after my last sled trip to the mountains, then summer holidays with the fifth wheel (both trailers close to 9k)and seeing how high my egts got while pulling the trailers, i have been looking to find a way to drop the temps, without sacrificing hp, after much reading here and their, i decided to go with water injection, knowing that Super Diesel and others have had great success stories in dropping egts, and maybe a few ponies to recover):h

:ro) i went with SD dual nozzle injection system, it is a professional and easy to install system, will all fittings and such, when using his muti port manifold:ro) , i tapped into the bottom of the winsheild washer fluid(thus allowing the light to come on in the dash when fluid is low) giving me about 1.3 gallons of storage

it has only been on a few days now, but so far i have seen my egts stay in chek, dropping from 1800 to around 1500 from what i can tell on open throttle, will be setting up a display light so i can see exactly what the boost pressure is, when the pump kicks on

i have it in juction with propane, and it seams to increase boost by a few pounds, need more time pulling to verify results, as for noise, my first thoughts were it sounded louder, but after today it sounded normal

we are planning another sled trip, maybe leaving tomorrow if things warm up and test to its fullest, will report the results, thanks fred

Glad to see WI catching on. From everything I've read it should be the first mod we do on our trucks. Your EGT's sound incredibly higher than normal, still? I note you are running a lot of aftermarket stuff though. Keep us posted on your results.JJ

Fred, what are you useing, windshield washer fluid or water /meth?

Fred, what are you useing, windshield washer fluid or water /meth?
my first two tanks have been washer fluid, good for about -35, i just got a bunch of methanal from the brother in-law, so as of today i am switching over a 50-50 blend

had to drive 40 miles last night for hockey, was talking on the phone and forgot that the swich for wi was still on, as i got with in a few miles of the arena, my low fluid display came on, lets a guy know what boost it must of hit for a while(in speeds of 80 to 90 mph), with no load attatched

will be looking more into what boost it kicks in at and what the temperture drops are, going sledding pulling a enclosed 4 place inclosed loaded trailer, and two fords and one dodge diesel owner(major bull**** session), ):h , duramax do not let me down):h

bringing 6 jugs of pre mixed 50-50 for the trip, will be running large stack, with lp

fredw,

Sounds like you might need to get FAA clearance to fly at low altitude! ):h Weeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Keep us posted on the WI. Initially it sounds like a bigger tank is a good idea for my application since Mama JJ often pulls our 5ver by herself and she won't like to constantly be filling the WI tank.:o

Now if only there was a dyno somewhere on your way. Have a safe trip. JJ :)

well back from the sled trip, fun had by all(hope my liver holds out):h ), the night before we left, i installed a light to come on showing me what boost the pump kicks in at, i guess i must of used the same fuse as my digital egt, boost gauge, and shorted the dam thing out, no way to fix it, bd is sending another out, so i had no way to see my egt and boost levels for pulling, sucked big time-:t , we also seen a 25 degree change in ambient temperture in our 5 hour trip, causing the roads to be icy, preventing hard pulling, so in other words not using wi

i only was able to try it out once, and did hear a disstick motor sound change, will have to get use to that

our mileage going down against the wind averaged 12cdn, with speeds up to 80 mph when roads were good, comming home average mpg of 14.5mpg (cdn), with 70 to 85mph, with a slight tail wind

will have more info on wi once gauges are replaced:ro)

interesting very interesting..........good post thanks

took the gtech out for a spin last night with the new found wi running, did three runs and seen very close readings, my 60' times are still not to hot(1.9), but seen my end result better by a few tenths, made 13.21, 13.24, 13.29 in the 1/4, showing 558hp,550, 541hp with a tq of around 1100 and this is on -35 winsheild washer fluid,

i have done close to a hundred passes with the gtech and have never had seen these type of numbers, looks to be a 50 hp gain or so, with wi, will dyno to verify

Will have to hook up when i get home to have a closer looook. Sounds good though. How accurate r those gtech.....without startin a war. lol

will be going on the dyno tommorow, to verify stacks, tunes,and wi,lp, let you know

last time i had checked the dyno to gtech it was out by 5 hp, and a bit low on tq, pretty impresive tho

