I've been hit with a miss. [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

: I've been hit with a miss.


Glagulator
03-24-2008, 01:49 PM
Hello fellow 6.5ers.
I'm getting an excedrine headache over this. I am hoping some of you pros might help me out.
I am trying to diagnose a slight miss on my wife,s 96 sub.
BEFORE replacing the parts listed in my sig. the burb ran smooth as glass, no miss.
Work was done to replace a failed IP and the other parts due to miles and improvement.
After the work was done the burb fired right up and has run as well as a new one, EXCEPT
While normally driving there is a very weak miss, that becomes more noticable when OD kicks in under slight accelleration or incline.
Under hard accelleration it seems to not miss or lack power.
The miss has not changed since the repairs, always there, always the same.
I can power brake the burb and feel the miss, maybe not driveline related.
No black smoke, very little or no white smoke when started cold.
I finally got a code for #3 cylinder imbalance, so I replaced that new injector with a good one and no change.
Compression - #1 - 410 #2 - 450
#3 - 450 #4 - 420
#5 - 420 #6 - need adapter, on it's way
#7 - 450 #8 - 450
Glow plugs all looked about the same.
When cranking over the engine with pmd unplugged it sounds nice and even, FWIW.
Also replaced the rocker arm retainers, although they were still soft and hard to remove.
There are no signs of cracked heads or block, no mixed fluids, runs cool, no leaks at all.
Fuel tank has been removed, was clean as new! Could not believe it.
Lift pump working fine. All grounds cleaned and accounted for.
New pmd mounted behind front bumper.
Inj. lines looked good and were not bent any during work.
Inj. lines are not touching each other or anything else they should not.
The wife has driven the burb over 3000 miles like this with no change.
No unusuall noises from the intake to indicate a valve problem.
After hours of searching and reading, the closest thing I could find was a truck with a cracked valve spring,
but he also had a noise in the intake.
The HB and pulley look good, have had that problem several times on other trucks, does not feel the same.
Timing is very close to spec.
Feels exactly like a weak cylinder, but comp test says not. (so far)
What am I overlooking?
Can the inj. pump cause a miss on one cylinder?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike

0. Describe in detail the problem you are having. Please be as descriptive as possible.
1. Does the engine crank, or 'turn over'? yes
1a. Does the engine start and run? yes
1a1. If the engine does not start - Crack injector line (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2188140#post2188140): do you have fuel? Yes
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & the amount of time (seconds) lit. yes, 5-6 sec
1c. Ambient Condition (temperature outside indicate F or C) _75 f____ °
1d. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer). normal
1e. Are you experiencing stalling? no
1f. If Stalling, describe (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump etc)
1g. If Stalling, do you notice loss of dash or instruments?
-note if experiencing stalling,you must indicate PMD location in #24.1.1 Lift pump test (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39350)- describe results
2. Service Engine Light while running?- off
2a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes
3. Model year 1996
3a. Odometer reading 209,689 mi
3b. Miles on major engine components if been replaced approx 3,000 mi
3c. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump DS4 831 5521
4. Have you scanned for engine codes? yes
5. List exact results on engine codes- P0269 Cylinder 3 Balance System
6. Air Filter condition- new
7. Fuel filter condition- new
8. Condition of Battery terminal connections OK (removed, cleaned and tightened)
8a. Known condition and age of the batteries. new
8b. Are batteries of differing age or are they a matched set? matched
8c. Condition of Major Grounds- Done
9. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? no
10. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? no
11. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? no, almost instant
12. Have you used the block heater, and does this effect engine starting? no
13. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? no
14. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? no
15. Turbo check out. Set the TM to just a weak black smoke at full throt. Gauge is coming. Burb never sees
full throt. except when testing.
16. Do you have an EGR on the engine? F, no
17. Indicate if you know if. its a 2500HD.
18. Indicate fuel that you are using: #2 Diesel
18a. If running a VO - no
19. Are you using any fuel additives? Two stroke and standadyne
20. Please indicate geographic region you are in: South Texas
21. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? no
22. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better. See my sig.
23. Upon unscrewing the fuel cap- no - Tank collapsed on vacation 3yrs ago, removed, repaired,
tiny vent hole in cap.
24. Location of PMD/FSD. remoted out of engine bay behind front bumper.
24a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness. homemade, it's ok, I even tested the connections.
24b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. Stock location
25. Are ALL glow plugs in proper working order as per this thread? Yes, and they are new.

gmctd
03-24-2008, 02:02 PM
Where are the orig injectors? Try subbing the new injectors one at a time till they're all out - if it's smooth as glass, start back in with the Bosch's, one at a time till you find the faulty one(s) - new don't mean functional, in this day and age, due to ethnic perversity.........or, is that diversity

Additionally, with your cyl#3 balance DTC, swap any other injector with #3, see if the misfire goes to that other cylinder with #3 injector

rbr1317
03-24-2008, 03:04 PM
What GMCTD says! My first thought is an injector issue also.

