Stark's Component Ledger - an automotive industry insider newsletter with subscription price of $700 per year - reported in their Nov 17 edition that Ford is madder than an ole wet hen at International because of the very bad launch of the 6.0L engine. So mad, in fact, that they plan to not renew the contract with International when it expires several years from now.

Instead, they plan to go to Cummins as the diesel engine component provider for future Ford products.

Not the current Cummins products, but future Cummins engines that will be a 4.5L V6 and a 6.0L V8.

great, so--- does that mean that chevy will be getting the infamous navistar????? patience my pretty, patience!!! hahha just kiddin chio. hddm3

Has Cummins made a V configured diesel?

903 in a big truck was a V8 only one I know of. Havent herd of them in a few years, think they stopped production.


Geno

I drove (for a short time, many years ago, in 1979) a Dodge cab-over that had a 903 cummins. It was an old truck then, but as I recall, it had a lot of power and it sure made quite a racket.








Kevin

yep, some racket but not that bad. We had one in the Low-Boy. That thing pulled like freight train! Poor Ol'e truck, Trans Star, got a bad short while dead-heading down the innerstate.....burned to the ground. If I remeber correctly, the motor was rebuilt @ 1,000,000 miles and the short happened around 1,230,000 miles.


...... IMO, they like fuel. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif





Burner------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Doesn't Ford own Cummin's?

They put V8 cummins in Massey tractors, my inlaws have one that they keep around. It must do something right because they have a couple of newer New Hollands with M11 cummins and they still use it.

From the Cummins website FAQ..."Does Ford own Cummins?"...Answer,"No, Ford does not own any part of Cummins Inc."I can't get the hyper-link to work or I would take you right to the website.This is an old rumor started by Ford salesmen..."Ford owns Cummins but it is inferior to the power-stroke that's why they don't use it"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif...DougEdited by: dougf

So they will use a completely different motor when they come out.

Ford has been using Cummins engines for years....you can get one now if you go with a bigger truck. Check out the Ford commercial truck website.........

Cummins makes a great engine, all of them. I hope that the company thrives. I was concerned about the the new compliance hurting them but it's gonna hurt all of them. The new teir II compliance raised the price of heavy equipment about 5 grand.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

Ford bought into cummins some years ago to get the turbo technology. They wanted a long lasting turbo. They got it, and then sold the cummins shares. Thats where the rumor came from. This was back in like 92-93ish. Correct RedIntrepid9. The 7.3 was a good motor (it had more potential). To bad it's gone way side. The cummins is truly a mile marker motor. Ford will only benefit by using them. Super Diesel

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Ford revives V6 diesel plan for light-duty pickups, SUVs

By RICHARD TRUETT AND AMY WILSON
Automotive News

<st1:City><st1:place>DETROIT</st1:place></st1:City> - Ford Motor Co.'s on-again, off-again plan to install a V6 diesel engine in its light-duty pickups and SUVs is on again.

At a recent meeting in Las Vegas, Ford officials told dealers to expect a V6 diesel engine in the F-150 pickup and Expedition SUV sometime after 2007. That's when low-sulfur diesel fuel becomes available nationwide, thereby helping diesels meet stricter emissions standards.

A Ford source says the introduction of a V6 diesel engine in the lineup in 2008 or later is "directionally" correct.

Ford COO Jim Padilla would not confirm the company's V6 diesel plans in an interview last week. But he did say that diesels make the most sense for big SUVs and full-sized pickups.

"Where can you do it, and where can the customer perceive some potential payback?" Padilla said. "I think that is with the bigger vehicles."

Ford was working on plans two years ago to install a diesel V6 in the F-150 but abruptly canceled the project because the engine might not have met emissions standards. The engine was to have been supplied by International Truck and Engine Corp., which makes the Power Stroke diesel V8 for Ford's heavy-duty pickups.

One source with knowledge of Ford's diesel plans says the V6 also is slated for the Lincoln Navigator SUV. The engine will be built by Cummins Inc., the source says.

But the Ford source says the supplier of the new engine "is not a done deal."

Cummins supplies the inline six-cylinder diesel engine that powers the Dodge Ram pickup. But Cummins' contract with DaimlerChrysler does not preclude the company from selling a different diesel engine to another automaker.

"Cummins has been out there aggressively trying to market their V-engine architecture," says Ed McLaughlin, an analyst who tracks diesel engines for the Automotive Technology Research Group, a consulting firm in <st1:place><st1:City>Thousand Oaks</st1:City>, <st1:State>Calif.</st1:State></st1:place>

Cummins spokesman Mark Land said his company is working on a V6 diesel engine for light-duty trucks. He declined to identify any automakers that might buy it.

Another Ford source says the company delayed the introduction of a smaller diesel in part because it did not want to cannibalize sales of the heavy-duty F series. Ford's profits on those diesel-powered trucks are thought to be as much as $10,000 per vehicle.

But Nissan and <st1:City><st1:place>Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> are expected to offer diesels in the Titan and Tundra light-duty pickups by the end of

There are already two threads on Ford's V6 diesel news. Unfortunately, few seem interested in anything other than GM news at this site.

