Here is the list I promised you guys!

This is my comparison of a 2004 Dodge 1500 SLT CC 2wd to a 2003 2500HD LS CC 2wd. Apples to Oranges, but the body and interior of the Dodge 1500 is the same as the 2500, so that makes this comparison relevent in most aspects. The Dodge is a rental with 18,000 miles. The Chevy is my personal truck (in body shop) with 33,000 miles. The following is a combination of FACT & OPINION:

Cons:

Overall:

Dodge 1500 2wd rides rougher then my Chevy 2500HD 2wd.
Dodge has more body roll in turns.
Unstable at highway speeds. Steering is tight, but truck likes to walk from lane to lane. This doesn’t seem to be tire/alignment related, but rather something inherent with the steering/suspension geometry.
On gravel roads, sounds like someone hitting a metal pie plate with a table spoon! High pitched and hollow sounding.
Does not have Courtesy lighting.

A side note: All 2wd Dodge 2500 and Ford F250 trucks have a lower, less aggressive stance than the 2wd Chevy. (I had to throw this one in)

Dash and Interior.

White face gauges. In sunlight the numbers are hard to see.
Bucket seats are stiff. They feel like ¾” plywood with a fabric covering.
The interior fabric seems to feel cheap and likely to wear out quickly.
Cruise control is glitchy.
The Dodge is like Ford with the dash being flat and facing rearward at a perpendicular angle as compared to Chevy’s “cockpit” style dash that wraps around the driver. This makes the radio and hvac controls hard to reach forcing one to lean forward. Also, the viewing angle makes the LED lights and controls of the radio harder to see especially in sunlight.
The Dodge has an info center, but it is in the overhead console which makes it hard to see and switch settings. The info center does not appear to have as many settings as the GM version.
The rear seat is smaller. No denying it. Also, the rear door opening is smaller. This prevented me from loading supplies in the back seat like I normally do in the Chevy.
Overall on the interior, it just doesn't feel or look up to par with the Chevy.

Pros:

Exterior fit and finish seems to be equal to the Chevy. Many of the options are relatively the same and it looks as though all the manufactures copied each other. One obvious example is the driver’s door window/lock/mirror controls. Almost exactly the same with small differences in the buttons and feel.

In Conclusion:

Would I personally buy a Dodge? No. I don’t believe that the Cummins option can sway me into losing the every day creature comforts. Now, if someone gave me a Dodge on the condition that I had to drive it and could not sell it, would I? Yes. And I COULD LEARN to be happy with it.

Not a very good comparison, why not compare an EXTENDED cab GM to the Dodge quad cab?, seeing as they are almost the same in wheelbase and overall length, then you will see a small rear seat.

Not a very good comparison, why not compare an EXTENDED cab GM to the Dodge quad cab?, seeing as they are almost the same in wheelbase and overall length, then you will see a small rear seat. For me, the real 4 door was a major factor. I hate ford so no question there but I can't put two teenagers in an extended cab. I think Dodge missed the boat with the quad cab.

The Dodge quad cab is just an extended cab, same as Ford or GM extended cabs, Dodge did not "miss the boat" they just do not make an crew cab full size truck. The Dodge happens to have rear doors that open the correct way and do not require you to open the front door to use them, the overall length and wheelbase of the Dodge quad cab is comparable to GM and Ford's extended cabs.

Not a very good comparison, why not compare an EXTENDED cab GM to the Dodge quad cab?, seeing as they are almost the same in wheelbase and overall length, then you will see a small rear seat.

My previous truck was a 2001 Chevy 2500HD EX-CAB LWB. The rear seats are about the same size. However, when the ex cab opened, there was plenty of room for loading cargo. Something that I miss with the CC, but I can still manage. As I said, the width of the dodge cc open is narrow.

Here is the list I promised you guys!

