http://www.deltacam.com/

PN#933-202

I just ordered an increased duration cam for my 599 rebuild from Delta Cams for $125+core. They claim they sell these often and usually to people going for the 18:1 cr , 300 hp build. The cam has a bigger increase on the exhaust than the intake duration, and I'm curious as to what the idle and acceleration note will alter like when you cam a gasser with a split duration torquer cam and it has a lopeing idle and crisper acceleration.

Got a coupla questions? Your going to put .O10" over gaskets and a reground cam in your engine. What provisions have you made for valve adjustment? Have you got stock specs and reground specs you can post?

I don't think the peak lift on the cam is increased but I havn't looked at the numbers yet. I was thinking .010" from the gasket would be taken up by the lifters.

.010" is not much for a lifter but if you regrind the cam you may also gain a little more slack. Usually they grind a little more off the base circle to get a little extra lift. When they grind off the base you get extra clearance which must be taken up somewhere.

Did I ever tell you about the time I decked a Buick block .060", shaved the heads .040", ported the intake to match, bondoed up the egr ports, and used Chevy big block lifters in it to take up the reduced height and didn't have to use adjustable pushrods? Oh! That's right this is a diesel site. Well, it did diesel when you shut it off.

.010" is not much for a lifter but if you regrind the cam you may also gain a little more slack. Usually they grind a little more off the base circle to get a little extra lift. When they grind off the base you get extra clearance which must be taken up somewhere.

Did I ever tell you about the time I decked a Buick block .060", shaved the heads .040", ported the intake to match, bondoed up the egr ports, and used Chevy big block lifters in it to take up the reduced height and didn't have to use adjustable pushrods? Oh! That's right this is a diesel site. Well, it did diesel when you shut it off.[thread hijack] why did it diesel? where the big block pushrods too short? Or did it change the CR that much?[/thread hijack]

Gassers diesel if the octane (a measure of a fuels ability to resist compression ignition) in the fuel is low and the compression is high.

I will not put 83 octane in my 12:1 CR porche
I will not put 83 octane in my 12:1 CR porche
I will not put 83 octane in my 12:1 CR porche

hehehe

I used big block lifters because they were exactly .100" shorter. Rich mixture, low octane, high compression, high idle speed, or a hot spot in the cylinder can contribute to a gas burner "dieseling"

keep us posted QM, curious to see what happens! What turbo are you putting on the rebuild?

It will depend on if I can afford to upgrade the turbo now or just run the gm-4 'till I can.

QM,do you think there is enough adjustment in the lifter to take up the added material in the thick head gasket? I'm trying to get enough parts together to do a rering on a 599 block that I have with some parts that came out of a oil spray engine that I had.

Yes, It seems like .010" will be taken up by the lifters, I'll put that to the test on the stand.

Spent better part of the day at Suncoast dynoday, met a rather nice fellow Jeff Garmon of Garmon Diesel Performance Atlanta Ga, Gentleman knows his stuff in his opinion cams and porting of heads a waste of money on Diesels with little to no benefit to be gained. Someone worth paying attention he ONLY made 522.1 Hp & 920.6 Tq Diesel only no propane-no NOx, with his 12V Cummins never touched heads, or cam , just pipes, programming ,injectors & single turbo and some elbow grease peaking an tweaking.

Looks like he needs another set of injectors. If it's a 12 valve there would be no programing involved. Don't believe everything you hear.



Wonder if there is a different ratio rocker arm available or adaptable to increase lift?

in his opinion cams and porting of heads a waste of money on Diesels with little to no benefit to be gained. Someone worth paying attention he ONLY made 522.1 Hp & 920.6 Tq Diesel only no propane-no NOx, with his 12V Cummins never touched heads, or cam , just pipes, programming ,injectors & single turbo and some elbow grease peaking an tweaking.Guys who do the cams and heads make over 1200 ft lbs TQ in their cummins way I'm reading it on the TDR.

Wonder if he knows about that extra 100hp hanging about in the atmosphere, just above his stacks?

That's raw unburned fuel, folks- meaning not enough air in the cylinders.

Gotta luv twin stacks on a Cummins, tho..........

Black smoke from a diesel ROCKS!!! At least the other diesel engines out there can get that kind of fuel delivered to the cylinders. More fuel + More air = more power. If someone out there could supply me some combination of IP and Injectors that would waste 100hp into the air while still getting 522 to the ground, I'd be the first in line with wallet open. I'm running out of off the shelf upgrades to put on my truck, and I want more power. The IP and injectors are my biggest road blocks, to my quest!

