I have been trying to get this refalsh done on my truck. My dealer knows nothing about it. He needs a some kind of bulleting number or some other way to look it up. Is there anything that I can tell him to help him find this in his system?

04 6.6 LLY Smoke , Fuel Knock , Surging and High Injector Balance Rates - kw white black idle surge rough noise accelerate P0300 P0301 P0302 P0303 P0304 P0305 P0306 P0307 P0308 miss misfire SES DTC #PIP3129 - (Sep 10, 2004)[

04 6.6 LLY Smoke, Fuel Knock, Surging, and High Injector Balance Rates
.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom described in the PI.

Condition/Concern:

Customer concern may be a low speed surge (8 to 10 mph or near 1000 RPM), acceleration fuel knock noise at 1500 to 1800 RPM, rough idle, white smoke at idle, or high positive injector balance rates.

Recommendation/Instructions:

High positive injector balance rates (over +4.0 in park or +6.0 in drive) may be causing white smoke at idle or while driving.

Document all injector cylinder balance rates at the beginning of the diagnosis.

There is an updated calibration to address the white smoke, high positive balance rates, idle surge, and a fuel knock noise at or near 1500 to 1800 RPM.

Install the updated calibration and evaluate the smoking, high injector balance rates, idle surge, and fuel knock noises.

If there is still a mechanical concern with an injector, and balance rates are still over the SI specification of +4.0 in park or +6.0 in drive, replace only the effected injector.

Yes, the number you quoted (#PIP3129 )is NOT a program number or a DTC,
but is actually the Preliminary Information bulletin number.
Service information Document ID# 1557897 or bulletin #PIP3129 (Any dealer should have no problem finding it.)

I did mine yesterday, but honestly don't see much change. I did have the loping engine on slight throttle, but didn't consider it objectionable. I haven't felt it since the software update.
Ed

I had my reflash done and it made a real diffrence. All you should have to do is go into the dealer and make shure his Tech 2 has the most current software! This is important! He will download it from the satalite. Once that is done he just plugs in his Tech 2 and it will tell him if there is an update for your truck.

Strange, I went to the dealer yesterday for idle surge etc. I don't have any symptoms that are terrible reaqlly, I just wanted the latest software. He said I had all the current ECM codes and shoed me a bunch of codes (part numbers he said, a bunch of 8 digit numbers with descriptions, "operating system" thru "speedometer").

The flash came out in September, truck built in April. I don't get it. Do they just not know what they are doing?

masterp, a dealer near me said the same until he downloaded it from the satellite and saw the new load.

Thanks guys. I have my dealer looking into it.

Does my build date 11/04 need to be reflashed???

Jeff...itmight need the reflash as factory program lags behind the updates for whatever reason. Max power.....as mentioned before....the tech needs to download the latest updates....there was definitely an update available as of mid sept...between the 10th and 14th maybe? Had a significant impact on my truck...however it was one of the first lly's built. Hope you get it worked out.

keep on the dealers for this reflash. It IS out there. It took me 5 dealers to finally get one mechanic to take my word and do more checking..turns out I did NOT have the latest code like the other 4 dealers had stated and this mechanic flashed it with no problem at all.

I had service reps, mechanics, and service managers tell me to my face that there is no bulletin with this number and that I had the latest code. I even took the printout of PIP3129 with me which is an internal GM document.

PIP3129B is the latest one out there, but they should be able to find it by either number. Print that out and take it with you.

After the reflash my truck is much smoother and the mechanic showed me that I did in fact have injectors out of balance. He again showed me after the flash they were all within spec.

I just installed Edge back on and it runs flawlessly!
Good luck

I don't think the dealers keep their software very current. I took my truck in today for surging and a strong fuel smell, even took in a printout of the symptons as detailed in Max Powers post above.

They drove my truck and said it was fine. When I asked them about updated software they said I was current. The truck was built in Apr/May time frame and was last in the shop in July - I am pretty confident it is NOT current.

When I asked the service rep how often they update their software, I was told about every SIX MONTHS and I should check back in the summer! Its frustrating - we shouldn't have to keep on the dealers to update their Censored software. I'm keeping busy doing my own job.

Overall I am happy with the truck. I would like to get my injector balances checked and the reflash as my gas mileage currently stinks - IMHO. I'm getting 11 MPG on winterized fuel and mostly town driving. As I have been watching the mileage, I have been making a real effort to drive conservatively. I am hoping more miles on the engine (currently 5700) will help. A buddy of mine bought a cummins the same time I bought my DMax and he is seeing around 15-16 in town with roughly the same mileage. Nice MPG, but who would want to drive a dodge ):h

Not to burst anyones bubble, but do you know this re-flash takes away power? I fought with my dealer and GM to put back my old flash as I lost a lot of towing power (They flashed it while doing other warranty work). They finally issued my dealer a VCI number and put the old program back in, and the power is back. You may not notice the loss unless you tow (I tow 12,000 pound 5er). The service tech admitted to me it lowers the rail pressure and there will be a loss of about 50-80 fp of torque.