Hey Fred...whats the whole set-up run?If you don't mind me asking...also how hard is she to install?

went on the dyno today, with my new found wi, seen some positive results, this first run was done on a stock tune, with a base run of 253@449, you will see it takes about 4 seconds before it builds enought boost to start the wi, then you can see the difference, the final number was close to a net of 50hp and still climbing, with the tq around the 80 plus ftlbs:ro) http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/82851076.jpg
as for the next picture this is what wi made with the largest stack, with a base line stack of 509hp@967:ro) , it was nice to see that sd kit was worth the money, as for egt, from what i could tell, it looked to be 200 lower(somewhat hard to concentrate), this is a mix of 40 methanal, and 60 water

p.s. this was on #1diesel:ro)







http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/82851082.jpg

Looking Good Fred!

Hey Fred...whats the whole set-up run?If you don't mind me asking...also how hard is she to install?the price was 450dollars, for the dual nozzel, and no tank, ussing my own washer fluid tank, SD had everything i needed in the kit, except for an extra silicone hose for the intercooler, cost me 30 dollars, but only need it to go back to stock

his kit is very professionally done

Fred, what stack was the last run with? How much more do you figure you will gain on #2. Very impressive.

):h a little bbq perhaps:ro)

Here I am thinkin' the pane does'nt do anything for us high HP guys.):h

I'm curious as to why you're running #1 fuel. Do you just mean blended winter fuel? Forgive my ignorance, but I've always been under the impression that straight #1 is a big NO NO unless it's extremely cold. Even then, I'd rather not use straight #1.

Besides being hard on the injection pump, etc., doesn't #1 contain less energy per unit of volume?

Thanks for educating me.

max: the last stack was the 205pp stacked with the 170jkva on wi

as for the difference with #2, they say you lose a miniumum of 5%, as we can all atase to in the winter, mileage sucks-:t

sdaver/jim: ya it would of been nice to having the lp working, cannot wait to retest, another 50 would of been nice

coyote: you are correct, #1 does have a less btu valve, and is called winter diesel, my dealer swiches over to winter diesel in nov 15 and back to summer on march 15, now i am not sure what blend or cut winter diesel is of #2, or if it is two different types of fuel, some say it is just karosene added:ro)

I get about 40-45 more HP on pane when running it with the Extreme. In the lower levels, the power gain on pane is higher for sure. Now add the Extreme, pane, and clean it up with some N2O. Better have a stong tranny!!!

Well, #1 diesel is not actually the same as "winter diesel." #1 IS kerosene. In most cases, winter diesel is just blended #2 diesel. It's common in my neck of the woods for suppliers to blend up to 15 or 20% #1 with the normal #2 in the coldest weather.

Running straight #1 will be a surefire recipe for disaster.

Well, #1 diesel is not actually the same as "winter diesel." #1 IS kerosene. In most cases, winter diesel is just blended #2 diesel. It's common in my neck of the woods for suppliers to blend up to 15 or 20% #1 with the normal #2 in the coldest weather.

Running straight #1 will be a surefire recipe for disaster.
good to know, learned something new, i will ask supplier about mine, thanks

this stuff prolly varies from state to state,number 1 diesel is what we run all year round doesnt really get dold enough to gel,and number 2 is dyed untaxed fuel used in farm and boating applications

Again, #1 and #2 diesel have nothing to do with taxes. You can buy #2 dyed fuel, and you can buy #1 dyed fuel. On the other hand, there is clear #1 and clear #2.

Summer #2 is generally just straight #2. Winter #2 usually has some #1 blended with it for cold weather or is straight #2 with some sort of anti-gel added.

#1 is just that--straight #1. I seriously doubt that you are running straight #1 year round unless you happen to reside in Siberia. In the old days, they used to run straight #1 in some heavy equipment during the really cold months, but that has all but ceased now. With better additives available today, the most you're ever likely to see is a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2.

Again, #1 and #2 diesel have nothing to do with taxes. You can buy #2 dyed fuel, and you can buy #1 dyed fuel. On the other hand, there is clear #1 and clear #2.

Summer #2 is generally just straight #2. Winter #2 usually has some #1 blended with it for cold weather or is straight #2 with some sort of anti-gel added.

