The best choice in CHIPS.

And Why? I need mine mostly for towing and fuel economy...

Any help on this would be appreciated.

ALSO, can they be installed with good results, without adding Exhaust, and other 'stuff'??!!!

Thanks all..

There is no perfect chip out right now. Everything is a compromise right now. Why don't you tell us what you are looking for in a chip and we will try to help you find what is best for you.

For towing and mileage with everything stock, IMO regardless of price, so far the TTS Tow is the winner of the units I have tested so far for the LLY. It will make your truck about as quick as a Silverado SS with no other changes. It is the Cadillac of tunes, and pretty much everyone who has run one says the same thing.

The best value, ie- Bang4D$ is the Predator for LLY's. While it might be the cheapest, it's features and performance are a true bargain. It will read and reset codes, remove the limiter, adjust speedo, and do engine function datalogging.

There is no perfect chip out right now. Everything is a compromise right now. Why don't you tell us what you are looking for in a chip and we will try to help you find what is best for you.
As I mentioned, Mostly, I am looking for performance while towing, and maybe better fuel economy, while doing it. Of course, It would be nice to 'floor' it, and whip some of these impatient 'hot shots' who think they are going to be 'held' up by some slow truck!

For towing and mileage with everything stock, IMO regardless of price, so far the TTS Tow is the winner of the units I have tested so far for the LLY. It will make your truck about as quick as a Silverado SS with no other changes. It is the Cadillac of tunes, and pretty much everyone who has run one says the same thing.

The best value, ie- Bang4D$ is the Predator for LLY's. While it might be the cheapest, it's features and performance are a true bargain. It will read and reset codes, remove the limiter, adjust speedo, and do engine function datalogging.Out of curiosity, where would be DURAMAXIMIZER fit in on your list of chips?


Thanks for the answers thus far!!!!

I am pretty sure they don't make a duramaxamizer for an LLY.

Duramaxamizer is also rated lower on the scale of tuners compared to others for the LB7

The only product that MIGHT be a "Duramaximizer" is called the PPE Enforcer. It appears to be a pressure box. It does run smooth, but I haven't fully tested it yet.

As I mentioned, Mostly, I am looking for performance while towing, and maybe better fuel economy, while doing it. Of course, It would be nice to 'floor' it, and whip some of these impatient 'hot shots' who think they are going to be 'held' up by some slow truck!

We did a run to Las Vegas for a race towing a 24' enclosed car trailer (8,000?), went up the Baker Grade at 75-80. This is a high altitude, steep highway, and it's HOT. Most passenger cars couldn't keep up with us. That's with 311rwhp from the TTS Tow. How fast do you want to go?

Right now with the Predator set to kill, it will outrun most sportscars up to 80mph. It will kill a 2005 Mustang GT in stoplight warfare.

Question is, how FAST do you want to go, and are you willing to pay the price? What do you want to outrun?

I love my predator....I run mine on the 100 hp tune but my tranny is upgraded. It is in my opinion the best high horsepower tune out there right now as far as the ones I have tested go. I have not run any of the smaller programs but people who have tend to be satisfied. You will want to stay under 65hp on the predator with stock conformation.

VA have always been good in the past(lb7) keep them in mind, problly a lot cheaper than most

Ronadycks, several months ago when I joined this site I would have never envisioned myself discussing programmers/chips for diesel trucks. I have learned so much from these guys, as you can see from their posts. :ro)

Like you I went through the same debate for several weeks with the same criteria as you and had decided to go with the Predator since it appeared to provide the most "bang for the buck". Before I purchased it (they are locally stocked) I needed to get gauges installed: EGT; boost; and engine temps. A good set of gauges was going to run me between $400-$700 depending upon the quality and shop that would install them. The only shop that sounded like they knew what they were doing was the $700 one! :o

So ol' JJ is doing the math, $400 for the Predator, $700 for the gauges, all total $1100. Considerably more than I had planned on spending, and initially I had ruled out the E/J w/attitude due to its cost. Now I'm thinking :rolleyes: for $400 less I could buy the E/J w/attitude and have built in EGT, boost, engine temps and several other monitoring features, plus it has built in tranny protection and will defuel if my EGT's go above my programmed limits. Oh and you can reprogram on the fly baby! HHHHMMMMMMMM? :rolleyes:

See where I'm going with this? While each has its plus's, every programmer seems to have its own set of issues with the LLY, I don't believe I found any exceptions in my research. Some have posted the E/J doesn't work when the engine is cold, no surprise to me since it states in their literature it doesn't engage until the engine is up to normal operating temps. Not sure why, that's still out of my league! :p

Something to consider. For racing there are better programmers than the E/J, but for towing few offer the power plus protection to the LLY and Ally like the E/J w/attitude. JJ's out! :)

I'm also in the market for some get up and go (I tow as well). Is the TTT Tow a tuner, or Chip? I am looking for better mileage, and a little more power. Don't want to jepordize warranty either.