I'll believe it when I see it on a dyno.

My dyno it the cajon pass in socal, I tow up it often. Before the flash, I would pull it at 65 MPH full throttle. After the flash, it barely went 55. I don't need any more proof than that.

briano ,,,What dealer did you finally get to reflash,,I need one to check mine. I'm in San Marcos for the winter. Had mine checked in Oklahoma, but not sure about it.

Rob

Have you posted this before on another thread? I had seen someone else say this.

Max Power. Look at the dyno run on "where's the torque" thread. I think that was Kennedy's 2005. Dodge did the same thing in 2003 and called it the CO2 recall but at least the driveabilty improved (smoother bottom end). Thanx Geo.

My LLY was reflashed about 4 weeks ago with good results, i.e. better mpg's, smooth acceleration, etc. I towed my 5ver which as it sits right now is about 15k lbs and the truck seems more fluid throughout the entire gear range, sorta like a mini-tow tune. Maybe I'm crazy (quiet MP2) but the ally seems to like the reflash as well, don't really know why? ;)

I'm not sure how close dyno's come to real world driving but I'm pleased so far. Robsauto, did the low idle surge and smoking come back after they reflashed again? I'm curious, on the TSB that MaxPower posted GM tells the service techs that if the reflash doesn't bring the rail pressure and injector balances into sync then you likely have a bad injector. Most guys that have had the reflash are posting positive results, maybe there is something else, that is unless you have towed the Cajon Pass again with no problems! :confused:

One might wander why would GM reduce the HP/TQ of the LLY only to fall behind Ford and Dodge in the "beefiest" diesel truck category just to eliminate a low idle surge and some smoking. Most LLY owners are thrilled with the way their trucks are running! The answer is out there! Later. JJ :)

JimmsGimmy..you have a private message.

The rest of ya'll... if you get the flash and your truck goes down in power then you more than likely have injector issues or something else related. It looks like this bug is actually causing injectors to go if not taken care of soon so after the flash the injectors are already flaky and now the computer tells them to have a different balance rate.

My experience was just the opposite..I had pulled a car trailer and car and my truck acted like I was going up a steep hill..I couldn't figure it out. After the reflash my truck is much smoother and the power is there once again. I pulled the same car trailer and bigger car this time with no effort at all.

anyways, good luck all

Interesting conflicting reports here. Still dunno what to do. My truck does only get about 11.5 mpg around the farm and in town, but I drive with my foot to the floor. However it runs great, no real surging or fuel smell or anything.
Truck built 4-04

Robsauto2, did your LLY return to normal after they reinstalled the original program? JJ :)

Putting the lower tourque issue aside, my reflash has given me nothing but great results. I had NO reason to have the reflash done as my truck was performing like a fine tuned watch, but then for the sake of doing the reflash just to have the latest software on it - it now runs even better than a fine tuned watch, if that’s possible.

I don’t notice the torque issues as I don’t pull with it, but I do notice a huge jump in MPG and a smooth peddle responce.

Where can I go to get a copy of the PIP3129 bulletin? My dealer acted like I was crazy when I mentioned this to him. The only thing he said "Is the check engine light on?". Its getting to be rather discourging to be paying this much for a truck and its not the same as it was when I first got it.

Long Time Reader, first time post,

My wife and I were on vacation in North Eastern Oregon mid Sept 2004, with our 2004 2500 HD Duramax 6.6, only 3000 miles. While pulling our 5th wheel, and climbing a pretty steep hill, all the trouble lights started going off on the dash, we used the On star feature and asked for a diagnostics check, they reported brake problems. Ok, we're pulling this heavy 5th wheel on these steep hills with brake problems, (not a pretty picture)so we called ahead to LaGrande, Oregon GMC, They advised us to bring it in right away, they bumped a couple of locals cars so they could get us back on vacation. The tech that worked on our truck downloaded the latest update and installed it, replaced a tranmisson sensor, and had us hook up our 5th wheel, and drive 10 mile steep portion of Interstate 84 with their computer hooked up to the truck in case we still had the same problem. Needless to say the tech fixed the problem, but they did treat us first class, the tech even gave us a few suggestions concerning the Edge chip we had on our truck, and what settings we should run it on, (of course we had it disconnected when we brought it in)

Where can I go to get a copy of the PIP3129 bulletin? My dealer acted like I was crazy when I mentioned this to him. The only thing he said "Is the check engine light on?". Its getting to be rather discourging to be paying this much for a truck and its not the same as it was when I first got it.

what he said:cool:

SEARCH!

mratbrat, are we to assume the reflash improved the LLY's towing performance? Hats off to the dealership! JJ

Where can I go to get a copy of the PIP3129 bulletin?
http://dieselplace.com/forum/search.php?searchid=39283

Hey all, my truck never had the smoking issue that the reflash addressed. It ran fine since the day it was new. I did feel some surging off idle at slow speeds though. The dealer did replace all 8 injectors 2 weeks after the reflash because he said some were not balancing out. It ran exactly the same after those were replaced. I guess if you are not going to tow a real heavy load, have it done. It did run smoother after the reflash, however I never saw any improvment in milage as some have stated. I called Hypertech and talked to them about the reflash, they said they were aware of it and yes, it takes away some power. A friend of mine sells them and gave me a new one to try out, but it wouldnt download because it did not recognize the new flash. Hypertech said send it to them and they will re-program it to work with the new flash. I never did because I wanted to get the old flash back and didn't want to mess with anything untill GM resolved this. So now I can try the Hypertech I guess. Or maybe the Edge, or the Bully dog, or the.......OK, I wont go there!!

I have a question for the people with the reflash reporting better mileage. Do you hand calculate or do you use the DIC? Do you compare the total fuel used on the DIC with what you pumped into the truck? THe reason I ask (I calculate every tank, old habit from early days when I started my business) is, my truck was pretty accurate before the reflash (within 1-2%) on the DIC, but after it reads 10-12% optomistic. Makes me wonder if they where trying to make me feel better ( it's actually about the same). thanx geo.

Geo, I calculate MPG's the old fashioned way: fill truck up til I see diesel in the filler neck; drive the truck; refill to same level in filler neck; divide miles driven by gallons used; WALLAH! :cool:

JJ's confused boyz! I am having a hard time being convinced GM lowered the hp/tq rating of the LLY's with this, or any reflash! The 05's are rated with slightly higher hp/tq to stay even with or ahead of the other manufacturers. Isn't the LLY in the 04.5's the same as the 05's, just different programming to boost hp/tq? :confused:

I had my LLY reflashed about 5 weeks ago with very positive results. The truck just flat runs better all around. I tow heavy, actually very heavy at or above GCWR with my 5ver, and I have no indication of any loss of power when pulling it, actually seems to pull better. There has to be a factual answer to this!

If the reflash reduces rail pressure does this automatically equate to less hp/tq? Injector balance rates? I'm throwing these out knowing there is much more to these things than I'm aware of. :confused:

There are several LLY owners that are hesitant to have their trucks reflashed for fear of losing power. Its time to put this in either a "FACT" or "MYTH" column! You techie types will have to chime in on the best way to do this, JJ's best at raising questions, not much good at answering them! JJ :)

Max Power, did you get yours done yet?

JJ,

In regard to your desire to place the reflash power issue in the "fact" or "myth" column, I think another thread definatively put it in the "myth" column.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20822

Here is note number 8, posted by Ted Jannettty on 01-04-2005 at 1:02PM:

***********
I have August built 05 Crew cab dually, dynoed on my Superflow at 244 hp 444 torque.
I did the reflash and redynoed at 252 hp 460 torque.
260 miles and 420 miles on odometer when dynoed.
So if you have an 04 or early 05 the reflash sets them to 605 flywheel torque.
__________________
Ted Jannetty, President Jannetty Racing Enterprises, Inc.
2984 East Main St. Waterbury Ct. 06705
203-753-7223

************

Also, Max Payne has some interesting comments in the same thread. My take is that after the reflash, the vehicle becomes a current production 2005 truck powerwise, with all the fixes addressing drivability issues.

The history appears to be:

Jan., 2004: Original 2004.5 LLY flash, 590 lb torque, with idle, surge, smoke issues.

July, 2004: 2005 LLY flash at 605 lb torque, still with idle, surge, smoke issues.

Sept, 2004: New LLY flash for both 2004.5 and 2005, at 605lb torque, with fixes for idle, surge, and smoke issues. This flash started to appear in 2005 trucks arriving near the end of October, or November.

I tend to agree with a statement I believe you made in a eariler post suggesting that those folks suffering a power loss may have some other issues to fix.

so does the reflash fix the concerns and add 605lb or neither

Now that just depends. Do you feel lucky punk? Well do you? :eek:

I love that line! ):h I was a big Clint fan til he hooked up with those dang monkeys. :rolleyes:

If you trust the dyno numbers from Jannetty Racing Enterprises and most of the guys that have posted regarding their LLY reflash's (seat of the pants opinion)there doesn't appear to be a loss of power. The more I think about it GM would be in a very bad position if they intentionally downgraded the LLY motors HP/TQ since everyone of us could go back against them and try a buyback just to get our hands on an 05.
That being said, several are not going to believe this, if it were my truck still running badly I wouldn't either. So as is often the case you are left to make your own decision. I believe most of the guys that have reflashed have posted positive. Hey you know what, this is perfect for a poll! Standby! JJ :)

Max Power, did you get yours done yet?
Not yet. I don't know if my dealer has figured it out yet and I haven't had time to check up on it. :(

My dealer said yesterday that they will not reflash unless there it is throwing a code. He also stated that if there is anykind of injector problem at all it would throw a code. I honestly don't think they have a clue. This is the problem of being in a small town. Going to call a bigger dealership in another city and see what they have to say about it. I would like to get mine reflashed as I am getting what I consider terrible mileage. Jeff

I have just over 15K on my early 04 lly. I had the pip3129 put on my truck today. I will see how it works. I just told them that it smokes a bit, which it did, and had that parking lot surge. They were happy to take care of it. I talked to the tech he said that all of the injectors were in balance and correct before and after the flash. I also asked him about this flash lowering the rail pressure. He said that he checked it before and after and both times it was at 140, so the new flash doesn't lower the rail pressure to 80. It all sounded like good news. :)

Its unfourtunate that service managers think there needs to be a code "set" to warrant a re-flash. I don't beleive this is gm policy either. Maybe contact gm and make them aware of the situation.

