Any truth to the claim that red fuel will shut a dmax down if it is put into the tank? someone at work did it to a 2008 dmax this morning, half a tank too so you know its good and red. has anybody heard this or doen it? thanks lee

I've done it. It wont hurt it unless you do it for 40K+ miles.

Lets talk about this in Fluids...

And let me point out that there is a $10K fine for doing this if you are caught...

I ran it for awhile because it's a lot cheaper. I talked to a buddy who has been a tech in South Carolina for a few years now and he said not to do it for a long time. I don't know how long is a long time but he has replaced several fuel pumps because of it. I know it will wipe out a fuel pump in a power stroke pretty quick if it's not setup to that that fuel. So, I stopped running it. I did get better milage and not to metion it is a lot cheaper. Hint the 10K fine that goes with running it in street driven trucks because it's not taxed as on road fuel. It woun't do anything if you don't run a bunch of it. I filled my tank up a few times with it. I never had any problems while runnin it.

I ran it for awhile because it's a lot cheaper. I talked to a buddy who has been a tech in South Carolina for a few years now and he said not to do it for a long time. I don't know how long is a long time but he has replaced several fuel pumps because of it. I know it will wipe out a fuel pump in a power stroke pretty quick if it's not setup to that that fuel. So, I stopped running it. I did get better milage and not to metion it is a lot cheaper. Hint the 10K fine that goes with running it in street driven trucks because it's not taxed as on road fuel. It woun't do anything if you don't run a bunch of it. I filled my tank up a few times with it. I never had any problems while runnin it.

Your buddy is fullofshit. The ONLY difference in red LSD vs. green LSD is the dye. That's it.

Did some research to prove it. Both of these were copied and pasted from MSDS sheets from Exxon.


DIESEL #2, ON-ROAD (LOW SULFUR)
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical physical properties are given below. Consult Product Data Sheet
for specific details.

APPEARANCE: Liquid
COLOR: Clear (May Be Dyed)
ODOR: Hydrocarbon
ODOR THRESHOLD-ppm: NE
pH: NA
BOILING POINT C(F): > 149(300)
MELTING POINT C(F): NA
FLASH POINT C(F): > 55(131) (ASTM D-93)
FLAMMABILITY (solids): NE
AUTO FLAMMABILITY C(F): NE
EXPLOSIVE PROPERTIES: NA
OXIDIZING PROPERTIES: NA
VAPOR PRESSURE-mmHg 20 C: 0.5
VAPOR DENSITY: > 2.0
EVAPORATION RATE: NE
RELATIVE DENSITY, 15/4 C: 0.82-0.87
SOLUBILITY IN WATER: Negligible
PARTITION COEFFICIENT: > 3.5
VISCOSITY AT 40 C, cSt: > 1.0
VISCOSITY AT 100 C, cSt: NE
POUR POINT C(F): < -7(20)
FREEZING POINT C(F): NE
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUND: NE
DMSO EXTRACT, IP-346 (WT.%): NA
NA=NOT APPLICABLE NE=NOT ESTABLISHED D=DECOMPOSES

DIESEL #2, OFF-ROAD (LOW SULFUR)
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typical physical properties are given below. Consult Product Data Sheet
for specific details.

APPEARANCE: Liquid
COLOR: Red
ODOR: Hydrocarbon
ODOR THRESHOLD-ppm: NE
pH: NA
BOILING POINT C(F): > 149(300)
MELTING POINT C(F): NA
FLASH POINT C(F): > 55(131) (ASTM D-93)
FLAMMABILITY (solids): NE
AUTO FLAMMABILITY C(F): NE
EXPLOSIVE PROPERTIES: NA
OXIDIZING PROPERTIES: NA
VAPOR PRESSURE-mmHg 20 C: 0.5
VAPOR DENSITY: > 2.0
EVAPORATION RATE: NE
RELATIVE DENSITY, 15/4 C: 0.82-0.87
SOLUBILITY IN WATER: Negligible
PARTITION COEFFICIENT: > 3.5
VISCOSITY AT 40 C, cSt: > 1.0
VISCOSITY AT 100 C, cSt: NE
POUR POINT C(F): < -7(20)
FREEZING POINT C(F): NE
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUND: NE
DMSO EXTRACT, IP-346 (WT.%): NA
NA=NOT APPLICABLE NE=NOT ESTABLISHED D=DECOMPOSES



Now someone can tell you they are different and you can tell them to prove it.


On another note, it is arguable whether or not LSD rather than ULSD will hurt the new LMM's exhaust systems and emissions bullshit. It hasn't been long enough to tell if any ill effects will happen...most are scared of running it. If it does hurt the LMM, ANY LSD will hurt it, not just red.

Red fuel will run NO differently than any other regular (equivalent sulpher PPM) diesel. Around here, we're starting to see ULSD red fuel as well...


:)

I ran it for awhile because it's a lot cheaper. I talked to a buddy who has been a tech in South Carolina for a few years now and he said not to do it for a long time. I don't know how long is a long time but he has replaced several fuel pumps because of it. I know it will wipe out a fuel pump in a power stroke pretty quick if it's not setup to that that fuel. So, I stopped running it. I did get better milage and not to metion it is a lot cheaper. Hint the 10K fine that goes with running it in street driven trucks because it's not taxed as on road fuel. It woun't do anything if you don't run a bunch of it. I filled my tank up a few times with it. I never had any problems while runnin it.

Again, we have a problem here...not trying to pick at you by any means, just want to make sure these things are straight so people reading get good info! :)

The fuel is dyed, and will dye most everything in your system when you run it. The so called "superdye" will bleed into filter material as the fuel is pulled through and can dye the aluminum housings as well. After a tank of red fuel you'd need to run at least a full tank of regular green to pass a dip test. If they pull the filter (if they're really pricks), you're screwed.

