directly around the cylinders are tapped head-bolt holes - most of the others are core clean-out holes, where the sand-casting is removed after the cast-iron block cools - you'll notice a larger rectangular hole at the rear of the each deck, near the edge, but none at the front: this is the water passage where the pumped coolant flows from the block into the heads - again, you'll notice no such holes at the front of the decks, effectively preventing fresh coolant flow directly into the heads - all the clean-out holes are blocked off by the head-gasket, with only small steam-holes to allow for air bleed-out and such, so there is little coolant flow into the head thru those - coolant flows from the front of the block, around the cylinders, thru to that rectangular hole, then into the heads at the rear - this is why the rear-most cylinder #8 runs hotter than the other seven, and the operating clearances are design-spec'ed larger due to greater heat-expansion.

Looking at the heads, you'll notice the holes in the deck sufaces are identical, front-to-rear, side-to-side, both heads, even to the large water passage, one at each end of the head - this is because GM builds one head for each engine: the head serves double duty, designed to bolt onto either cylinder bank, fully interchangeable - as in the block, the holes around the cylinders are for head-bolts - the two irregular holes on either end are for oil drain-back from the valve-train - two adjacent holes above each cylinder are for the valve push-rods - the remaining holes are core clean-out, with the rectangular hole at each end for coolant-flow - since the heads are interchangeable side-to-side, when the head is installed on the block the passage at the front is blocked by the blank cylinder deck, the passage at the rear matches the one in the block - again, the head-gasket blocks all the other holes to the water-jacket.

Now, what you cannot see is the large area inside the head-casting where the pre-cup nest and the valve-guides and the intake\exhaust passages around the valves take up critical space in the water-jacket, totally increasing heated mass while reducing surface-area exposed to coolant - area not only required for adequate cooling, but restricting normal coolant flow thru the heads - this area runs tremendously hotter than in those other engines, and is the total source of all over-heating in this engine.

Again, fresh radiator-cooled coolant is never, and is not, pumped into the heads at the front of the block - again, the last rearmost cylinder in all GM engines runs hotter than the other cylinders - even hotter in this block, #8 along with #6, sometimes #4, because of the average 650degF turbo\exhaust manifold temperature directly adjacent to those cylinders

To further combat the prevalent cooling problems in the 6.5TD engine, GM released the dual t-stat crossover manifold in '97, going back to the non-valved constant bypass system, utilizing dual t-stats with separate temp ratings to meter total flow, bypass and radiator-bound - they increased the fan diameter and number of blades - they again increased the impeller diameter in the new HO water-pump - they revised the coolant passages in the heads to promote increased flow thru\around the pre-cup\valve area block-off - they etc, etc..............

Supposedly there have been other changes, but I sorta passed-off the ball after switching to the Cummins side, so someone else will need to fill in those details.

Bill Heath worked with a PhD on the design of his coolant-bypass system, based on Bill's 6.2\6.5 knowledge and maybe some input from the 6.5 forums, and it works, tho somewhat expensive for the avg working stiff - it is not just three hoses tied to a can, for those backward-facing 'engineers'

The real problem is simple: the 6.2L was designed to cure GM's CAFE ills, never meant to be more than 135hp - the mistake was when GM increased the bore (to disguise the weak 6.2 heritage) and kludged a turbo onto the 'new' 6.5L engine with no other changes except the plastic TURBO POWER cover, in a desperate attempt to keep up with sales of Dodge\Cummins and Ford\Navstar turbo-charged medium-duty packages while the DMax resolution was being worked out (and a fine solution it is).

There you have it, in a nutshell, folks - that's why you need take particular care when considering snake oils, potions, and dual-electric cure-alls for your 6.5 ailments.

As we often tell you, and you just as often hate us for it, they never worked, they do not work, and they will never work.................

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
phew,. so your saying that even bill heaths coolant bypass doesn't work,? i dunno,. you always equate everything to an engineer somewhere,. i guess us dumb hill billies with a pair of vice grips and a 9/16ths don't count for much in your books eh? I,ve some friends i know that always bring everthing down to the closest thousandth of an inch,. caliper in hand they are always over designing things, some times they just forget the object of the exercise is to just drain the damn swamp,.
nick

Anytime a post is erroneous in content and scope, the required correction tends to make the poster look like an idiot....

