Hello everyone, just need a little info, i seem to understand that the controller is different and if so can the LBZ controller just replace the LLY for the extra horse and torq?

no. ready the FAQ at the top of the forum. The motor is very similar, but the programs running them are not. Use the search function and you will find many ways to add more power. such as buying a tuner.

It only takes $$$$$$$ to make any change to our trucks....

and it is addictive...

Unless your LLY is an 06 it will never be like an LBZ even if you add more power. The 06 LLY is the same block and bottom end as the LBZ just with a different tune. They kept the power lower, I'm assuming until they could faze out the 5 speeds (although I could be wrong on the reason). When they began using the 6 speeds which are beefed up they changed the tune and you have an LBZ.

Hello everyone, just need a little info, i seem to understand that the controller is different and if so can the LBZ controller just replace the LLY for the extra horse and torq? I am doing a diesel project and i needed the duramax with the 4L80 trans attached but i didnt realize that it had less power, so just curious if changing the contoller will fix th power seeing the engine is the same.

Unless your LLY is an 06 it will never be like an LBZ even if you add more power. The 06 LLY is the same block and bottom end as the LBZ just with a different tune. They kept the power lower, I'm assuming until they could faze out the 5 speeds (although I could be wrong on the reason). When they began using the 6 speeds which are beefed up they changed the tune and you have an LBZ.

I don't no if I'm right or not, but I heard the LBZ had a retuned turbo to make more psi and lower compression to make a quieter more powerful engine than the lly

My understanding was the lower compression was for emissions. I don't think there is any way to make an LLY into an LBZ, there are internal differences. Just beef up the LLY to make it what you need, dont forget to be nice to the tranny.

Unless your LLY is an 06 it will never be like an LBZ even if you add more power. The 06 LLY is the same block and bottom end as the LBZ just with a different tune. They kept the power lower, I'm assuming until they could faze out the 5 speeds (although I could be wrong on the reason). When they began using the 6 speeds which are beefed up they changed the tune and you have an LBZ.
All 2006 LLY or LBZ motors in pickup trucks have automatic trannys have 6 speed Allisons.

sell lly. buy lbz. much easier...

All 2006 LLY or LBZ motors in pickup trucks have automatic trannys have 6 speed Allisons.

Oh, okay. I didn't realise the 06 LLY used the 6 speed too.

I don't no if I'm right or not, but I heard the LBZ had a retuned turbo to make more psi and lower compression to make a quieter more powerful engine than the lly

According to the sources I've read the turbo stayed the same. Max boost never increased going to the LBZ. The decreased compression was to reduce cylinder pressures, reduce NOx emissions and to make it quieter. Lowering the strain on the engine while simultaneously beefing up the bottom end should give longevity.

I don't no if I'm right or not, but I heard the LBZ had a retuned turbo to make more psi and lower compression to make a quieter more powerful engine than the lly

Bingo.

06LLY and the LBZ are the exact same motor mechanically...including the turbo...the only difference between the two relates to the ECM and tuning....period

Oh, okay. I didn't realise the 06 LLY used the 6 speed too.


This is not true. An 06 LLY only came with the 5 speed. The six speed was only offered with the LBZ motor in 06.5 model year along with 07 classics.

Dave

This is not true. An 06 LLY only came with the 5 speed. The six speed was only offered with the LBZ motor in 06.5 model year along with 07 classics.

Dave

You are incorrect all 06 LLY's came with a 6 speed...including mine..

just change the vin tag. ;)

This is not true. An 06 LLY only came with the 5 speed. The six speed was only offered with the LBZ motor in 06.5 model year along with 07 classics.

Dave

Like LT3Diesel said, all 06's came with 6 speeds, because I know for sure my LLY has it.

So getting back to the real question, if you can change an LLY to an LBZ, how do you do it?

Is there a specific tuner, like PPE that can "update" the LLY software to LBZ software?? Are the PPE claimed hp gains based off the LLY power or the LBZ? For example, at level 1, the PPE is supposed to add 40hp, for the LLY that would bring hp up to around 350, for the LBZ it would be near 400, is this the case or does the LLY go up to near 400 as well??

This is not true. An 06 LLY only came with the 5 speed. The six speed was only offered with the LBZ motor in 06.5 model year along with 07 classics.

Dave

I'll have to say thats untrue, I have a '06 LLY and I have the 6 speed Allison with the manual tap up/down on the shifter.

I'll have to say thats untrue, I have a '06 LLY and I have the 6 speed Allison with the manual tap up/down on the shifter.


X 2

X3

I'll have to say thats untrue, I have a '06 LLY and I have the 6 speed Allison with the manual tap up/down on the shifter.X 4

x5, the 2006 LLY was the 310hp 605 lb-ft torque engine matched to the Allison 6spd with manual up/down shifter on the transmission selector lever. It was produced through 3rd quarter of 2005 for '06 model year. LBZ was simply a programming change to get 360hp and 650 lb-ft torque offered beginning in the 4th qtr of 2005.

I took this from the sticky at the top of the page. They are not the same motor, there are internal differences to lower the compression on the LBZ.

---The DURAMAX 6600’s horsepower and torque increase and emissions reduction are enabled by a strengthened iron cylinder block and a lower compression ratio. The lower compression reduces stress on the engine by reducing the peak cylinder firing pressure. This, in turn, allows more fuel to be burned – more fuel means more power – while the lower compression helps reduce NOx emissions. Lower compression also helps reduce noise and vibration, making the all variants of the 6600 a quieter and smoother engine.---

Taken from http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67521

Taken from Sticky on LBZ vs LLY differences on this website.
As I read below, the 2006 LLY is the same physical engine as the LBZ without the higher output programming. That is why forums for LLY's are split between the second and third generation. The 2006 LLY has the strengthened cylinder block as becam the LBZ once the programming was changed for higher output. Is that correct? The 2006 LLY is significantly improved over the 2004.5-2005 LLY per GM.