#1 is just that--straight #1. I seriously doubt that you are running straight #1 year round unless you happen to reside in Siberia. In the old days, they used to run straight #1 in some heavy equipment during the really cold months, but that has all but ceased now. With better additives available today, the most you're ever likely to see is a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2.
That is a great explanation of what is going on at the pump.
The only thing I can add is that #1kerosene has a cloud point of -34F all on it's own. No additive required. The problem is #1 does not provide adequate lubrication and is down on BTU's. This is why the winter months result in a milage loss and also extra engine wear.

I personally wish that all fueling stations would supply #2 unblended all year long with a very high quality additive package included. More of an injector cleaner/cetane booster in the summer and more of an anti gel in the winter. This would make life alot simpler.

I agree Bronco! I've found one place in my local area that does this, but I'm not able to fill there all the time.

As long as it isn't a real "heavy" blend of #1, I don't really see that it will harm an engine in the long run if using a good additive each tank.

Again, #1 and #2 diesel have nothing to do with taxes. You can buy #2 dyed fuel, and you can buy #1 dyed fuel. On the other hand, there is clear #1 and clear #2.

Summer #2 is generally just straight #2. Winter #2 usually has some #1 blended with it for cold weather or is straight #2 with some sort of anti-gel added.

#1 is just that--straight #1. I seriously doubt that you are running straight #1 year round unless you happen to reside in Siberia. In the old days, they used to run straight #1 in some heavy equipment during the really cold months, but that has all but ceased now. With better additives available today, the most you're ever likely to see is a 50/50 blend of #1 and #2.AGAIN this prolly varies from state to state because in good old nc i buy tanker loads of 1 diesl for the farm trucks and tanker loads of numbe 2 diesl which is dyed and untaxed,nc doesnt get cold enough to gel fuel ,perhaps this is why we dont have the blend,several people that have moved into the are from new york didnt understand this either,hopefully this clears it up,not flaming just stateing what is on my invoices

King D,

What # goes in your offroad/farm equiptment? What color is it?

What # goes in your street vehicles? What color is it?

King D,

What # goes in your offroad/farm equiptment? What color is it?

What # goes in your street vehicles? What color is it? Both #1 and #2 are available in onroad and offroad (red dyed) grades. The ONLY difference between the two is the dye. (and the taxes paid.) Red dyed fuels oils are exempt form highway fuel taxes.

I am going to leave this one alone.

I just hope if I pass through North Carolina I do not end up with a tank full of kerosene or a tank full of red #2.

Good old #2 petro diesel fuel will suit me just fine.

number 2 farm fuel is dyed and (should say untaxed instead of taxed here)taxed.number 1 fuel is not dyed but is taxed and is on the pump as as well.also kerosene is available at the side pumpsbut its labeled as kerosene,i have been told there are died and undyed versins but i have never used any so i dont know

Yeah, I'm gonna have to leave this one alone now also. I'm thoroughly confused how North Carolinans sell/distribute/dye/tax their fuel, so I hope I never end up needing any diesel if I ever travel there.

"Number 2 farm fuel is dyed and taxed." Then what is the purpose of this being dyed and called farm fuel? The whole point behind dyeing fuel red is to mark it as untaxed fuel not legal for highway use!

North Carolina must have a unique method of just assigning numbers to their diesel uncommon to the rest of the U.S. and world. Maybe it's kinda like McDonalds? "Yeah, I'd like a #3 in my truck, and I'll have a #1, but hold the tomatoes."

Don't get me wrong, I'm just kidding with ya here! I'm sure we're all using the same fuel in reality, but distributors and states have different labeling systems, so that is where the confusion is coming in.

At any rate, I'm nearly certain you're not using what the rest of us are calling #1 diesel. If you are and haven't had any injection system problems, I'd like to buy your truck. It must be the best one to ever roll off the line!

