... Do differntly from GM? I was looking at specs for the Chevy 2500HD CCLB Duramax, and the max trailer weight is listed as 13,400. Go to Furd and look at the F250 superdud with the powerchoke, and it has a max trailer weight of 15,600 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/think.gif. That's 2,200# more than the GM, for the same truck type (Both SRW, 3/4 ton, 4x4, diesel, CC, 8' bed, etc). How do they get that additional 2,200?

they offer a 4.10 rear end, not sure what else is included for the rest of the weight diff.

... Do differntly from GM? I was looking at specs for the Chevy 2500HD CCLB Duramax, and the max trailer weight is listed as 13,400. Go to Furd and look at the F250 superdud with the powerchoke, and it has a max trailer weight of 15,600 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/think.gif. That's 2,200# more than the GM, for the same truck type (Both SRW, 3/4 ton, 4x4, diesel, CC, 8' bed, etc). How do they get that additional 2,200?

Towing weight ratings is based on a number of factors:

Tires
Axles
Brakes
Trans
Gears
Weight of truck

Seems the GM has at least as good of engineering as Ford, so it's a question of judgement. To be realistic, towing a trailer that weighs over twice the weight of the tow vehicle might be pushing the envelope for all conditions and all drivers. With a properly equipped and fully functional GM 3/4t truck, you'd probably be safe towing 25,000lb on level terrain in good weather. However you must rate it at what can be expected in normal use in various conditions.

Consider this. As you increase the weight of a 3/4t GM truck, they reduce the tow rating proportionally. This would indicate that braking is the limitation. Perhaps Ford has more faith in their brakes. From my experience, there isn't a lot of difference.

Tow Boss Package, 4.30 gears, built in brake controller, 6.0L, auto trans.

well, the 15,400 (I goofed, was looking in the wrong colum) was with a truck basically identical to mine... CC, LWB, 4x4, 3.73's, diesel, auto, etc... If you go to 4.30's with a F350, it's 18,300 or 18,100... That's a lot of weight...

The only thing I don't get regarding braking, is that the trailer has brakes, mine has three 5200# axles, and the brakes on them are rated for the trailers 15k GVW, so why are the brakes on the truck such a limitation? I can see that being the case if the trailer didn't have brakes, but when it does?

When I was returning to NY with the trailer the day after I picked it up, I had to make a quick stop with it... The trailer was empty, but it still weighed 6700# (supposedly) plus the truck. Between the truck, trailer, trailer brakes, and the prodigy controller, the truck and trailer did't take much more distance to stop than normal, if any more.

I just looked up my rating. It's 14,900. But I'm a 3500 srw. The only differences between my truck and yours is another leaf in the rear, and bigger tires/rims.

If your brake controller goes out, you still need to stop that trailer on a downgrade once. If you do not have enough brakes, you're in for a world of hurt. Ever see those Runaway Truck paths? Are you ready to hit one at 90?

I had the brake controller go out on a Ford E350 with a 8000 lb trailer on a steep downgrade. I stopped no problem. However, I found I cracked a rotor after the brake smoke cleared. Never underestimate the power of gravity times weight.

If your brake controller goes out, you still need to stop that trailer on a downgrade once. If you do not have enough brakes, you're in for a world of hurt. Ever see those Runaway Truck paths? Are you ready to hit one at 90?
Good Point... Didn't think of that one... Although the grade braking would help a bit, I imagine...

Would it be possible to add a leaf to each side, and put LT265/75R16/E's on the aluminum rims I have, to give the truck the same capacity (I think) as the 3500SRW, and a 6800# rear axle weight?

Why does Ford advertise they are the best selling truck forever when Chevy & GMC are built on the same assembly line and combined outsell them? If your belief is only in commercials and not reading the specs, they got you right where they want you. I had a guy tell me that his 04 F-350 SRW would pull the 19,200lbs because he saw it on TV. I tried not to act superior and laugh at him, it was hard not to. Furthermore, at this load, the truck would have to weigh less than 6800 lbs to fall under 26K GVWR or be subjected to DOT standards. So how do they get the extra 2200lbs? Tow Command? Willing to take more risk? I'm not. If I needed to tow that much, I'd rather have a 45/5500 with 19.5 or 22" rims with higher capacity tires and bigger brakes. We all know the motor/trans will pull it, but will the brakes and tires survive a panic stop or turn?

I'm not sure why GM rates the 3500 SRW higher for towing than the 2500HD. The brakes are the same, and the tires are smaller dia, which makes the brakes more effective.

Personally, I would just use common sense and check your truck at every refueling stop. Check tires/pressure, look at the rotors, fluids, trailer connection, etc.

If I had to tow a 20,000lb trailer tomorrow with my truck, I'd do it, but I would be more careful than normal.

Why does Ford advertise they are the best selling truck forever when Chevy & GMC are built on the same assembly line and combined outsell them? If your belief is only in commercials and not reading the specs, they got you right where they want you. I had a guy tell me that his 04 F-350 SRW would pull the 19,200lbs because he saw it on TV. I tried not to act superior and laugh at him, it was hard not to. Furthermore, at this load, the truck would have to weigh less than 6800 lbs to fall under 26K GVWR or be subjected to DOT standards.


It's like Liar's Poker. How much liability do they want to accept? Their lawyers tell them to list it as not tow rated, and their marketing department wants them to list at 80,000lbs. Do the engineers actually make the final decision? No. Or you wouldn't see the tow and weight ratings you do on import trucks.

If I had to tow a 20,000lb trailer tomorrow with my truck, I'd do it, but I would be more careful than normal. I'm with you McRat, I've overloaded mine at the gravel pit and am sure most of us have at one time or another. 30,000+ for less than five miles very carefully planned.