On that note, it's also debatable on whether a pickup is going to get dipped in the first place. Never have I heard an actual "I got a $10,000 ticket for red fuel." We always get the "this guy got one" or "my buddy got dipped in his semi..." but nobody, in the many thousands of people posting here can say "I GOT ONE." And if you did, I am sorry and I'll shut up. :D

Hope I could shed some light here. If nothing else, I kept myself busy for a few minutes typing! :D :D

Red dyed fuel contains more sulfer then regular fuel these days. its true if you run it too long it will ruin your injection pump. i run red dyed every 4 - 5 tanks it also helps keep your injectors clean. but if you dont want to get poped for 1000.00 for every gallon your tank holds not just ten thousand bucks, then just buy a couple or quarts of atf. red dye started as a cleaner for injectors and combustion chambers but moved to off road fuel

Red dyed fuel contains more sulfer then regular fuel these days. its true if you run it too long it will ruin your injection pump. i run red dyed every 4 - 5 tanks it also helps keep your injectors clean. but if you dont want to get poped for 1000.00 for every gallon your tank holds not just ten thousand bucks, then just buy a couple or quarts of atf. red dye started as a cleaner for injectors and combustion chambers but moved to off road fuel

This statement is true and false. There are different types of offroad diesel sold, high-sulpher (HSD), low-sulpher (LSD), and ultra low sulpher(ULSD). They are all the same as the respective regular diesel except the dye. It is VERY hard to find HSD ANYWHERE anymore. LSD is the most common offroad fuel and it has no more than 500PPM sulpher content...which is the same as regular LSD diesel.

some card lock places still sell (hsd) red dye and (usld) in #2 fuel
but you are right about the different types

I have to agree with Tomrex 100%. The only difference in the fuel is the red dye. It will not harm your fuel pumps, or any part in your fuel system. As a matter of fact, Any Duramax other than LMM's should run much better on the red fuel due to the fuel being LSD. The sulpher has great lubricating ability! However, I would not want to get caught with it.

Saw a sign at a weigh station this past weekend - Fuel check in progress...

For big rigs, or pickup trucks? For the highway safety officers to check every pickup truck, would be nearly impossible, and cause more of a traffic hazard than it was worth. Also it is easier to dip a saddle tank in a big rig, than it would be to dip our Duramax tanks.

Around here as of last fall our off road red diesel was not lsd yet.

At a few farm auctions near here the cops pulled in and started pulling samples from the diesel pickups parked. Never heard what the guys that got caught running the red off road got pinched for.

Troopers can use long straws. They just put it down the filler neck, put their finger over the top and pull it back out. Very easy. I know there are random checks around here.

Is there any documented evidence or personal experience of anyone here that pickup trucks are pulled to the side of the road and dipped? Or is it the case that the only trucks that are dipped are the ones that pull in to get diesel? That makes little sense. They are about to get legal diesel. I'm just trying to grapple with the logistics of pulling pickup trucks over to dip them when the percentage of pickups that are diesels is small, yet the percentage of pickups to the general vehicle population is substantial.

i disagree, my employee filled my tank up with off road, before the on road diesel fuel was changed to lsd and my truck has not been the same since, it had some water in it that didn't help either. three injectors later cant get over 12 mpg, dealer cant find anything wrong with the truck and still has no power. I am in third month going threw with lemon law crap

Is there any documented evidence or personal experience of anyone here that pickup trucks are pulled to the side of the road and dipped? Or is it the case that the only trucks that are dipped are the ones that pull in to get diesel? That makes little sense. They are about to get legal diesel. I'm just trying to grapple with the logistics of pulling pickup trucks over to dip them when the percentage of pickups that are diesels is small, yet the percentage of pickups to the general vehicle population is substantial.


I know for a fact certain states will pull diesel pick ups over and take fuel samples. Fines can be pretty high. No, I have never run dyed fuel or been checked but I know at any given time I could be checked. The large exhaust pipe, along with the diesel badges on the door are usually what they look for. Don't feel like because you are ordinary Joe on the road that they will not check you. Some states may be stricter than others on dyed fuel.

My truck was dipped in Gila Bend, AZ when I pulled over to grab some lunch while towing my fifthwheel camper. Yep, it does happen. They had portable weight scales in one lane for commercial trucks and officers in another lane dipping tank of ALL the diesel trucks..big trucks and little trucks. I had a load of Mexican diesel which is black in color...no problemo tho...just dipped and waved on.

My truck was dipped in Gila Bend, AZ when I pulled over to grab some lunch while towing my fifthwheel camper. Yep, it does happen. They had portable weight scales in one lane for commercial trucks and officers in another lane dipping tank of ALL the diesel trucks..big trucks and little trucks. I had a load of Mexican diesel which is black in color...no problemo tho...just dipped and waved on.

With all due respect, look at your truck. Thats why they pulled it over. Its huge, and looks like a huge truck. I doubt they would pull over pickups.

i disagree, my employee filled my tank up with off road, before the on road diesel fuel was changed to lsd and my truck has not been the same since, it had some water in it that didn't help either. three injectors later cant get over 12 mpg, dealer cant find anything wrong with the truck and still has no power. I am in third month going threw with lemon law crap

You may have had a problem with Red Off Road fuel, but it was not the dye that caused your issues, it was water or crap in the fuel. If you had received a good batch of red fuel, you would have been OK. Welcome to the Forum! ;)

You may have had a problem with Red Off Road fuel, but it was not the dye that caused your issues, it was water or crap in the fuel. If you had received a good batch of red fuel, you would have been OK. Welcome to the Forum! ;)

X2...read the MSDS info I posted up, they are IDENTICAL except the dye. It's like saying water with food coloring will do something different than clear water.

On another note, welcome to the forum!

My truck was dipped in Gila Bend, AZ when I pulled over to grab some lunch while towing my fifthwheel camper. Yep, it does happen. They had portable weight scales in one lane for commercial trucks and officers in another lane dipping tank of ALL the diesel trucks..big trucks and little trucks. I had a load of Mexican diesel which is black in color...no problemo tho...just dipped and waved on.

yea.. am i in denial that my truck could get dipped, or is you truck more likely to get checked? ("big rig like" truck vs pick up)

Again, we have a problem here...not trying to pick at you by any means, just want to make sure these things are straight so people reading get good info! :)

The fuel is dyed, and will dye most everything in your system when you run it. The so called "superdye" will bleed into filter material as the fuel is pulled through and can dye the aluminum housings as well. After a tank of red fuel you'd need to run at least a full tank of regular green to pass a dip test. If they pull the filter (if they're really pricks), you're screwed.

