does any body know of a permanant lb7 injector fix so we dont have to put the same factory (bad) injectors back in it

does any body know of a permanant lb7 injector fix so we dont have to put the same factory (bad) injectors back in it

not being mean but the answer to that question is obviously...no

If you could figure that out, youd make big bucks.

none of the after market injectors provide better protection or hold up better

only one i can think of is to machine a set of heads for an LB7 to accept LLY injectors.

I thought the only diff on the LLY was that they are easier to get to but the guts were teh same.

no?

jb

SOMEBODY! Needs to make some LB7 injector bodys out of somthing like, i dont know, Billet Chrom-moly! They'ed make a killin on them! Dosn't matter where they come from, they all have these crap cast Bosch bodys! I swear, I have a few more fail on me and I'm taking CAD and redesignin some and have my Uncle CNC'em out! LOL! I keep blowin them and getin diesel in the oil, they keep pushing the little ball out of it's seat. I dont know why that couldn't be welded in there!

this is the only thing deterring me from getting an LB7 anytime soon.

SOMEBODY! Needs to make some LB7 injector bodys out of somthing like, i dont know, Billet Chrom-moly! GM was testing some injectors that appeared to be made of a different material - don't know if they ever made it to the shelf though.

the best head, imo, would have the same expantion rate of the block. Since its an alum head on a grey iron block it shears the head gasket a little everytime it gets warm/cold. And to accept the LLY injectors. Anyone want to retire? Invent this perfect head.

Does anybody have pictures of injectors that have failed? ones showing cracks, or a dissembled one showing ball and seat failures. The internal failures are ones that I would like to see but most are just handed over to the dealer so nobody probably ever see's whats happening. What failure would cause the high return fuel flow rates or ones that just smoke a little more until warmed up?

Does anybody have pictures of injectors that have failed? ones showing cracks, or a dissembled one showing ball and seat failures. The internal failures are ones that I would like to see but most are just handed over to the dealer so nobody probably ever see's whats happening. What failure would cause the high return fuel flow rates or ones that just smoke a little more until warmed up?

Just pulled this a day ago, entire removal pics at the very end of the thread. Everone i,ve trashed pushes the little ball out ou the body, theres a comparo of good and bad there!:eek:

Where is that thread that shows these removal pics?
My guess is that it's a materials choice for manufacturing the injectors. I'll bet the material is too thin, and a hairline crack caused the fuel to leak out , hopefully into the valve cover which then drains the fuel into the pan. That is the 'safe' failure mode. The bad one is when the injector won't shut off and washes down the cylinder. That can cause cylinder wear, hydro lock, pre ignition/detonation that hammers the piston.

With all things like this, it is primarily ruled by two things : Bankers and Lawyers. The money people cheap out and use the low cost parts to shave off a dime. The lawyers constantly fight over patent issues. Patents, believe it or not, basically determine how things are built these days. Sad but true!
-Les ( with a leaking injector on truck purchased 2 weeks ago :( )

Where is that thread that shows these removal pics?
My guess is that it's a materials choice for manufacturing the injectors. I'll bet the material is too thin, and a hairline crack caused the fuel to leak out , hopefully into the valve cover which then drains the fuel into the pan. That is the 'safe' failure mode. The bad one is when the injector won't shut off and washes down the cylinder. That can cause cylinder wear, hydro lock, pre ignition/detonation that hammers the piston.

With all things like this, it is primarily ruled by two things : Bankers and Lawyers. The money people cheap out and use the low cost parts to shave off a dime. The lawyers constantly fight over patent issues. Patents, believe it or not, basically determine how things are built these days. Sad but true!
-Les ( with a leaking injector on truck purchased 2 weeks ago :( )

crap! sorry! http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183224

Here is the short and skinny. I was informed late last month (during an injector swap in my truck) that the different types of injectors that were tested by GM and their partners (Isuzu and Bosch) provided good data for the ongoing service campaign, but will not be released through GM parts. GM and partners (Bosch) have made 2 modifications (documented) to the injector design from original and has deemed the current incarnation of this injector adequate.

That is GM's solution apparently. Will it be a permanent solution? Who can say, but it probably will be the only solution we ever see. The production and design cost combined with a "limited" customer base dictates that we will probably not see a complete replacement unit of new design come into the marketplace.

Many failure causes have been theorized, two main modes of premature failure have emerged, but I am of the thought that a waveform analysis of the power to the injectors done over long term might yield some interesting results. Having been through the mill on theseinjectors personally, and having read volumes of information, I feel very strongly that we are loooking at the effect of a problem on a weak point (injector bodies), and not the root cause.

Good luck to all on this, and hope GM takes care of us under policy/warranty just THAT much longer.

i am on my second set at 107,000

My truck had injectors swapped 200 miles ago, previous owner/dealer. I'll see what happens next week, but any time I take a vehicle to a dealer, It's like a 50% chance they screw something else up.
Any good dealers in So. Cal , Burbank area ?

Any good dealers in So. Cal , Burbank area ?

