On my "Wacky Oil Analysis" thread a supporting vendor (LCD) selling Lube Control Distributors products has been promoting his products. I was wondering if anyone has knowledge or experience with these products?

The two primary products include an "Oil Additive" and a "Fuel Additive". Both additives are compatible with diesel OR gasoline engines. The Oil Additive is used to break down and disolve varnish and soot deposits, etc.... The fuel additive cleand injectors and improves lubricity.

LCD and I got into a debate on the aforementioned thread, but it is out of my league. I have been told NEVER to add anything to the oil, and I like the fuel additive I am using (Primrose). But I don't have time to debate this. In addition, I am poorly equipped to discuss it (I have little knowledge on the subject).

I am sure LCD will be here soon to state his case and promote his products. Let's hear what he has to say. SPICER

SPICER, first off I am enjoying this friendly debate, keeps me sharp!

Ok, here is my side. LC and FP have been around since the 1950's used in school districts, local governemt vehicles, ect. Well respected Terry Dyson of Dyson Analysis tested these products (independently) and came away very impressed stating in 30 years of oil analysis he has never seen products with the unique chemistry of these 2. There ability to emulsify carbon and varnish is unique as it turns this carbon into collodial graphite (lubricant type susbstance) and taken through combustion.

LC keeps oils in grade much longer than without. LC's antioxidant abilities are it's strength along with it's ability to dissolve carbon (not break it into pieces).

FP cleans entire fuel system, adds lubricity to fuel, scavenges water from fuel, increases fuels potential energy.

I am not here to promote junk or snake oil. I am here as a serious vendor with a serious product.

Here are some links of INDEPENDENT UOA's, Dyno test showing a HP increase of 17, Dyson Analysis report, and also various testimonials. Also are some links to www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com) the best place on the net to discuss oils and lubrication. If our products were snake oil the members here would have chewed us up and spit us out.

Please read and learn about the best products available for your engine.

Lab reports, UOA's, testimonials (http://lubecontrol.softvu.com/cn/Relay/Relay2/preview_launch.asp?p_draftId=8bfae0819ebb4372996b7 bbeb07ffdd7)



Threads from BITOG

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000311#000002

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002042#000003

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000106#000002

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001303#000000

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000965#000010


Other sites:

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2003Drivetrain&Number=2030319&Forum=,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=4&Limit=25&Main=2030319&Search=true&where=&Name=39242&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2030319

So when I put 15k on my truck and the oil analysis is well within specs how is useing your product going to keep my oil "in grade longer " ? Its already in grade when I drain it. Will it filter out sand and other abrasives ? I don't know about everyone else but I take care of my truck better than a school bus. Not exactly a glowing reccomendation as I think we all know what idiots government officials are that purchase a lot of this stuff. So much for my tax dollars hard at work. In regards to a hp gain I just don't believe it. Period. After being on theese forums I have seen a lot of people do a lot of crazy azz things to their trucks, and yes I fell for the K&N rubbish as well. From now on I for one think simplicity is the key. If you NEED a additive you need to change your oil or fix the real problem. If you want to sell a fuel additive here I suggest you get a bit more technical and avoid useing catchy sales pitches like "it scavanges water"....What ever that's supposed to mean. -:t

Man, you guys are rough. Scavanges = removes. Not sure why you do not believe the HP increase. It is documented right there. It seems no matter how much testing/technical info we provide it is not enough.

You need LC to keep carbon and varnish from forming in your oil due to oxidaton. Why change your oil at 15k? Keep running it longer with LC.

You show you use FPPF. What convinced you to use it? Where is some good hard data for that product? FPPF is no competition for Fuel Power (FP60).


Basically what I am seeing is y'all want more data. I provide and you don't believe it.

What is the requirements as far as time etc for the HP gaine to become apparent? In other words can I dyno same day and see results?

I can dyno before and after exhaust and show gains. I can easily validate any consistent HP/TQ trend with my Superflow, so if it's there I can find it...

Just remember that at lot of us here, can be pretty simple and apply the KISS method, keep it simple stupid. That said, we are in the real world using these trucks day in and day out in tough environments, not some lab somewhere. When you have hundreds or thousands of us using the same products and they are working, no matter which line of thought or theory you subscribe to, and it's working for you, change does not/will not always come easy. Also, way to many snakeoil salesmen around too. Hopefully, you will get one person here who will try/test the stuff, see an improvement, and come back here and state what they have found. Then, one by one, you may get some converts to the product. Go easy, and it will come.

