PLEASE RESPOND!!!!!
New injector survey that includes a poll! I would like to get as many replies as possible.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!

01 Dmax

22000 New Pump

97000 New Injectors And Pump #2

2003
24,000 Miles
No Failure yet

2003

49,000 miles,
2 bad injectors.

I think we know from the other post that failure rates are between 25 and 30%. The fuel treatment is another good question, would like to know the results with filtration as well. Maybe another poll?

early '02 w/ '01 injectors

82,000+ miles

no injector or any other engine problems

Aug. build '01

Many early '01 resolutions OEM @ purchase (Airbox snorkle, flashes, single driveshaft)
BUT original injectors

86,000 miles with only the serpentine belt tensioner self-replaced

01 early build 92K no problems

What is the value of this poll? I think the manufacture year matters. There is no warranty extension on the 2003+ (yet) which suggests the failure rate might be less. If so, including those vehicles in your overall poll data will only dilute the actual failure rate.
With so many members, there could certainly be a data collection questionaire at the point of registration which could gather up specific details. Then, under profiles, one could go back and update that data after an injector failure, etc. Nick is a wiz and could probably do this (WAG) if he wanted, and it would probably be the best non-GM collection of the "facts" anywhere in cyberspace.
Just a thought...

What is the value of this poll? I think the manufacture year matters. There is no warranty extension on the 2003+ (yet) which suggests the failure rate might be less. If so, including those vehicles in your overall poll data will only dilute the actual failure rate.
With so many members, there could certainly be a data collection questionaire at the point of registration which could gather up specific details. Then, under profiles, one could go back and update that data after an injector failure, etc. Nick is a wiz and could probably do this (WAG) if he wanted, and it would probably be the best non-GM collection of the "facts" anywhere in cyberspace.
Just a thought...
Very well put, I couldn't agree more!!:)

I agree, but I'm not smart enough to say what data is important. All the history I 've been swimming thru has indicated it is a random problem. and all of you really love your trucks so the %25 to 30 should be pretty accurate. The guys that arent GM loyalists have all bought fords by now.
I think Chip data should be in the poll.
I drove an 02 with 25k with a chip and I have resisted temtation to keep from getting bit in the ass. Fricken night and day! I would love to chp my truck.

I will throw my two cents in here. I have been reading about the injector isssues for about a year. I believe that the cause(s) are very complex and are daunting for GM too!
Here is a list of simple causes I see with injectors:
1. Dirt in fuel.
2. Water in fuel.
3. Poor lubricity in fuel.
4. Poor design of injector.
5. Manufacturing issues with injector.
6. Poor PM on vehicle. (no one here though right)
7. Chips.
8. Other performance Mods.
9. Inadequate fuel filter design.
10. Fuel Additives.
11. Regional fuel issues.
12. Year of Manufacture.

I see this list as a start now start combining these together and see "interactions" like dirt in the fuel and lubricity or lubricity and water. One could go nuts over this. For the smart math guys out there, aren't some staticstical tools like orthongonal arrays or Taguchi method for sorting out multiple variables (I need help here)? I am sure GM has some folks working on this (warranty costs + reputation) but is is certainly complicated. I sure would like to finc out what the single cause is (if a single one exists). It does look random and across all build years. Additionally Ford and Chrysler would really like to know too!

So does anyone have a contact in GM for how they are working on this problem? I have seen some pretty impressive stuff on this forum and can't believe someone reading this forum doesn't know someone.

BTW I am old Ford guy and this is my first Chevy and I really like it, makes towing a breeze.....just my .02. Sorry for being so long winded.

Monkeywrench

The poll is a start....... This poll looks at mileage as a part of the matrices. I think the next pole will seek failures only with or with out filtration.... OR has that been done before. What I think is interesting is someone ALWAYS has a negative comment. Guess you can't please everyone......

It is a good start AR. Thanks. Later! Frank

back on top ):h

Please reply!

2003 with approx...12000 miles...no probs so far....knock on wood ;)

2003

64000 miles

no failures

2002
56000 miles
no problems with injectors
Filter changed every 10000 miles
Power Service in winter and Power Service Diesel Kleen in summer.
Truck is stock.

2003 duramax turbo, lt.
aprox 60000 miles
phoned gm canada last week, they told me they know about 2001 and 2002 models with injectors, so far not many complaints on 2003 + models, they put me on record so they say if the injectors go down?? warranty???