I pressed the shop foreman at my dealer as to why It lost power, and he stated the flash does lower the rail pressure under certain driving conditions. Maybe your tech tested it at idle? Then he said GM is having some problems with overheating, and less power= less heat, less fuel =less smoke. Someone said their truck runs cooler after the flash, so that makes sense. I asked him if they could just flash it up to 2005 calibration and get the 605 foot pounds the new trucks have, he said no way, the 05 has a different turbo boost gate that is electronicly controlled instead of vacuum? Anybody know if this is true? Here are the cal numbers that were changed in my truck:

Engine operation: Old cal 15133403 CVN 0000adcf

New cal 15245557 CVN 000031df

Engine: Old cal 15133403

New cal 15245549
My scanner now shows the old cal back in it so I know they did it.
The other 5 cal numbers remained the same.

so does the reflash fix the concerns and add 605lb or neither

My understanding is the reflash on 2004.5 does both: addresses the concerns and upgrades the torque to that of the 2005 (which is 605 lb).

As I recall, Max Payne, who is a sharp tech, has posted some notes saying the 2004.5 reflash and the current production 2005 both use the same calibration. He also mentioned in a note that he could not find any difference in engine parts between the two model years. So, if the computer code is the same between the two years, and the engines use the same parts, then it makes sense that both are the same power. This is consistent with the dyno results quoted above.

[QUOTE=Robsauto2]he said no way, the 05 has a different turbo boost gate that is electronicly controlled instead of vacuum? Anybody know if this is true? QUOTE]


All LLY motors have an electronically controlled turbo. In fact I don't believe they even technically have a wastegate, just variable vanes to control boost and backpressure. Vacuum controlled wastegates would be the type found on the the LB7 motors.

Kelly

BH just gave me an idea. Maybe someone here who has an 05 can go to http://calid.gm.com/vci/VINEntryPre.do Type in your VIN, then post all 7 calibration numbers. I will post mine and we can compare them.

I can tell you that my truck feels much stronger off the line. There is construction on my street and I have never peeled out on the gravel before. Now I have to be careful because it does. Plus my fuel milage has gone up about 1.5-2 mpg doing the exact same driving. I am very happy with the flash so far.

The tech checked the fuel rail pressure in and out of park.

Going to pick my truck up in a couple hrs. after another two days with the dealer. Service advisor said "the injectors checked out fine and he finally found the bulletin on the reflash, so he went ahead and did it." I can only hope that he did but I have my doubts. Why would it take two days to complete it?

Just a quick update to my previous post. My truck was reflashed on December 10th, noticed improved mpg's, ran smoother/quieter, just seems to have more power. Towed the 5ver and noted improved tow power.

Yesterday I prepped and loaded the 5ver for a 3 week business run. While airing up the tires I noticed the trailer tires were 13-15lbs low per tire and the truck tires were at 60psi versus 80psi for towing. When I pulled the rig right after reflash I noted the increase in power even with significantly low air in the tires. :confused:

Loaded this a.m. the 5ver was right around 16k lbs. I took it for a quick spin to adjust brakes and to make sure all was well. Imagine my surprise at how well the LLY yanked the 5ver up/out of the hole and up to operating speeds. Very smooth transition of power between the gears, I can't help but believe there is more hp/tq than before. :confused:

If you haven't posted on the "LLY reflash" poll please do so. We're trying to get a feel for how it is working. Later. JJ :)

Oh yeah, Mr. Mister, I did the same thing with my dually just to see if it would spin out - EASY! JJ's Happy!

Why would it take two days to complete it?
That's how long it takes to do minor body work.

That's how long it takes to do minor body work.
LMAO.........):h

I tried to get my Numbers but after 20 minutes of it serching I gave up. Will try tomorrow

Mama JJ just phoned in with first mpg figures: 10mpg towing 65mph @ 24k lbs GCW! SWEET! BTW, it is actually a bit higher due to about 30 miles of stop and go before hitting the highway. Before reflash I was averaging about 8mpg that heavy. Somethings working better? JJ

I had the same problem with it searching, found out you have to turn off any pop-up controls that are runnung on your browser, At least with AOL I did.

Just went to the website and typed in the VIN. Seems I should have the latest flash (my truck was build 09/04). At least thats whats supposed to be programmed into the PCM of my truck - but how do I know it really is? I guess I really need a scanner for that?
I am NOT really happy with my truck since its too noisy between 1500 and 2000 RPM and I did not notice that kind of noise when it was new. Its far from smooth in my opinion. My 150 K miles 10 year old Landcruiser w/o common rail injection (just direct injection) was not that noisy. But what shall I do if I have the latest reflash already?