Thanxs

The TTS Tow Tune for LLY's is a custom program by Steve Cole, who is arguably one of the best custom tuners in the world.

It involves swapping your PCM. www.ttspowersystems.com

Thanks everyone. I see from the posts, that there are some pretty knowledgeable folks here. I am glad to be a part of the group, even though at this point, I am more of a 'learner' than a 'teacher'!!!!
(someday, I hope to be a contributer of knowledge too!)

...meanwhile thanksssss

Any other thoughts, keep 'em coming.

As I have been towing here lately, I was surprised to find that my 2003 pulls slightly better than my 2005. I thought the '05 had more HP, and torque. I live in So. Cal, and was able to pull my 11k lb. trailer (with the 2003) up the Cajon Pass easily at 55-60.

With my 2005, I can barely hold 55. Depressing, plus worse fuel economy.

I have the Predator on 1 of my trucks. I have tried Edge, Quad, and the Bully dog. I like the Predator's performance best, but am still dissapointed with hand calculated MPG.

I have the Predator on 1 of my trucks. I have tried Edge, Quad, and the Bully dog. I like the Predator's performance best, but am still dissapointed with hand calculated MPG.do you have any tranny upgrades? what hp are you running?

thanks



***predator that is....

when you guys talk about the predator, are you talking about the Diablo predator or just the predator?

One thing nice about the J/A, running on level 1 or 2 if u need to pass just punch it up a few levels.
the power change on the fly is FUN.
also if u need some smoke level 5 does a nice job :ro)

No tranny upgrades. 40 and 65 depending on load.

No tranny upgrades. 40 and 65 depending on load.
you ever attempt running it on 85?

Ronadycks, How many miles does your '05 have on it? Probablly not even broke in yet would have something to do with it.....
Jason

SO far, it seems the Edge or Predator are the leading choices.
I would be concerned about trading my PCM for a Modified one. I only have 7,100 miles on the new truck. It seems the dealer would try to void any warranty issues as far as drive train is concerned.

QUESTIONS>>>>>>>

Tranny Mods. What are we talking about? Valve body and Converter? Or more? And do they affect warranty? Approximate cost...

Exhaust mods. Would this make a difference in any configuration? Approximate cost...

Given the aformentioned options, and my willingness to spend about $3,000 on these mods, I am looking for the most bang for that buck///

SO...

At Stock, If I pull about 11k lbs. through a certain hill at 55 floored (Cajon Pass in CA), what approximately could I expect at a tune level for towing with any of these chips? SO, at stock I can barely hold 55, now I kick in 40-65 on the fly? What can I expect?

I guess, I am looking for performance in towing as the first priority, and then gas mileage, and then last, street performance.

THANKS to ALL for YOUR advice!!!

Ronadycks, How many miles does your '05 have on it? Probablly not even broke in yet would have something to do with it.....
Jason7,100, thanks...
but I will say, that I never noticed a significant improvement in mileage or power output with my 2003. I put 34,000 miles on it before trading in in for the 2005.

Not sure I buy the ' break it in ' theory. At least in my limited experience, I didn't see anything significant.

Interestingly, my 2003 pulled better and got better mileage. I don't understand it. I took it in to have the fuel system checked for balance and pressure. (whatever they do to verify balance rates, etc...), And they say it is fine.

My 2003 pulled on average 9.5-10 mpg's while towing. Hand calculated.
My 2005 averages 8.

My friends with Newer gassers razz me a bit on this, since of course, I paid an additional fortune for the DURAMAX. To dollar cost average the price difference, I would have to keep the truck for a LONGGGGG time.

