change or make us rethink why the injectors fail. This is from another site that I frequent as well:


I was astounded at the number of posts relating to bad fuel injectors. We don't see all that many isolated problems with them at the plant. Meaning we don't have to change on "here and there". When there is a problem in the plant with the injectors, it seems to be an entire batch of them (5,000 or so at a time). Bosch notifies us of the serial numbers, we contain the engines in-house, and have a mass injector change "party". This has only happened a couple times in the last 2 years or so. Injector serial numbers are scanned at build and matched with the engine in an enormous database somewhere. Theoretically, that way if Bosch called us "after the fact" and gave us a batch number of bad injectors for engines that have already been built, it would be possible to know what engines they were installed in, and recalls could be made on a truck by truck basis. By reading the posts, that seems to be the only downfall of the engine. I really need to get one http://gm-diesel.com/diesel/vbull/ubb/smile.gif

It just sucks that on the LB7, you have to remove the valve covers to get to them. The LLY is better, but it is still a job. And that's with it sitting on an engine stand in front of me. I couldn't imagine doing it with the engine in a truck.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
Overhaul/Repair department
Duramax Engine Plant
Dayton, OH


With this input it would make you wonder about all the fuel issues we think are the cause since they saw no mileage at the plant.

This should start a blaze of controversy.

So they are changing bad injectors at the factory....

Guess that dont help credability in the field huh?

Dmaxallitech,
My point exactly....Do the math and it is a pretty high number of engines that failed. I think more importantly what does this say about how we are all debating the fuel issue. This moreso points to mechanical design flaws and the with time it shows up which might explain why some fail at 10K miles and some get a lucky batch and go the distance....

I agree, dirty fuel is not the entire problem, you cant polish a terd, no matter how good the filter is

Really, Eric? I thought you threw in a can of turd polish with every order... I'll have to check my last packing slip... ):h

I mentioned a ways on back that I'd gamble with 'only' the factory filtration. On three trucks, two LB7's and one LLY and no injector problems to date. That said, I'm off to find a REALLY big piece of wood to knock on. Murphy...

Excerpt begs the question, Why no recall? $$$? Or perhaps because its not safety related? How recent is that post? Interesting, to say the least.

Ty

Ty,
This gentlemen posted about 2 weeks ago. He has posted a lot of good information. The thread has continued.

Answering your question...Why not a recall if they have them serialized and could identify???. I think it is in part what you said, not a safety issue just a pain in the butt. Plus what good would it do to recall without a solution? People would pour to dealers and trucks would sit. People would scream. I think they are handling the problem well. When they dive, they replace, no questions asked. Mine went off without a hitch, they diagnosed, ordered up, then called when ready. Truck down 1 day. Been stellar ever since.

Are there any checks or upgrades in design that give assurances that the replacement injectors aren't part of a flawed batch, are solid or better design and manufacture than the originals?

Lots of reports of repeat failures/replacements...

GM won't recall because it is NOT safety related. Plus.....the cost of it. Why replace someones injectors before they fail? Heck, they may last a year or two. They will only replace when they know they HAVE to.

Basicly Im keeping my fingers crossed that my injectors will last to 175K or so then go out. I feel like there will be a new design out by then as the current problems are too costly to Bosch and GM. We know for sure the cracked bodies are design issues but the Ball seat erosion (metal washing away) may be tied to fuel cleanliness and/or construction/material quality. Either should be able to be improved upon. I'm currently at 75K, awaiting good news and by no means worried enough to jump ship.

It's called attrition....every day they can delay, a few trucks are destroyed, sold, shipped overseas (or stolen and shipped overseas). Ford did it with the Pinto fuel tank problems, delayed as long as they could and something like 200 Pintos a day were going to the scrap yard for other than fuel tank reasons.

GM did the same thing with the mid 70's saddle tanks mounted outside the frame rails, delayed, offered coupons on a new truck.....attrition ate up the problem.

Each day there are a few less trucks to incur the cost on....time is on their side. Simple math, do a couple of 100 thousand trucks all at once or maybe do 25,000-50,000 failures over 2 years time, then walk way from the rest.


If I get to 100,000 with no problems I am taking the Nicktane off! LOL ha ha ha

Will put it back on when the injectors get replaced before 200K. LOL

Just had mine done by socaldiesel. He showed me how the repalcement injectors differed from my originals. The little ball is seated further recessed into the injector body. I don't know when this was changed or if there were other modifications to the injectors.

socaldiesel and the Service Writer at his dealership told me they haven't had any return customers who had had their injectors repelaced and that this injector replacement was a lasting/final fix.