On that note, it's also debatable on whether a pickup is going to get dipped in the first place. Never have I heard an actual "I got a $10,000 ticket for red fuel." We always get the "this guy got one" or "my buddy got dipped in his semi..." but nobody, in the many thousands of people posting here can say "I GOT ONE." And if you did, I am sorry and I'll shut up. :D

Hope I could shed some light here. If nothing else, I kept myself busy for a few minutes typing! :D :D
Two things, first if you are buying dyed fuel you han better hope somone didnt get a cheaper price on HSD (high sulfur diesel) and drop it in the off road storage tank, point two I drove over the road for twenty five years so I have seen them set up on the side of the road and dip both, road tractors and pickup trucks in the same stop, they do that on a regular basis in the St Louis area.

Some questions and points about your post...

Point One: According to law, the fuel distributors HAVE to label the pump and/or receipt at time of fillup (whether it's on your land, in a container, or at a fueling station) that states what sulfur content the fuel is. Even if you did manage to get a HSD tankful, unless you're a LMM (07.5-up) you're fine. A higher sulfur content doesn't hurt the innards of the pump. It's even arguable that a higher sulfur content fuel will help you.

Point two: In those 25 years you've been driving over the road, have you ever been pulled over and dipped in a pickup? I've seen stings on road tractors, but never on pickups. I find it hard to believe they'd be pulling over a bunch of diesel pickups on I-70 for red fuel checks.

they dont nesseserly have to pull you into a scale or road side checkpoint. Dot has a van that runs around with a sniffer in the grill, Its just like the van that sits on a freeway on ramp and checks for smog but mobile. The van sences the difference between regular and red dyed fuel takes your plate number down and calls it in to local hiway patrol and pulls you over and checks your tank. I got nailed with this in my 97 dodge but no fine. there is a difference in the fuels they tell you there isn't but there is its a chemical in red dye that they can test for.

There is NO such van, or anything else, that can sniff the difference in fuels in a car or truck driving by. It's not possible. Prove it with a link to a good source. You may have gotten nabbed by a DOT van who saw you belching smoke out the back of your 97 Dodge but they CANNOT sniff exhaust as people drive by on the road. You were grossly misinformed, I am sorry to tell you.

The only thing that changes with dyed fuel is the dye packet that is normally added at the station itself.

You can call the california hiway patrol to confirm this my 97 was all stock so no smoke they had them out here when the red dye law came into effect they dont have them anymore but there is a van sitting at the chp station out in riverside. The only reason i know that is cause i towed it there when i get back up there i'll get pic and send them too you

Listen, we can go on about this all day long...I don't care about any CHP van. All I know is that there is NO POSSIBLE way that they can tell if you're running offroad or regular fuel without looking at it. There is no SNIFFER in the world that will detect it with the "nose" up the pipe, let alone 20 feet from a moving car. I call bullshit on CHP if that's the case.

You had better believe pickups are just as prone to getting dipped as anything else on the road in NY.The DO Trouble around me lately is out in full force,they are bastards, but they are not stupid by any means.They know all too well there are Cummins,PSTROKES,and Dmax's in pickups.Any tax cheat that wants to run red,come on over to NY,either run I87,84 or Rt.9 in the Fishkill or Newburgh area.It would only be a matter of time before you get pinched.

I have a friend who is in the excavating business and has a tank in the bed of his pickup to fuel his equipment. He gets stopped and checked from time to time. The DOT just looks for those guys with the fuel tanks in their truck beds knowing a lot of them just fuel their pickups from it.

they dont nesseserly have to pull you into a scale or road side checkpoint. Dot has a van that runs around with a sniffer in the grill, Its just like the van that sits on a freeway on ramp and checks for smog but mobile. The van sences the difference between regular and red dyed fuel takes your plate number down and calls it in to local hiway patrol and pulls you over and checks your tank. I got nailed with this in my 97 dodge but no fine. there is a difference in the fuels they tell you there isn't but there is its a chemical in red dye that they can test for.

When they make diesel fuel at the manufacturing plants or facilities that make the fuel, they only develop one diesel fuel. The only reason they tax the fuel is to raise money to maintain the roads that we drive on. When people in heavy equipment work and dig off the road, they should not have to pay taxes to maintain the roads. Thus you get "On road" fuel and "Off road" fuel. The only difference in off road fuel is the red dye that DOT places into the tanks so they can tell when they dip the tank. If they could tell the difference without dipping, then they would not dip, and would just smell the exhaust. I would have to disagree, that the different fuels, give off different smells that DOT can detect with a van. I have seen the vans on the side of the highways before, but they are just getting a general smog/pollution type of study. I think it is more for inspections than anything.
As far as seeing pickup trucks getting pulled over and dipped, I have not seen that here in Rhode Island where I am from. The highway troopers can't just single trucks out and discriminate legally. The only exception is for over the road 18 wheel rigs. They fall into a different category.

For big rigs, or pickup trucks? For the highway safety officers to check every pickup truck, would be nearly impossible, and cause more of a traffic hazard than it was worth. Also it is easier to dip a saddle tank in a big rig, than it would be to dip our Duramax tanks.

Big Rigs. Just was interesting to see it though.

Troopers can use long straws. They just put it down the filler neck, put their finger over the top and pull it back out. Very easy. I know there are random checks around here.

Since we're in farmland around here as well, every farmer has a diesel pickup or two. I'm sure they all go to the gas station to fill up...

As far as seeing pickup trucks getting pulled over and dipped, I have not seen that here in Rhode Island where I am from. The highway troopers can't just single trucks out and discriminate legally.

Who says they have to be non-discriminatory? Sure they can.