The most bang for the buck will most likely be the Predator. I have not tried mine higher than 65HP, but I love it. I have a stock truck with a drop in K & N and it is "kitty-less". I have tried the Edge, Quad, and Power Pup on it. The Predator runs as good as the others and has Diagnostics. None of them seemed to help my mileage mt, but the Edge and the Predator do a little loaded. The Quad stealth was just to resposive at low rpm. It was hard to take off without spinning the tires. Bully dogs would not load. I sent it back for repair and it still would not load. I love the Edge for the extra's, but I was getting codes with it. I would love to try a Van Aaken, I have heard their LB7 box helped mileage a bunch.

The most bang for the buck will most likely be the Predator. I have not tried mine higher than 65HP, but I love it. .
:eek: I have heard I will need to install gauges:confused: ???

Not sure I like that idea. I want to be able to pull it out without the dealer noticing I have it. If that is possible!!!

:eek: I have heard I will need to install gauges:confused: ???

Subliminal message ):h "Edge w/attitude has built-in gauges, tranny protection, EGT backdown settings" that you can easily remove before going to the stealership for service".

There is a significant difference between those posting for racing and performance versus those of us that just want to "tweak" the duramax a little without pouring tons more money into our trucks. :rolleyes: The E/J w/attitude is a very safe, smart module that can be easily removed without a trace (except for EGT sensor probe). ;)

You are having the same debate I had. I'm installing my e/j today and will tow heavy with it on Thursday. I will return on Monday and post my results. I'll have some nice long grades to tow on this trip. Sure with I had the EGT sensor installed. Sticking to level 1 all the way. JJ ):h

You should not need gauges on the lower settings. The Edge will also require drilling and tapping the exhaust manifold to install the attitude, same as any gauge.

Installed the E/J w/attitude this evening except for the EGT probe. Pretty straight forward, though the tolerances were pretty tight on the bottom connector. Took all of 5 minutes. I may have a shop do the EGT probe, but I'll look at Hoot's method first.

Anyway, both regular and tow/haul are set on power setting 1. Engine temps on the attitude run 10-15 degrees cooler than OEM gauge, watching the boost go up and down may be the end of me-JJ doesn't need gadgets that light up and change as you accelerate, too distracting and fun to watch. :o

Initial seat of the pants impression? :D I was prepared for some erratic shifting from the Ally, there was none! The LLY idles better than before, especially at lower speeds. Get up and go is negligible to me, but really what I'm going for is more muscle in the mid-range and for pulling. I'll know more on Thursday when I hook the 5ver to it. :confused:

RDL, I got a little pucker in the shorts with the gauge advice. :eek: Everything I've read on the DP, from Edge, Predator and others is you should always have at least EGT gauges when running any type of programmer, especially if you are towing heavy. I'll yield to your technical expertise and considerable towing experience, but for the average smuck like JJ that may be risky! :o JJ :)

I think Predator says you do not need gauges until you get to the 85 Hp setting. I'm on the road right now and don't have the info for sure. I would not recomend running the higher settings or towing heavy without gauges. I run the lowest setting on my truck with no gauges and I am pleased. I also have mine "kitty-less". I have ran the 65 setting towing, but I don't do it on a regular basics. I towed with my Juice on level 2 with no gauges or Attitude for a long time.

The techs at diablo sport say you are safe at the 65hp setting and below as long as you are running empty without guages. I have ran my predator at 40 hp and was pretty happy so far.

I did not mean to make anybody "pucker", especially you JJ. Below is a copy of a question and their answer from their website.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" bgColor=#000080 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#b0c4de><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Predator: Do I have to get boost and exhaust gas temperature gauges? </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#f5f5f5><TD><!-- Article -->No, our tunes are designed to run within safe boost and EGT limits but we recommend them, especially if you run the higher horsepower tunes or do extensive towing. <!-- /Article -->Last update: 2005-01-10 16:52



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I ordered a Predator, due to its simplicity in installation. Not that the others are that much harder to install.
I used Diablosport's site for much of my Q&A, http://www.diablosport.com/faq/index.php?aktion=anzeigen&rubrik=001

I made the choice mainly because I can remove it without a trace. Also, I don't plan to do major modifications to the truck except the exhaust, and hopefully NOT have to add gauges. A realize I may have to consider it, But I am being hopeful. I plan to install Exhaust to compensate for the Possible HIGHER EGT's.

:confused: :confused: :confused: Any comments on what the best exhaust system would be????.