The 2006 Silverado HD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=46&script=showthread&forumid=140) and Sierra HD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=46&script=showthread&forumid=140) with the Allison 6-speed automatic transmission will be equipped with a significantly revised 310 horsepower DURAMAX 6600 (LLY) through the third quarter of 2005. It will be replaced in these applications in the fourth quarter of 2005, by the higher output, 360-horsepower DURAMAX (LBZ).

“The introduction of the DURAMAX diesel in 2001 represented a significant evolution in North American diesel pick-up truck market and propelled GM’s heavy duty diesel pick-up truck market share to over 25 percentage points,” said Charles Freese, GM Powertrain executive director, diesel engineering. “The introduction of the improved, 2006 DURAMAX turbo diesel once again sets a new benchmark to which all others will be measured.”

The DURAMAX 6600’s horsepower and torque increase and emissions reduction are enabled by a strengthened iron cylinder block and a lower compression ratio. The lower compression reduces stress on the engine by reducing the peak cylinder firing pressure. This, in turn, allows more fuel to be burned – more fuel means more power – while the lower compression helps reduce NOx emissions. Lower compression also helps reduce noise and vibration, making the all variants of the 6600 a quieter and smoother engine.

I also think they kept the lly for heavy units. Like the 4500, 5500, and also I think for the manual trannies.

I also think they kept the lly for heavy units. Like the 4500, 5500, and also I think for the manual trannies.

And the vans that do not have the Allison tranmision

There is so much confusion over this issue its not even funny anymore. GM really messed up when they decided to call the early 06 Duramaxs LLYs also. They are VERY different from the 04.5-05 LLYs. The 06 LLY and the LBZs are mechanically IDENTICAL with different tuning on the LBZs for higher output. Do you guys really think GM would produce a different engine for half a year only to change it shortly after?

So remember
04.5-05 LLYs = true original LLYs, very different from 06s, when you read about difference from LLYs to LBZs, these are the LLYs they are talking about

06 LLY = LBZ, not the same as the 04.5-05 LLY, mechanically an LBZ with lower output tuning on the ECM

Once again ..... back to the original question ...... could GM reflash an 06 LLY to be the same as an 06 LBZ?? If so, and you could talk a buddy into it, because I know they won't want to, would there be any problems? They definitely run and pull better. I'd try to make that happen if I was fairly sure it would work.

I know you can do basically the same thing with a tuner but not exactly.. There's a couple of things I'd like to retain that tuners don't necessarily give you. One - most of the tuners tell you to be careful of EGTs. Obviously GM doesn't think that's a problem with the LBZ tune or they would have included a gauge. There's hundreds of them pulling up and down the road with no problems. I don't want to have to worry about that. Two - you loose the DIC calculations with any tuner and I'm guessing they work fine on an actual LBZ. I wish I had the LBZ motor but didn't realized there was a difference when I bought my truck. I'm not unhappy with my LLY, just wishful for the extra HP and torque of the newer version.

I'm no expert on the issue. It does seem possible that since your '06LLY is physically the same as an LBZ, it could be reprogrammed with the ECM criteria GM used for the LBZ add'l HP and TQ. However, I would guess that you are going to have a hard time finding anyone that would do it and an even harder time having anyone stand behind it.

I have the 2006 LLY and seem to be getting better mileage (both hwy and city) than most people posting info that have 2006 LBZ's. For me that is more valuable than the add'l 50hp at the flywheel, which doesn't amount to much more at the rear wheels.

Good luck, but a tuner may be the cheapest, quickest way to get that add'l power.

The scan tool at the Chevy store will not install the LBZ programming into an LLY because the truck's VIN number says it's an LLY.

Ok so I have a 06 LLY and my buddy has a 06 LBZ, both have the edge juice on them. Does mine have the same ending hp as his or if they were both on level 6 would the LLY have 410hp and the LBZ have 460hp? Just a question i dont understand because the edge juice ( I think) doesn't reprogram any controllers?

The Allison upgrade for the LLY or LBZ is not the reason. I bought my truck in Sep05 before I deployed to Afghanistan and it came with an LLY w/a six speed Allison. If that was true then somehow, Chevrolet, or the factory where my pick-up was assembled, must have built my truck on a Monday or Tuesday. Unless your LLY is an 06 it will never be like an LBZ even if you add more power. The 06 LLY is the same block and bottom end as the LBZ just with a different tune. They kept the power lower, I'm assuming until they could faze out the 5 speeds (although I could be wrong on the reason). When they began using the 6 speeds which are beefed up they changed the tune and you have an LBZ.

The Allison upgrade for the LLY or LBZ is not the reason. I bought my truck in Sep05 before I deployed to Afghanistan and it came with an LLY w/a six speed Allison. If that was true then somehow, Chevrolet, or the factory where my pick-up was assembled, must have built my truck on a Monday or Tuesday.

What model year is your truck? Even being made in 05 it must be an 06 model. It seems apparent that there are many 06 LLYs with the 6-speeds. However the fact remains that the 6-speed received many upgrades with the increased power of the LBZ in mind. The fact that the two new units were fazed in at different times is immaterial.

2006 LLY's w/ 6 spd Allison were delivered as '06 models in 3rd quarter of 2005. From my window sticker,mine hit the dealer lot in Sept 2005 but it was the 2006 model year with LLY and 6 spd Allison.

As far as tuners both on the same setting, the 50hp gain in the LBZ would translate through the tuner if it doesn't reprogram the base ECM program. LLY starts at 310, LBZ starts at 360hp