Anytime they pull someone over, they've singled out.
Anytime a weigh station gets closed, and trucks pass, they've discriminated
If they pull an out of state vehicle while an in state vehicle doing the same thing goes by, they've discriminated.That's just the nature of it. Not right, not wrong, just is.;)

I was talking to a friend in the parking lot at a NAPA parts store and the dude from the Dept of Revenue Fuel Inspection pulled in the parking lot and asked to dip my buddies tank. I didn't stick around but he told me later that it was his third time he's been checked in the last two years. I was stopped a short time later on the highway and checked.

I have hauled fuel for the past 20 years (part time job) and can confirm that the diesel fuel at the terminal here is stored in one tank as ULSD (green). If I load the truck with DYED, the pump starts out by pumping the first 200 gallons green then the system injects the dye into the line that is loading the truck. This is computer controlled to inject the right amount of dye. Just before that compartment is full, the dye injector stops and the last 200 gallons flows green to flush the loading arm. The loading arm has a clear lexan pipe attached at the loading head and you can see the green fuel turn red when the injectors kick in. We use the same loading arm for Clear Diesel and Dyed Diesel.
It is the IDENTICAL fuel except for the small amount of dye (only when loading) that is injected for identification purposes only. The dye will not harm our engines, however it will discolor any o rings and the fuel filter in the system.
The fuel Inspectors up here check all trucks running a diesel engine and pay particular attention to the bush cutters hauling D-Tanks in the bed of their pick ups.

The sulphur content in diesel fuels are as follows:
Regular Sulphur Diesel 500ppm to 5000ppm
Low Sulphur Diesel 15ppm to 500 ppm
Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel < 15ppm

Is there any documented evidence or personal experience of anyone here that pickup trucks are pulled to the side of the road and dipped? Or is it the case that the only trucks that are dipped are the ones that pull in to get diesel? That makes little sense. They are about to get legal diesel. I'm just trying to grapple with the logistics of pulling pickup trucks over to dip them when the percentage of pickups that are diesels is small, yet the percentage of pickups to the general vehicle population is substantial.
__________________
* 2007 Classic LBZ LT3 Xcab 8' Bed, Victory Red, Line-X, Big Country nerf, Putco Locker rails, DU-HA storage, Dominator Hitch Step, Zaino, B99.9: Biodiesel powered: No war required




JUST A REPLY TO YOUR MESSAGE HERE IN NORTHEAST PA THEY TARGET PICKUPS WITH FUEL TANKS IN THE BACK OF THEIR TRUCK I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE GET NAILED FOR OFF ROAD

In Oklahoma they will target stockyards,and or grain elevators, and dip both semi's and pickups

For what it's worth, the police must have probable cause to pull over a pickup truck. They cannot do it just to check for dyed fuel. Commercial Motor Vehicles (over 10K lbs used commercially) do not enjoy this protection. They can be stopped for no other reason than for an inspection. I do it every day.

the truckll run but dot might shut you down

For what it's worth, the police must have probable cause to pull over a pickup truck. They cannot do it just to check for dyed fuel. Commercial Motor Vehicles (over 10K lbs used commercially) do not enjoy this protection. They can be stopped for no other reason than for an inspection. I do it every day.

You stop people, or you get stopped daily?? :D

In Oklahoma they will target stockyards,and or grain elevators, and dip both semi's and pickups

Same in Kansas. They will dip pickups at the livestock sales, grain elevators, and farm sales. They will also stop trucks with bulk tanks in the back and dip the pickup.

I have never heard of anyone get dipped in a metropoletan area. I think most people won't pump died fuel at a station, but I have known a few who would fill from the same bulk tank at home that has their tractor fuel.

Custom cutters will get dipped a lot, too.

Bulk tank = reasonable suspension. Many people that I know who have bulk tanks in their trucks have been dipped. Some have even had the DOT crawl under their Pickups to see if they are running a fuel line out of the bottom of the bulk tank.

Here in MN they do stop diesel pickups to dip tanks. I've been stopped many times in the last few years. MN Dept of revenue conducts the checks at random, anywhere's anytime but most often on well traveled highways. A friend of mine got caught with dyed fuel in his 6.5 GMC last summer. He got a $2000 fine from the IRS and a $2000 fine from MN Dept, of Revenue. He was also flagged for tax audits for both federal and state for the last five years because of the tax evasion issue. It was a costlly and pain in the ass time for saving a few bucks on fuel.

If we didn't pay so much for fuel to begin with, they wouldn't have to dip tanks.............

Been a while since I checked this thread...Granted, my truck is not a typical pickup size, and I did get dipped. But, they were dipping ALL the pickups with diesel motors in the left lane..3/4 and 1 tons. They were waving the cars and gas trucks through. The big trucks were in the right lane getting weighed.

Looked like a fish aquarium hose, pushed it in the tank, thumbed the top of the hose, and withdrew a sample.

I have ran several 100,000 miles from coast to coast and have never been dipped in either of my trucks until this time in Gila Bend.

The B.S. is deep in this thred. Red fuel will not hurt your pump, injectors, or anything else. Except it may plug a dpf. I highly doubt you can get anything but ulsd in california. I have had the C.A.D.O.T. At my jobsites and dip everything but my pick ups, not even my F-550's. I don't doubt that they may, in more rural states, or areas. And there is no sniffer that can detect red fuel exhaust. Red fuel hasn't turned any of my o-rings red either, they are still yellow. You can believe or not, but I do not. I wish I could get some sulpher in my fuel.

The B.S. is deep in this thred. Red fuel will not hurt your pump, injectors, or anything else. Except it may plug a dpf. I highly doubt you can get anything but ulsd in california. I have had the C.A.D.O.T. At my jobsites and dip everything but my pick ups, not even my F-550's. I don't doubt that they may, in more rural states, or areas. And there is no sniffer that can detect red fuel exhaust. Red fuel hasn't turned any of my o-rings red either, they are still yellow. You can believe or not, but I do not. I wish I could get some sulpher in my fuel.

Very well put. Agreed 100%

For what it's worth, the police must have probable cause to pull over a pickup truck. They cannot do it just to check for dyed fuel. Commercial Motor Vehicles (over 10K lbs used commercially) do not enjoy this protection. They can be stopped for no other reason than for an inspection. I do it every day.