"I'd like to buy your truck It must be the best one to ever roll off the line!"

me too, one of the fastest lb7 out there, ok how much jess):h

i made a correction in the eArlier post sorry it should have said 2 fuel is dyed and untaxed and 1 is not dyed and taxed,soory again ,but my typing just plain out sucks.and i also agree that i am not using what you guys call 1 either that was the whole point of my first post about different regions calling it different things...jess fred how does 35000 sound and il garrantee it to run 11.3s or better

Let's go back to the WI system (original post), I am in the process of adding mods and WI seems to be the "best bang for the buck" at this point. I have the edge/juice w/attitude but still a stock tranny. Since WI increases hp/tq, lowers EGT's, lubricates the engine, etc..... it makes more sense to me to go with WI and just buy a nice 5" SS tip for the stock exhaust versus replacing the exhaust. :rolleyes: $450 is appears to be less than new quality exhaust. :confused:

Fredw/SD, are you able to regulate the amount of hp/tq the WI provides? My concern is if you are running 50hp/90tq additional from the WI will I be able to use the E/J on level 1 or 2 with a stock tranny without slipping it? Also, have you ran into any other issues with WI that you hadn't figured on?:( JJ :)

i made a correction in the eArlier post sorry it should have said 2 fuel is dyed and untaxed and 1 is not dyed and taxed,soory again ,but my typing just plain out sucks.and i also agree that i am not using what you guys call 1 either that was the whole point of my first post about different regions calling it different things...jess fred how does 35000 sound and il garrantee it to run 11.3s or better
jess if i had 35000cdn):h kicking around, i would have a fast fast truck:ro) :grd:

Let's go back to the WI system (original post), I am in the process of adding mods and WI seems to be the "best bang for the buck" at this point. I have the edge/juice w/attitude but still a stock tranny. Since WI increases hp/tq, lowers EGT's, lubricates the engine, etc..... it makes more sense to me to go with WI and just buy a nice 5" SS tip for the stock exhaust versus replacing the exhaust. :rolleyes: $450 is appears to be less than new quality exhaust. :confused:

Fredw/SD, are you able to regulate the amount of hp/tq the WI provides? My concern is if you are running 50hp/90tq additional from the WI will I be able to use the E/J on level 1 or 2 with a stock tranny without slipping it? Also, have you ran into any other issues with WI that you hadn't figured on?:( JJ :)
as for regulating hp/tq on wi i would think the mixture would have to be figured acordingly, might just need to run winsheild washer fluid (less methanal blend)

keep in mind that running the lower hp(under 400hp) you will need not as much water injected, probALLY only need one nozel, thus maybe only neting around the 40hp and still being able to use level 1 or 2

i raised my starting bosst pressure up two pounds(hobbs switch) to prevent bogging of the engine in cold ambeint temps, (need less cooling) but caused no problems, (two second change), and other than that so far all is good, looks to be a nice improvement

fredw, much like the E/J it would be nice to be able to not engage WI until the engine is up to operating temps.:rolleyes: Seems as simple as an on/off switch wired into the Trippin ATS mount. I pm'd SD for a price on a WI with the large tank. The bed of my truck is pretty much taken up with the 5ver hitch and tool box anyway, might as well use what little space I have left for the larger tank.

So one can regulate the hp/tq by varying the solution in the tank. Makes sense. If possible I will have the truck dyno'd before/after the WI is installed. The E/J w/attitude and WI just might be a sweet combo, will advise. JJ :)

i did find the wi to sound like a knock the first few weeks of use(a little concerened), than after my injectors were replaced last week, is is much quieter, i think the injectors had a lot to do with the noise, will be running a 50/50 blend for the next dyno event

now after a month of running wi, it still looks to be a great help in egt reduction, with a starting boost of 20 lbs it takes a noticable longer time for temps to increase, to a dangerous point, will work great i think for pulling over mountain grades
with the westers/jkva stack and lp and wi, i have very low turbo bark, and a little more injector noise(much better with the new injectors), but far from bad, noise seams to be louder with colder ambeint temps, i will say if used for pulling a long ways one might want to have a larger tank(amazing how much water is sprayed out of the two nozels at once), one like 8 gallons could be a benifit, seams i am always filling the winsheild fluid, looks to be a 50/50 mix doing the best job, but bug spray will work good as well, or even water, will do some research with that later on

as for hp it seams to be around the 40hp increase each time i dyoned on the high stack, and more with the lower stacks, if i was under 450hp often, i would install a value to one of the nozzels so i could shut off, it seams running under that hp it will put out the flame and sound a bit boggy(unless throttle is wide open), to much water for the volume of air flow, will look at testing that as well, i think in higher ambeint temps, this system will have better results, keep you posted

Where do I find the web address for Super Diesel?