Bill Heath worked with a PhD on the design of his coolant-bypass system, based on Bill's 6.2\6.5 knowledge and maybe some input from the 6.5 forums, and it works, tho somewhat expensive for the avg working stiff - it is not just three hoses tied to a can, for those backward-facing 'engineers'

The real problem is simple: the 6.2L was designed to cure GM's CAFE ills, never meant to be more than 135hp - the mistake was when GM increased the bore (to disguise the weak 6.2 heritage) and kludged a turbo onto the 'new' 6.5L engine with no other changes except the plastic TURBO POWER cover, in a desperate attempt to keep up with sales of Dodge\Cummins and Ford\Navstar turbo-charged medium-duty packages while the DMax resolution was being worked out (and a fine solution it is).

There you have it, in a nutshell, folks - that's why you need take particular care when considering snake oils, potions, and dual-electric cure-alls for your 6.5 ailments.

As we often tell you, and you just as often hate us for it, they never worked, they do not work, and they will never work.................

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

OK, GMCTD,

You gave us a lot of good information. The item in post #8 is being marketed by the same firm that is partnering with Bill Heath on the balance-flow product... exactly what is it that you think is snake oil?

I understand that you feel that the '97 cooling mods were a patch, but that the patch, as you say "Doesn't mean the problem does not exist, just that the factory 'patch' works."

Any other words of wisdom?

Bottom line is, I am considering chipping and upping the boost on the Tahoe, and want to ensure that I don't overwhelm the stock '95 cooling system in the process.

Heath doesn't sell the dual 'stat setup, saying that the HO pump and upgraded fan/clutch is enough. I'm just trying to figure out the best value for my application.

Thanks again,

Rob :)

No, guys - my statement clearly indicated that Bill's fix works, that is expensive, and for those 'guessers' it is not 'just a can with three attached hoses' - dunno about the other one on the other site, but as I indicated B4, Turbine Doc has been field testing Bill's version for about a year now with great success, pulling a 14000lb backhoe with his 1500 6.5

There's been several snake-oil posts recently, so I mentioned snake-oil, as most people don't want to hear something negative about something they're thinking about - it's like we're insulting their opinion, or something - to me, if it doesn't work, I'm not gonna tell you to try it - I'd rather have you p.o.'ed at me than wind up with a broke truck.

When using Bill's products, go with his advice - one thing to remember, most of his stuff is geared for towing, and his advice is sound, having been proven on many trucks over many mountains - use his equipment, ahdere to his advice, and you'll not be disappointed

I'm a retired 66yr-old engineer, Nick - I don't mind poking fun at myself

Comprehending Engineers - Take One
Two engineering students were walking across campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?"
The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike.
She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want."
"The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; The clothes probably wouldn't have fit."

Comprehending Engineers - Take Two

An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or a mistress.
The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship.
The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there.
The engineer said, "I like both."
"Both?"
Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the plant and get some work done."

Comprehending Engineers - Take Three

What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons,
Civil Engineers build targets.

Comprehending Engineers - Take Four

The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with an Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Five

To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Comprehending Engineers - Take Six

A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers.
The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!"
The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!"
The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greenskeeper. Let's have a word with him."
"Hi George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?"
The greenskeeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment.
The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight."
The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Seven

Three engineering students were gathered together discussing the possible designers of the human body.
One said, "It was a mechanical engineer. Just look at all the joints."
Another said, "No, it was an electrical engineer. The nervous system has many thousands of electrical connections."
The last said, "Actually it was a civil engineer. Who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Eight

An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess".
He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."
The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.
The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."
Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The engineer said, "Look I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."

A Civil Engineer who was a P.E. shows up to a construction site driving a Cadillac Escalade. He jumps out and runs to the Porta Pottie and after a few walks out with Toilet Paper folded up in his hand. He looks around for a gopher hole and wipes the hole entrance clean. Then he walks back to the Porta Pottie and tosses the toilet paper into the tank.
Write an essay on this Engineer:

Correct answer: He doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground!

GMCTD,

Those are terrific. Thanks for sharing!... the Jokes AND the advice!

Rob :)

Uncle GMCTD, does this mean I'm not an idiat?

Apologies, dude - been playing on 5 different Diesel forums, overlooked your post in the melee - nah, wasn't pointing any fingers, just general reminder that members should make sure they're posting the facts, not what they've heard somewhere else - people exposed to 'new' ideas and concepts generally accept the first thing they read on the printed page - if it's wrong, that makes it difficult to 'learn' them something different, to bring them back from the brink, as it were

Be wise, and go in peace, grasshopper...................

There are many factors that contribute to previous knowledge impacting the acquisition of new information. In general, transfer of previous learning is quite important for knowledge acquisition, so I think gmctd is on the right track to try and stop any false information from getting into the black box we call learning.