One concern, and that is I tow approximately 11,000 lbs., and someone mentioned I should have gauges, if towing more than 8k. I don't plan to move past level 1 or maybe 2, while towing, and most likely if level 1 gives me the porformance I need, then I will stay there. I just want to be able to take grades, a bit faster than 50-55. And have a bit of pedal left over! And secondly, maybe improve my MPGS a bit.

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I plan to run my truck along the same stretch of road, with and without the programmer, just to compare the differences.

I will post my results before and after installation.

JJ,
Installing the exhaust probe is not difficult using the "Hoot" method. Just use care and don't force anything.

Although it is probably to okay to run a chipped truck w/o gauges safely in the lower tunes, I wouldn't tow heavy, even in a stock truck without them. Most stock LB7s will top out around 1250 degrees under a good load up a long hill, but some will go higher, and I've read a number of posts from LLY owners saying they see higher temps even w/stock trucks. If you boost performance w/o gauges you are essentially flying blind. The General should have made these gauges standard equipment.

TC

The only good use for the predator is dialnogics(SP?). I do not use it for performance-:t -:t . It is quite slow compare to the Hot Juice. The old version used to stack real good with the HJ put the new version 1.11 does not stack good with the HJ.

BassinRVer, try it on the LLY. I have had both. I agree on the LB7. Edge just hasn't quite got the bugs out of the LLY version yet.

:confused: :confused: Any comments on what the best exhaust system would be for the Predator????

I held up my Exhaust order on this to get input from you folks...

I don't know what the best is, but I had a 4" from a company out of Arkansas and it did nothing for me. I am currently running stock "kitty-less" and like it. Not much for sound, but no codes.

So, letting the kitty out of the proverbial 'bag' will help egts the same way a larger exhaust would? You think? I think can easily find a replacement 'empty kitty'

My only reservations are, that I truly what to keep things as 'stock' as possible. Especially during the warranty period.


I don't know what the best is, but I had a 4" from a company out of Arkansas and it did nothing for me. I am currently running stock "kitty-less" and like it. Not much for sound, but no codes.

There is a thread on here somewhere about knocking the insides out of them so they apear stock. I just put on an LB7 front pipe and I kept my "kitty" in tact, under my back deck. Can reinstall if needed. My dealer has not said a thing, YET. I also recently e-mailed diablo sport on my mileage not going up. Hope their response will help me and my mileage. It would appear some got lucky and get good mileage. I do not. My 1st LLY has over 110,000 miles on it and after the reflash it runs great and gets better fuel mileage. My other 04 did not improve with the reflash.

Just installed the predator, and will set it to level one.

Good discussion! Each of us has to decide the risks we are willing to take with our trucks. Some are comfortable towing heavy without gauges while others are not. JJ is going to fall on the side of having gauges, at a minimum an exhaust temp gauge. :)

You can overheat the engine without frying the engine, but excessive EGT's? :o: Installing a simple EGT gauge has no affect on your warranty since it is not modifying anything, moreso just monitoring things. :) You don't have to remove it for a trip to the dealer.

Ronadyck, first don't rely upon the DIC, they are notoriously inaccurate even before installing a tune. IMHO towing 11k lbs will put you at risk of excessive EGT's, especially if you push the LLY up long climbs while towing. The weight being towed isn't the only consideration. What you are towing has to be factored in as well.:rolleyes: For example, I can easily tow a 10k lb boat that has very little wind resistance, but strap a 10k lb travel trailer with a large frontal area and it is much harder for the LLY to tow and maintain the same speed. :confused:

Your words "I just want to be able to take grades, a bit faster than 50-55" indicates you want to be able to hold higher speeds while climbing. EGT's are at their highest at these times, you need to know what the EGT's are to know if/when to back down. You don't see too many semi-drivers trying to accelerate up long grades when they are fully loaded, there is a reason! -:t

Predator, E/J, Hypertech... all of them have a disclaimer that "use of their devices is at your own risk". Personally I wouldn't rely upon any programmer/tuner manufacturers marketing hype and risk killing a very expensive engine. :eek: Extra power doesn't just happen without altering certain engine aspects, EGT's are one of them. Many, if not most that tow heavy would recommend installing an EGT gauge on a stock truck. Use a programmer that increases hp/tq, an EGT gauge is normally a given! ;)