2003

64,000 miles

8 new injectors

2003 injectors at 37k

Factory filtration, used treatment "almost religiously" in the summer and always in the winter. Also running a program.

2001 with 35000 miles. No problems with injectors.

voted way to quick. My injectors and turbo went at the same time at 43000 miles with fuel treatment

01 73k no problem. dave

54000 kilometers and no injector problems to report. BTW I installed a pre-OEM RACOR RS445 R90S fuel filter (2 micron) and I also use Stanadyne Performance Formula in every fill-up.

29000km with no mods injectors still good. About 1000km now with the the BANKS setup everything still good. No fuel treatment, changed factory fuel filter every time i changed oil. Starting to think about secondary filtration though.

04 (built 11/03) 7500 km no problems; Nicktane from 5000 km

Back on top! ):h

37000 miles, no problems yet. No additives, pre-OEM Racor setup.

One comment on the poll, While it is a great start, one issue may be the that the polling population is biased. Personally, I would have not come across this site if I was not looking for answers to a problem to begin with. I feel 20% failure rate may be high (no way to tell for sure) and that the actual failure rate is lower. There are thousands of trucks in service and only replies from a couple hundred people, most (if not all) of whom are regulars on this site.

Don't take it the wrong way, it is a good survey, just don't take it as the definitive answer.

My $0.02

Greg

O1 Dmax, 108k no problems:ro)

Back to Top

I disagree that most members come here only in search of fixes for broken trucks. For example, I haven't had a major problem until just last week but have been a member of diesel forums for over three years. During those three years the majority of discussion and debate has mostly centered on the way to best maintain and modify the trucks. And there have been some real doozies... hehe...

BTW I also voted in the negative (no problems under 50,000) too soon. The day after I learned my injector(s) were shot and are now being replaced.

So please subtract one vote from "no failure under 50,000" and add a vote to: "failed under 50,000."

I disagree that most members come here only in search of fixes for broken trucks. For example, I haven't had a major problem until just last week but have been a member of diesel forums for over three years. During those three years the majority of discussion and debate has mostly centered on the way to best maintain and modify the trucks. And there have been some real doozies... hehe...

BTW I also voted in the negative (no problems under 50,000) too soon. The day after I learned my injector(s) were shot and are now being replaced.

So please subtract one vote from "no failure under 50,000" and add a vote to: "failed under 50,000."

Mr X - Sorry to hear about your truck, hopefully you will not be without your truck for very long. The stealer kept mine for 52 days! Good luck! I discovered this site to educate myself on this power plant when I bought my truck. I knew about the injector issues but wanted to learn more about the drive train. Good place to vent the stealer experiences. My truck now runs great and so far is the best vehicle I have EVER used to tow with. There have been poll's before looking at injector failures. This one by no way reflects the actual failure ratio but it is very interesting the small numbers of failures that are being recorded.

Mr X - Also sorry to hear about your truck. Perhaps my post was misleading. I personally came across this site by searching for answers to questions I had about the truck. Now whether or not people come here to look for solutions to problems or just enjoy the site, I think it is reasonable to assume that people on the site have a great deal of interest in their rigs, possibly more than the over all duramax owner population. I didn't mean to imply and rock solid conclusion, I just wanted to inidicate that the survey may be different if, for example, every one who has owned a duramax was to reply. But then again, who knows?

Greg

I see what you mean. I guess any problem incidence poll will be skewed a little towards the high side by those who discovered this site while searching for a fix. In fact they may have gotten a search hit right into the actual poll thread.

socaldiesel and his Service Writer at Nicholas Chevy, Garden Grove CA, provided excellent service replacing my injectors. After all of these injector threads mentioning weeks of vehicle sideline time, I had been dreading when my truck's injectors would finally need replacing. Mostly I was worried about submitting my truck for service to some dealer whose techs may not be diesel qualified and would be winging it on this complex job.

But these guys were very confidence inspiring and made it virtually painless. It went in mid-afternoon on the 25th and was back out early afternoon on the 28th.

When I first brought it in socaldiesel showed me the Tech 25 diagnosis. Later I watched him tear down the engine to replace the passenger side injectors.

In contrast, the service at most other delaers around here is very impersonal and there is no way to get in to speak with the techs about the problems, no less actually watch the diagnostics and service work.

I used to be a mechanic at a service station and at a machine shop at a factory and could tell by watching socaldiesel's hands that he really knew his stuff on these engines. Not a single wasted motion or hesitation from one step to the next, bang, bang, bang, like nothing flat, very professional.