I agree 100% with you rcpd34! ;) Could not have said it better myself!

Who says they have to be non-discriminatory? Sure they can. (No they can't!)


Anytime they pull someone over, they've singled out. (For what they have done)
Anytime a weigh station gets closed, and trucks pass, they've discriminated
If they pull an out of state vehicle while an in state vehicle doing the same thing goes by, they've discriminated.That's just the nature of it. Not right, not wrong, just is.;)

I would have to respectfully disagree with a few things in the post!

The B.S. is deep in this thred. Red fuel will not hurt your pump, injectors, or anything else. Except it may plug a dpf. I highly doubt you can get anything but ulsd in california. I have had the C.A.D.O.T. At my jobsites and dip everything but my pick ups, not even my F-550's. I don't doubt that they may, in more rural states, or areas. And there is no sniffer that can detect red fuel exhaust. Red fuel hasn't turned any of my o-rings red either, they are still yellow. You can believe or not, but I do not. I wish I could get some sulpher in my fuel.

X3 Excellent observations! ;)

There something many of you are missing. There is Red off-road DIESEL then there is Red off road HEATING OIL....

I do not know the diffrence! I do know they both smell very diffrent! Does anyone.

I have used heating oil in my 2003 duramax for over a year off road of course. I add amsoil concerate and amsoil centane boost. ( on a side not AMSOIL concetrate is bright red....) Never had a problem. Still on the same fuel filter.

Sulfer is a injector pumps best friend its a lube! So tell me why i'm going to burn up a injector pump?

Bottem line if you driving a commersial truck of any kind you might get sticked and you should expect it!

Your driving a passager plate truck with nothing in tow I would be shocked if someone stopped you....

My advice to everyone stop talking about this on the fourm the more people you educate on the issue the more law enforment will be checking for people doing this!

I know here in Montana if they pull you over for lets say speeding they will dip your tank.
A farmer friend of my mine ran out of fuel and dumped 5 gallons of red fuel in to get back home. He called MHP to say he had done it and they came out and dipped his tank after he had ran 3 full tanks of clear through it. It was still red and got lucky he did not get a ticket. Just a warning from the officer.

There something many of you are missing. There is Red off-road DIESEL then there is Red off road HEATING OIL....

I do not know the diffrence! I do know they both smell very diffrent! Does anyone.

I have used heating oil in my 2003 duramax for over a year off road of course. I add amsoil concerate and amsoil centane boost. ( on a side not AMSOIL concetrate is bright red....) Never had a problem. Still on the same fuel filter.

Sulfer is a injector pumps best friend its a lube! So tell me why i'm going to burn up a injector pump?

Bottem line if you driving a commersial truck of any kind you might get sticked and you should expect it!

Your driving a passager plate truck with nothing in tow I would be shocked if someone stopped you....

My advice to everyone stop talking about this on the fourm the more people you educate on the issue the more law enforment will be checking for people doing this!

So let me get this straight---you're in NY{same as me},using your truck off-road with red untaxed fuel. You now might forget this and I assume this truck is registered so you now drive on-road,so to speak, and you get dipped.Need I remind you you are in NY---home of the argueably most vicious DOT enforcement officers out there.Doesn't matter if you have pass. plates--you are subject to a dip.Just beware.

So let me get this straight---you're in NY{same as me},using your truck off-road with red untaxed fuel. You now might forget this and I assume this truck is registered so you now drive on-road,so to speak, and you get dipped.Need I remind you you are in NY---home of the argueably most vicious DOT enforcement officers out there.Doesn't matter if you have pass. plates--you are subject to a dip.Just beware.
About how much is the red un-taxed fuel?

So let me get this straight---you're in NY{same as me},using your truck off-road with red untaxed fuel. You now might forget this and I assume this truck is registered so you now drive on-road,so to speak, and you get dipped.Need I remind you you are in NY---home of the argueably most vicious DOT enforcement officers out there.Doesn't matter if you have pass. plates--you are subject to a dip.Just beware.

Thanks for the warning..... Don't worry my trucks going to stay in my corn fields! :p:

My dads new 08 has 9000 miles on it with nothing but red fuel through it. He hasnt had any problems. I filled my new truck up yesterday with it and it says ulsd off road on the pump,its red but I guess they have ulsd red fuel now too. I always ran red fuel in my other trucks with no problems. You always hear about "some guy" who got caught but Ive been doing it for over 10 years. I would hope that the Po Po has better things to do than bother some old feller carrying a load of hay,or firewood home. Now that I said all this Ill get caught on my way home. My brother is a truck driver and has never had his tanks dipped anywhere hes ever been. I guess its taking a gamble. save me about 15 bucks a tankfull.

Same in Kansas. They will dip pickups at the livestock sales, grain elevators, and farm sales. They will also stop trucks with bulk tanks in the back and dip the pickup.
Thats profiling, they can profile farmers and noone raises a finger but the minute they pull over a person of color in a caddy with hot plates, its the worst thing in the world:rolleyes:

But thing is I'm 21 I've logged well over 40,000 miles in a diesel, whether that be pickup or medium duty Internationals and I've never once been pulled over to have my tanked swabbed, which is probably a good thing...

Is fuel tax a %, or per gallon? I really don't know.

If they are a % thats a huge revenue increase with fuel prices so high. Guess we gonna be seeing some road improvements soon.

Not sure though, if tax is X-cents per gallon, thats different.

I seem to remember being told by more than one person.. and seeing it online .. somewhere down the Texas way (??? ) they are able to identify what fuel the trucks are running by pointing a gun..( for lack of a better description..) at the tail pipe.. and they know instantly if your running off or on road fuel.. no need to dip the tanks..

around here red is $3.50 and green is $4.15, you get caught when someone at the station turns you in, you go to a livestock auction, rodeo or something of that nature.

The tax is per gallon.