I wish they woud throw away the V-6 idea. A inline 6 will out pull a V any day of the week. I also wish somebody would start putting cat motors in pickups. There was a rumor a few years ago that ford was going to start putting cat motors in their trucks. I can't find any creditable information on it. Sure wish they would. I had a peterbuilt with a 475 cat and I had it running good. I could out run any 550 cat on the road. I really would love to have a cat motor in a pickup. That would be fun. You could pull anything. It may give cummings a run for their money if they would do it.

I wish they woud throw away the V-6 idea. A inline 6 will out pull a V any day of the week. .


Except for days that end in "Y", you can design pretty much any powerband into any motor configuration. Show me a inline 6 truck that can outpull a friggin train. (in case you didn't know they are pretty much exclusively "V" engines. The whole inline vs. v-debate is based on ignorance, and is also getting a bit old.

Wickedsprint, Did you see where CAT had built an I-16 for the trains about 5 years ago? They had said something about "too much power" for the exsisting tack &amp; wheels set-up. They said the train wanted to spin the wheels excessively. In short they said that two engines were still better than one because of the surface area/track life.


Burner---------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Wickedsprint, Did you see where CAT had built an I-16 for the trains about 5 years ago? They had said something about "too much power" for the exsisting tack &amp; wheels set-up. They said the train wanted to spin the wheels excessively. In short they said that two engines were still better than one because of the surface area/track life.


Burner---------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





I thought that the diesel motors in trains were tonly power the generators which then providedthe electricity to the electric motors which drive the wheels? Was this I-16 directly tied to the wheels?

Hasselback,


You are correct, trains are driven by electric motors not combustion engines. However, they were using cat motors as a direct drive application. If it still there, I'll try to find the the artical and scratch it up on here. I've got maybe a 20% chance of finding that thing........ I'll check back in a week or so. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Burner-------------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

OK..then back to marine engines, which still pretty much exclusively use V engines. All a V engine is is two inlines sharing a crank, maybe I am just too stupid to realize that twice the cylinders on one crank makes less torque.

OK..then back to marine engines, which still pretty much exclusively use V engines.

Is that really true? Diesels?

I think that in Marine applications it's the size/kind of the boat that determines which type of Diesel they get. Seems like most of the high RPM engines, V8's, are in your lighter fishing boats. These V8's will sit in your plaining boats like a Bertrem, Hatteras, Viking or Egg Harbor. I'd say something in the 50 gross ton weight class that has a high top speed. When you switch over to the working class boats they seem to all have the I-6's and a different hull, non plaining.


From an outsiders point of view it would appear that the I-6 is set up for low RPM and high TQ where the V8's seem to be set up for a wider RPM range.


Where's Broker? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Burner------------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Changing his K&amp;N'shttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

You could go back and forth on this one forever... When GM came out with their I5/I6, I was at Ford and management was making us run circles trying to determine if Ford missed something major. They didn't, it came down to what packaged:


Let's assume there's negligible difference in intake and exhaust between an I6 and a V6. So, a V6 will have 5 main bearing journals, compared to 7 for an I6 =&gt; more drag on an I6. BUT, the I6 will have fewer cams (assuming OHC), so they have less drag. An I6 will be longer, but narrower =&gt; PACKAGE.


Nothing in a combustion process would differ between an I6 and V6. I can't see any argument which could possibly argue *significant* power differences between the two architectures...

Broker likes gas. He doesn't even drive a diesel vehicle. That is no joke.

You could go back and forth on this one forever... When GM came out with their I5/I6, I was at Ford and management was making us run circles trying to determine if Ford missed something major. They didn't, it came down to what packaged:


Let's assume there's negligible difference in intake and exhaust between an I6 and a V6. So, a V6 will have 5 main bearing journals, compared to 7 for an I6 =&gt; more drag on an I6. BUT, the I6 will have fewer cams (assuming OHC), so they have less drag. An I6 will be longer, but narrower =&gt; PACKAGE.


Nothing in a combustion process would differ between an I6 and V6. I can't see any argument which could possibly argue *significant* power differences between the two architectures...

I would say there is a big difference in talking I6 -vs- V8 when it comes to diesels. Packaging in a big rig is not an issue. I don't think GM's inline did a longer stroke because of the inline design. Cummins and other big D'd use a longer stroke in the inlines. They seem to like the lower rpms, giving them longer life and better fuel economy.

Or, you may like this....
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Ford May Sidestep Suppliers

Ward's Auto World, Jun 1, 2004 </TD>
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The heated competition between two diesel engine producers to win a contract to build a turbodiesel V-6 for Ford Motor Co. appears to have come to a close, as a source says Ford likely will build the engine itself.


Ford wants a light-duty diesel for its pickups and SUVs because new diesel engines are efficient, quiet, loaded with torque and largely void of smoky exhaust.


New direct-injection common-rail diesels afford a 30% fuel-economy improvement over comparable gasoline engines — providing the potential to significantly improve corporate average fuel economy for Ford's thirstiest vehicles.


Ford was deciding whether to source a V-6 turbodiesel from International Truck and Engine Corp., which already produces the Power Stroke V-8 diesel for Ford's heavy-duty pickups, or from Cummins Inc., a primary diesel competitor with International.


But a supplier familiar with Ford's diesel development says neither Cummins nor International will build Ford's light-duty diesel, and that Ford most likely will develop and produce the powertrain itself.


Officials at Cummins and International decline comment, saying Ford has not informed them of its decision.</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>Edited by: coolbeans