QM, if you report back that cam does something for you (even if its just SOP guage) I'll get one too! One thing I'm wondering about though is that you have your engine apart for multiple upgrades how will you determine what the cams contribution is?

I still think the old guy that taught me about gas engines is right about the engine being a pump. More air in,more fuel in more power out. So my idea is the cam should help by holding the valve open longer, just like a bigger valve if the head can support it without problems. The head porting and polishing should help the air get in and the spent gases out. I wish I had the time and funds to sit down and really get into building up one of this engines like I did when I was really into racing my dragcar.

My bad, wrong truck this one had Nox & propane on it, I had a long day and arrh-arrh-arrh of the day was making my head spin, the 500hp+ Diesel only truck I described is a daily driver believe it or not, I hope I have pics of it,.

In events & rallies later today I'll post more pics the TDR quys making 1200 Tq are on nitrous & propane I'd be willing to guess, the 1200+ Tq guys were here also using propane & Nox.

That works well for Gas engines using external timed spark to lite the fire you can do more things with cams & porting, Diesels work a little differently, when the fire comes from process of compression, go the wrong way with your cam or porting incorrectly, you could hinder more than help. From what he was explaining was that in a Diesel you can add more air (bigger turbo/intercooling), & more fuel(injectors/IP), and even change the time when you start injecting the fuel in relation to cam/crank angle, but increasing lift really not an effective mod for the trouble.

Lets see if I remember his quote correctly "if it's hard to start, idles rough, it will make power, if you can live with that." Or you can make a higher than factory powered truck wilth driveability that is what I'm after with mine more power that moves me & my toys from point A to B.

Black smoke is one of the #1 killers of good Diesel engines.

Black smoke is raw unburned Diesel fuel.

Diesel fuel is a light oil.

Oil, unlike water, retains the heat of the temperature it was exposed to - greater the quantity, or volume, greater the ability to sustain that temperature.

Black smoke is raw unburned Diesel fuel-oil at just below combustion temperature.

Combustion temperature of Diesel fuel-oil is ~1625deg.

Black smoke IS raw unburned Diesel fuel-oil at high temperature.

Exhaust Gas Temperature gages measure temperature of black smoke, which is unburned raw Diesel fuel-oil.

Exhaust Gas Temperature gages have green area, yellow area, and RED area - 1625deg is well into the RED area.

(Anyone get a sense of where this is heading?)

Black smoke is high temperature raw unburned Diesel fuel-oil in the cylinder, exhaust port, exhaust manifold, and turbo.

High Exhaust Gas Temperature is one of the #1 killers of good Diesel engines.

That sight would make any runny-nosed kid's heart pound with excitement.

That sight would make anyone with a basic understanding of Diesel functional concept, cringing in mechanical sympathy, call the DIESEL COPS to confiscate that truck, in hopes of saving that hapless Cummins.

The humor is real - the facts are real - I just hope the Cummins engine I get for my truck has not been previously subjected to abuse, like that.

Gotta luv the dual stacks, tho.......................

Couple of them Diesel smokers are equipped with Jeff's products, these aren't daily driver trucks, they are drag racers that also see the street these were all driven to the dyno event, Jeff fessed up it's all what you are after, gotta pay to play, you will break things eventually when going for this much power.

I was ready for the cam the instant I read the stock cam has 50* from when the exhaust closes 'till the intake opens. That's alot of time for both valves to be closed. Grape suggested the cam and a 1 or 2 point drop in compression might be a good compromise of driveability and performace power and I think it makes since to let the 6.5L breathe a little more. I'm gearing up to try it out, but so far the Cam and headstuds havn't arrived but I have the .010" over gaskets and I've been able to put a tin roof over my a-frame. So I'm no longer a shade tree mechanic I guess

Hope it works for you QM, ever thought of buying a G tech instrument, it isn't a dyno but will give consistent numbers much better than the AZZ-O Meter, that will be my next purchase, now that I have 2 sets of dyno numbers, I should be able to figure out the offset for fudge factor vs dyno generated numbers.

One of the things I had hoped to do a both dyno events was to tune/detune just to show what does what, time during a dyno event isn't there for that, so next best thing is G tech with max G, 0-60, HP & Tq then we can bump, add or remove breathers, chip/flash, fool/no fool, cam, port, polish, spit water, pray, and have some hard data for various mods.