Here is the info from my truck:

<table align="left" border="3" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <thead><tr><th align="center">Part Number</th><th align="center">CVN</th><th align="center">Bulletin #</th><th align="center" width="70%">Description</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">15193867</td><td align="center">00000006</td><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">0</td><td rowspan="1" align="left" valign="middle">ENGINE</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">15233727</td><td align="center">N/A</td><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">0</td><td rowspan="1" align="left" valign="middle">New calibration to correct problem occuring at the assembly plant, does not address any service issues For use in vehicles with dual fuel tanks.</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">15245551</td><td align="center">0000B40C</td><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">0</td><td rowspan="1" align="left" valign="middle">Service cal fixes: engine combustion knock elimination/reduction at 80 to 140 Mpa rail pressure under light to medium throttle driving, rough idling and white smoking condition elimination/reduction, low speed light throttle driving surge elimination</td></tr><tr><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">15246464</td><td align="center">0000F4F1</td><td rowspan="1" align="center" valign="middle">0</td><td rowspan="1" align="left" valign="middle">Part number change only, does not address any service issues.</td></tr></tbody> </table>

heres mine for an 04.5

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><THEAD><TR><TH scope=col>Part Number</TH><TH scope=col>CVN</TH><TH scope=col>Description</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15245557</TD><TD align=middle>000031DF</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Service cal fixes: engine combustion knock elimination/reduction at 80 to 140 Mpa rail pressure under light to medium throttle driving, rough idling and white smoking condition elimination/reduction, low speed light throttle driving surge elimination</TD></TR></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15133403</TD><TD align=middle>0000ADCF</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Engine Operation</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>










<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15245549</TD><TD align=middle>00001B8B</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Service cal fixes: engine combustion knock elimination/reduction at 80 to 140 Mpa rail pressure under light to medium throttle driving, rough idling and white smoking condition elimination/reduction, low speed light throttle driving surge elimination</TD></TR></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15133401</TD><TD align=middle>000019A9</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>ENGINE</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>








<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15282640</TD><TD align=middle>0000EBD5</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>New calibration to reduce the potential for the engine coolant hot temperature telltale coming on prematurely.</TD></TR></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15087279</TD><TD align=middle>00006178</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>SYSTEM</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>






<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR bottomborder="1"><TH align=middle colSpan=2>History</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- Call tag w/ parts list, let tag code handle panel creation--><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><THEAD><TR><TH scope=col>Part Number</TH><TH scope=col>CVN</TH><TH scope=col>Description</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15141668</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Operating system</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>21996487</TD><TD align=middle>000040E4</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Engine diagnostic</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15136389</TD><TD align=middle>0000398F</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>Fuel system</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle>15087291</TD><TD align=middle>0000C90A</TD><TD vAlign=center align=left>SPEEDOMETER</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I have studied that VIN checking system in more detail. It only gives the info whats available for that particular VIN but not more and has nothing to do whats really there programmend in that module. I checked the Module Rear Wheel Steering and it also came up (as if I have it on my truck...)
Maybe I have misunderstood...nice feature anyway.

It prooves that the rail pressure was reduced indeed by that reflash (but probably NOT on my truck since its noisy and somebody mentioned it was only standard on OCT or NOV 04 trucks and mine was build just before that.

Nice info as always any way....love that forum every day more and more....thanks guys!

GM Vehicle Calibration Information
Copyright © General Motors Corporation.



VIN: 1GTHK39284E305614

Calibration History for :Operating system
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15141668 N/A 0 Operating system



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :Engine Operation
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15133403 0000ADCF 0 Engine Operation
15245557 000031DF 0 Service cal fixes: engine combustion knock elimination/reduction at 80 to 140 Mpa rail pressure under light to medium throttle driving, rough idling and white smoking condition elimination/reduction, low speed light throttle driving surge elimination



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :Engine
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15133401 000019A9 0 ENGINE
15245549 00001B8B 0 Service cal fixes: engine combustion knock elimination/reduction at 80 to 140 Mpa rail pressure under light to medium throttle driving, rough idling and white smoking condition elimination/reduction, low speed light throttle driving surge elimination



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :Engine diagnostic
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
21996491 00003659 0 Engine diagnostic



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :Fuel system
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15136386 00004605 0 Fuel system



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :System
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15087279 00006178 0 SYSTEM
15282640 0000EBD5 0 New calibration to reduce the potential for the engine coolant hot temperature telltale coming on prematurely.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calibration History for :Speedometer
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
15101420 000055FC 0 SPEEDOMETER



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Copyright General Motors Corporation 2003. All rights Reserved. Copyright and Trademark Info.

15282640

Rob

Betcha a donut that's the one that zapped the power. GM is slick. Slipped that one under the carpet for the overheats, what better to eliminate overheat that to eliminate the "heat".

15282640 0000EBD5 0 New calibration to reduce the potential for the engine coolant hot temperature telltale coming on prematurely.