Just remember that at lot of us here, can be pretty simple and apply the KISS method, keep it simple stupid. That said, we are in the real world using these trucks day in and day out in tough environments, not some lab somewhere. When you have hundreds or thousands of us using the same products and they are working, no matter which line of thought or theory you subscribe to, and it's working for you, change does not/will not always come easy. Also, way to many snakeoil salesmen around too. Hopefully, you will get one person here who will try/test the stuff, see an improvement, and come back here and state what they have found. Then, one by one, you may get some converts to the product. Go easy, and it will come.


And with that said; send Me some and I will try it :ro) ):h ):h

Gearhead, no offense, but I think Kennedy is the one who should get the first test product, he has the dyno to prove the claims. ):h ):h :eek:

Or one of the forum resident oil/lube experts, like George Morrison.

What is the requirements as far as time etc for the HP gaine to become apparent? In other words can I dyno same day and see results?

I can dyno before and after exhaust and show gains. I can easily validate any consistent HP/TQ trend with my Superflow, so if it's there I can find it... Kennedy,

Thanks for joining the discussions. This particular Dyno test was after 1000 miles on the 2 products.

Call Earl Kemp owner of Kemp trucking to discuss the products further if you'd like. Also, I'll send you a gallon of each if you have the equipment to test.

Here's Earl's letter:
KEMP TRUCKING
Leased to Watkins Motor Lines
3629 Park Ridge Drive ~ Grand Prairie, Texas 75052
972-263-8430

June 2001

Lube-Control and To Whom It May Concern:

I am the owner of an International 235 Cummings. I, as well as 17 other owner/operators which are all leased to Watkins, are using Lube-Control 20 and Lube-Control FP60 60. I cannot say enough about these two products! They deliver what they promise! They CAN make an engine run smoother!

Let me explain. When I was approached to try Lube-Control 20 (oil) and Lube-Control FP60 60 (fuel) I had doubts. Another product. Another promise of performance. But this time I had results! And what wonderful results they were!

The results from the Dyno-Test at Cummings on Irving Boulevard in Dallas were tremendous. Before these products were put in my unit the power was down, fuel mileage was down, and it was using oil. After the Lube-Control products were added we re-tested on Dyno after 1,000 miles. My power has increased, my fuel mileage increased by 1/2 mile or better, and the usage of oil has been cut in half in only two weeks. I now have 18,000 miles on the oil and will have the oil analyzed by DARR.

I just bought 12 gallons of Lube-Control products which I will continue using in my tractor as well as my personal vehicles.

Anyone seeking to improve their fleet performance, please feel free to contact me.

Earl Kemp
Owner

If Kennedy dyno's it, tests it, and approves it, I will buy it.

Kennedy.....get me your address and it's on it's way! jeff@lubecontrol.com

I'm with Rick on this one, if we get Kennedy and Morrison to back it up.

It's on his website at www.kennedydiesel.com

Man, you guys are rough. Scavanges = removes. Not sure why you do not believe the HP increase. It is documented right there. It seems no matter how much testing/technical info we provide it is not enough.

You need LC to keep carbon and varnish from forming in your oil due to oxidaton. Why change your oil at 15k? Keep running it longer with LC.

You show you use FPPF. What convinced you to use it? Where is some good hard data for that product? FPPF is no competition for Fuel Power (FP60).


Basically what I am seeing is y'all want more data. I provide and you don't believe it.
If you want to play in this game you's better have big shoulders. Firstly I haven't seen a shred of reliable independent data let alone "more data". A single letter dated years ago from a chap who could be your Brother in law as far as I know ? Who was admittedly having problems with his truck ? Followed by testing a month later is good for a laugh but that's about it. Could have easily been dyno error, fuel change, atmosphere etc.
In regards to running my oil 15k I notice you just skimmed over my question in that typical snake oil salesman manner. I drain at 15 and typically at 10k because of the dirt particules and impurities that my oil may contain from normal driveing. No additive is going to take those out and stop abrasion. So additional additives at a additional expense is like whizzin straight into the wind. Again My tests don't show any excess carbon or oxidation so I fail to see what you can do for me except lighten my wallet.
In regards to your mystery product being better than FPPF ......LOL , good luck proveing that one. Maybe you should tell us if your product contains alcahol and is a emulsifyer....or is that a snake oil trade secret ?