Negative transfer, when previous learning impairs new learning (e.g., previous learning of incorrect information about a system prevents correct understanding) is a lot like a faulty grounds on 6.5L TDs: they cause all sorts of bad stuff to happen, but are easy to prevent if you know what you are doing. :)

Jon


Apologies, dude - been playing on 5 different Diesel forums, overlooked your post in the melee - nah, wasn't pointing any fingers, just general reminder that members should make sure they're posting the facts, not what they've heard somewhere else - people exposed to 'new' ideas and concepts generally accept the first thing they read on the printed page - if it's wrong, that makes it difficult to 'learn' them something different, to bring them back from the brink, as it were

Be wise, and go in peace, grasshopper...................

if it doesn't work, I'm not gonna tell you to try it - I'd rather have you p.o.'ed at me than wind up with a broke truck. I don't mind poking fun at myself


Many new Members now........ and perhaps some of the old one's, forgot your sense of humor, while you were.....Well whatever it was you were doing. Don't forget you were MIA from us for a good little while. They'll learn how to read between the jokes to get the "Meat".
Glad your back, so now I could read your posts twice, Once to figure out the info and second to figure out the info......

Louis

I take it the Jeep thing is all figured out.......

So is a homemade BF better than having nothing?........and/or is it worth the time, effort and material for us "Massive Blowby Club Members" whose trucks are a little long in the tooth?

Thanks,
Louis

I don't understand how a part that has been out for years can go up so much in price. The R&D has already been paid for, and there doesn't look to be a whole lot to it. My truck doesn't run hot towing in the Arizona heat without one, so what's the point?

Not sure on that one, maybe just a little insurance I guess. 'Sides, its technogigitycoolthingitybob and its SHINY which we all know = cool!!

(maybe I am an idiat after all)

I've installed a competing product to the Heath unit in some other Hummers that run the 6.5TD. It's not a complex thing.

I've even sourced out the stuff to make my own version.

The blockoff plates and the gaskets can be bought at any Chevy dealer. The rest can generally be found at an Ace Hardware. Braided tubing with the appropriate fittings can be made at any brake shop.

The cost of everything - about 200 bucks after the labor done at the brake shop. This was done paying list price for parts, drilling/tapping the block off plate by myself, and paying for anaerobic sealant for the fittings.

A generic balance kit from some of the 6.5 vendors can be found as low as $300. Is my labor difference worth 100 dollars? Considering the cost of diesel - maybe.

Do they all work? Dunno. Theoretically they should remove the stagnant coolant in that area. I do know that the two units that I've helped install have made the rear A/C heaters work far faster since I tapped into the rear A/C heater hose.

And in the G-Van engine, the #8 block off plate and it's associated fitting/braided brake hose is way too close to 1) the glow plug controller and it's wiring and 2) interferes with the removal/installation of any replacement wastegate controller.

Just my .02 since I've done installs of these things before.

-Steve

I don't understand how a part that has been out for years can go up so much in price. The R&D has already been paid for, and there doesn't look to be a whole lot to it. My truck doesn't run hot towing in the Arizona heat without one, so what's the point?

Look at target audience "if you can afford to own & feed a Hummer" then what is a few hunnert more $$$ between friends, here was my entry into the kit, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83474 I spent significantly less than what being sold for now by the Hummer shops.

I wrote a tech article sent to Heath for accuracy review about same time they decided to pull from catalog for the truck/burb crowd, costs gone up I never posted much more as most guys don't need it anyway. Heath will sell I think if you make a special request, I don't know what pricing they might be able to accomodate since buying from source vs Hummer shop have to call them I guess.

Works well in Hummers I'm told, their rad/is wholly different than ours, we benefift from dual stat & h/o pumps, and "in grille" vs in hood cooling, that said even on hottest of days I've yet to break 200F coolant temp towing, was a time once I drove with defrost on hot to pull heat when I blew a IC line moving my John Deere & impliments about 12K trailer & load. But other than that one incident mostly I'm 192-197 when towing.

Cost escallation was one factor for pulling kit from general 6.5 market I think, parts for kit are laser cut, which ain't cheap, high $$$ stainless and, hose that sells by $$$ to the inch, like the better IC hose & elbows are made from.

Despite what some have said on other sites, mine has been on since May 06 next month will be 2 years, I've hauled a plenty in those 2 years, no downside yet, I have other stuff in my sig that may be doing as much as anything else to balance out my temps, but I'm happy with what is working here on mine, feel free to refute its potential, just wanted to add in some experience/isight from one who has installed it.

