I was looking for performance 4L80E's and I found this beauty. It's rated for over 1500 ft lbs torque. What stall speed converter would be ideal for a 300 hp 500 tq diesel engine towing 10K# uphill?

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/SilverQuad.jpg

Its always a good idea to ask how/what they do when they build a trans. If they dont want to answer your question, aside from "trade secrets" then be wary. I have seen way to many "performance" transmissions fail because the only thing performance about them was the price. Not saying anything bad about any company, just do your research

How much is it and who builds it?
I looked into an ATS 4l80 built trans with triple loc converter, $3500. It's expensive compared to a standard rebuild, $1800 but a much better set up. I will go with the ATS when I need it.

That's TCI.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm It was $2850 no core for the one above but if you got the add on's like a hardend input shaft, lower 1st and 2nd planetary,even higher performance torque converter, ect, it could get expensive fast. These guys use red eagle parts so I looked them up to see what the factory prices were.and I also looked at http://drivetrain.com they are cheaper than TCI

A very good source for a strong tranny is BTS , brian trannsmission .. almost bulletproof from what I hear.... the only problem.. he does the ford trannies E40D and 4R100...
He might know someone that is as good as him with the 4L80E's,,,

http://www.brianstruckshop.com/index.html

Pete

I honestly think that even a modded 6.5 will not put out much more then 700 ft lbs and 300 fwhp. A blue box trans go kit with some good clutches and a solid converter should do wonders and it'll be a whole lot cheaper. I dont really see a need for a heavier input shaft as I've never seen or heard of one breaking.

BTS is awesome on the Ford stuff for sure

I have yet to talk to a transmission shop that would tell me how many bench hours they are charging me for when rebuilding a trans. Lets see, a bunch of o-rings, floaters and friction disks.........that'll be $1600 for a stock rebuild if you bring the transmission in out of the truck. No thanks, I'll do it myself.

I agree with grape - if it was slipping when I pulled it out, it's gonna go back in not slipping.
Crimped soft piston rings, teflon shaft seal-rings dropped on the floor, walked on, wiped off and installed - uh uh.

And I have seen 4L80E hollow input shafts twisted off - usually in wrecker sevice, where some idiot 'switched' the TCC control to hard lock-up.

The PWM TCC control was intended to protect that hollow shaft and the stator shaft from torsional stress associated with accel\decel torque\reverse torque.

Same damaged transmissions also show 'swaged' internal\external splines throughout internal shafts\hub components.

I'm going to attempt to rebuild my own, I've never even unbolted an automatic pan before in my life. But if I can stack my own jerico's, and build my own 3rd members I think I can handle it. From what I've seen the most complicated thing is trying to figure out the various spring compressors to get the snap rings loose cause I'm cheap and will build them myself. It should be entertaining anyway.

I think you'll enjoy it, overall - maybe not as much as some of your other projects, but the satisfaction of knowing it is a task well done is always worth it, imo.

Not even to mention the learning\acquired experience.

I'm going to attempt to rebuild my own, I've never even unbolted an automatic pan before in my life. But if I can stack my own jerico's, and build my own 3rd members I think I can handle it. From what I've seen the most complicated thing is trying to figure out the various spring compressors to get the snap rings loose cause I'm cheap and will build them myself. It should be entertaining anyway.My plan was kinda the same. IE do the rebuild myself even though I've never done it. The drive train.com link has a listing for a repair manual and a 1 hr rebuild walk through.

My plan was kinda the same. IE do the rebuild myself even though I've never done it. The drive train.com link has a listing for a repair manual and a 1 hr rebuild walk through.
I have that manual and it seems pretty good. It shows all years interchangable parts and upgraded parts with side by side prints for each part showing the differences to know if your trans has newer parts or not.

I'm going to attempt to rebuild my own, I've never even unbolted an automatic pan before in my life. But if I can stack my own jerico's, and build my own 3rd members I think I can handle it. From what I've seen the most complicated thing is trying to figure out the various spring compressors to get the snap rings loose cause I'm cheap and will build them myself. It should be entertaining anyway.
I've been through many automatics. If an idiot like me can do it, you surly can. ;)

the assembly is the easiest, its trying to figure out whats wrong when your done if something dont work that will make a guy mad

that's what scares me, it's alot of work and mess if you get it done and it doesn't work correctly. The people who are going to do my converter, also have a stand set up to run transmissions in, so I could possibly get my controller tuned in on their stand if I ask nicely.

the assembly is the easiest, its trying to figure out whats wrong when your done if something dont work that will make a guy madThat's where having a good understanding of the function really helps. Also, a good set of service manuals is priceless.

I learned automatics on GM TH350's. I kept breaking them in my Camaro...

Ronnie, exactly. A good set of manuals is priceless.

I will be the first to admit that not having done a ton of these trannies, I still refer to the book quite a bit during o/h. It seems here in the dealer that when these fail, 9 out of 10 is so far gone, its cheaper to replace with a reman. Hard parts are big bucks when buying from the dealer. Throw an Alli at me in a box or a 4T65E (Grand Prix/montana van/etc) and no problem..