BlueMaxxxx....take it easy. I have been dealing with skeptics for awhile now. I does not bother me one bit. I know these products work and no matter how much independent data I bring forth you'll claim I am related to whomever did the test! Why is the dyno not independent? Why is the Dyson Analysis not independent?

If Kennedy test them and has good results will that mean we are related and trying to scam someone?

LC will keep your oil cleaner for longer periods, can't say it any clearer than that.

Check this link out! Kennedy made it on BITOG! http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002466#000000

I'm certain that with claims like this and avoiding any direct answears that you have indeed been dealing with skeptics. ):h

On edit; I never said your tests weren't independent. In fact their a wee bit tooooo independent. I said they weren't reliable. A dyno test 1,000 miles after the first one has so many variables that the 7 % gain is questionable. If your concearned about integrity I would think you would have to come the same conclusion. Why do you have to rely on a customer to do your testing ? Do you not have any testing data of your own ? In regards to the oil analysis it's a totally moot point. Any of the normally accepted oils here have additive packages that will outlive the drain interval anyhow.
I'd still like to know if your DFA contains alcahol and is a emulsifyer or not. I'll give you a wee bit of a clue here. Wer'e looking for real data not your humble opinion that your products are great. I'll be waiting for those answears unless your unwilling or unable to give them.
I have just one final thought for you. JK and the other vendors here have all been asked similar questions and provide fast accurate reliable and verifyable data.

So then is it a de-emulsifyer the same as Stanadyne ? Or is there no specefic water addive ?

The FP60 product does not harm any fuel system gas or diesel it is used in.


FP60 does not contain alcohol, nor does it contribute to damaging fuel system erosion from emulsified water.

Kennedy will be receiving a gallon of each to test out.
Guess I'll have to call Otis to be sure, but based on my take on what I read on the web site, it is not demulsifying water, it's emulsifying and passing through:

FP60 increases combustion efficiency, lubricates fuel pumps and injectors, cleans the fuel system, and increases mileage. It scavenges water and moisture from the fuel system as well so the resulting mix can be burned in the combustion chamber. Combustion chambers can be cleaned using FP60.

Kennedy, you are correct, FP60 passes water through and helps it burn very effectively.

LCD, how much water will one treatment of your emulsifier type additive remove from a 34 gallon tank of diesel fuel?

FP60 does not contain alcohol, nor does it contribute to damaging fuel system erosion from emulsified water.

Guess I'll have to call Otis to be sure, but based on my take on what I read on the web site, it is not demulsifying water, it's emulsifying and passing through

Kennedy, you are correct, FP60 passes water through and helps it burn very effectively.
LCD, Any reason for the contradiction in the above statements? First you say emulsification is bad, then Kennedy says your product appears to emulsify, then you agree that your product emulsifies and speak of it as a good thing. :confused:

):h ):h ):h

Just add a bit of water to the additive to test it's abilities to deal with it. Shake it up and it either goes clear, makes fish eggs, or a cloudy mess. Then you leave it sit and see if it seperates, or discolors.

Read what I wrote people!!!! I never said emulsification was bad! I said it does not contribute to damaging fuel system erosion from emulsified water. I NEVER said it did not emulsify it. The way FP works will not contribute to fuel system erosion when emulsifying water.

No contradicton made. Read carefully!

I did read what you wrote, in fact I put it in the quote.It implies that emuslification of the water can be damaging to the fuel system, it says nothing about method of emulsification being good or bad. Just a simple question that was answered in volumes about customer service. If a simple question from a potential customer draws that kind of response it definitely makes product selection much easier.

Hound, when words are put in my mouth that I never stated 'First you say emulsification is bad' it gets frustrating. I never meant to imply emulsification is bad. I cannot understand why someone would think I would imply that when we are all aware emulsification is a good thing especially in diesel fuel which tends to have more moisture.

I apologize if my answer came across wrong. After being beaten down since we became a supporting vendor it wears on you. We joined to have intellegent discussion and offer a great, proven product. We've have been asked for independent data and then provide it and then are told it's 'too independent' and that we are probably related to the person doing the test.