I don't understand how a part that has been out for years can go up so much in price. The R&D has already been paid for, and there doesn't look to be a whole lot to it. My truck doesn't run hot towing in the Arizona heat without one, so what's the point?


-You got A clean rad, condensor and the oil and tranny coolers are clean= nice air flow......Cool motor overall=Happy engine.........
But from how I understand it, even if the cooling system is operating perfect and there are no "heat issues",.......There's still a Design Issue.....those back cylinders, #8 and #6 (I think, check GMCTD's post/s for the for the technical info) are just to plain HOT, even with a 100% cooling system.
This Balance flow device corrects that......Now all the cylinders are where they should be, (Heat wise) so that= Happy motor that won't have all those head and headgasket issues,......adds longevity I guess.....
But at $800, or whatever it cost, that is alot of money for my old truck.
Like Sshewins said, "Insurance"

Louis




Not sure on that one, maybe just a little insurance I guess. 'Sides, its technogigitycoolthingitybob and its SHINY which we all know = cool!!

(maybe I am an idiat after all)


Guess i'm one two!........I can't take my eyes off that "Cool shiney stuff"

Louis

Everyone seems very worried about the price of the Balance-Flow and why it is offered on one of our vendors sites and not ours. The truth is we stopped making the Balance-Flow for the trucks do to an increase in material cost that we did not think was fair to pass on to our customers. We have since shifted direction from the Balance-Flow on the trucks and Subs to a much more cost effective and overall better working system i.e. our water pump, fan, and clutch kit. Our H1 vendors asked us to keep making the BF for the H1 market because they were more willing to pay the higher cost. I hope this answers your questions.

Hummers from 96 onward always came with dual stats and the higher output water pump.

The Hummer's cooling stack is angled in an odd way - I'll admit that. And the radiator is on the friggin bottom of that stack to boot. Bad design, but considering that this is a Milspec vehicle that's converted to civvy use, oh well.

One of the things that I know the balance kits will help is preventing heat degradation of the head gaskets. Some Hummer owners who went through bunches of FelPro head gaskets have added cooling kits from various people and have not had an issue with the head gasket since. A lot of the head gaskets have blown in the area of the #6 to #8 cylinder area.

With regards to towing - My towing and other items are limited to pulling my M101-A2 trailer at 3/4 ton, so the most heavy duty thing I tend to do is off roading more than anything.

With all this being said - I understand the dynamics of it (at least within my engineering knowledge, which is more bent towards Computer Systems Engineering rather than mechanical and thermodynamics) and can understand why and how it works. I also don't refute the potential of it - I've seen and worked on enough G-Van engines in various Hummers here in Arizona to see that a balance kit of any kind works, and works well.

As for Heath's comments about willing to pay the higher cost - here's a slight rant.

This Hummer owner is rather tired of getting screwed on costs just because I own a Hummer. I know that my truck has a Chevy G-Van 6.5TD - why should I pay out the rear for my engine parts and mods? My truck uses AMC 20 diffs - why should I pay more for that? My truck uses a Ford Escort steering column - should I get beaten in the wallet for that? I say no.

I'm willing to spend money on parts that I know work. Heath's Turbo Master, for example, is worth the money, even though I've created my own homebrew variant. Why? I can't make it exceed 12psi boost (which is the target max PSI that I want anyways). I know that if someone monkeys with it (hard to get to considering it's place in the engine bay, but I digress), it can only go downwards in boost - not up. Great design, great spring setup, and is worth every penny I paid for.

This Hummer owner shops around - I'll fork out the cash for excellent parts that have a proven track record AND provides a value beyond others in some way. I personally cannot see the difference between the Heath balance kit versus others, even though I see the usefulness of having a balance kit in the first place.

Hence why I'm not willing to spend the cash for the Heath variant (resold by Predator and Teaka Toys) when I'm able to see first hand on trucks I've worked on that spending far less gets similar results and leaves more money for other mods for the truck.

Just my .02....

-Steve




Works well in Hummers I'm told, their rad/is wholly different than ours, we benefift from dual stat & h/o pumps, and "in grille" vs in hood cooling, that said even on hottest of days I've yet to break 200F coolant temp towing, was a time once I drove with defrost on hot to pull heat when I blew a IC line moving my John Deere & impliments about 12K trailer & load. But other than that one incident mostly I'm 192-197 when towing.