Here's some parts diagram from www.drivetrain.com (http://www.drivetrain.com)
http://drivetrain.com/4l80e_partill.jpg

I did mine myself. It wasn't too bad. I think it would have been worse if it had been totally fried. I just decided to freshen it up. I didn't even use any spring compessors. I think there was only one pack that I had trouble with. It's been a few years, so I don't remember all the details. Seems like I used a couple c-clamps. I would recommend getting the seal protectors though. Much safer and easier. If you tear up a seal and don't catch it before you reinstall the trans, it would be a heartbreaker. Get a good manual. I used the ATSG manual.

I ordered a manual, master rebuild kit, improved tcc lock up valve and a shift solenoid for $227 delivered from drivetrain.com

What is the improved lock up valve? I've noticed a little shudder when mine unlocks on occasion.

Hey guys im just gonna share some stuff ive learned rebuilding my 4l60e twice, so forgive me if I start ranting.

If your like me and have a fulltime job and daily honey do lists, plan on it taking a couple of weeks if you fully rebuild it. Im sure you could bang one out in a weekend if you rushed it and skipped alot of corners. But I wouldnt. The nice thing about the 80e's is some of the internal parts, are identical to a th400, which has many parts available. Some are different obviously.

The ATSG manual is a must. You will refer to this alot...and then some more. I havent delt with any other manuals but I have heard nothing but good things about this one. This is a must IMHO.

You will need a area to start setting parts as you take them out so find a spot to do this. I have always setup a sheet of plywood on sawhorses next to my workbench. Then laying down shop towels under parts when I feel necessary. IIRC there is 4 major sections of the 80 after you get the internals out. It will be alot easier if you just focus on one section at a time when rebuilding.

If your tranny failed, you must take everything apart. Yes, even that. Everything must be medically clean when you put it back in. Flush your radiator and trans lines also. Send your TC to get rebuilt or just get a new one.

Buy a big jar of vaseline aka assembly lube and a toothbrush. One case of brake cleaner should get you started. Snap ring pliers- they have a nice set at autozone that you can switch to compress a ring or contract it.

Heres a really good 4l60 guide that I followed my first time. I would read this thoroughly just to get a idea what lies ahead. Read everything, you will learn alot even if its not the 4l80. The guide is missing the last 10% or so.
http://syty.huryde.com/html/trans/Tranny%20Rebuild.pdf

Heres a good buildup. This core came from a truck with engine fire so he replaced anything electrical to be safe.

34 element sprag
Trangso HD2 kit
Heat ring kit Transgo
BW frictions and turbulator steels and bonded pistons
External wire harness
Force motor
shift solenoids
manifold pressure plate
PWM solenoid
External speed sensor on the front(don't need the one in the rear but they are the same)



This is also a good idea http://www.autotransinc.com/casesave.htm

Im certain I left out alot of stuff I cant remember, its been awhile. If you have any questions let me know.. turborich @ gmail dot com

It increases the load on the TCC and keep slipping to a minumun, reduces fluid burning as well as reducing engagement stress and shuddering. PN# K33887 $29.89 at www.drivetrain.com (http://www.drivetrain.com/)
They also sell the valve bodies for snappier shifts but I passed. I sodered a 100 ohm jumper on my TOT sensors + and - wires and it locks the TCC, This valve should mechanically assist that.

Thanks Quantum, I'll be getting one then.


PleaSuriveSix5, That's some good advice. ALWAYS replace the solenoids. I think I paid $35 for the pair. I had one fail (no OD) and I would have sworn it was a blown seal. All the trans guys I have talked to said they will not rebuild one without replacing the soleniods.

ok all you guys i own a tranny shop and do these things all the time one thing i sugest you do if you do anything is replace the reverse boost valve in the pump this is the source of alot of parts breakage it wears and then sticks and then you get unregulated line pressure and several diffrent things. i change every one also check bushing in centre support for wear as well one other thing to do is to scarf cut the 4 teflon rings on the input shaft they tend to shrink and at idle they can alow leakage you can see this on a scanner truck in drive idling watch the input rpm of trans should be 0 if the sealing rings have shrunk you will see 10 0 40 20 60 200 random # touch the throttle bring engine rpm up to 1000 or so and you will see trans input rpm drop back to 0 this causses premature failure of the forward clutch.; the improved lockup valve has a small 45* bevel cut on one of the lands of the valve which just ramps up and down the oil pressure a little as the lockup comes on and goes off to eliminate lockup shudder if anyone wants anymore info let me know i will help.
oh and someone wanted to know how long one of these things takes to rebuild about 4-5 hours on the bench knowone will tell you how long because every tranny is diffrent depends on the extent of damage to the trans

When you say rebuild I assume you are just replacing broken parts,clutchs,etc? How long would it take for a complete overhaul as in every bushing,seal, measuring hard parts, etc? Do you completely rebuild the pump? Maybe im missing something but this was not a 5 hr process for me.