Great info Guys Thanx :)

what that guy said is mainly the truth but dont think of it as something down, what he was talking about the "party" was a major thing, but he was right it was all fixed in house with new injectors, instead of the faulted injectors, i was part of that massive injector change, it took my whole easter break, but id rather have happy customers, than bad injectors that were shipped out, oh well

Koolz,

I am glad that all was fixed at the plant. Makes better sense. I think ChevysRUs has a better assessment on the plan which I 100% agree with. GM will just wait it out. See how many fail. Fix what breaks. Save face with a warranty extension for the few die hards while working on solution for the next Gen DMax motor. By then they will have the general public convinced to buy the latest and people will sell or scrap them. I will say that if GM gets a handle on this injector issue they will have one heck of a truck

It is the life cycle of automobile industry.....

How about us with the 2003 & 2004 trucks, are we to believe that the problems are behind us now? What is the acceptable fail rate in their eyes?
Should I just sell my newer truck which is only covered up untill 100,000 miles and find me a used 2001 or 2002 that is covered up to 200,000 miles?
If they do not know what the problem is, how can they say it is behind them?
They are just telling us that it MAYBE better on the 2003 & 2004 trucks. If they covered our trucks with the same warranty I would just drive it and deal with it if & when it comes up. I would be ready for a body change at that time anyway. As it stands I hate to run up the miles on this truck like I have on my older ones. It took a lot for me to even buy a GM diesel again after all of the dealer problems with the last diesel from GM (6.5) that I bought.
Rich.

Rich,
...Well kind of uncomfortable I must say. As I watched people dump their '01s to buy up in 03 I think their thought was the problem had been due to a "1st" year design flaw and that was behind them...However as we see from the evidence, this is not the case. I never once thought of selling my truck to buy newer or swap to a different brand, they are all suffering from one thing or another. My patience seemed to have paid off as GM came to the table and extended the warranty so it is like having a new truck to some degree.
I am not sure how GM will address the failures in 03 and up. It appears they are fixing only the injectors that fail not the entire bank as they did on the '01's. This seems to be a band-aid but one that seems to diminish the pain for them and Bosch. I did not buy up due in part I was convinced that they did not fully understand the problem. I purchased this truck with the full intention of it going at least 250K miles. I also expected some drivetrain components to fail along the way.

Who needs a data base.... when it's all of em

i guess the way i look at it, each motor has there achelis heel, duramax has the injector problem, dodge has the poor tranny, and ford has the bad turbos and whatnot, and i assure you Gm does everything they can to keep things in check, but sometime vendor issues are a problem, and usualy get caught inhouse so its not really an issue, but from what ive seen in the future engine plans of the duramax, bosche has continued to improve on there injectors

i guess the way i look at it, each motor has there achelis heel, duramax has the injector problem, dodge has the poor tranny, and ford has the bad turbos and whatnot, and i assure you Gm does everything they can to keep things in check, but sometime vendor issues are a problem, and usualy get caught inhouse so its not really an issue, but from what ive seen in the future engine plans of the duramax, bosche has continued to improve on there injectors

Excuse me but
"each motor has there achelis heel, duramax has the injector problem, dodge has the poor tranny"

Transmissions aren't motors.

Excuse me but
"each motor has there achelis heel, duramax has the injector problem, dodge has the poor tranny"

Transmissions aren't motors. hey i was close:) they go together:joke: oh well u know what i mean

hey i was close:) they go together:joke: oh well u know what i mean


You'll have to excuse HOOT,he went out and bought a motor, and just a dam motor, and is proud of it, dam proud of it! :whip:

my 03 has one injector at and acceeding +6 on the balance and the advisor who last week said it was normal now said well if the engine is not on I can not look at it.....
Eric
can you cross warranty. if so i have a case with GM and am looking for a good tech to do the work.....I may have to call Gm back to squeeze the milage in so I could get it to you. I hate being on the other side....

Hoot,

Man You seem a bit testy...You having sellers remorse or what.....:muahaha:

I still say we are over analizing this. It is what it is. I seriously doubt any of our logical approaches are going to have a significant impact on the outcome. I did the 100% stock deal for the first 97K miles and the injectors went away. I still say this is a mechanical design flaw more than a fuel issue. The fuel is what accelerates the failures.

Hopefully some aftermarket company will make some bullet proof injector design and we will add them...I still want 250K miles out of my truck.....:lol:

Patrick, I would never dream of doing crossline work!