You might want to cruise through the towing/trailering section for further intel. While you might be fine 90% of the time, if/when you encounter "the wrong hill at the wrong elevation at the wrong humidity towing the wrong item "you may unknowingly cook your engine. Couple hundred bucks for piece of mind! Money well spent in my book. JJ :)

Thanks JJ, that was very good information. I truly have tried to even justify why I need to take a hill faster or, maybe 'hold' a given speed. Mainly, I don't want to be that guy that is holding up traffic. So, I felt, if I can hold about 60, I am not going to upset too many folks in Jettas!
But, My truck now has 7,500 miles on it. And I plan on using only the tow tune. I just hope all the hype is true, that If and when I install, that I can re-install the "factory" tune without the dealer taking notice. Otherwise, all drivetrain issues would be on me, for a lousy 375 dollar toy, I HAD to have.

I think there are a certain group of folk (like us) that always want to treak, and make things better. Sometimes, it can bite ya in the butt.

:rant: Still, I feel a bit mis-lead by GMC, given they claim more horsepower and torque in the 2005 models. What a CROCK. My 2003 pulled MUCH better and got at least 2 mpgs better in fuel economy.
AND, I traded the 2003 in, T H I N K I N G I would get exactly what I am paying for:mad: , in the PREDATOR Device.

You shouldn't have any problems reverting back to stock settings with the Predator. If you do there are plenty of guys on the DP that can help you. :p:

Don't be too fast to "dis" the LLY. The LB7 owners were crying in their milk during early production years due to the injector failing issues.:o: The LLY is a different beast and will come around in due time. :ro)

Each of the aftermarket programmers seems to have differing operating characteristics. One guy just posted on the trailering forum that his EGT's were actually lower while towing with the E/J w/attitude, while another with a hyptertech was max'ng 1400 egt's unloaded???? This is why I preach the EGT gauges. The E/J holds 5th gear while towing keeping RPM's lower which keeps boost and fueling at a minimum. Not sure why the hypertech EGT's were so high. Thing is without gauges you just don't know. Too risky for such an expensive truck! :exactly:

I'm having the EGT probe for the E/J installed next week, it's going to cost me $130 using a professional racing shop. I'm also looking at having them install the MBRP exhaust and WI system. Doing some research on that now. They will dyno for me after everything is installed. :D

BTW, the reflash on the 04.5 LLY's appears to bring them up to the 05 hp/tq settings per Ted Jannetty Racing's pre/post reflash dyno numbers. Makes sense given they are the same engine. Hang in there, we have the right truck, just need to continue "tweaking" them. Back to MBRP shopping, where is that credit card? ):h JJ :)

JJ,

You mentioned before that you have the Edge Juice with Attitude and that you as well as many of us were using it for towing.

I am wondering if you have used it yet and your thoughts. I have a similar problem in that I tow a 5th wheel, 33 ft with pretty much a stock truck except for the 285 BFG's.

Let us know the results so that those of us who have yet to make our final decission get to save or spend a few extra bucks.

I can get the Edge for a pretty good price here in Arizona, but if I can be swayed I would appreciate any and all information at this time since I have to make my choice before the next dune run next week.

Thanks

tabatasu, there are those that sing the E/J's praises and those that don't like them. They all have their +-'s. That being said I'll offer up what I have experienced and my rationale for going with the E/J w/attitude. :o:

First/foremost, the E/J w/attitude allows you to monitor boost, EGT's, engine temps, load%, etc. in addition to providing allison slippage detection/protection, defueling between shifts, and on-the-fly adjustment. These were important to me since my primary application will be for towing heavy. With other programmers you would need to have separate gauges installed that come with the E/J. All in all it was going to cost me about the same money, the others didn't offer the EGT or tranny protection though. Anyway that's what it came down to. So far I'm impressed, no turbo barking, etc.... :D There have been several that posted issues in very cold weather though.

I've only ran at levels 1 and 2 to protect the Ally, and I really couldn't tell that much of a difference between them, so I'm staying at level 1. ;) The LLY holds 5th gear much stronger, especially on grades, than before. Installation was simple and taking it out is easy enough for trips to the dealer for warranty work. I've not noticed any improvement in MPG's, then again it is hard to stay off the pedal with the extra power. :cool:

You might cruise through the trailering/hotshot forum to see what others are saying about towing with different programmers. Lots of good intel there. Later. JJ :)