He is working on it.........

PM him..........

.
.
.
.

He is working on it.........

PM him...........
. Hehh! Yeah, you've definately got my attention. I'd like to
see his website for more details(pictures) of his kit....
I don't really care about fancy profesisonal graphics(etc) , good pictures
& descriptions are all I need....

Any idea on the timeframe for his site?

thanks!

T.(I like lots of details)

here is a picture SD had sent me back when i bought my kit, you can see the, there is a slightly different manifold for the lly, compared to the lb7, and 3 different tank sises he offers, or just use the winsheid washer as i have done, you can go with a single or double nozzle, depending on your current hp, hope it helps outhttp://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/87472026.jpg

PM superdiesel. He can answer any question you have and is always willing to send pics. I just wish he would work on something that dosnt go under the hood or truck. His products look to nice to hide under the hood:bling: Maybe we can get him to make some cool man naked lady billet mud flaps or something):h

Hey Fred - thanks for the picture. Might you have any pictures of your
system "as installed"? Does the LB7 "manifold ring" splice into the silicon
hose between the intercooler and intake manifold?

Thanks!

T.

here is a picture SD had sent me back when i bought my kit, you can see the, there is a slightly different manifold for the lly, compared to the lb7, and 3 different tank sises he offers, or just use the winsheid washer as i have done, you can go with a single or double nozzle, depending on your current hp, hope it helps outhttp://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/87472026.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/87967599.jpgi mounted the pump on the drivers side feder support as shown, with the relay beside the fuse box, then ran the high pressure lines over to the SD manifold, where the hobbs switch is located as well the two nozzels, i also have my nitrous and hobbs located their, i tied my lp into the filter minder port, rather than the manifold, any other questions, do not be scared to ask
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/87967612.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/566829/847939/87967622.jpg

Ooh, Daddy like! I can't believe I'm thinking about water/meth injection now that I'm having my tranny built in the two weeks!

Can you give me a little more info on the consumption rate? For example, if I was around 375-400 RWHP, then how long would a gallon last?

I know an exact number won't be realistic, but I'm trying to get an idea if this is strictly a racing type application, or if I could actually use it in real-world situations.

The 2.5 gal tank last about 5 1/2 mins of constant running. When your running, it seems much shorter though.

Wow, that's not long then. Although I think it's awesome what you guys have accomplished here, I'm not so sure this is a solution for my specific situation. It sounds to me like this setup is more of a "competition" type unit than something that can be utilized in daily driving. We'll see... I need to do some more research and pester you guys some more with questions!

):h i did some thinking on how i can make this work, come this summer when we head to the yukon, if i run a small water line from the hoiday trailer water holding tank pump to the wi pump and leave the trailer pump on, it should work, giving me 50 gallons of water):h storage, over the seven montain passes to get there, then better yet, throw trailer antifreze in the storage tank for the extra effect, and drink beer all day long):h :ro)

CK, IIRC you can adjust the system to engage at different boost psi levels, 16-18psi is what SD gave me. The WI system will not engage below these psi levels so for normal driving you won't hit these boost levels unless you nail the accelerator and shouldn't run through solution as fast as they do. I don't believe it is a constant injection. SD or FW if I screwed that up.... :o:

I'm looking at it for towing heavy. Those that tow in hilly or mountainous areas will see these boost numbers quite often on climbs. This is when I would like the extra power and EGT reduction. WI is definitely in my trucks future, but right now my budget is a bit tight. I live in Florida and don't tow in these areas on a regular basis so I opted for a new exhaust for now. :rolleyes:

FW, towing that trailer behind you for the extra capacity is going to kill your 1/4 mile times! ):h Keep us posted on how the WI is operating and any plus's and minus's. Later. JJ :)

just setting up my website, and thought i could put this run on the dyno here, since it was on westers/jkva 170 with wi and lp, the rpm cable fell off elminating the tq, and you can hear when the relay blew later in the run, but it still sounds ok
http://www.dmaxperformance.com/fredvideos/fred575.avi