Instead of everyone judging a product before they know anything about it why not read and learn first? We did not earn the respect on BITOG for being snake oil.

Three recent threads show we are who we say and we bring a top quality product.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002857

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002850

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002854

LCD, how much water will one treatment of your emulsifier type additive remove from a 34 gallon tank of diesel fuel?
I've asked this question of most additivbe manufactures or thier rep's and not one has answered. I beginning to think maybe most addative ads are a little on the snake oil show side.

I for one will never use the LCD products.

Last spring I asked one simple question;".. does FP contain alcohol". My reply was "LC's policy that this proprietary mix is never disclosed". When I replied that I'm not interested in knowing their proprietary mix, only one component of the proprietary mix; my reply was "...they WILL NOT detect any alcohols from FP, LC with a simple fuel test". Perhaps something other than a "simple" fuel test would provide different results.

antt, we discussed the issue further with the manufactuer of FP and they advised no alcohols.

We hope you change your mind as these products are on a level above any others available.

Bill, I have a call into the manufactuer for an answer to your question.

Tough question as the amount of water can vary from 1 tanks of fuel to the next and dependent on when you fill up. If you leave your tank half empty or less after running it for a good amount of time you will get more moisture in your tank. The City of Highland Village, TX advises all their trucks to fill up in the evening (they add FP60 to their storage tanks) to help minimize how much moisture condinsates in the tank.

Did Kennedy's suggestion of adding water to FP60:

Without
http://www3.freepichosting.com/Thumbs/421546640/28/600/450.jpg


With water added:

http://www3.freepichosting.com/Thumbs/421546640/30/600/450.jpg

How much water did you add in proportion to the amount of additive?

about 1 oz of additive with a teaspoon of water. Very unscientific.

Kennedy, give Odis a call. He has left you a couple of messages to talk about the product and the test you will be running.

He is great to talk with!

I've asked this question of most additivbe manufactures or thier rep's and not one has answered. I beginning to think maybe most addative ads are a little on the snake oil show side.
Bill, you might have noticed that I have asked LCD this question twice without answear. In regards to others I believe Stanadyne, FPPF, Primrose and Power service all say there is no alcahol in their products on their respective web sites.

BlueMaxx, you never asked Bill's question about how much water is removed in a 34 gallon tank? I answered your question in regards to alcohol many post ago. Please re-read.

We are getting an answer for Bill, but as I mentioned before there are many factors in determing this if it can, infact, be determined.

Each tank of fuel may have different amounts of water in it to start with plus other various factors.

Bill, you might have noticed that I have asked LCD this question twice without answear. In regards to others I believe Stanadyne, FPPF, Primrose and Power service all say there is no alcahol in their products on their respective web sites.

Sorry, but I didn't see and still don't see where you asked the question I did. I have talked to a petroleum engineer and he feels there isn't very much of the additive that emulsifies the water in say , 7-8 ounes of the fuel additive and it probaly won't emulsify very much water, maybe just what is normaly in clean fuel. in the old days a couple times I picked up a gallon or more of water in one fill up. Now with fiberglass tanks, in line pump filters and the continual use of fuel, the tanks are less likely to pick up much water. My most recent expieence was at a local discount station that had a vent pipe crack below ground level and during hevy rains, water got thru that crack into the underground tank. No amount of additive would have helped me then.
Personaly, I think the only fix we will ever see is adrain petcock in the fuel tank and a water detector sensor in the filter to tell us water is there so we can drain it. I had that set up on my OLDs 98 Diesel with GM's converted 350. Back then water was expected frequently and I puy a RACOR seperator/Filter on the car before its first fill up. In the next three years I had several alerts of water in the seperator and drained the botom of the tank and line immediately.

Blue max, Kennedy amd LCD

Please conact me at captrandymon@ aol. and I will fwd pics the the dirtiest fuel tanks. you will speew your coffie whe you see the tanks in these yachts.
They are so full of crap the onlyn way to get them clean is to peel them like a sardine can, rinse wwith acetone, laqure thinner. alchol in each baffel and freah street fuel. Dangerous as hell but we save the boat, Nasty job.
Blue I am also a hard sell . I have wasted $1000s on snake oil, and polishig HA! I say. the only way is to scub the crap off the inside of the tanks. Trash the old fuel. Used oil trucks haul it off gladly

Great debates guys

also a guy named Diesel fumes Joined GMDIESEL .com on the 17th Great info, He is the repair guy at the Duramax factory.I think we should pitch in a get him a Snap-On key board. 2000 hits so far He's woring is ass of on our FAQs
bless his heart!