Cost escallation was one factor for pulling kit from general 6.5 market I think, parts for kit are laser cut, which ain't cheap, high $$$ stainless and, hose that sells by $$$ to the inch, like the better IC hose & elbows are made from.

It was asked earlier in this thread and I am wondering the same thing, but it hasn't been answered....but why is this cooling fix (and I assume the problem) only geared towards the Hummer?? Wouldn't my truck have the same cooling design?

So is a homemade BF better than having nothing?........and/or is it worth the time, effort and material for us "Massive Blowby Club Members" whose trucks are a little long in the tooth?

Thanks,
Louis

I think homegrown is worth a try, Beastmaster seems happy with his setup. I have been an airline mechanic for 21 years and I know what is critical and what isnt, these things are just old diesel trucks. I dont think the world will come to an end if you dont line somebodys pocket with $800 for some hose and fittings.
Research and development? BlahBlah, 4 corner cooling done on chevy heads for decades.
Support the vendors? Selling $500 piston sets for $1000? and many other such great deals. Reasonable and normal markups are great by me but I have a problem with hosing people because you can. I dont know maybe guys like to be hosed and they are proud to tell how many bazillion dollars they sent to ----- for stuff for their truck.

Comprehending Engineers - Take One
Two engineering students were walking across campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?"
The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike.
She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want."
"The second engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; The clothes probably wouldn't have fit."

Comprehending Engineers - Take Two

An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or a mistress.
The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship.
The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there.
The engineer said, "I like both."
"Both?"
Engineer: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the plant and get some work done."

Comprehending Engineers - Take Three

What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons,
Civil Engineers build targets.

Comprehending Engineers - Take Four

The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with an Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Five

To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Comprehending Engineers - Take Six

A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers.
The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!"
The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!"
The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greenskeeper. Let's have a word with him."
"Hi George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?"
The greenskeeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment.
The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight."
The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Seven

Three engineering students were gathered together discussing the possible designers of the human body.
One said, "It was a mechanical engineer. Just look at all the joints."
Another said, "No, it was an electrical engineer. The nervous system has many thousands of electrical connections."
The last said, "Actually it was a civil engineer. Who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?"

Comprehending Engineers - Take Eight

An engineer was crossing a road one day when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess".
He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."
The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.
The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."
Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess, that I'll stay with you for a week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The engineer said, "Look I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."

A Civil Engineer who was a P.E. shows up to a construction site driving a Cadillac Escalade. He jumps out and runs to the Porta Pottie and after a few walks out with Toilet Paper folded up in his hand. He looks around for a gopher hole and wipes the hole entrance clean. Then he walks back to the Porta Pottie and tosses the toilet paper into the tank.
Write an essay on this Engineer:

Correct answer: He doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground!

Thats funny, thanks, :cool:

Everyone seems very worried about the price of the Balance-Flow and why it is offered on one of our vendors sites and not ours. The truth is we stopped making the Balance-Flow for the trucks do to an increase in material cost that we did not think was fair to pass on to our customers. We have since shifted direction from the Balance-Flow on the trucks and Subs to a much more cost effective and overall better working system i.e. our water pump, fan, and clutch kit. Our H1 vendors asked us to keep making the BF for the H1 market because they were more willing to pay the higher cost. I hope this answers your questions.

So then, for guys like me with older vans, what am I supposed to do?


I read this and the other threads and I think I will try and make my own.

It was asked earlier in this thread and I am wondering the same thing, but it hasn't been answered....but why is this cooling fix (and I assume the problem) only geared towards the Hummer?? Wouldn't my truck have the same cooling design?

Your truck would have a similar setup. My cousin's Burb with a F Series 6.5 has blockoff plates in his. He's got a single thermostat though.

The difference is this: Some balance flows attach to the thermostat housing. Other's don't.

The ones I've helped install patch into the heater hose return flow. So the ones that I've helped install are generic units.

I won't get into naming non-supporting vendors. But there are other vendors out there who make generic balance flow units that will work with other 6.5L TD applications.

-Steve

Thats funny, thanks, :cool:
So then, for guys like me with older vans, what am I supposed to do?
I read this and the other threads and I think I will try and make my own.

You can try and make your own. I can say that creating and sealing the block off plates are a royal pain. I've recommended that people buy and purchase a pre made kit.

Again, there are other vendors (who will remain nameless according to policy) that sell balance flow kits.

Search the Hummer H1 sites. There are mentions of them in the two major ones (Humvee.net and FlashOffRoad).

-Steve