This is my comparison of a 2004 Dodge 1500 SLT CC 2wd to a 2003 2500HD LS CC 2wd. Apples to Oranges, but the body and interior of the Dodge 1500 is the same as the 2500, so that makes this comparison relevent in most aspects. The Dodge is a rental with 18,000 miles. The Chevy is my personal truck (in body shop) with 33,000 miles. The following is a combination of FACT & OPINION:

Cons:

Overall:

Dodge 1500 2wd rides rougher then my Chevy 2500HD 2wd.
Dodge has more body roll in turns.
Unstable at highway speeds. Steering is tight, but truck likes to walk from lane to lane. This doesn’t seem to be tire/alignment related, but rather something inherent with the steering/suspension geometry.
On gravel roads, sounds like someone hitting a metal pie plate with a table spoon! High pitched and hollow sounding.
Does not have Courtesy lighting.

A side note: All 2wd Dodge 2500 and Ford F250 trucks have a lower, less aggressive stance than the 2wd Chevy. (I had to throw this one in)

Dash and Interior.

White face gauges. In sunlight the numbers are hard to see.
Bucket seats are stiff. They feel like ¾” plywood with a fabric covering.
The interior fabric seems to feel cheap and likely to wear out quickly.
Cruise control is glitchy.
The Dodge is like Ford with the dash being flat and facing rearward at a perpendicular angle as compared to Chevy’s “cockpit” style dash that wraps around the driver. This makes the radio and hvac controls hard to reach forcing one to lean forward. Also, the viewing angle makes the LED lights and controls of the radio harder to see especially in sunlight.
The Dodge has an info center, but it is in the overhead console which makes it hard to see and switch settings. The info center does not appear to have as many settings as the GM version.
The rear seat is smaller. No denying it. Also, the rear door opening is smaller. This prevented me from loading supplies in the back seat like I normally do in the Chevy.
Overall on the interior, it just doesn't feel or look up to par with the Chevy.

Pros:

Fit and finish seems to be equal to the Chevy. Many of the options are relatively the same and it looks as though all the manufactures copied each other. One obvious example is the driver’s door window/lock/mirror controls. Almost exactly the same with small differences in the buttons and feel.

In Conclusion:

Would I personally buy a Dodge? No. I don’t believe that the Cummins option can sway me into losing the every day creature comforts. Now, if someone gave me a Dodge on the condition that I had to drive it and could not sell it, would I? Yes. And I COULD LEARN to be happy with it.
How can you say fit and finish are the same? Did you read your own review?

Under pro's you say:
"Fit and finish seems to be equal to the Chevy. Many of the options are relatively the same and it looks as though all the manufactures copied each other."

But right above that you mention:

"The Dodge is like Ford with the dash being flat and facing rearward at a perpendicular angle as compared to Chevy’s “cockpit” style dash that wraps around the driver."

"Bucket seats are stiff. They feel like ¾” plywood with a fabric covering.
The interior fabric seems to feel cheap and likely to wear out quickly. "

"This makes the radio and hvac controls hard to reach forcing one to lean forward. Also, the viewing angle makes the LED lights and controls of the radio harder to see especially in sunlight.
The Dodge has an info center, but it is in the overhead console which makes it hard to see and switch settings. "

On EDIT:

Exterior fit and finish are about the same.


How can you say fit and finish are the same? Did you read your own review?

Under pro's you say:
"Fit and finish seems to be equal to the Chevy. Many of the options are relatively the same and it looks as though all the manufactures copied each other."

But right above that you mention:

"The Dodge is like Ford with the dash being flat and facing rearward at a perpendicular angle as compared to Chevy’s “cockpit” style dash that wraps around the driver."

"Bucket seats are stiff. They feel like ¾” plywood with a fabric covering.
The interior fabric seems to feel cheap and likely to wear out quickly. "

"This makes the radio and hvac controls hard to reach forcing one to lean forward. Also, the viewing angle makes the LED lights and controls of the radio harder to see especially in sunlight.
The Dodge has an info center, but it is in the overhead console which makes it hard to see and switch settings. "

I guess I missed that the first time I read through....sorry

`good comparision, similar to my thoughts on the two, i will say i like the slightly larger wheel wells on the dodge, for larger tires

Just as I posted in my comparo long time ago. No showstoppers. The only creature comfort in this list that GM beats Dodge in is the seats and fabric hands down and the rear seating. I have found no issues with the gauges or the radio...I have controls at my fingertips behind my steering wheel for full control of the radio. Never noticed any problems reading the gauges and they look much better that the GM gauges.

Computer in the overhead can be a pain but it's not something you should be looking at all the time anyway. I don't understand how people can install thier gauges in that location an expect to read them while driving either.

Dodge bumpers don't come pre-rusted from the factory and there is no sign of any rust starting after a year.

The back seat is not an extended cab with four doors. It's bigger than that. GM has Dodge beat in that respect too if that's one of your important requirements. For me it's good enough and not a showstopper or I would not have bought the truck in the first place. Plenty of room back there just not as comfy and spacious as the GM.

HVAC controls on the Dodge are excellent and blow away the GM. I have no problem reaching mine... you must have short arms. What I especially like about the Dodge HVAC controls is they do everything the GM controls do but are simple and the system actually works. The GMC I had the HVAC sucked as did the stereo BIG TIME. DOesn't do much good to sit in a COCKpit if the buttons don't do anything ):h

My heater, defrost, A/C and the choices available are everything I would expect and work great. These things are VERY important to me, not cockpit styling.

Wasn't all that long ago I would not buy a Dodge because GM had more for the money. GM still makes a nice truck but I wanted to play with a different beast. I'm having a blast.

Try opening the front DS and PS doors all the way open beyond the stops (simulating wind catching a door) on the DODGE and watch the inner fender/body flex where the door hinges are attached.

Try opening the front DS and PS doors all the way open beyond the stops (simulating wind catching a door) on the DODGE and watch the inner fender/body flex where the door hinges are attached.

I noticed that too Michael. But does that mean anything? Try walking down the bedrails of your truck..... It will leave permanant footprints.

My wifes new Buick Rainier.... the door stop lever is plastic. Does that make the truck total junk?

I bought this Dodge not letting specific small issues deter my decision. I wanted a Cummins and a straight axle 4x4 with as mentioned above... bigger wheelwells and a more forgiving design.

how do you like your new oldsmobile bravada hoot?

Buick Rainier :confused:

A truck? No wonder you luv your Dodge :D

how do you like your new oldsmobile bravada hoot?

It's a
Chevy TrailBlazer
GMC Envoy
Oldsmobile Bravada
Isuzu Ascender
and a Rainier.... all in one.

Did I miss one?

So far my Wife loves it.

My grandparents have a 04 4wd Trailblazer LS. It's not a bad little suv for $290 month on a $0 down 3yr/36000 mile lease.

The ranier is the discontinued bravada with interior and styling changes to make it look buick. Does it have the 4.2 I6 or 5.3 V8?

4.2

a more forgiving design.

meaning?? Please forgive our designers :eek:

I'm suprised you didn't get her a Durango with a HEMI

I'm suprised you didn't get her a Durango with a HEMI

We weren't shopping pure brand. We first looked at the Saturn VUE than the Pontiac Vibe. I was considering Nissan, or a used Toyota Landcruiser.

GM sucked us in with the discounts and the GM card $3000. The Rainier is really nice. I like it but I rarely drive it.

Durango... she didn't want something that big or a V8 gas guzzler. I did look at them in the show room earlier in the year. The interiors of the decked out ones are on par with GM. Very well done.

Just as I posted in my comparo long time ago. No showstoppers. The only creature comfort in this list that GM beats Dodge in is the seats and fabric hands down and the rear seating. I have found no issues with the gauges or the radio...I have controls at my fingertips behind my steering wheel for full control of the radio. Never noticed any problems reading the gauges and they look much better that the GM gauges.

Computer in the overhead can be a pain but it's not something you should be looking at all the time anyway. I don't understand how people can install thier gauges in that location an expect to read them while driving either.

Dodge bumpers don't come pre-rusted from the factory and there is no sign of any rust starting after a year.

The back seat is not an extended cab with four doors. It's bigger than that. GM has Dodge beat in that respect too if that's one of your important requirements. For me it's good enough and not a showstopper or I would not have bought the truck in the first place. Plenty of room back there just not as comfy and spacious as the GM.

HVAC controls on the Dodge are excellent and blow away the GM. I have no problem reaching mine... you must have short arms. What I especially like about the Dodge HVAC controls is they do everything the GM controls do but are simple and the system actually works. The GMC I had the HVAC sucked as did the stereo BIG TIME. DOesn't do much good to sit in a COCKpit if the buttons don't do anything ):h

My heater, defrost, A/C and the choices available are everything I would expect and work great. These things are VERY important to me, not cockpit styling.

Wasn't all that long ago I would not buy a Dodge because GM had more for the money. GM still makes a nice truck but I wanted to play with a different beast. I'm having a blast.
Compare the wheelbases and overall length of the Dodge to the GM and Ford, Dodge is an extended cab with 4 doors. Here you go, a comparison of short bed extended cabs. It may seem bigger because of the thinner front seat backs and the way it is layed out.

wheelbase overall length
Dodge 2500HD 140.5 227.7
GM 2500HD 143.5 227.7
Ford SD 141.8 231.2

Compare the wheelbases and overall length of the Dodge to the GM and Ford, Dodge is an extended cab with 4 doors. Here you go, a comparison of short bed extended cabs. It may seem bigger because of the thinner front seat backs and the way it is layed out.

wheelbase overall length
Dodge 2500HD 140.5 227.7
GM 2500HD 143.5 227.7
Ford SD 141.8 231.2


I have heard the Ford crew also has a small back seat. GM having a 3.5" longer wheelbase than the Dodge isn't all that much and the overall lengths are the same.

My view of the extended cab designation is not my truck. The back of my truck to me is a crew cab, just smaller than the competition.

Dodge calls it the Quad cab. Lets fight over names. It's plenty big enough for three adults, has regular doors and three shoulder harness seatbelts. No it's not as roomy as a GM Crew Cab but no way is it a classic extended cab design.

It is what it is. To me it wasn't a showstopper no matter what you call it. There are many truck owners on this board with reg and extended cab trucks. I don't view them to be lessor trucks.

I guess I missed that the first time I read through....sorry
No problem, I didn't clarify.:o

HVAC controls on the Dodge are excellent and blow away the GM. I have no problem reaching mine... you must have short arms. What I especially like about the Dodge HVAC controls is they do everything the GM controls do but are simple and the system actually works. The GMC I had the HVAC sucked as did the stereo BIG TIME. DOesn't do much good to sit in a COCKpit if the buttons don't do anything ):h

My heater, defrost, A/C and the choices available are everything I would expect and work great. These things are VERY important to me, not cockpit styling.
I am 6'-0" tall. I do have little tolerance for having to reach for something that should have been designed better, i.e. the Dodge radio and hvac controls. As far as the hvac controls working, they seem to be as buggy as the cruise. Tough to get to set at the "right" setting. Also, the radio TOTALLY SUCKS! compared to the Bose radio in the 03 Chevy. It may just be me, but the Dodge radio display totally bleaches out in the sun combined with the viewing angle. I have to lean about a foot to the right to clearly read the display.

I am glad you are having a blast Hoot. For me these "little" issues mean the world when trying to retain my sanity during the day to day comute.;)

I am 6'-0" tall. I do have little tolerance for having to reach for something that should have been designed better, i.e. the Dodge radio and hvac controls. As far as the hvac controls working, they seem to be as buggy as the cruise. Tough to get to set at the "right" setting. Also, the radio TOTALLY SUCKS! compared to the Bose radio in the 03 Chevy. It may just be me, but the Dodge radio display totally bleaches out in the sun combined with the viewing angle. I have to lean about a foot to the right to clearly read the display.

I am glad you are having a blast Hoot. For me these "little" issues mean the world when trying to retain my sanity during the day to day comute.;)

GM didn't have the Bose option when I got my GMC. I blew the stock speakers out with the stock system. Yes the sun sometimes overpowers the display but that often happens on most vehicles. At least GM spent time in the interior fixing things up from the first years. Now if only they could get the reliability of the Dmax up and come up with a truck that competes with the Superduty they might have something. Same with Dodge. No truck availablle that truly competes with the Superduty line.

HVAC .... maybe GM has improved them. I had my 01 GMC for three years. Seemed to be the controls were about the same place as the Dodge only difference is the ones in the Dodge actually work. My GMC had auto climate control. Maybe that was the problem. It would often blow nothing but cold air unless the heat control was on max. This usually happened when it was above freezing but cold enough for heat/defrost. I remember many a trip where I needed window defog on a cool morning. No heat... just air conditioned cold air making it worse.

Yes GM has a nicer interior but I scratch my head at the nit picking comments. My GMC had more things about it I didn't like... user wise than my Dodge.

You also mentioned cruise control being buggy in the Dodge. This is something I haven't noticed at all but the GMC cruise control was a POS. It would speed up, than slow down, sometimes anoyingly going up hills. No quirks at all with my Dodge.

I must have had a bad GM and you must have gotten a bad Dodge. Yea that's it.

"For me these "little" issues mean the world when trying to retain my sanity during the day to day comute."

I can relate. I don't use my truck for work either.

Would someone enlighten me as to the standout plus of a straight axle. From my past experience an independant suspension provides much better ground contact (Tire weight and traction on the ground) on uneven terrain than a straight axle and with less frame flexing. Toughness is good to an extent but I have never broken a upper or lower control arm on a GM product which for me would make a straight axle overkill. IMO if someone plans on doing any pasture type driving with a Dodge they best invest in the 4wd as these truck will literally get stuck on wet grass. Too heavy on the front or something. For crossing ditches on angles or similar situations the independant suspension is hands down superior as the tires will better follow the terrain while keeping the tread flat on the ground.

For crossing ditches on angles or similar situations the independant suspension is hands down superior as the tires will better follow the terrain while keeping the tread flat on the ground.

You would think but contact patch is a small part of the equation in real life off road. Off road the terrain changes under the tire continuously. No suspension can keep up with what happens under the tire in those situations. Solid axles are good for their ability to handle heavier loads. They are good for extreme off road because the entire axle lifts as the truck goes over obstacles. Trucks with solid axles typically handle larger tires better and usually have larger wheel well openings. They are cheaper and easier to lift in most cases.

IFS is excellent overall when designed well. The negatives in the GM HD truck design are the multiple attach points of the control arms that allow the front end to flex forward and back a bit too readily when under stress. This creates major stresses on all of the connected componants.

Either system has it's good and bad points but you will notice Ford stays clear of IFS in it's heavier Superduty. It outsells all of the competition in the commercial end of things and I beleive the solid front axle along with the higher frame has a lot to do with it.

You would think but contact patch is a small part of the equation in real life off road. Off road the terrain changes under the tire continuously. No suspension can keep up with what happens under the tire in those situations. Solid axles are good for their ability to handle heavier loads. They are good for extreme off road because the entire axle lifts as the truck goes over obstacles. Trucks with solid axles typically handle larger tires better and usually have larger wheel well openings. They are cheaper and easier to lift in most cases.

IFS is excellent overall when designed well. The negatives in the GM HD truck design are the multiple attach points of the control arms that allow the front end to flex forward and back a bit too readily when under stress. This creates major stresses on all of the connected componants.

Either system has it's good and bad points but you will notice Ford stays clear of IFS in it's heavier Superduty. It outsells all of the competition in the commercial end of things and I beleive the solid front axle along with the higher frame has a lot to do with it.



):h

):h


I would respond MAC but I would only dig a deeper ditch.

Ok i would like to know exactly which is the tuffest truck, alot of my friends have fords, alot have dodges, just which one is the best, also, the Duramax should be a stronger motor with more HP/TQ ratings than the powerstroke, i would personal pick a cummins over a ford, anyday, but, I would have to go with a DM first simply b/c ive heard nothing but good things out of them...