Oh crap, I do everyday....shhhh

GM already screwed me with the knocking pistons in my gasser......

Now bad injectors.....ARGGGHHHHHH

What next....

Hoot,

Man You seem a bit testy...You having sellers remorse or what.....:muahaha:



When koolz had to add the tranny in to the "bad" motor list so it was included I thought it needed a correction. :muahaha:


Mackypoo no parts are falling off yet.

As far as my comments... I've always said what i thought, regardless of whether I own one or not. I laugh when I read how some of you guys tip toe around the obvious so as not to admit you purchased an engine that might not be as great as we all initially thought. It's good and I would own another if the injector issues went away and my Dodge wore out. Might be a while.

You gotta be careful you don't hurt peoples feelings when you just say what comes to mind or just say what's obvious.

As far as my Goat is concerned... so far not only the engine is performing great but so is the rest of the truck. 17,000 miles so far. A friend with an 04 in construction has over 60,000 on his and it's been flawless. He puts 30,000 a year on his an he works it... tows often. He recently put a TST box on it.

When koolz had to add the tranny in to the "bad" motor list so it was included I thought it needed a correction. :muahaha:


Mackypoo no parts are falling off yet.

As far as my comments... I've always said what i thought, regardless of whether I own one or not. I laugh when I read how some of you guys tip toe around the obvious so as not to admit you purchased an engine that might not be as great as we all initially thought. It's good and I would own another if the injector issues went away and my Dodge wore out. Might be a while.

You gotta be careful you don't hurt peoples feelings when you just say what comes to mind or just say what's obvious.

As far as my Goat is concerned... so far not only the engine is performing great but so is the rest of the truck. 17,000 miles so far. A friend with an 04 in construction has over 60,000 on his and it's been flawless. He puts 30,000 a year on his an he works it... tows often. He recently put a TST box on it.


Don't forget the "horn". :lol:

Sorry, Hoot. You're in the same boat as us, because you had a Max first...... :duh:

Bottom line: Since the Duramax has no other major issues beside the injectors, now that GM has extended the injector warranty and is providing free upgraded replacement injectors, Duramax owners can now rest assured they'll get their money's worth out of their investment. The key is finding a good Diesel Tech to do the upgrade.

I second MR X!!!!!

When koolz had to add the tranny in to the "bad" motor list so it was included I thought it needed a correction. :muahaha:


Mackypoo no parts are falling off yet.

As far as my comments... I've always said what i thought, regardless of whether I own one or not. I laugh when I read how some of you guys tip toe around the obvious so as not to admit you purchased an engine that might not be as great as we all initially thought. It's good and I would own another if the injector issues went away and my Dodge wore out. Might be a while.

You gotta be careful you don't hurt peoples feelings when you just say what comes to mind or just say what's obvious.

As far as my Goat is concerned... so far not only the engine is performing great but so is the rest of the truck. 17,000 miles so far. A friend with an 04 in construction has over 60,000 on his and it's been flawless. He puts 30,000 a year on his an he works it... tows often. He recently put a TST box on it.

OK Hoot more time now.

Since you speak your not afraid to speak your mind and always have no matter the brand.....

Your very early 01 Duramax went 80K with only minor issues. You, not GM ,added Propane very early on which very well could have,I'll bet the bank it did, led to your head gasket failure which ultimately brought you to where your are today in diesel ownership.

With out going out on the limb,and I have been paying attention,not many head gaskets went unless they were POWER enhanced,not just plug and play,but nearly all.....,I'm going to stop there.

IMO YOU caused your own early departure and turn away from GM.If YOU wanted a change then so be it,but all you do is harp on one thing Injectors Injectors and Injectors as a weak point on GM,that's all you got.There is absolutely NO failure guarantee!

You know more than GM? I didn't think so :rolleyes:

You had NO experience with INJECTOR failure with your Duramax and IF YOU didn't toy with yours it it might have been fine today,head gaskets and Injectors intact,longevity one should expect from Diesel ownership.You cannot deny it!