Which shift sensor is the "A" and which is the "B". I'll post a pic with the pan off and the same question tomarrow.

the one on the drivers side is a pass side is b

5 hrs is diss assemble wash and inspect all parts replace all friction material all steel plates check all bushings replace as necessary replace all seals and gaskits check all clearences what do you mean by rebuild the pump completly there is only an inner and outer gear and 2 valves one being reverse boost the other being a lockup then bushing and seal 4l60e pump is far more complicated many more parts

Ok changed the "b" shift and it still won't go into 4th. Any ideas what's wrong? It also doesn't go into R untill it's been used awhile, that a PITA when you have to turn this bad boy around.

qm what year truck and does it have a good 3rd gear when it has no reverse does it have any codes and you should always replace both solenoids together they operate like this
a) on for first
both off for second
b)on for 3rd
both on for 4th

Dang! If I had known that I would have done them both. I had and have a great 3rd just no 4th and a weak R and a slipping tranny over all, DTC 68 and others. I parked it today with the idea of rebuilding it before going any further but I pulled the engine on my '93 first.

some trans codes will stop it from going into 4th and lockup. does it stay in 3rd or does it seem to shift into neutral. do you have a snapon mt2500 scanner? you can go to trans data and watch the led's 1and 2 are a and b running in gear stoped led 1 should be on truck drives away in 1st you should see led 1 shut off and a second later feel truck shift into 2nd then you see led 2 come on then truck shifts into 3rd then led 1 comes on as well as led 2 and truck should shift into 4th if the 1 led never comes back on and truck stays in 3rd computer is not comanding 4th if 1 led comes on and trans feels like went into neutral it actually shifted back into 1st this is a selonoid problem if it is not being comanded it is a code issue clear codes and road test to see what sets the code dtc 68 is a slippage code and will stop 4th gear and lockup
again do you have access to a snapon scanner i can tell you what to look for

I have a scantool and it has some limited tranny readouts sush as gear you're in and such and it lists codes and definitions as well as clears them> I guess I should hook it up and see what's there. I'd like to clear the DTC's and have it shift again without having to pull the pans again for the other solenoid.

ok scan it clear it and let me know:ro)

Ok
I'm getting:
074 tranny input speed loss
085 ratio undefined region
068 tranny componet slip
087 ratio high

hard codes are:
085 ratio undefined region
087 ratio high


It still dosn't shift, so I guess it's time to switch the "A" shift solenoid.

by hard codes you mean they set b4 the truck even moves code 74 input speed loss verify input speed sensor is working or just change it even with one of your other trucks it is the sensor above the shifter linkage on the out side of the trans drivers side on scanner it will be in trans data under input rpm or turbine speed should be close to engine rpm in neutral or park and drop to 0 as soon as you shift into drive or reverse. if you drive truck and watch the scanner is the computer comanding the shifts watch led 1 and 2 what year truck is this snap on scanner has a problem with 95 3500 trucks in trans side data is corrupt

Make sure the input AND output sensors are on the up and up. Output sensor is on the transfer case on the 4x4. You seem to have ratio reference issues which could be bad data from one or both.

I put new one's in. It did shift better from 2nd to 3rd after then a week and no 4th.

I pulled it in about 4 hours.

Hey QM Should we start calling you the Qtranny Mechanic?

I'm in training.

QM,
When I was getting the intermitant no 4th gear and I had the code, I was able to get someone to dig deeper and turned out to be my TPS. If this is still the 93 we're talking about here, then that may be your problem. Threw me for a loop when I changed it out and it fixed my tranny problems. Mine cost me $98.00 for the AC Delco part.
Hope this helps.
Mark

Code 85 (sorry for forgetting that)

kimagine is 85 the only code you had tps is usualy a code 22 tps too low no 4th no lockup max line pressure code 85 is incorrect gear ratio or undefined ratio error usualy caused by converter clutch slipping

It was wierd since I had the code 85 and was the only code I had at the time. We had to cross reference it with another vehicle spec and suprisingly came up with the correct problem. Strange thing is with me having a 93 6.5 TD with mostly manual stuff, the codes are not always acurate. I was just throwing this out since I had the same problem and it fixed it when I did the repair.
Just one of many in the progress.
Mark

I deceided to expidite my tranny rebuild and find someone to do it for me. After calling around to feel out some perspective shops I found Rene's transmissions in Houston. They agreed to rebuild it for $275 labor but it cost me $640 in parts. I had to have new steels, a reverse sprag, a planetary,i already had a master rebuild kit, and a towing tcc regulator valve. The number on the sign is changed to 713 691 0611
And $185 to rebuild my converter.

sounds like a good price for what you got:ro)

I hope its not one of those "you get what you paid for" deals

I picked my tranny up today, but they had it finished in in 24 hours. They didn't install my aftermarket TCC regulator valve but they specialize in rebuilds not modifications, so I put it in. I'm the modifier.

First pic is PML deep pan.
next is the valve bodies with these little balls that will fall out if you take the valvebody off with the tranny installed. the next one is the valve bodies before removal
The TCC valve has an easy to remove clip on the underside and it's roll pin is easy to lift if you compress the spring behind the TCC valve.
The difference in the regulator valves.
Then you have to restict the inlet orifice by peening the hole and retaping to .025"
I just peened it to a hairs width.

Got it bolted up tight. I noticed my cast numbers through the flywheel.