In total it was very confidence inspiring that my truck was in good hands and I left there knowing that the job was done right.

Also confidence inspiring was the fact that the replacement injectors had been modified from the originals. socaldiesel showed me where the little ball seat was recessed further back into the injector body than the origianls.

Both he and the Service writer assured me that due to the upgraded injectors this would be the final fix for the injectors. The Service writer noted that the Duramax/Allison combo was, otherwise, a very strong and tight driveline and that once this fix was completed, it should be good to go, for good.

Bump!

78,000 miles and no problems

Bump

Well the results look about the same as the other question on failure rates, about 25% of owners see a failure. Comparing the below 50,000 miles, same rate of failure as the above 50,000 miles, 25%. The fuel treatment users failure rate is 1/5th the non fuel treatment failure rate but I would guess that is because 1/5th the number of owners use fuel treatment. Would be interesting to see what the failure rate comparison with extra filtration would look like.

Bump :Nothing_f

04 LLY 2 Injectors @ 10000Km

There is a similar poll at TDR on injector failures on the 03 and up CR Cummins and 13% had an injector replaced.

http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119501&page=2&pp=15

No additives, lots of towing. Build date of 11-01. Not a single problem. 54K miles

mtomac! Looks like the failure rates are the same in the two polls..... Cummins is using Bosch injectors. Very interesting, Thanks!

BUMP!! One last time

66,000 and no engine complaints....Allison is a different story.

no failure..23k

First injector has gone ... 35,600 kilometres - Feb 21 appt to replace

2003 Silverado 3500 DRW w/ Allison

Bam,
What did you first notice when one injector went?

11-00 Build date. 50K plus miles original injectors!

how much does it cost to replace the injectors?

9100 miles 3 injectors bad. Dealer says it was electronic not caused by bad or dirty fuel.

42k and none yet......

'04 LB7 engine with 22,000 miles..... no injector problems.....just speedometer sticking at 30 mph and right/rear door "door ajar" warning going off when it rains real hard. Thats about all the problems I am having.


LATER!

can I change my vote from no problems under 50,000 to problems under 50,000?):h

Mine failed at 31,000 miles. Would not start!
All injectors were replaced.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but what could the weather play in this problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest and it very rarely gets below 30. I purchased the truck used but with 40K on a '03 DMAX I have had no problems yet (crossing my fingers)!

Have 2003 2500HD Duramax we bought in June `03 I believe it has an April 03 build date. We put many miles on this truck doing Search and Rescue missions or trainings and by April `04 with (only) 23K miles, we noticed weaker performance and lower fuel mileage. Our “regular” GM Dealer found no problems when queried during service requests.

Conditions worsen by Sept `04 so I really complained about “drivability concerns” and they then found that the injectors were faulty at only 34655 miles. I do not know how many injectors were actually bad, but they replaced all eight so the truck was down for 15 days.

As a note, the fuel filter had been replaced 2 times in that 16-month period.
No chips, no modifications except K&N air filter, no additives, mostly Chevron, Conoco, or Flying J diesel at interstate stops. Fuel only from Western states of AZ, UT, WY, ID, MT, CO, OR

Added Note: We picked up the truck on Tuesday, September 28th and only 2 days and 200 miles later, the number 8 intake valve stem failed and dropped the head of the valve into the cylinder breaking an exhaust valve, cracking the piston, bending a pushrod, ruining the head and the engine block. Luckily, the truck was only one block from another dealer, Young’s Chevrolet in Layton, Utah when this happened. The service advisor, Chad Smith, diesel mechanic “Red” and his crew got the OK from GM to get us another engine and after being treated like “Royalty” we were back on the road by October 15th.

Yet the story continues…

Sorry for the late reply. My first indication I had trouble was that my truck started to ping. It sounded like a spark knock. The best analogy I can give is that it sounded like my 1998 Dodge 1500 5.9 Litre with standard unleaded, driving up a hill under load. That thing pinged and rattled like a busted chainsaw, and Dodge said it was "normal and not harmful to the engine" ...

But anyway, I went into the dealer who test drove my truck with me. The guy wasn't sure what he was hearing, but he hooked my truck up to diagnostics and for sure my # 7 injector was failing. It hadnt presented a "driveability" problem yet, I even drove the truck to Vancouver and back ( 1500 kms ) after the diagnosis, before I had it replaced today.

But she sure sounds better tonite -after they took replaced it. :o:

17k and none yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grd: