Hi,

This morning it was -11F, when I went to start the 2500 Dmax. After 3 cycles with the glow plugs I tried to start it. No dice. So 2-3 more glow plug cycles and it coughs and dies when I try to start it. 2-3 more attempts and it starts, but runs rough with more smoke than normal. Idled for 15 min and went down the road. Got 1/4 mile and it had no power (noticed the engine icon was lit up). At the 1/2 mile mark it started to sputter and then died. After 2-3 min it restarted, but the "Service Break System" warning message appeared with beeps and flashing lights. I turned around and headed home. Truck ran like snit and died once more. Lots of white smoke when it was running. Temp guage was up to ~120-130 at this point.

I thought it might be the Nictane filter waxed up (I use power service additive and winter fuel here in WI), so I wrapped the nictane in heat tape and went in for an hour. Came out, and it started but still rough running. Break warning light was off, but engine icon still lit. Tried to drive to the stealer, and it immediatly started to die, cough sputter and lose power. Turned around and went home. Outside temp at this point was +3F.

Truck is stock except for Nictane filter.
Changed both GM filter and Nictane in November after 15,000 miles.
Tank is a bit over 1/2 full.
Mileage is a bit over 34,000

The tow truck just took it to the dealer. This is the 2nd time it's been towed to the dealer in a month! Last time was due to the service tech not tightening the battery cable to the starter. Trans was removed to fix an oil leak at the rear of the engine....

Any thougth on what is going on?

Thanks!
John Bud

Press accelerator 1/2 way down when cranking after 3 glow cycles.... she will start..but let it idle for a few minutes, gently operate the brakes, and turn the steering wheel a couple turns lef and right... go into all trans ranges for at least 5 seconds... go back to park and leave the truck to warm up for a few minutes.... engage high idle and turn all heat to off... in 15 minutes you will have no trouble and the temp will come up

What are you using for oil?
I remote started mine w/o issue in Millinocket Maine last Wed and it was -15. I use 5W-40 Mobil 1 Delvac and Stanadyne additive. Maybe that is the difference?

Injectors.

Ben

Do you have a GT-E ? My poor 69 cougar and been in parts for 8 years.

The service brake system is from towing. The front wheels and truning and the back ones arn't. That will clear it self out once you restart it.

Cougar GT-E,
Same symptoms as my truck, including the Service Braks Sys. The upshot is consistenet with blnagel's assesment. I'm waiting for 8 new injectors. incidentally, the brake sys. light never came back.

I finally checked my oil for fuel...bingo.

It is concerning to me to find fuel in the oil. When my injectors were ready to puke, they did not dump any fuel into the crank. What do you do if the is fuel in the crank? Change oil frequently?

Good luck.
Ben

You have 19K on the filters. How much further are you planning to run them? Later! Frank

Think he meant that he changed the filters in November when the filters had 15,000 miles not the truck.
Sounds to me like your fuel filter was icing or gelling up. Loss of power, coughing. and dieing, and still restarting . Iced or gelled up some but not fully.
Put it in a heated garage for a few hours and see if it dethaws and runs fine afterwood. If it does then it's ice or gel. Change filter's again and put more additive in.

My .02

Sounds like a filter to me. You mention the cat but what about the OEM? Even my old 6.5TD starts without issue at -15.

Greg

anybody else catch the air temp? any body see anything about plugging it in?

Wellll,


I got my truck back, but...

The dealer's tech couldn't find any codes for the "Service Break System" shown on the DIC. He said it was probably just an intermitent ground contact. "Can't do anything if there ain't no codes" Love that original thought process....

The vacuum guage he put on post factory filter (I use a parker filter BTW) showed 10 in vac at idle. He wanted to change the filter $$$$ then check more stuff out. I tried to tell him that I put on a new set of filters on 11/12 at 31200 miles and the front filter would be whistle clean. They wouldn't touch it anymore until the filter was changed, so I had them take outside and leave it for me to do. I added some Diesel 911 and put on a new Cat 1R-0749. Which took less than 3 minutes, thankfully, as it was -5F and the truck was on ice/snow and exposed to the wind. brrrr. After priming the system with about 197 pumps it started up and shuddered a bit as the bubbles got all the way out, then purred. Man, did my thumb get COLD! Filled it to the top with some fresh winter mix at the local stop&rob to dilute the 911. Drove home with no problems.

Naturally, when I started the truck at the fuel stop, the Service Break System warning buzzed beeped and flashed !!! Doh! I drove home with it on, cycled the ign at home and it went away.

So, I guess the last fill up on 1/7 must have been straight #2. I don't see how, but even with the Power Service additive it must have gelled up. It has never done it before and has started with no more than 2 cycles on the glow plugs even at -24F. The oil level is still right at the top mark, looks clear and smells like oil. (Mobil Delvac 1 5w40) It's supposed to be -18F tonight, so I'll see how it is tomorrow morning.

I do hope it's not the injectors, but if it is GM seems to be standing behind the repair.

Thanks for the insite guys!
John Bud

Greg, Yes I changed BOTH filters on 11/12. Got the OEM from you, too!
Dmaxallitech, Didn't plug in as it was only in the minus teens. Never been a problem before. It cranked easy and oil pressure was about 90 psi initially. Settled down pretty quick too as it warmed up. Any thought on the break system warning??
Oh, by the way, Yes - I do have the newest '68 GT-E (born on leap year day --> 2/29/68 so it's "only 9 years old") with a 427, C6, 3.55 LS and low miles. It is apart for repairs to the fender aprons and cowl.

Use more additive. Also, at any truck stop, get some rescue 911, in a red bottle. It is just for these type of icing and gelling. There are instructions on the bottle as well.

May also look as to where your filter is located as you may be helping it to ice up with the elements surrounding you.

Ditto on the fuel gelling or icing. Actually it would be the filter waxing or icing. Either one will almost stop the flow of fuel. Either one can be remedied by warming the filter (wife's hair drier works great), get it warm and then get some good additive or a #1 blend in your fuel. Don't take for granted that all fuel is treated the same in winter time. ASK the fuel dealer, some simply add an additive package to regular #2(around here it is good to an advertised -10F) other blend #2 with #1 and could be 70/30,60/40,or 50/50 with the first number being the percentage of #2. Filters will wax or ice before the fuel gels. Icing occurs from small molecules of water that make it to the filter element and then freeze. Most people think that the fuel heater should prevent this but when temps get very cold and the truck is parked outside in the elements, the fuel also gets very cold and that little heater doesn't have a chance. :(

Mine sat for 8 hours today at -22°F and she started. She bucked and snorted a little bit, but she went. No plug in either - thank you 0W40.:D

Yeah, I agree with your explaination on filter waxing or icing being the guilty party. And I did add more additive!

Anybody have thoughts on the "Service Break System" warning? 2 times in 5 starts is serious in my book!

Thanks for all the input!
jb

Anybody have thoughts on the "Service Break System" warning? 2 times in 5 starts is serious in my book!

This happens to my truck when I plow and when it was towed. If the you have a tire that locks up or isn't turning, it cause a system to throw a code.

I get the SBS light on my truck. However,every time it has come on its after ive driven it, and with snow/ice or wet/salted rds...Only once has it come on when its been raining... It may have come on once when it was dry out, but i dont think so. I posted about in the tech section and Max payne posted about there being a software update for it...In the tsb chevy tries to blame in on sometihng do w/cycling of the glow plugs as a root cause....

Dmaxallitech, Didn't plug in as it was only in the minus teens. :eek: I plug mine in any time it will be below 32F. It starts and runs WAAAY better, lugging that big motor along like a big block of ice can't be good. Warm it up first I say.