Captmon, hey the he** with DFA I'd rather go fishing and chase lusty busty sea wenches than talk about snake oil !!! :ro) ):h :D

LCD, I did see your reply about alcahol. Sorry I missed it the first time.

Bill, I don't think any DFA, by any manufacturer is going to help in the event of catastrophic water intake, such as a gallon in a tankfull. I am primarily concearned with a few things in a DFA. Cold weather start up, gelling, waxing, Cetane boost and emulsifyication to avoid rust in my system. My primary concearn with rust is warranty based issues. Probably the best system for someone concearned with excessive water intake is an additional water seperator with the pre-oem 2 micron filter. Maybe you would share with us the DFA companys you haven't been able to get a response from. I have had the quickest responses and straight forward answears from FPPF and Power Service. It will be interesting to see how this product snakes out but for me it falls in the categoryof ... if I have to mail order it or search high and low for it then its probably not worth the effort. YMMV

Captmon, hey the he** with DFA I'd rather go fishing and chase lusty busty sea wenches than talk about snake oil !!! :ro) ):h :D

LCD, I did see your reply about alcahol. Sorry I missed it the first time.

Bill, I don't think any DFA, by any manufacturer is going to help in the event of catastrophic water intake, such as a gallon in a tankfull. I am primarily concearned with a few things in a DFA. Cold weather start up, gelling, waxing, Cetane boost and emulsifyication to avoid rust in my system. My primary concearn with rust is warranty based issues. Probably the best system for someone concearned with excessive water intake is an additional water seperator with the pre-oem 2 micron filter. Maybe you would share with us the DFA companys you haven't been able to get a response from. I have had the quickest responses and straight forward answears from FPPF and Power Service. It will be interesting to see how this product snakes out but for me it falls in the categoryof ... if I have to mail order it or search high and low for it then its probably not worth the effort. YMMV

Blue Max I said that wrong, it wasn't that I didn'tget replies, it was that no one answered my question, but instead made some comment about the contents of thie product.I don't recall who the companies were since reading so much about all the companies on this forum. That was back in 03 when I bought my truck and was afraid to put anyting in it without some research. . Have tried several products since then and am now using SOYSHIELD # 139, a Schaeffers produuct, also use FPPF once in the while to. I talked to a retired petroleum engineer awhile back and he didn't want to say to much. He did tell me to remember that my little bottle only holds 32 0z.and that isn't very much for treatment for all those possible problems ( Low cetane, lubriciity, geled fuel, water, etc) in 250 gal of diesel. His thought was that the products manufacture's remain legal by not giving any figures.

If you have a huge amount of water, no additive will take care of it. The way I se it is that by running FPPF in my tanks, I maintain a clean and healthy system and can handle any small anmounts of condensate rather than letting them build up. If someone pees in my tank, I won't have enough to cover it.

Now one thing that I know for sure is that FPPF Fuel Power will take on water at a 1:1 ratio. FPPF's Fuel Power is an active ingredient in Total Power, but will be less effective per ounce as it has other treatments mixed in.

The one thing I love about FPPF fuel power is the great start ups in cold weather. Recently -15 overnight with the max outside, no heater etc. Started right up with FPPF. Some of the other "winter" additives I have tried struggle below +15 with lots of shuddering and shaking on start up. In 50,000 miles of use I have never found a drop of water in the seperator or a spec of rust in a filter. It's hard to argue with results.

Captmon, hey the he** with DFA I'd rather go fishing and chase lusty busty sea wenches than talk about snake oil !!! :ro) ):h :D

LCD, I did see your reply about alcahol. Sorry I missed it the first time.