OK MP2, I'll bite! Why would recalibrating the coolant hot temperature have to do with loss of power?

Oh yeah, I need to find my VIN so I can do this to. JJ :)

I'm on the GM site, which PCM calibration do I want: NORMAL or RECALIBRATION? JJ

An interpretive shot in the dark, that it's double talk for "if we take the power away, you can't overheat", an overheat fix disguised. I think TxChris may have eluded to this as a potential fix, specifically, code that would reduce boost if I recall.

It's one of the last codes developed, bet if you are not complaining about a power loss, you don't have this one.

I've been waiting 10 minutes for GM's site to provide my VIN info. Is this typical? :mad:

So what kind of headway are we making, factually, that we didn't know before? Some say the tech checked rail pressure before and after reflash and they were the same so no reduction in rail pressure! Another says their VIN data definitely shows a reduction in rail pressure! :confused: We don't appear to be getting any definitive answers. So we'll go back to the ol seat of the pants opinions for a second! ):h

Current LLY reflash poll shows over 80% posting positive results after reflash, 25% very satisfied with more power, smoother running engine, etc. I'm one of the latter. Some have stated you won't notice the power until you have to tow something heavy, well Mama JJ just towed our 16k lb 5ver from J'ville to Charleston and posted 10mpg, an increase of 2mpg post reflash. JJ ain't dreaming this sh_t up! My truck just seems to get the power to the wheels better since it was reflashed, so until proven otherwise "That's my story and I'm sticking to it!" ):h

OK, I've been typing for another 5, err make that 10 minutes and the GM site still hasn't given me anything. JJ's tired, good night John boy! JJ ):h

JJ, if you have pop-up controls you need to turn them off so it will work.

Masterp, your right on the money with that. Like I said before, GM has a problem with some of these LLY's getting hot while towing. I have a friend (Russ) who has an overheating LLY. He just won all his money back in arbitration with GM last week. The rail pressure will be the same at idle in gear or out. Moniter it under acceleration, thats when you will see lower pressure. The shop foreman told me (off the record) that this re-flash will cut down on a lot of warranty issues, thats the real reason for it. Also, the hot lite thing is new to me, my cal did not have that in it. So what about the 05 having more power? I was told by Russ the 05 has many changes to the cooling system, larger radiator, fan driven 7% faster, re-engineered airflow through the frontal area, etc. Russ did all his homework before he went to arbitration, and there is a lot of covering up going on by GM about this. Its simple really: less fuel (and turbo boost) in a diesel means less heat, less noise, smoother delivery, better MPG. Ever notice people complaining about the noise increase with their bullydog or other box? and more smoke? If the re-flash really is that good, how can you have more power, more MPG, and less smoke? That don't make sense. All I know is I lost a full 10 MPH pulling the same grade after the re-flash.

JJ, Your a hell of a good chearleader. Rock on! I guess we need a dyno showdown now, or cross nation pull-off (compare torque and mileage), or a drag race with wieght to compare the 2004 before and after reflash and a late 2005. Anybody got nothin to do that lives close together. I think some people spend more time behind the computor than the wheel. thanx geo.

Rob, i would like some qualifying information on front end changes to the 05 for cooling, I have not seen anyone who could spot a difference between 04 and 05. Especially airflow I am interested in.

Does anyone have an 05 in Phoenix that can drop by for a side by side comparison?

Facts, facts, facts!!!!!! Go back and read the posts fellas. One service manager tells one of us the rail pressure is the same after reflash, another it is until you actually drive the truck? :rolleyes: The only "technical" intel anyone has provided was that racing dude that dynoed his 04.5 before and after reflash and his truck now shows the 05 hp/tq numbers! :mad: I know, that depends upon the type of dyno he used? However, many of the "Power Freaks" on this site would say his numbers are likely accurate. So who or what do we believe? GM? ):h

Robsauto2, it would be great if your friend Russ could provide us with a link to the "inside info" GM is hiding about these trucks. While I love my 04.5, I wouldn't mind upgrading to an 05 with a sunroof, I'll just transfer all my goodies to the new truck! ):h Also, there is one thing I noted back on one of your original posts that may hold some valuable intel for us. I can't go back and paste it without losing what I have already typed but didn't you state previously that when you tackled this mountain pass you were at wide open throttle, hence maximum boost, both before and after reflash? If that is the case this may explain why some of us aren't experiencing the same loss of power while towing heavy because we haven't operated in that range, at least not yet! MP2, did JJ just step on his crank again trying to talk techie stuff? :confused:

To save us considerable time and frustration I propose we have certain phrases that are forbidden on the DP site.Censored These are: The service manager told me; The tech told me; My buddie told me; etc., etc., etc. You see where I'm going with this! If I did a poll on how many service managers, techs, and buddies gave us bad intel it would be in the 80-90%+ range. :p Bad intel only serves to divert us from getting to factual reality! (I should patent that?):h )

Nobody is as long in the tooth as ol JJ, but we're going in circles. MP2, Geo, Fingers and other techie types have to know what information, test or technical documentation will nail this issue! So let's decide on that and pursue it and put this to rest. Please? :cool:

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader for or against the reflash, just trying to zero in on what is really happening. This thread is starting to look a lot like the "LLY Overheating" thread which is now 40+ pages long with no answer! MP2, dejavue? ):h

I'm going to try and download the info on my truck again. Thanks Donnie1, I did have pop-up blocker on before so that wasn't the problem. Later. JJ :)

Found it. Robsauto2 states: "My dyno it the cajon pass in socal, I tow up it often. Before the flash, I would pull it at 65 MPH full throttle. After the flash, it barely went 55. I don't need any more proof than that."