Rydell in Van Nuys(GMC) or Northridge(Chevy)

oddplanes, so what you're saying the ones going through the current channels will likely be the only version for us LB7 guys?

Just that I've got one bad one right now, but it's not causing any major issue as of yet so I'm waiting for it to cause the smoke problem on a consistent basis.

does any body know of a permanant lb7 injector fix so we dont have to put the same factory (bad) injectors back in it

Buy a Dodge! :D Just kidding!! No fix that I know of!!

Just pulled this a day ago, entire removal pics at the very end of the thread. Everone i,ve trashed pushes the little ball out ou the body, theres a comparo of good and bad there!:eek:

So what happens when that little ball is pushed out? Does it leak fuel into the oil or does it cause high return fuel rates, or balance rate out of spec? Is it just a rubber ball?

So what happens when that little ball is pushed out? Does it leak fuel into the oil or does it cause high return fuel rates, or balance rate out of spec? Is it just a rubber ball?

Ya, fuel in the oil, High positive balence rate (trying to add fuel), this time on cyl#2 balence was 9.0-13.0 mm3:eek: and set a misfire code on that cyl when i floored it once! Spec is +-4.0mm3 so it was really bad! Also run's slightly more rough, I can hear it too, sounds a little lean somtimes too when driving, like combustion/timing rattle. No smoke, never had one fail in that manner. The "ball" is steel, im assuming the hole which its pressed into is tapered, so press fit is how it seals. I don't know why these keep working loose on me, im not running fuel psi any higher than stock, prob a little lower cause the inj. nozzles. I'm seriously thinkin of TIGing the ball in the hole shut! I had one fail a while ago an fuel was coming out of a drilled passage below the inlet fitting, well i was hard for $ so i thought i'd try to weld it shut for a temporay fix till i got a new one. What do i have to lose, it F-ed up anyway and i'm still gonna get one, so i welded it and it held up fine! Why have mine all failed like this? Dunno. I still think is just a crap design!:mad:

What tools do you need to chack the balance rate on the injectors? I had mine changed, andI have this rattle you talk about. Is this something I need to worry about? The dealer says they are in spec.
Thanks,
HEEP

Here is the short and skinny. I was informed late last month (during an injector swap in my truck) that the different types of injectors that were tested by GM and their partners (Isuzu and Bosch) provided good data for the ongoing service campaign, but will not be released through GM parts. GM and partners (Bosch) have made 2 modifications (documented) to the injector design from original and has deemed the current incarnation of this injector adequate.

That is GM's solution apparently. Will it be a permanent solution? Who can say, but it probably will be the only solution we ever see. The production and design cost combined with a "limited" customer base dictates that we will probably not see a complete replacement unit of new design come into the marketplace.

Many failure causes have been theorized, two main modes of premature failure have emerged, but I am of the thought that a waveform analysis of the power to the injectors done over long term might yield some interesting results. Having been through the mill on theseinjectors personally, and having read volumes of information, I feel very strongly that we are loooking at the effect of a problem on a weak point (injector bodies), and not the root cause.

Good luck to all on this, and hope GM takes care of us under policy/warranty just THAT much longer.

This is as irritating as it is enlightening. It's quite obvious that there just content to let warratnies run out then pull the plug on the whole issue. It would seem as though that there would be a vested interest in fixing the issue even if for no other reason then to hold down the cost of repeat warranty claims. I guess the most likely solution to the issue is to trade out of the truck at the end of the warranty period or get darn good at swapping injectors in your garage! :banghead: I love my truck but this crap is ridicoulous.

Oddplanes-- Thanks for all of your hard work and persiverance on this issue. ;)

There are many ways to look at GM's position. Here are a couple.

If GM fixed the injectors now so that they would last 300,000K miles (for conversation here), then the injectors would likely be replaced one time in the truck (independent of who pays for it). This costs GM some NRE costs but they would end up with satified customers. This could save them some warranty costs, eventually.

If they don't fix the injectors, they will be replaced every 80,000K miles (an average for conversation here). Eventually, the truck is seven years old (or has 200,000K miles) and is out of warranty. Now GM sells a lot of injectors for the remaining life of the vehicle. All ends of the business make money on this approach (GM parts distribution, dealer, etc). GM does not need to spend NRE dollars, makes money on parts, but ends up with unhappy customers. As suggested above, some customers end up selling their vehicles, some adapt to changing the injectors themselves, while others end up paying the dealer a lot of money because GM could not (or refused) to resolve a design issue. GM being a $$$ driven company appears to have chosen this path.

To bad they cannot communicate the state of the current injector with the customers to let them know what they have done to resolve this issue.

I really like my lb7 and I'm out of injector warranty as of December. I'm on my second set for almost two years/ 10 K miles and I think a couple are on they're way out again. I'm ready to change them myself but I'm sure as hell not gonna put ones in that could fail in another year, and I can't afford to upgrade to a lbz. I'm sure there's many on here in the same boat; planning on keeping there trucks for a long time. So WTF, cant somebody besides GM take the ball on this one and make a bulletproof injector body or fix the possible drive voltage issue, or adapt in a different injector? And make a good bit of money doing it! Somebody's gotta be working on something! There's how many hundred of thousands LB7's out there! Just had to put that out there.