Bill, I don't think any DFA, by any manufacturer is going to help in the event of catastrophic water intake, such as a gallon in a tankfull. I am primarily concearned with a few things in a DFA. Cold weather start up, gelling, waxing, Cetane boost and emulsifyication to avoid rust in my system. My primary concearn with rust is warranty based issues. Probably the best system for someone concearned with excessive water intake is an additional water seperator with the pre-oem 2 micron filter. Maybe you would share with us the DFA companys you haven't been able to get a response from. I have had the quickest responses and straight forward answears from FPPF and Power Service. It will be interesting to see how this product snakes out but for me it falls in the categoryof ... if I have to mail order it or search high and low for it then its probably not worth the effort. YMMV

Sea Wenches? We now refer to them as "Bow Bunnies" or "Anchor Hos" and "Heave Hoes between the hours of 0100 and 1100.
8 new injectors comming my way today!

I aggree, I've paid too much to be a tester of bs;
We recommend installing 2micron Racor tandam 1000's good for 1500 GPH

LOL, I think you mean "Dock Fluff" ! ):h

I'm running Amsoil diesel fuel aditive concentrate, 16 oz treats 100ga. according to label, so I'm addng approx 4 oz per tank. Amsoil states it contains no alcohol, and is neither an emulsifier or a demulsifier. It is said to lower gell point, clean system, and increase lubricity.
What I would like to do is find some way to securely install a drain petcock in the bottom of that polyetheylene plastic fuel tank. But I have yet to see anything that I trust to stay there as an adhesive.
What would be great if you could reach the floor of tank from the inside is to make a fitting with an integral flange on the inside. to use with a gasket, and threads on the OD to use another gasket and another flange plus a nut on the outside, then screw a petcock into female threads on the end!
A good draining of settled water after an overnight or longer shutdown once a month would do wonders for keeping out water and attendant problems.

Just use a bulk head fitting, you can get them in about any size you want.

Greg

I agree Greg, if you could get to the inside to put it in. Or either I don't understand what a bulkhead fitting is!
BTW, after all this talk about WIF, today I drained the oem drain and once again found no WIF. I've done this before, and never ever found any water there.
Anybody ever find any water there?

Just drop the tank and pull the sending unit. With that big hole you can get a bulk head fitting in real easy. TO drop the tank takes only a few minutes as long as its near empty.

Greg

Just drop the tank and pull the sending unit. With that big hole you can get a bulk head fitting in real easy. TO drop the tank takes only a few minutes as long as its near empty.

Greg

We've had my tank off and I can't get my hand in the hole, my wife and grandson could though. The drain would need to be in the bottom end of the tank so you could jack the truck to the right angles to get the water to flow to the right place.I don't think anyones got an arm long or skinny enough to do that. Right now I'm trying to find a plumber with a flex TV probe thats willing to look in the tank ( on the truck) for free. I watched them (plumber) use one to inspect the drain pipes under the house (concrete slab ) and its amazing the clarity of the picture it gets. I think one would be able to see even small bubbles of water in the fuel at a low point.

I agree Greg, if you could get to the inside to put it in. Or either I don't understand what a bulkhead fitting is!
BTW, after all this talk about WIF, today I drained the oem drain and once again found no WIF. I've done this before, and never ever found any water there.
Anybody ever find any water there?
Bill on my '02 I never ran DFA and there was water in the drain 3 times when I changed filters and rust one time. Thats when I traded it in for a '04 and started running DFA. I have used FPPF, which I like best as well as Power Service, Primrose and Schaeffers. Not a drop of water in there since.

Bump

Just curious as to where this went. Anyone try this stuff. The rant on BITOG is impressive but it kind of fizzled here. Kennedy????

I replied in another thread somewhere. Maybe someone could find it.

The main test subject was a semi owned/operated privately. There was no measured gain in mpg. Now the oil additive was a different story. While there again was no mpg change, there WAS a drop in oil consumption on this rig. I haven't seen the report details on the oil additive yet, just a few comments.

I did try the LCD fuel additive in my 2005 on the dyno and could not measure any gains in power.

Thanks, I suppose if it was available over the counter we would have more users/opinions. The word over at BITOG is that good results are being realized. Anyone here using this stuff that can give some feedback :confuzeld

The official word from Russ is that his usual 1 gallon in 10k oil consumption became nil in 20k during this trial so the oil additive has got to be doing something...

On edit:

Detroit Series 60 470HP clock at 400k+

Generally adds 1 gallon at 10k after service and services at 20k at which point it is 1 gallon down.