I was a truck driver for many years and all of those years only once did I run into being tested,and that was at a scale after clearing the scale there were two men in white coveralls and they stopped me tested the tank,that's the only time but this might happen as the cost of fuel go's up and you really don't want to have them find it,you would be better off having a tank of POT,it would be cheeper I would say.
The Dye is just that and if one of you whiz kids out there can come up with a product to kill the color of the dye we will all buy it.

never heard of anyone pulling people over and dip testing in Indiana

:rolleyes:. Now I know why some guys de-badge their trucks!

[quote=mdjr;2538369]Is fuel tax a %, or per gallon? I really don't know.[\quote]

The tax is by gallon. Federal Excise tax is $0.244 per gallon (yeah, 24.4 cents!) Here is a form Bio folks use to pay that excise tax...

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f720.pdf

State taxes are also by the gallon. Missouri is $0.17/gallon. Others vary.

MODOT provides a good chart on their site showing all the states... It is used by those who have to do IFTA to pay appropriate taxes for the miles they drive... It is a bit of a PITA to read but.... Click the link and hunt down your state.

http://www.modot.org/mcs/IFTA/documents/IFTATaxRates4thqtr-2007_000.pdf


Theoretically, the pump price of Red fuel should be the pump price of on road fuel MINUS the 24.4 cent fed excise and the 17 cent (or whatever your state is) State tax.

In short, no way I would ever take a chance on running dyed fuel.

Yea the debadging thing sounds good. My new 08 is hard to tell unless you look at the rear and see that damn megaphone hanging out the back,right where the cop will be following you. Ive never heard about this gun thing they point at the exhaust,sounds interesting. Around here the local townships probably couldnt afford such a James Bond device. I would like to see one though. I would like someone to come up with some "dye-eater" though.

Ive never heard about this gun thing they point at the exhaust,sounds interesting. Around here the local townships probably couldnt afford such a James Bond device. I would like to see one though.

There is no such thing. That's why you haven't seen one...

Yea the debadging thing sounds good. My new 08 is hard to tell unless you look at the rear and see that damn megaphone hanging out the back,right where the cop will be following you. Ive never heard about this gun thing they point at the exhaust,sounds interesting. Around here the local townships probably couldnt afford such a James Bond device. I would like to see one though. I would like someone to come up with some "dye-eater" though.

run dye red LSD or possibly HSD is not really a good thing to do long term if you value your DPF

run dye red LSD or possibly HSD is not really a good thing to do long term if you value your DPF

ULSD is now available in red. It won't be long before that's the only way you can get it.

Oh by the way.. if you get caught with off road fuel.. red dyed.. its a $100 per gall of your full capacity.. I believe.. so figure $3,500 as an average ticket

and at some truck stops.. the IRS is there doing the testing. not just the police

i can only get ulsd red fuel here in indy. anyone know what the fine is in indy? i would never run strait red but every once in a while i have some extra and dont wanna get into too much trouble

I ran red for the fou...I mean five years I was at school. No probelms. :) No fine if you don't get caught. Indy's cops have other things to deal with - like 38th street. Enough said. Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it. :)

i can only get ulsd red fuel here in indy. anyone know what the fine is in indy? i would never run strait red but every once in a while i have some extra and dont wanna get into too much trouble

Doesn't matter,red,burgundy,ambrosia,slightly red,pink---the fine will still be the same if you get dipped.You don't get any ''credit'' for not being really,really red you know. Or then again,maybe you didn't know--but now you do so just be careful brother.

Just run the regular tax paid stuff like everyone else does and you never have to worry about getting dipped. Some of you guys are going to stroke out worrying about this stuff. Diesel dippers are going to be looking for dyed fuel in trucks, now more than ever since ULSD is so high. It don't matter how red it is, if it looks like off road fuel you can bet they will send the sample off to test it. Run it if you want but when you get caught and the huge fine, we don't want to hear the first whimper of you. Its kind of like getting out on the highway and driving 90 MPH and getting caught, no one forced you to do it. If you feel like your invincible then go for it, save you a few dollars. You take chances sooner or later it might catch up to you or not.

I ran red for the fou...I mean five years I was at school. No probelms. :) No fine if you don't get caught. Indy's cops have other things to deal with - like 38th street. Enough said. Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it. :)

thats what i figured lol i try to stay above 38th street whenever i can :eek:

Doesn't matter,red,burgundy,ambrosia,slightly red,pink---the fine will still be the same if you get dipped.You don't get any ''credit'' for not being really,really red you know. Or then again,maybe you didn't know--but now you do so just be careful brother.

You seem to know alot about this... My amsoil concrete lube and my amsoil 2 stoke oil in my diesel turn my fuel a bright pink... So does that mean i'm facing possible fines?

You seem to know alot about this... My amsoil concrete lube and my amsoil 2 stoke oil in my diesel turn my fuel a bright pink... So does that mean i'm facing possible fines?

yes i want to know as well

Where Can I Get This Red Fuel In Southern California???????

yes i want to know as well

kind of dumb that amsoil makes the stuff red to go in to diesel. I was talking to my amsoil rep about it and he said that they got several complains about it as well. But in his defence at the recomended 1 oz per gallon it really doesn't change the color very much... but the two stroke oil I put in really changes the color...

x2 on the 2 stroke. guess you could just dump in enough to make the color of the fuel black! i know it doesnt take that much to do.....

There was a pretty long thread on black diesel before too, 3 parts off-road fuel, 1 part filterd used motor oil, and you no longer have offending red fuel. I wouldnt do this in a common rail, but old farm machinery (to get rid of oil if you dont have a oil burner) and older diesels, 12V cummins, and IDI 6.5 chevys and 6.9 & 7.3 fords I probably would if I had the time.

There was a pretty long thread on black diesel before too, 3 parts off-road fuel, 1 part filterd used motor oil, and you no longer have offending red fuel. I wouldnt do this in a common rail, but old farm machinery (to get rid of oil if you dont have a oil burner) and older diesels, 12V cummins, and IDI 6.5 chevys and 6.9 & 7.3 fords I probably would if I had the time.

why would this be a bad idea in a commonrail diesel? what makes a 12v mechanical injection better suited for this? i'm still learning about diesels :D

why would this be a bad idea in a commonrail diesel? what makes a 12v mechanical injection better suited for this? i'm still learning about diesels :D

Common rails are more sensistive and have tighter tolerances than a common rail for the most part, lets just say if you didnt get everything filterd perfectly in your "black" diesel, it may be determental to the common rail system than to the older systems, and common rails inject at a much higher pressure, I'm sure you could do it, and may never see any problems I just myself wouldnt roll the dice on it.