Here's the numbers on the Delta cam.
lobe center seperation= 111.3 deg
valve overlap= -21.9 deg

intake

valve opens = -10.9 'btdc
lobe center = 106.7 'atdc
valve closure = 26.2 'abdc
duration = 195.2 crank deg
net lift .41132"
lobe area = 19.51 in * deg





exhaust
open = 33.3 'bbdc
center = 115.9 'btdc
closure = -10.9 'atdc
duration 202.3 crank deg
net lift .41787 in
lobe area 20.56 in * deg

All stock 6.5 L Engines have the same CamShaft.
I E
Opens 13° ATDC 39° BBDC
Closes 11° ABDC 17° BTDC
Duration 178° 202°
@ .050"

It appears the regrind increases the intake duration by 17 deg toward the overlap and advances the exhaust 6 deg with no increase in duration.

I wonder how much HP this guy id giving up?

When I had a G-Tech I found it to be inconsistent and inaccurate, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.

I've talked to guys who work for Cummins, and they find it a personal insult when they see one of their diesel engines that's been modified to produce tons of black smoke, because they put HUGE sums of effort into making sure the engines do not smoke. Diesel engines don't have to smoke, it's a biproduct of poor design. If you notice, modern diesels do not smoke. Even my 6.5 didn't smoke once I realized that the wastegate solenoid on the turbo wasn't working and fixed that. Furthermore, diesels that smoke validate the tree-huggers' bickering about how diesels are bad for the environment, therefore ensuring that they will push for legislation that even further restricts modification of our beloved diesel engines, or even their very existance. In 2010, diesels will be so clean that the air that comes out of the tailpipe will be cleaner than the air going into the engine.

Yep,
That's a stone cold waste of fuel and freash air. It would impress me more if he could
make the same power with a clean burn.

Spent better part of the day at Suncoast dynoday, met a rather nice fellow Jeff Garmon of Garmon Diesel Performance Atlanta Ga, Gentleman knows his stuff in his opinion cams and porting of heads a waste of money on Diesels with little to no benefit to be gained. Someone worth paying attention he ONLY made 522.1 Hp & 920.6 Tq Diesel only no propane-no NOx, with his 12V Cummins never touched heads, or cam , just pipes, programming ,injectors & single turbo and some elbow grease peaking an tweaking.
Good lord, is that the dyno he is running on in that pic? Not me, i would never run a truck on one of those raised platform dyno's. Just asking for an accident if you ask me. I seen plenty of trucks come apart, driveshafts come out, tires shred, straps break. I wouldn't run on anything but an in the floor model, or the low setup like the mustang dyno, maybe a foot and half off the ground at most. We got as performance shop here in houston with one of those raised dynos. I been over there when they run a VIper on it, I went outside:-)

Yup, hang that intake open longer that'll help.:grd:

Dunno the answer to that, Super Tuscan - when I saw it live, my heart was poundin' excitedly, and I was too busy wipin' my runny nose to do the calculations..............;)

Before going with a bigger cam, make sure that the valve springs can take the extra lift.

I"m sure that .010" extra lift, won't cause any problems.

I'm curious as to what the idle and acceleration note will alter, like when you cam a gasser with a split duration torquer cam and it has a lopeing idle....

Thats exactly what mine sounds like idling, big block with a hot cam. This camshaft couldnt cause any idle concerns that I could forsee in a diesel. In a gasser, the problem with the overlap at idle is that the fuel is premixed in the intake, some of the intake air spills into the exhaust and some of the exhaust gets sucked back into the chamber causing imbalance, can anyone confirm that? I'm not much of a gas mechanic, thats just been my understanding.

Anyway, on a diesel, at idle, the engine is running very lean, chamber is full of more than enough air/O2 to fully combust a metered quantity of fuel.

I think my problem is compression, weak cylinder, and its magnified by old engine mounts. I'm talking to a couple rebuilders about my options. Found one that ONLY puts the DSG gearset in his rebuilds, Be a waste of my brand new chainset, but I very much like the idea of building it with the set at the same time.

Black smoke is raw unburned Diesel fuel.

Black smoke is raw unburned Diesel fuel-oil at just below combustion temperature.

Black smoke IS raw unburned Diesel fuel-oil at high temperature.
I have to disagree with you on a couple points here....

Black smoke is diesel that has reached combustion temperature, but was incompletely combusted.

White smoke is RAW unburnt fuel that has not reached combustion temperature due to either late timing or poor atomization.