With the LCD oil additive, it was only 1 gallon down at 20k with no added oil.

FYI, Durham Transporation ran both in 200 diesel buses and saw on average 1.5 mpg increase, which with a bus averaging between 5-7 mpg is significant.

These products do work...just because they do not have the marketing dollars that power service, FPPF, ect have means nothing.

Sent an email to LCD yesterday asking them if thier fuel additive was flavored with any alchohol products. They responded that they would neither cofirm or deny the components of this product and it can be used in any gas or diesel engine .It might be a good product but until LCD confirms it doesn' contain any alcohol it won't be put in my Duramax.

I asked about a different product that claimed gas and diesel coverage with same additive and got this response:

"What is good for diesel is bad for spark
ignition, and vice versa."

This was from a VERY trustworthy source.

John,

Sorry, but your trustworthy source has not tested FP60. FP60 is perfect for gas or diesel. Over 50 years of use and not one single complaint.

I would agree with you before I came across this product and realized it is very different chemistry wise than any other product on the market.

The City of Highland Village, TX using these in gas and diesel for over 20 years says something.

Also, discuss this with Terry Dyson and 'Molakule' over at BITOG and learn how different this chemistry is compared to any product out there.

FYI these products were first developed to help with diesel engines. And they are good enough for the State of Texas to take notice and choose it as the ONLY diesel add to receive grant money for further testing.

Jeff (LCD),

I was about to place an order for FP60 to try it out, BUT now I'm wondering why you did not address Bill Gisse's email to LCD "if there is there any alcohol in this product?" Please respond to this. :exactly:

The contents does smell kinda different...

The contents does smell kinda different...

Like........?:think:

Like nothing else!!!!;)

Bill, sorry but I am under agreement to not disclose anything inregards to what is in the additive whether to confirm or deny. We cannot be too careful on who is reading/watching what we say and we cannot help narrow down the components.

What we can say is FP60 has been used in all types of diesel for over 50 years with not a complaint....repeat not one complaint. FP60 solves lubricity problems with diesel fuels and the fuel pump. Diesel engines have a water seperator and the pump gets it lubricity from the fuel itself, but todays low sulfur diesel fuels do not have enough lubricity.

FP60 solves this issues, dissolves carbon, reduces emissions, and in many case increases mileage....plus much much more.

The FP60 product does not harm any fuel system gas or diesel it is used in.

Bench testing ( Molakule Paper), used oil analysis results from Dyson Analysis customers, and the practical fact that use in BOTH diesel and gas engines backed by the near continuous use by local city fleets,( 20 years of use City of Highland Village, Texas), for example have shown no problems with the FP60 chemistry.

FP60 does not contain alcohol, nor does it contribute to damaging fuel system erosion from emulsified water.

Kennedy will be receiving a gallon of each to test out.

Jeff,

I just re-read this whole thread and there it is (above) you say there is no alcohol !! So now I'm wondering.......did you accidently let out top secret info? I don't think so because others (Power Service for one) will tell you theirs does NOT contain any alochol.

So let me ask again just so I'm clear on this point.....is there any alcohol in FP60 ??

For one others are patented and large companies backing them so they can easily fight anyone trying to copy what they have. Letting anyone know what's not in it does not really concern them, but we do not have that luxury.

Forgot about that post. That was obviously a mistake on my part before I knew the importance of keeping this info more tightly sealed.

For one others are patented and large companies backing them so they can easily fight anyone trying to copy what they have. Letting anyone know what's not in it does not really concern them, but we do not have that luxury.

Forgot about that post. That was obviously a mistake on my part before I knew the importance of keeping this info more tightly sealed.

Someone here is full of it. I suppose if I asked if these products contained horse **** they could not deny it as a componet. LCD just eliminated any alcohol containing doubts I've had. Theres no point in hiding what's not there so my conclusion is that it does contain alcohol and they would allow us to use them so they can make a quick buck. Since these products are not under any patents which are inexpensive to obtain it only leaves me to believe that one could not be earned (Snake oil) but it does allow me the legal right to have the products analyzed and post the results right here for all who has been receiving the run around for answers.