Common rails are more sensistive and have tighter tolerances than a common rail for the most part, lets just say if you didnt get everything filterd perfectly in your "black" diesel, it may be determental to the common rail system than to the older systems, and common rails inject at a much higher pressure, I'm sure you could do it, and may never see any problems I just myself wouldnt roll the dice on it.

While I agree with you, to a certain extent, I call BS as well. The 12 valve cummins used a 30 micron filter to get rid of the shit in the fuel...nothing wrong for that motor at all. On the new common rails, we have highly packed 2 micron filters - no way anything beyond 2 microns gets past those filters. If 2 microns is GM's rating, I see no issues. It may plug up the filters faster, but it won't ever get to the rail...in theory.

While I agree with you, to a certain extent, I call BS as well. The 12 valve cummins used a 30 micron filter to get rid of the shit in the fuel...nothing wrong for that motor at all. On the new common rails, we have highly packed 2 micron filters - no way anything beyond 2 microns gets past those filters. If 2 microns is GM's rating, I see no issues. It may plug up the filters faster, but it won't ever get to the rail...in theory.

good point. i think that the main issues would be the properties on used motor oil when it is subjected to such high pressures. anyone know about this?

The IRS has been up here inspecting companies trucks for "off road fuel". From what I was told. The IRS asks you to open the door to your garage, They ask you to remove the fuel cap of each truck. They come in with a handful of big "syringes" And use a new one on each tank they test.
One company devoted a plow truck to sub contract for the town. Hence they ran untaxed red diesel. They are not fined for 10,000. They were told it was 1,000 for the first offense plus some calculation of the size of the fuel tank. And it takes a couple offenses to get to the 10,000 dollar mark
The other company was not given any fines.
The guy that delivers my heating oil says he gets sticked every time he gets stopped by the "diesel bears" aka DOT DMV cops. They especially look at heating oil delivery trucks.
Bill
In our 50 plus years of business, we have never been tested.
I do believe they have the ability to know your running dyed fuel from your exhaust pipe.
Next time I bring our Bus in for its Annual Inspection I am going to ask the DOT guy some questions.
Bill

I am glad I have a topper over my extra 50 gal fuel tank, just minding my own business as I travel the hiways and biways. I am legal because I haven't ran red fuel in my truck but it is tempting

Check out this link
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8hgfu9HH7QAUdtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0dHMyaXF kBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTAEY29sbwNhYzIEdnRpZANIMTAzXzEyM g--/SIG=12enrfr6c/EXP=1206964192/**http%3a//tax.idaho.gov/pdf/EBR00059_dyedDieselFlyer_0507.pdf

Heres another one
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5iuf.9HEeYAuGlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzazFtZGZ jBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0gxMDNfMTIy/SIG=11iahvj00/EXP=1206964526/**http%3a//www.in.gov/isp/2385.htm

They come to your door at your business, knock on it, you answer it and they say were from the government and were here to help you.

You seem to know alot about this... My amsoil concrete lube and my amsoil 2 stoke oil in my diesel turn my fuel a bright pink... So does that mean i'm facing possible fines?

I really just know enough not to run red as being in the excavating biz,especially these days,one has to constantly have the family size vaseline bottle in the cab with all the DOT boys running us scared.If it was me though,I would always have your 2 products in the cab to show them if you get dipped.They might hassle you,but once the lab results come back,you should be in the clear.{no pun intended}If I dare ask though--what are you doing with a concrete lube in your diesel?

The only problem I have seen with running the red stuff is that you better have a filter on the tank you fill your truck from (assuming they aren't gonna let you put it straight into your tank at the station). I tried to run the red stuff once out of a family farm tank and clogged the fuel filter within a day. Farm tanks are naaaaastty and this one had no filter on it. Other than that it is the same as any other LSD diesel from the pump. Of course, in another year and a half even ag diesel will be ULSD.

Tuney, you are allowed to run red fuel in an excavator right? I mean its off road, or do you mean that b/c of the excavating business the DOT knows you have red fuel for your machines, and assume its being used in your truck also?

I could'nt imagine using Amsoil concrete in my tank of fuel either.
If you look at those links.......I think I would risk running red fuel until I get caught, Then again with the IRS and red fuel, will lead you into a full audit....yada yada yada. Two tubes of vasoline
Bill

Tuney, you are allowed to run red fuel in an excavator right? I mean its off road, or do you mean that b/c of the excavating business the DOT knows you have red fuel for your machines, and assume its being used in your truck also?

I could'nt imagine using Amsoil concrete in my tank of fuel either.
If you look at those links.......I think I would risk running red fuel until I get caught, Then again with the IRS and red fuel, will lead you into a full audit....yada yada yada. Two tubes of vasoline
Bill

Bill--yes,absolutely you can run red in an excavator or any other off-road piece of iron plus on the farm.What I meant was I've been extremely unlucky lately getting stopped by the DOT.I haven't been dipped lately,I would be OK there--I'm legal.But yes,they will suspect excavators will try and run red once in a while,especially those who have transfer tanks on their pickups.Heck,lately, I've even been running clear taxed diesel in my equipment because of some logistics where I really don't have to.

In Michigan, they can come into your farm or business, inform you that they are going to dip all on-road licensed vehicles and you have to let them do it.

(SEE US-DOT ATTACHMENT BELOW)
The Internal Revenue Code provides that any person who refuses to allow an inspection will be fined $1,000 for each refusal. The vehicle may then be detained until an inspection is done.

Any vehicle in the premises licensed for on-road use, better NOT have any red fuel in the tank. You can tell them that you haven't driven it on the road with red fuel until you're blue in the face and they will tell you that "Dyed fuel must never be used in the tank of a highway vehicle that is registered or required to be registered." There are some exceptions for vehicle registered for farm use.