Correct - white vapor\smoke is fuel which never reached combustion temp, as in cold-starting; black smoke is fuel that reached combustion temp, but fire went out because of lack of O2, as I have stated in many previous trouble-shooting posts.

Difference is, white vapor is low temp - wasteful, but won't damage the engine; black vapor (smoke) retains temp of combustion from the piston, thru the valve, out the port, and into the manifold\turbine.

Very damaging in continuous quantity, because the piston, cylinder, head, valve, etc, cannot cool to normal operating exhaust temps - EGT is high, ECT starts climbing, engine oil temp starts climbing.......

Well....you know.

Right?

I agree 100% on that part, lots of black smoke is asking for trouble :)

Yup, hang that intake open longer that'll help.:grd:Thanks for the encouragement. What do you think of the work DAS does on the oil passages for 6.5L? I have considered porting them for increased oil flow in the head and to the cam.

Thanks for the encouragement. What do you think of the work DAS does on the oil passages for 6.5L? I have considered porting them for increased oil flow in the head and to the cam.
If you want to know my REAL thoughts on this, I'd say don't do it. The reground cam is the one major change between 18:1 engine #1 and 18:1 engine #2. Engine #1 went 5800 miles before I broke the block. Engine #2 runs good, but seemed weaker down low than #1.

Delaying the close of the intake valve is NOT the way to go IMHO...


Not sure what DAS is doing as of late. Engine #2 had the cam bore grooves improved, but that is about it.

There is no oil passage in the heads.

If you want to know my REAL thoughts on this, I'd say don't do it. The reground cam is the one major change between 18:1 engine #1 and 18:1 engine #2. Engine #1 went 5800 miles before I broke the block. Engine #2 runs good, but seemed weaker down low than #1.

Which one had the reground cam?

The present one which to me has less low end...

Anyone care to advise on how they would increase the lift .089 in to make up for the reduced lift on the regrind?

I was wondering about shimming the rockers or similiar.

Need more info. Where did you reduce the lift? I did not see that in your specs.
Most cam regrinders take metal off the base circle to offset the lobe grinding so that you'll retain the lift.

Only way to increase lift without the benefit of the cam is to change the ratio of the rocker arms.

Intake
max cam lift = .27421 in.
net valve lift = .41132 in.

exhaust
max cam lift = .27858 in.
net valvelift = .41787 in.

I may be wrong but the stock cam claims .5" in lift.

could a person take stock rockers and heat and bend them for increased ratio?

stock lift is .281" lobe x 1.5 rocker ratio = .421" lift at the valve. Only way to change rocker ratio is to move the fulcrum point one direction or the other.

.411" / .417" would be about stock lift. Grape is right about ratio. The pivot point determines ratio.

I'm ok with it.

For those that do not know -

Torque-to-yield head bolts were adopted by GM for one main reason - new, and head-serviced, Diesel engines require the head bolts be re-torqued over several run-cool-run-cool intervals.
TTY bolts require single torque procedure, only - no head-gasket failure has been proven resulted from the TTY system, even at GM's high 21.3:1 compression ratio.

Only drawback is single-use, only.

You should tell that Mr. Jacobson over on the GM Diesel Forum... He's very proud of his PE license and made sure everyone there was aware that I'm a know-nothing. There's a huge thread on TTY bolts and how "cheap" they are over there. I tried to explain a little of the logic, but, you know, I'm just an idiot. It got into who designed a bigger airplane for crying out loud.:rolleyes:

Yep - it's that subconscious thing about 'yield', as in grabbing a big wrench and tightening bolts into aluminum till the threads 'yield', or 'give up'.
I think the technical term is "oh, sh-t!".

As you know, in this case, it is tightening the fastener till it 'yield's the appropriate stretch for desired, or final, tension, well within designed tensile strength - requires no further tensioning.

Certainly would hate to be in that big airplane with arp studs, when the pop-riveted airframe let loose;)

For those that do not know - Dr. Lee can lay the goods on ya, from the standpoint of "registered PE" with PhD leverage - if ya care ta axe him............

Matter of fact - a search in his column would turn up a brief on the subject, iirc........

I have my ARP set right here waiting to go in. I like Hjacobson. He lives in his feild of truth.;)

Professionally, many engine builders know the advantages offered by studs, over bolts.
Studs are better for distributing torqued compressive loading, particularly now that new headgasket compounds have been developed - most hgaskets available now do not require re-torqueing after run-in.