Glagulator
03-25-2008, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the quick replys. I was hoping for the miracle fix, but not gonna happen.
I did swap out #3 inj. and nothing changed, so I'll start replacing new with old and hope this is the problem. Thanks again.

duramex
03-25-2008, 10:49 AM
I once had a IP that did that to me

Glagulator
08-30-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm still chasing the miss on the 96 sub. Have replaced all the injectors with no change. Pulled the valve covers and all seems to be in order. As I was spinning the engine over to observe the valve and rocker action I noticed that fuel was pissing out of one of the injector line connections on the pump.
The pump harness is disconnected and I have the lift pump turned off.
Is this a possible problem? When running through the injectors at least 10 times I was not able to detect any difference between cylinders, even after changing to known good injectors. Yet the miss is still there and can be amplified by power brakeing it to about 1000 rpm. There is no popping back in the intake or exhaust, inj. lines are clear, have not found any trash or debris in the lines or injectors. I'm beginning to think that maybe the rebuilt IP has a problem. I removed all the injectors and then spun the engine over with one inj. in each cyl. and they all sound the same. I got the adapter to check # 6 compression and that is ok so compression is not the problem.
ANY help or ideas would sure be appreciated. Thanks

DieselCash
08-30-2008, 02:51 PM
So you have swapped out all the injectors and the problem still persist.
Are you sure your IP is not bad?

Pruittx2
08-30-2008, 02:57 PM
could this be Fish Bite ?? related??

Glagulator
08-30-2008, 06:29 PM
I have no way of knowing if the IP is OK or not and nobody around here will test a used pump.
I'm trying to eliminate any other possible problem before condeming the IP.

It's not fishbite. There is no filter.
The miss is there at all times as if it were built to have a miss.

The fuel shooting out of one of the inj. line connections on the pump seems odd. I do not know if that is normal or not. I think that should not be the case, but I do not know. The biggest problem with these pumps IS getting fuel to pump. Maybe someone who works on these pumps could shed some light.

Thanks for your help.

HamOP
08-30-2008, 07:23 PM
The fuel shooting out of one of the inj. line connections on the pump seems odd.

Seems odd????
I just figured you had fixed it when you saw it.
You're right - Fuel should go through the lines, not around them.
Fix it - soon. The fire you prevent could be your own. Might be the cause of your miss too.

Glagulator
08-30-2008, 08:03 PM
The inj. lines, injectors, and valve covers are off the engine. The fuel is shooting out the end of one connector on the IP when I spin the engine over. Or are you just joking around?

HamOP
08-30-2008, 09:15 PM
Nope - not joking around. Then again, I didn't understand that the injector lines were off of the pump - Sorry.
What are you calling a connector? Where an injector line connects?

Glagulator
08-30-2008, 09:35 PM
"The fuel shooting out of one of the inj. line connections on the pump seems odd. I do not know if that is normal or not. I think that should not be the case, but I do not know. The biggest problem with these pumps IS getting fuel to pump. Maybe someone who works on these pumps could shed some light."

I should have also stated that I am cranking the engine over with the intake, inj. lines, valve covers, and injectors removed. I was watching the valve train action when I noticed the fuel coming out of the #2 line connection on the IP.

What I am trying to find out is if that is normal. From what I have read it does not seem right. The connectors on the IP for the inj. lines have some kind of valve in them. I do not know how they work so I am hoping someone here who does will help out. Thanks

rx7145
08-30-2008, 09:42 PM
I should have also stated that I am cranking the engine over with the intake, inj. lines, valve covers, and injectors removed. I was watching the valve train action when I noticed the fuel coming out of the #2 line connection on the IP.

Well with the lines off yes fuel will come out. Why would it not? Seems like I am missing somthing.

Anyway sounds like a pump to me. PM DieselPro if you want a pump he has good prices.

Glagulator
08-30-2008, 09:55 PM
It is an electonic pump and I have all the electrical connections removed.
The one sitting on my bench spins freely, no fuel comes out, (it has fuel in it) and I doubt I could turn it over if it were trying to pump the 2000 psi needed to pop the injectors. That's why I think it is strange that fuel is pumping in this case.

rx7145
08-30-2008, 10:02 PM
It is an electonic pump and I have all the electrical connections removed.
The one sitting on my bench spins freely, no fuel comes out, (it has fuel in it) and I doubt I could turn it over if it were trying to pump the 2000 psi needed to pop the injectors. That's why I think it is strange that fuel is pumping in this case.

Ok nerver mind.

Glagulator
09-01-2008, 06:24 PM
Found the problem. The burb is running smooth as glass again. What a relief.
The answer is , Yes, An electronic pump can make the engine FEEL like it has a dead miss on one cyclinder. Thanks

rx7145
09-01-2008, 07:49 PM
So it was the IP?

Glagulator
09-01-2008, 10:02 PM
Looks like. It was a rebuilt. Bad from the start. Now to deal with the rebuilder.