It is interesting that if you had a 2500HD standard cab LB 2wd, you would be 15,900lb rated.

I get the 2500HD CC LB 4x4 DA at 13,800.

Do you REALLY believe the truck that is 1000lb lighter at the most with the same sized brakes and tires can tow 2100lb more?

I'm not sure why all the agony over what Ford claims their trucks will tow or how many they sell. I bought my GMC because it fits MY idea of what a truck should be to a "T". I don't care if I was the ONLY one who bought a GMC - I love my truck and I don't need anyone stroking me telling me I bought the right truck.

Why does Ford advertise they are the best selling truck forever when Chevy & GMC are built on the same assembly line and combined outsell them?Ford outsold Chevrolet and GMC combined for the year of 2004. I think they consider all F-series (450, 550, ect) as a sale. Plus, you know they count the ones they have to buy back as a sale, then as a bonus, they sell another one to the guy who just had his truck bought back. I hope the GMT 900 is so cool it will blow Ford out of the water...

Thats right, the Ford F 450,550, etc... are basically a beefed up SuperDuty frame and similar drivetrains so they count those numbers in with the 150-350 numbers. Whereas anything bigger than the 3500 for GM is a completely different truck and thus counted seperately.

Also, don't the Fords run with larger diameter tires than the equivalent 2500 & 3500 GM products. It seems to me that this would LOWER their tow rating, even if equipped with the 4.30 axle.

DEWFPO

it is all in how they play with the numbers to make then look good. there is no reason why the gm trucks can do all the same thing.

it is all in how they play with the numbers to make then look good. there is no reason why the gm trucks can do all the same thing.

????? :confused: :confused:

Maybe "no reason why the GM trucks CAN'T do all the same thing".. I think they are very close.

Would it be possible to add a leaf to each side, and put LT265/75R16/E's on the aluminum rims I have, to give the truck the same capacity (I think) as the 3500SRW, and a 6800# rear axle weight?[/QUOTE]

I bought overloads from www.stengelbros.com (http://www.stengelbros.com). They're rated at 2600lbs. Also added 265 LRE, in theory the GVW is around 10760lbs because the frame and axle is the same as a 3500DRW with a GVW of 11400.

The only thing that would make me care about the ratings is warranty work that was denied becasue of being overloaded or something stupid like that.

The ratings are probably a good indication of what could be pulled up and down the highway at 70 mph. Maybe give or take a 1000lbs. On the farm, we have weights that would boggle your mind. At low speeds on roads that we know, it's easy to do.
We have a 95 GMC 3500HD that we load 9000lbs of grain on the bed and pull another 42,000lbs. There are those who worry about ratings, and there are the rest of us.

I hear ya Buckeye03, I help a good friend of mine on his farm all the time. Its nothing to be pulling 20000lbs of hay or grain or seed or whatever. The rating don't mean all that much. I put the overloads on for a little more stiffness for hauling fire wood. They work very well.

The 3500 SRW's have another leaf in the main pack and THEN one helper overload spring. Thus 2 more leaves then a 2500HD.

The 3500 DRW's have 2 helper leaves.

The 15,600# rating on the FURD is for a 5th wheel trailer system. This is with the Auto tranny and 3.73 gears. Conventional towing is 12,500# with the auto tranny and 3.73gears.

Irrespective of what you can really do with the trucks, a consideration to keep in the far recesses of your mind is the liability. Get in an accident with a truck that is loaded past it's rated capacity and watch the doo-doo fly.

I don't know for sure, never having made a real study of any of this, but I'm pretty sure I've read where the Ford's have a bit heavier rear end and front end a bit more heavy frame and suspension plus bigger wheels and tires of course. But don't take my word for it. All of that said, I like McRats statement about how much you really want to put behind you in relation to the weight of the truck.

I agree......pretty soon the tail starts wagging the dog.

Also guys;
When I bought my 01 I priced fords and they were $5000 cheeper than the equivilent GM product. So I think they sell cause their cheap. I know they are low tech, the suspension and frame configuration on them is like my old 73 chevy. I took one look under them and knew I didn't want to go back to that ride quality so I bought GM again and haven't looked back.

... Do differntly from GM? I was looking at specs for the Chevy 2500HD CCLB Duramax, and the max trailer weight is listed as 13,400. Go to Furd and look at the F250 superdud with the powerchoke, and it has a max trailer weight of 15,600 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/think.gif. That's 2,200# more than the GM, for the same truck type (Both SRW, 3/4 ton, 4x4, diesel, CC, 8' bed, etc). How do they get that additional 2,200?They rate themselves.
So all it really depends on is the amount of liability they are willing to assume (with their self-determined ratings).
Sure, most of these trucks can drag it, but can they stop it?
I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to be in front of a pick-up truck attempting to slow/stop 8 tons (plus itself) in an emergency.
Most states limit passenger vehicle registration beyond a GVRW of 18,000lbs (that's combined) for good reason.
Apparently Ford is more interested in claiming #1 in towing capacity than it is in consumer (or public) safety.
Anything to be top dog...

I have seen many people talk about the '"tail wagging the dog" when it comes to towing, but in professional trucking how often does the load outweigh the tractor pulling it?

I'm no expert but isn't this the case most of the time? How much does a sleeper Kenworth tractor weigh? 20K? I really don't know.....

I know growing up on a farm that pulling a load with an ag tractor requires some thought......you can't just hook on to a load and go without realizing that your power head is out classed by the load.

Yes, we're talking about being on the road with other idiots that won't consider what a load we are hauling but ..........hey I'm a safety professional .......it just seems that towing a load that exceeds the weight on the power unit is common and is done safely thousands of times a day.

In my world if it is done by a compentent drives it is an acceptable risk.