But - that does not make TTY bolts useless, as stated, nor do they 'yield' and loosen over time, requiring frequent replacement, as some dufus on here stated.

Nor, should NASA briefs be applied to automotive engine apps, unless the briefs also cover the thermal cycles encountered, the compressibility of the sealing interface for the heat and pressures encountered, the metallurgy of the assemblies, etc.

Stresses involved in bolting pieces of aluminum\alloy together do not equate to bolting a cast-iron head of one alloy on a cast-iron engine block of a different alloy, with a compressible gasket for water, oil and combustion seal, maintaining correct clamping tension over the operating temperature range, for the projected life of the engine.

If the NASA brief also covers those points, then, yes, bring it up to prove the point.

To wit - Cantaloupe may taste good with a tbspn of whipped cream and a strawberry on each slice, but cucumber certainly would not, no matter what the family similarities.
(Yes, Emily - bees can cross-pollenate cucumbers and melons!)

Properly sealed\locked studs provide no shearing force in the block threads, only clamping\compressive tension.
The twisting force is taken by (hardened)threads in a hardened nut on a hardened washer, allowing smoother torque increment.

However, Teflon wrap provides seal, but no lock, allowing the stud to rotate, causing twisting shear in the block threads, same as a head bolt.
Requires cleaning original sealer from the block threads, degreasing the threads, then using the required thread-prep primer, to set the seal\lock, to make sure the stud cannot twist\turn\rotate in the block.

Make sure that when someone is telling you things you want to hear, you have enough background to know if he's switching cucumbers in for the cantaloupe you really wanted.

When an oem specs parts in to save time\money, it does not always imply the part is cheap - the alternative may be exorbitantly expensive in time alone, as in torque\run-in\retorque procedures.

Somebody's gotta pay for that time - usually, the consumer, in the vehicle price.

I have my ARP set right here waiting to go in. I like Hjacobson. He lives in his feild of truth.;)
The truth will set you free.

From what I've read from some, truth is not what is being pursued.

Thanks, GMCTD, but I'm quite capable of defending myself and stating my case without the help of Dr. Lee. I have experience as an expert witness in gear design and have taken the wind out of some lawyers sails to win the case. I just chose to drop the arguement with the "truthful" Mr. Jacobson because it was clear to me that no one on the planet knew more than him (at least in his mind). Some fights aren't worth winning.

Also, QM, the prize doesn't go to the one with the most crazy ideas... it goes to the one who can make his ideas work, and who understands the theory well enough to know when he's spitting in the wind.

For clarification, I never argued with Jacobson that the TTY bolts were better than studs... check what I wrote. All I did was try to point out that there was some technical merit to their use in the factory application. I thought all of you truth seekers would appreciate some more information to help you in your understanding of the trade-offs. Guess I was wrong.

As for Jacobson, I'll stack my engineering accomplishments up against his any day...;)

The Post wasn't entirely for you, rj - many people read amongst the available forums, so I try to address a response which will cover all.

In this case, it was to let any\all know where reliable alternative info could be found\addressed, pro\con.

I got faith in you, but you'd never win that argument, imo.

However - in light of some arguments, I like the special olympics analysis of internet squabbles.

Touchee

However - in light of some arguments, I like the special olympics analysis of internet squabbles.
):h

What are the advantages of head studs in a cast Iron block?

As you know, when properly installed, tensioning torque is distributed along full length of threaded interface, which is SAE-coarse equiv - coarse distributes greater load per fewer threads.

Usually, the threads for the nut-end are SAE-fine equiv, providing more thread interface per inch, and the nut and washer are hardened, preventing galling\'spalling' as torque is incremented to spec'ed correct compressive tension.

Particularly for racing, where repeated disassembly\assembly is necessary\required, ensures repeatability in mechanical performance, for compressive torque yield, doesn't stress cast-iron threaded holes, reduces cylinder\head surface distortion, etc.

I got a splittin' headache - thass all the advantages I can think of, fer now...........

The advantage I see is that if you stress the head by over heating it towing the travel trailer through the mountains or whatever, the studs aren't going to streach or loose clamping force that might require replacing the headgsakets or heads, especially if you've upgraded to a bigger turbo and can make 30 psi. If you do 3 head removals in an engine's lifetime then you've paid for the studs. TTY=$50 studs from summit =$150

Thermal ranges in a water-cooled engine do not even begin to approach temperatures required for head-bolt 'stretch', TTY or stud.