The Internal Revenue Code specifies a penalty of $1,000 or $10 per gallon, whichever is greater, plus payment of the tax. States may impose additional fines.

The Environmental Protection Agency also enforces a set of regulations that prohibits the use of red dyed high sulfur diesel fuel in motor vehicles, on or off public highways. The Clean Air Act specifies a penalty of up to $27,500 per day per violation.

These fines go up for subsequent offenses. So if they want to throw the book at you, you could get fined by the IRS, as well as by the state AND by the EPA. Additionally, you will have to pay the tax on ALL illegally used red fuel found. Plus, if they really want to get nasty, they could charge you with tax evasion, which triggers a whole bunch of other legal ramifications.

WHAT ABOUT FUEL ADDITIVES?
The law provides that any visible evidence of dye may result in a penalty. The introduction of fuel additives containing any dye puts truckers and trucking companies at risk for the penalty.
I suppose that you could request a chemical analysis to verify that the red color is NOT from THEIR red dye, but I sure wouldn't want to be in that predicament.

WOW thanks for all the info

question for you guys talking about new york, what are the chances of the DOT pulling over a out of state passenger truck? I don't run red but have thought about it. I drive in new york maybe once a month around the albany area.

Possibly, if there's an inspection dedicated setup already,but just a DOT officer noticing you driving around--not likely.

Here are some additional citations discussing the rise in soybeans as the cause for higher biodiesel prices. It's not a matter of producers 'following' the price of dino diesel up.

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,67937

http://www.kwwl.com/News/index.php?ID=23479

http://biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=2235

Last time I was working in New York (Oswego) they had the red and road diesel pumps on the same island, sometimes fill hoses on opposite sides of the SAME PUMP. It was awfully "tempting" to grab the hose that was 30 or 40 cents a gallon cheaper, but I suppose they might have purposefully offered that temptation!:o:

Problem with running red fuel is that the red smoke coming out your exhaust is a dead giveaway!:rolleyes:

right.....red smoke, that's a new one.

Last time I was working in New York (Oswego) they had the red and road diesel pumps on the same island, sometimes fill hoses on opposite sides of the SAME PUMP. It was awfully "tempting" to grab the hose that was 30 or 40 cents a gallon cheaper, but I suppose they might have purposefully offered that temptation!:o:


I noticed the same thing in jersey. It wouldn't bother me that much if the cheaper fuel was not as good as the expensive fuel... but the fact that the LSD is better and cheaper its rediculiously tempting

Problem with running red fuel is that the red smoke coming out your exhaust is a dead giveaway!:rolleyes:

suuuurrreeee:drinking:

I wanna run red fuel just so I can save about 100 bucks on my bill every month

Seems like I remember when the prices went crazy about 3 or 4 years ago that the DOT (fed) allowed red dyed to be sold for awhile due to shortage of undyed. Taxes were charged at the pump. This went on for a month or two. There was no red smoke coming out of tailpipes around here! Come to think of it my Kuboto tractor don't blow red smoke. Wonder what it has that my Dmax, 1,2 or 3 or my old International don't have to filter that red smoke out? Got to get me some of them filters.

On the same subject the stations around here were charging the same for offroad as highway during that time. Total rip off, I'm sure they were paying the taxes they were charging for to the gov.

I work at a drilling rig here in Texas. They have a huge tank that supplies the 3 Big Cat motors with fuel. About every fourth tank, I'll fill up for free and run the red fuel. I saves me well over $100. On another note, I know I could make some big bucks if I could come up with something that makes that red diesel green again.

Okay, so is there any proof that the fuel will kill a fuel pump or destroy a motor???????

Okay, so is there any proof that the fuel will kill a fuel pump or destroy a motor???????

I have never heard anything this crazy... If this is the case every body that runs red fuel legally is in trouble haha....

If its clean diesel fuel, No, period, it will not. Maybe a DPF if its not ULSD, but only after about 40000 miles of use. Its just red dye in the fuel, nothing more, nothing less. Have run it by accident in my 98 Dodge Cummings, my 04 Dmax, my 06 dmax (Major problems with the 06 but not from fuel!), my 86 International most of the time (Off road truck) my Kubota tractor. No problems in any of them. Did lose an injector pump in the Dodge once at around 220K miles. Doubt it was from red dye.

I agree with TOMREX, I was working on a rig in Alberta burning an average of 8000 Litres a day of dyed fuel and the man that delivered it told me it was the same fuel just with a few drops of dye. Alot of the farming communities in Sask. are bad for getting dipped. DOT will pull into parking lots and check everything from Jettas to Kenworths.
The question I wonder is that what is the difference in running it over Biodesiel? Both have no road tax paid on it. Where do they draw the line?

Everyone who runs red HHO in anything will have lots of trouble in a year or two if you are not adding lube to the fuel... HHO is changing over to ULSD with no LUBE!

I was filling up the other day and asked a the guy who owns the Commercial fuel station I use and he said it's the same fuel just with die. The red fuel at his station has already been switched over to ULSD. So, it's very tempting but since I would be realy stupid to try and pull up at the pump and go straight into the tank on my truck, i'm too lazy to put it in another container of some sort and then go home and dump it in. I'm not going to do that. So, doesn't look like i'll be running this magical and mystical fuel...................

I ran a bunch of red diesel through my 06 Dmax without any problems of any kind. We hunt Alaska every year and I have never been able to find "on road" diesel anywhere up there. We would get off the ferry in Bellingham, WA with 26 gallons of it in the tank. Not sure what they would have done if we got "caught".

The local station where I fuel at has one off road fuel pump. I do buy 5 gals. ever so often for my mower. Wouldn't even think about putting it in my pickup. With my luck I would be the only one ever checked around here. LOL.
I have seen a few roll-backs and other pickups fill up with the red stuff though. And since the price has gotten so high I have noticed they run out of the red diesel more often. I'm sure more folks are filling with it even though it is only .14/gal. less than regular.

hell with it just run it i have in my 05 one time it did not do a thing. its just colored red