Just for the record I have already purchased both and plan on sending them to one of our chemical suppliers lab for a comprehensive analysis so I can then share with the folks here and at other forums who have concerns about alcohol. Had LCD been willing to provide a simple answer of alcohol content none of this would have happened. Frankly I beleive they have something to hide. When I opened the FP 60 bottle it had a strong scent of alcohol so after emailing my concerns as an end user this was the reply from Lube Control Products to justify the alcohol odor.

Also the bottle says that the product disperses water so there you have it.

Tommy,



LC and FP60 is not restricted in use in any vehicle, diesel or gasoline . We cannot confirm or deny any proprietary components of the products.



The scent of the product relates to the fact that LC and FP60 are a unique chemistry that is not equal to the sum of its parts.



Keep in mind over 50 years of use in all engine types and never a problem.



Sincerely,



Jeff Edwards

LCD INC

a bear,

Great, I for one will be anxious to see the results of the analysis you'll be getting!

I've decided NOT to purchase this stuff as the result of LCD playing
''hide the bologna" game, but would still like to see what's in it.
:grd:

Any Results Tommy?
Jason

I'm going to use this as a skit on white collar comedy..........nah! but I tell ya, I've read every post and I love this...if everyone was in a room, I'd bet there's goona be an A$$ Kickin.

Come on Tommy tell us please. Is it or is it not full of alkey-hol??

It's been awhile! Suprised this topis is still being discussed.

Some links for your reading pleasure.

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=78885&page=2&pp=15


http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=82022&highlight=fp60


http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2003Drivetrain1&Number=2569353&Forum=f48&Words=fp60&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2568102&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2569353


Research and learn...get UOA's done on your oil. If you don't want to try FP60 because we will not give out formula info of what is or is not in it then atleast give LC20 a try.

Sorry,
I kinda forgot about this thread and since no one here was using this product I never followed up with the results.
FP60-Lube Controls silence about this product containing alcohol was for a reason. FP60 does contains alcohol..... How much and if enough to cause system harm I can't say for sure. It also contains strong solvents which I was not comfortable with as far as seal compatability. I tried a couple of tanks before I found out it had alcohol and it seemed to work well. My engine ran smoother but I never checked the mileage. I also found that the contents separated in the jug quickly after sitting on the shelf. The white stuff that settled had me worried because I didn't want to introduce solids (if that's what it was) into my system for reasons we all know. Possible filter plugging, pump wear and/or injector cutting. (Dunno if this sediment is abrasive or not) Since there appeared to be some benefit, and the engine DID run smoother I'd be curious to know if alcohol and these particular solvents are dangerous in our common day and elaborate fuel systems. I since gave the remainder of the gallon away and it was used in a friends CTD since he will try anything that is free. LOL He said it caused his engine to run smoother and he also noticed a slight increase in fuel mileage. My opinion of this stuff is that it seems to have advantages but at the same time I decided not to use it for the reasons mentioned above and the simple fact that Lube Control's secrecy will not put me at ease doing so.
LC20Against my better judgement as I never use oil additives I tried this stuff. After adding it to my oil it initially used about a quart really fast. (in about one tank full) After that it stabilized back to normal and then it seemd like my oil usage dropped to hardly any usage. I Didn't have to add any make up oil during the remainder of the oil change. Unfortunately my truck was totaled so I was unable to have an oil analysis done. I'm tempted to give it a try on the LBZ but I will have to wait untill my UOA's stabilize after break in. Even if my UOA's come down with this product I sure I will probably have reservations as far as seal compatability. It may be OK but I guess I'm just very protective about my oil and I'm old school when it comes to adding anything to it. Especially with the complete and quality oils we have today.

a bear,

Thanks for the update !!

a bear....thanks for taking the time to give your update. Most important in your whole post was your truck was totaled.....sorry to hear that and hope no one was hurt.

What I can say is in 50 years these 2 products have never damaged anything and if they did we'd pay for it! These products were made for diesel.

The stuff you see seperating has to do with the dye added in and will do no harm whatsoever. Since you bought your gallon we have taken over the manufacturing and improved the mixing process so there is no seperation.

Your findings are interesting....similair to what other companies say when they try to break it down. For over 50 years large companies have tried and think they have it and make it and then ruin engines in the process.

FYI the test done by Dyson Analysis soaked seals in 100% solution for 15 months with absolutley no swelling or damage. Again that's 100% solution not 1 ounce and 5 gallons of fuel. Not sure what else we can do.