Most headgasket failures can be traced to -

altered coolant PH, where anti-freeze additive required changing once per year, but was not, particularly after the extreme heat cycles encountered in required heavy air conditioner useage in spring\summer\fall seasons south of the 'don't snow much down here' line.

vehicles parked for extended periods - SUV's motorhomes, campers, city\county, 'hangar queens', back-lot stars, etc.

2nd-3rd-4rth-etc, owners, replacing lost glycol additive with tap water, ditch water, pond water, etc.

Many reasons, none having to do with 'imaginary' TTY stretch-yield.

'Nother words - it's usually 'people' that cause headgasket failures - you need to know the history of the vehicle when assigning 'culpability'.

Know-whut-I-mean, Earn?

What are the advantages of head studs in a cast Iron block?One advantage that has not been mentioned:

When installing these studs as directed, the surface of the block deck immediately around the hole is put into compression. The stud is tightend against a shoulder or the runout from the threading operation. When the nut is tightened to create clamp load, this compression must be relieved before the surface goes into tension. This reduces the overall tensile stress in the surface of the deck.

In the aerospace world, studs (designs prior to about fifteen years ago) were installed with interference fit between the stud threads and the hole. The studs were assembled to a set height and driving torque specification. This forced the entire surrounding material into compression radially, which combined with the tensile stress from clamp load, resulted in better combined stress situation. Newer designs typically use key-locked studs. These studs have small keys assembled to the top of the stud thread with slots broached through the stud thread as guides. The stud is installed to a preset depth, then a tool is used to drive the keys into the threads of the hole. On aluminum and magnesium parts, the keys broach their own slots in the internal thread and provide a positive lock so that the stud will not turn. On steel or cast iron parts, the key slots in the internal threads (the hole) must be pre-broached before installing the stud and setting the keys. These studs provide no stress benefits as described previously, but will not turn accidentally.

Edited to correct a spelling error. rj

I like your answers. Very well said. My thinking (like most) (1) Less cylinder distortion,very important. (2) Hardened washers better torque regulation and distribution. (3) Stud goes all the way down in the block (4) Use of Loctite seals thru holes but also retains stud.(we Loaded each stud till the Loctite cured to assure the interference fit.) (5) Repeatability of distortion on the cylinder during head swaps.

Side note: To take advantage of head bolts I recommend spot facing each hole in the head to make sure it is square with the head surface. (Very important)

Thermal ranges in a water-cooled engine do not even begin to approach temperatures required for head-bolt 'stretch', TTY or stud.

Most headgasket failures can be traced to -

altered coolant PH, where anti-freeze additive required changing once per year, but was not, particularly after the extreme heat cycles encountered in required heavy air conditioner useage in spring\summer\fall seasons south of the 'don't snow much down here' line.

vehicles parked for extended periods - SUV's motorhomes, campers, city\county, 'hangar queens', back-lot stars, etc.

2nd-3rd-4rth-etc, owners, replacing lost glycol additive with tap water, ditch water, pond water, etc.

Many reasons, none having to do with 'imaginary' TTY stretch-yield.

'Nother words - it's usually 'people' that cause headgasket failures - you need to know the history of the vehicle when assigning 'culpability'.

Know-whut-I-mean, Earn?

VERY well put! I've seen a lot of crap coolant poured back into cooling systems.:badidea:



Studs have:

Fine threads for better TQ application

Parallel ground hard washers to minimize galling/dragging where nut meets the surface.

Greater tensile strength/higher TQ capabilities

No (or at least very little) torsional shaft twist when torquing. This is much akin using a lug nut torque socket. What you are twisting is also being stretched.

Can we fire up this cam thread again. JK talks about breaking blocks with an upgraded cam. Is this from normal driving or are you guys running the #$#)* out of it. Because I was wondering if and upgraded cam will help for the average "JOE". I'm not racing it or anything just looking for a little more power to play around with the FORD and DODGE guys. Oh I have to pull around a couple of flea bitten horses will it help or not worth the cash, too risky??

Might be better off waiting until QM finishes with it and posts results, at this point a lot of opinion both ways whether it will work or not starting to move into realm of dead horse society.

my camshaft is on it's way to me, I have to use different valve springs and have pushrods made though. I will also have to do my compression lowering with valve pockets, we kinda added alot of lift. Most won't want the hassle that I'm going through, and the billet cam core that we used ended up costing me $350.:eek:

Grape,

What kind of application is your truck used for? The hassle doesn't bother me if the gain is worth it, and relieablity is not effected.