Full throttle! If the reflash reduces max boost shouldn't this equate to less power at WOT? Yet with a change in the injector balance rates could we actually have more power at less boost? Huh? JJ

Jannetty Racing used a Superflow dyno. Geo, any good? JJ

JJ, I support your statements. We do get carried away in speculative brainstorming that often leads nowhere. We do need a hall monitor for this.

GM probably follows this forum on their lunchbreak for entertainment.

I don't know about you guys, and I have not read all 7 pages (I know, shame on me), but I do have a different MPG number than before the reflash. Yes, I'm going to use a forbidden phrase: The service rep told me that the tech applied the latest re-flash. I was getting almost 20 MPG in town (~60 mph on the loop) before the re-flash and with cruise engaged. Now (after the re-flash), I get 18 mpg at ~60 mph. I get 18 mpg going 70 mph as well. That pisses me off. I want those extra 2 MPG!!!

I'm done now.

JT

I know, I get 18 mpg going 93 mph. There's nothing you can do about tit.

Gruffid, DIC mileage or hand calculated? The reflash appears to throw off the DIC's accuracy for some reason.

MP2, what about the boost at WOT issue? We discussed this on the overheating thread. If our overheating theory is correct shouldn't Robsauto2 be toasting his LLY at that elevation at WOT towing that heavy? Robsauto2, do you recall what your engine temps were towing up the pass with the 5ver at WOT? This may help us on the overheating thread. Maybe the reflash does help? Good intel here! JJ :)

Hey JJ, towing up the pass at WOT my coolant temp is at 210. And the fan clutch is howling like a 747. Trans temp is about 190-200. Ambient temp around 50. Your right about buddies, service techs, etc. Who do you trust? Your also right about my towing at full throttle up that pass. You may not notice the loss if you don't tow like that. I suspect thats what is going on here. I assumed most towed WOT on long grades like I do. If you don't, then you may not notice the loss. I'm sure Russ would really like to help out with the overheating issue, in fact he may have posted on this site before about it (or at trailerlife.com?) I think his screen name is "Russmonster". He told me the GMC does not overheat as bad as the Chevy because of the grill design? I guess I will find out when it heats up this spring. I will also call him about his info on the 05 truck. He is currently trying to decide if he will buy a new Ford or "re-designed" 05 Chevy. I hope he buys the Chevy, he will put it to the test. I will let ya know...

Russmonster was a regular poster on the DP site, but his last post was on 4 December. He burned up 2 LLY motors, guess GM decided they were money ahead to buy him out. :ro) From the sound of his posts I would be very surprised if he touched another LLY. It would be great to have any inside scoop against GM that he could provide. ;)

Now back to those temps since it may help us with the overheating issue as well. I noted your profile says you are all stock. Did your LLY run hotter before the reflash on that same pass at WOT? Most of the guys posting overheating conditions would have puked their LLY's at that GCW and altitude at WOT. My engine temps would definitely have gone over 210*, normally up to 225-230* pulling a long grade.

Also, does your LLY seem to pull better than before during normal towing conditions, say when not at WOT climbing:confused: ? JJ :)

Rob, clarifying JJ's question,

we just need to know if you feel like the truck runs cooler on WOT pulling, after the flash.

I think I found the problem with these newer diesels. While researching off this site and polling the local owners, I discovered that GM and the rest of the manufacturers are supplying us with too much power. Then to fool us, they (sneaky guys) installed different nuts to connect the steering wheel to the engine. I have found some to be SAE, some metric, and even a couple of witworth ones. This has led to confusion amongst the owners as to different power delivery characteristics. If they would just give us back the old 160hp diesels they wouldn't get away with this because we would need to floor it all the time to move these 8000lb trucks. This would lead to more consistent reports for us to compare. I won't get my hopes up though because I think that the manufacturers plan it this way to keep us buying new trucks. If you have a SAE nut connection and hear about the smoother metric one, it makes you want to own one. Just think, if we all had equal power and mileage, trouble free trucks that last a million miles, and got high twenty's to thirty's for mileage, wouldn't it be boring. The manufacturers are pretty smart and probably spend way more money on researching this form of planned obsolesense than the engine management (which is way easier to figure out) in a new diesel. p.s. in my opionion the manufacturer will side with less power to cure a problem rather than more power. thanx geo.

MP2, thanks for the clarification. Sometimes my mind goes faster than I can type and the context gets a bit Censored up. JJ ):h

No, there is no difference in towing coolant temp after the flash.