Cougar, sounds like you got her fixed up. The gelling explains the high vacuum at the test port that your dealer found. I had one few weeks ago with B20 in it, that lost power etc. Found my gauge would PEG instantly when this thing started. Pulled off the new filter that I had installed only a week or so previous on the customers last visit and cut it open, I let it sit and a couple days later, the fuel was still gelled on it. This was inside albiet. Bio-D and sub temps dont mix

Its sounds like a bad batch of fuel. Unfortunately, no matter how new , or old the filters are, gelling and freezing will cause these symptoms.
I had the same symptoms (stalling, no power, smoke) last winter during a brief extreme cold spell. Truck had been at the dealer 3 days before for an oil change , and fuel filter change,and I'm not blaming them for anything.
Truck had to be flatbeded to dealer , let warm up in the bay, and started and ran fine. Dealer flushed fuel filter and lines, put a lot of additive in the fuel. Truck was problem free rest of winter.

I'm not a fanatic like many on here about the fuel filter being changed . I do add Marvel Mystery oil , STP diesel injector additive , and now in this cold weather Stanadyne diesel fuel conditioner. I had not added any anti gel such as the Stanadyne last year - (until the freeze up problem) however one of the moderators on here who lives 9 miles from me , never needed additive last year.

The truck had 52,000 miles at the time, now has 81,000.
I'm not new to the GM diesel family , having put 500,000 miles on an 88 GMC extended cab with 6.2 and close to 250,000 on an 85 shortbed GMC with a 6.2. (as well as a couple OLDS diesels)

I did have one severe fuel gel / freeze up in the 88 during an extremely cold Jan night. Truck started stumbling , and luckilly I had two new filters with me. Although each only lasted about 10 miles, and ended up sleeping at a buddies house since I was still 60 miles from home .

Plugging the truck in will keep the engine block warmer , and it will start easier, but it doesn't help with keeping the fuel warm or gelling since its only warming the block. Onec it goes below 20 degrees F here I try to keep the truck plugged in , for easier starting and quicker heat. After that inital warm fuel thats been next to the block is burned your getting cold fuel.

On a related note, I always wondered if the heater in the OEM filter head would keep the fuel from gelling. I guess not. It must be moving to much fuel too fast threw it for the little heater to do the job. I then wondered if you could just keep it running long enough for the return fuel to heat the fuel in the pickup canister in the tank and that might be enough to keep it warm enough that when it gets to the filter, along with the filter heater, that it would be enough to get her back on her feet. I guess not. The surrounding fuel must slosh into the pickup canister enough that it looses all it's heat. (I'm also aware of the fuel cooler on the return line.)

Steve

The looks like the heater is only heating the fuel coming and going in the valve area of the filter head. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fnsblum2004/detail?.dir=1466&.dnm=4595.jpg&.src=ph
Later! Frank

Press accelerator 1/2 way down when cranking after 3 glow cycles.... she will start..but let it idle for a few minutes, gently operate the brakes, and turn the steering wheel a couple turns lef and right... go into all trans ranges for at least 5 seconds... go back to park and leave the truck to warm up for a few minutes.... engage high idle and turn all heat to off... in 15 minutes you will have no trouble and the temp will come up

In my dmax i have started it at -23C and all i had t do was cycle glow plugs once and it started right up. Brakes, powersteering and tranny here fine. But for that past week its been -40 and then thats when it is hard for brakes, power steering and tranny to move

Thanks for the pic Frank. Yep, I guess it just can't heat the fuel flowing past it hot enough in the short time it's in contact with the fuel. You know, I'm glad it's there, but I wonder why they bothered? Apparently it's really not doing much of anything.

Steve

jeeez,Iam glad I live in san diego, whats with the minus symbel in front of those temps??? 72 today tonight will drop to bone chilling 48. ocean temp is very cold @ 58.not to rub it in or anything.........-michael

jeeez,Iam glad I live in san diego, whats with the minus symbel in front of those temps??? 72 today tonight will drop to bone chilling 48. ocean temp is very cold @ 58.not to rub it in or anything.........-michael
As bugs bunny would say "SHADDAP!!":p

emsi:OK I deserved that.........I really like the beer you guys export,mooshead of course. I might have to wear my dusty old sweater today, just to keep warm while exposing myself to the frigid beer...LOL. just a thought,what is your weather like---

Further update--

I plugged in last night and let it bask in warmth while the temps plunged to -18F(ing) degrees. Truck starts up fine, but still goes about 15 sec on the glow plugs. I didn't drive anywhere as the wife is out at church and I don't relish walking home IF anything bad were to occur!