There are many ways to look at GM's position. Here are a couple.

If GM fixed the injectors now so that they would last 300,000K miles (for conversation here), then the injectors would likely be replaced one time in the truck (independent of who pays for it). This costs GM some NRE costs but they would end up with satified customers. This could save them some warranty costs, eventually.

If they don't fix the injectors, they will be replaced every 80,000K miles (an average for conversation here). Eventually, the truck is seven years old (or has 200,000K miles) and is out of warranty. Now GM sells a lot of injectors for the remaining life of the vehicle. All ends of the business make money on this approach (GM parts distribution, dealer, etc). GM does not need to spend NRE dollars, makes money on parts, but ends up with unhappy customers. As suggested above, some customers end up selling their vehicles, some adapt to changing the injectors themselves, while others end up paying the dealer a lot of money because GM could not (or refused) to resolve a design issue. GM being a $$$ driven company appears to have chosen this path.

To bad they cannot communicate the state of the current injector with the customers to let them know what they have done to resolve this issue.

the one you forgot to mention is upset customers both 2nd, 3rd owners and new owners that kept them with injector issues. Guess what a non-fix for injectors will just more fuel to the fire that the japanese build better vehicles. I doubt that GM is abandoning the LB7 injector, but looking for a cost effective way to take care of it(extended warranty). After that it's just time which wears on everything.

Well heres my thoughts, I plan on having my truck til i die. So with that being said, and for those of us who will hold on to there rig for a while we have a few options.

1. Learn to do injectors ourselves or pay the dealer. (this will run you what, a weekend to $4000 depending)
2. Put an lly or lbz in, new or used (god only knows the $$) but then again, For you high mileage guys, this could work
3. Sit around and pray for the aftermarket to step in, and fix this.
4.)Give up, and sale your baby buy a lly, lbz or lmm. and for me somehow learn to love the angry cat eye look.

oh and GM won't fix this, because you touch yourself at night.

OK I have a question.
What is the difference between the LB7 injector and say a Cummins injector or (God Forbid) A ford injector?
Is it the threads? The diameters? Voltage maybe.

What I am getting to is this.
With the aftermarket heads out there why cant one be machined to accept a better injector?

i looked at rockauto's site and why is there 2 injectors,one by a/c for 277,and 1 by standard for 522??? whats the diff,or am i stupid,and maybe needing injectors,and paranoid?

Exactly. Even if you can change them yourself the injectors themselves ain't cheap, especially if you have to do it a few times in your trucks life.

Theres one "ok" but expensive option that is gonna happen if aftermarket dosn't step in...
Ill put LLY heads on this sucker, thata happen before i consider sellin, unless i find a helluva deal. The ole LB7 is a tough SOB! I'm cranking the piss outta mine and LB7 is the best on to do it to. Crap gives up sooner on the newer engines. Mostly pistions.

If you have an LB7, only LB7 injectors fit, plane and simple. No furd, or dodge or anything else. I sopose u could spend 10K and have some custom heads made that use somthing elses injector design. Dunno bout you guys, i dont have that kind of money layin around! No aftermarket heads are made yet. So unless Bosch & GM steps up, its un to the aftermarket to save us. Other wise were screwed. I had one go a year ago and i reassembled it with the V/C's off so i could run it and show the stealer the fuel stream coming out of the injector body (still under special policy). And i was denied cause my mods (only a few things at the time) when clearly that was a faliure of there POS injector! That was my last dealer visit, NOT EVER GOIN BACK AGAIN! Wasted $120+ towing it there to get bent over! Since then, NOBODY touches my truck but me!

I sugjest we all raise hell till we get an injector that works.

Theres one "ok" but expensive option that is gonna happen if aftermarket dosn't step in...
Ill put LLY heads on this sucker, thata happen before i consider sellin, unless i find a helluva deal.

Thats what I did.;)

OK Dumb question..
Are the LLY injectors better than ours?
Maybe the LLY heads are a viable option. Not sure about the cost, or how difficult it would be to do.

They rarely fail, thats why there better! Prob a costly conversion, havent checked, if i do it, Socal stage2's are the replacment, How bout it Guy, will u trade LB7 heads for LLY's?

I've got a couple LLY's over 200,000 miles with no injector replacements yet. One over 300,000 miles and only one injector changed and it was defective when new.

I also don't think the entire issue is the injectors themselves. I think part of it is the fact that they are tucked inside the engine.

As far as doing the swap;

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135428

THANKS RICK, The Gods truth is I remember reading when you posted about changing the heads over and I was just trying to figure out how to find your posting.Thanks again Rick, you are well appreciated here!!!!!

To correct myself I said heads when in fact it was a change-over to from a lb7 to a lly