Rob, clarifying JJ's question,

we just need to know if you feel like the truck runs cooler on WOT pulling, after the flash.

Hey JJ, as far as towing under non-WOT conditions, it felt less powerful to me. Leaving my house, there is a small hill, maybe 1/8 mile or so, and I had to use more throttle just to get it going after the flash. I just felt an all around loss of power. After my old flash was re-installed, it feels like it did before the flash. I just got off the phone with Russ, GM is trying to get him to keep his truck for 6 more months saying they have a fix for the overheating. He also said the info on the upgraded cooling on the 05 was on a GM site, he will forward it to me tonite and I will try to post it here. My LLY has never seen over 210 towing up that grade, but its not that high in altitude, maybe 4500 or so. Maybe because of the GMC grill flowing more air? Also the ambient temp was only 50-60.



Russmonster was a regular poster on the DP site, but his last post was on 4 December. He burned up 2 LLY motors, guess GM decided they were money ahead to buy him out. :ro) From the sound of his posts I would be very surprised if he touched another LLY. It would be great to have any inside scoop against GM that he could provide. ;)

Now back to those temps since it may help us with the overheating issue as well. I noted your profile says you are all stock. Did your LLY run hotter before the reflash on that same pass at WOT? Most of the guys posting overheating conditions would have puked their LLY's at that GCW and altitude at WOT. My engine temps would definitely have gone over 210*, normally up to 225-230* pulling a long grade.

Also, does your LLY seem to pull better than before during normal towing conditions, say when not at WOT climbing:confused: ? JJ :)

Oh well! :( Then back to the ol' drawing board. I keep coming back to Jannetty Racing's dyno numbers. Is there any reason to suspect they are erroneous? Superflow dyno sounds pretty good to me! ):h Seriously if this guy dyno'd before and after reflash on his stock 04.5 LLY and came up with 05 LLY hp/tq numbers why are we not accepting this? I mean come on, the guy has his own racing crew? :rolleyes:

Sure beats "those forbidden terms" that I won't use. Censored

On edit, Geo, you lost me dude! JJ ):h

Maybe my reflash was different than the one he did. I can tell ya this, there is no way that flash bumped my torque to the 05 spec of 605fp. I wouldn't have spent 2 months fighting with GM to get my old flash back if I had more power! Did he flash it himself? Can he post his cal numbers so we can see if there the same? Just talked to Russ, he said info on 05 cooling system was at www.gm.com (http://www.gm.com), click on news. But that was months ago and its not there anymore. He said A guy on this forum sent it to him...dieseltech? I think there is more than 1 with that name here.



Oh well! :( Then back to the ol' drawing board. I keep coming back to Jannetty Racing's dyno numbers. Is there any reason to suspect they are erroneous? Superflow dyno sounds pretty good to me! ):h Seriously if this guy dyno'd before and after reflash on his stock 04.5 LLY and came up with 05 LLY hp/tq numbers why are we not accepting this? I mean come on, the guy has his own racing crew? :rolleyes:

Sure beats "those forbidden terms" that I won't use. JJ ):h

I think the 2005 cooling system changes announced by GM applied to some of the gasoline engines, not the Duramax.

I think you are right bruce. The biggest changes were an electroviscous fan, supposedly. A quieter option to our beast. It was to go on the diesel, but it failed to perform acceptably and GM returned to the thermo-viscous.

Anyway, if you saw 210 max, then there is no conclusion on cooling, because you were within thermostat flow limits, of 190-205 (210 on the gauge). So the comparison is inconclusive until you can get over 210 and find the envelope where the cooling capacity is being exceeded. You just need more weight or higher OAT's.

For you rookies, OAT's=outside ambient temperatures ):h Yeah, I got one!

Robsauto2, your suspicion may be on track. Several guys that have posted indicated their dealerships did not have the latest reflash on their tech II's, heck some dealers weren't aware of the reflash. Though I would find it odd that with the evolution you went through someone wouldn't have caught this. :confused: Your case may go unsolved!

The LLY reflash poll is showing 80%+ positive results. So it does appear the reflash in these trucks isn't hurting hp/tq, at least not that they know of. :rolleyes:

I pm'd Mr. Jannetty last night about his dyno results. He indicated he may post the before/after graphs from his dyno runs for our review/consideration. He posted RWHP. So we'll see? :o Later. JJ :)

The LLY reflash poll is showing 80%+ positive results. So it does appear the reflash in these trucks isn't hurting hp/tq, at least not that they know of. :rolleyes:
JJ, you forgot to back out placebo effect. Ever see the adds for a new drug? "...side affects similar to that of sugar pill"

Sugar pill is what they give the control group, to compare actual improvements/side affects against the crowd who is taking a worthless supplement (unknowingly).

Sorry for the cynisism this morning.

I recently had the reflash done, and I am very happy with it. It got rid of the parking lot surge, and the truck feels no different power-wise. No complaints from me--I'm glad I did it!

Qualifying my statement...I do realize it has benefits. It's the GM games and CYA that get me going.