On the Service Break System warning. It has come on when the engine is initally started. No vehicle motion at all. So the thougth of a sticking / locked up wheel does not apply.

Oh and Mr. Michael Nelson, When driving 10 miles to work, I hit a half dozen lights and will see only 50-100 other cars. Never a traffic jam, always clean air and I get thru the intersections on one cycle of the traffic lights! Not to rub it in or anything...

Have a happy!!
John Bud

emsi:OK I deserved that.........I really like the beer you guys export,mooshead of course. I might have to wear my dusty old sweater today, just to keep warm while exposing myself to the frigid beer...LOL. just a thought,what is your weather like---
The last week or so we've been pushing the envelope of where the two scales of measurement come together. Around -40°F or C at night and with the wind the lowest I've heard the last week is -60°F. :cool: It's warming up now, the ole mecury is suppossed to climb all the way to -1°F today, time for some Sunscreen.:D

couger:you got me there,on my way to work I see 100,000 red lights on the freeway,average speed about 35 mph, takes about 30 to40 mins to go 15 miles....as for the smog, its not that bad here,do to the onshore flow.

well at least you can roll down your window in traffic. Mine has been frozen shut for about 2 weeks now. Just checked the temp at -35c. I forgot to plug in last night and it started this afternoon at a balmy -30c. Glow plugs stayed on forever but ran quite well. I love that 0w40 syn. I drove about 700km over the last few days and had no problems at all other than getting the darned fuel out of the pumps and into the truck. I have better luck in the winter with a diesel than I have had with a gasser.

Can't believe you guys don't plug your trucks in. I plug mine in when the temp get below freezing. Makes it soo much easier on the starter and the engine itself.
That and it warm up the cab a whole lot quicker too.

A few weeks ago it got down to 2F and I did not have it plugged in as I was not supposed to go anywhere. Well, I ended up needing the truck and it started fine but it took 20 miles of driving before it warmed up properly.

I make weekly trips to upsate NY for some fun in the snow and have had nights where it was -40°f had the truck plugged in turned the key waited for the glow plug light to go out cranked right up no sputtering or anything. Have never had the SBS light come on, maybe because my truck only has about 25,000 miles on it.

I got a service ABS on my DIC for no reason one day. Wet roads but not sloppy. No real reason it went off. The only thing I could figure is I was also getting a low washer fluid and something freaked out and set the ABS off.

The same SBS message greeted me this mornings so I called the dealer. They didn't want it when the message was on the DIC (too busy!). Took the truck in for the evening shift. Of course, the first thing they said was "is the message on the truck now? Well we can't do much without the message!" -:t Just makes me sick, when the service writers keep the techs from the information they need to solve my problem.

Naturally, they found nothing. The tech did clean the grounds up. It has the latest flash, so they sent me on my way with a "call us if it happens again!" As it has only happened when it was below -8F, I will have to check it out tomorrow morning, if it's cold enough.

It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was "Service Windshield Wipers" or "Check Tire Pressure". I kinda want to know that the breakes are going to work when I need them. Wife won't drive it until it's fixed. Can't blame her.


John Bud

I had the same problem as you. I don't know what the TSB # is, but it's in the TSB section somewhere on the forum. What GM needs to do is reprogram your EBCM, not the ECM. Mind would set off the code nearly every time I started the truck. TSB claimed something in the cranking cycle caused this, but whatever. I took the truck to GM with a copy of the TSB in my hand and told them what the problem was seeing as they'd spent many visits trying to troubleshoot. It's strange though, I've never seen the message come up since.

hmmmmm......

I had the same problem as you. I don't know what the TSB # is, but it's in the TSB section somewhere on the forum. What GM needs to do is reprogram your EBCM, not the ECM. Mind would set off the code nearly every time I started the truck. TSB claimed something in the cranking cycle caused this, but whatever. I took the truck to GM with a copy of the TSB in my hand and told them what the problem was seeing as they'd spent many visits trying to troubleshoot. It's strange though, I've never seen the message come up since.

hmmmmm......