Like I said ,you bought a motor :badidea: ,hope it all works out.
If you wanted change, great,but I see more and more and more :rant: in the Duramax forums


:flipa: :stick_out :flipa:

hey no hard feelings, but next time u buy a motor let me know i will make sure to drop some bolts down in the crankcase lol...just kidding, id never wish that on anyone(seriously, im a good person)

hey no hard feelings, but next time u buy a motor let me know i will make sure to drop some bolts down in the crankcase lol...just kidding, id never wish that on anyone(seriously, im a good person)

Don't you worry about Hoot,I have him in my rearview! :driver:

Mac,
Wow..... I agree if you really look at what has been the standout problem it has only been injectors. To me that seems like a really silly problem to even worry about nowadays. GM stepped up and I have 3 more years and 100K miles left...and I did not have to buy a new truck to get the warranty.:D I know 2 guys that dumped their perfectly good running Dmax trucks when the injector problem surfaced and one went Dodge the other Ford. Now, fast foward nearly 1.5 years both say this: I am kicking myself in the A$$ for selling my Duramax truck. I should have kept it. Both are suffering with the well known problems associated with the other makers. However the Ford truck owner has been down and in the shop numerous times for lengthy stays.

This supports my statement I posted in another thread on this site sometime back...Dumping your truck thinking you have rid yourself of the problems is a COSTLY error in judgement.

Not picking on ya Hoot...We have been bantering back and forth for nearly 3 years now But you really need to talk to us when you get to the 100K mark with your truck..... 17K miles is nothing

I was dreading/sweating getting my injectors done like getting teeth pulled. However, thanks to socaldiesel and his service writer the replacement experience was 100% positive. Small touches like the gratis oil change and engine cleaning add to the satisfaction of seeing a job well done. In sum, a very valuable upgrade that boosts confidence in the truck's reliability, it is now running as smooth as day #1. Love this truck...

I'm at 75k and the worst problem I've had is to replace the lower ball joints and rear rotors. I also have an '03 PSD that at 14k I've had in several shops trying to get the front end to track, still without a solution! If the injectors fail, I'll get a new set for free from the stealer.... However, I've been wondering, is GM going to warranty if they see signs of power enhancements? Don't have a programer or chip----yet, but makes me wonder if I'm best to leave it relatively stock? Overall, I'm very pleased with my '01 D'max and wouldn't want to trade in out...

according to a poll on TDR the CR cummins has a 13% failure rate.

http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119501

Mtomac,
Interesting reading.
So the Dodge owners are experiencing similiar issues. What is Dodge's warranty policy? I see some were replaced 1 at a time..That should ultimately be painful with a lot of return visits....

Well so it goes......So it goes...

Still Love my truck and will not give it up....I have wanted an Acura NSX(the bad boy) for 2 years now and Wife has said Go buy it, The bad news is I would have to give up my truck and I said NOPE....I like my Duramax powered NSX.....:lol:

Bottom line: Since the Duramax has no other major issues beside the injectors, now that GM has extended the injector warranty and is providing free upgraded replacement injectors, Duramax owners can now rest assured they'll get their money's worth out of their investment. The key is finding a good Diesel Tech to do the upgrade.
I will agree with Bottm Line, If 2003 & 2004s are covered like the 2001 & 2002s
Also if mine goes down I will trailer it if needed to someone that knows what they are doing with it. We do not have anyone around here that we can trust.

Where are you at Rich H.? I am near Indianapolis, and have only thought about SKillman GMC, although (THANK GOD/ KNOCK ON WOOD) I have only had to replace my rear U Joint and Tailgate Straps. If anyone knows a better place near Indianapolis then please let us know. BTW mine is an 03' Sierra D/A

Ogre,
I live up north, 10miles south of the IN./MI. state line.

OK Hoot more time now.

Since you speak your not afraid to speak your mind and always have no matter the brand.....

Your very early 01 Duramax went 80K with only minor issues. You, not GM ,added Propane very early on which very well could have,I'll bet the bank it did, led to your head gasket failure which ultimately brought you to where your are today in diesel ownership.

With out going out on the limb,and I have been paying attention,not many head gaskets went unless they were POWER enhanced,not just plug and play,but nearly all.....,I'm going to stop there.

IMO YOU caused your own early departure and turn away from GM.If YOU wanted a change then so be it,but all you do is harp on one thing Injectors Injectors and Injectors as a weak point on GM,that's all you got.There is absolutely NO failure guarantee!

You know more than GM? I didn't think so :rolleyes:

You had NO experience with INJECTOR failure with your Duramax and IF YOU didn't toy with yours it it might have been fine today,head gaskets and Injectors intact,longevity one should expect from Diesel ownership.You cannot deny it!

Like I said ,you bought a motor :badidea: ,hope it all works out.
If you wanted change, great,but I see more and more and more :rant: in the Duramax forums


:flipa: :stick_out :flipa:



I must apologize.



For being such a big advocate of the Dmax early on. For those in the 20%- 25% failure bracket especially. How could we have known?


:D

They are different trucks... not just engines. I'm just being a thorn.