I currently tow a 40' 5th wheel that has a rating of 18,500 lbs GVWR. It has 3 axles and disc brakes. While I know it's behind me I've never felt my 2006 LBZ 3500 wasn't up to the task. I often read RV related post on RV net and am amazed at the number of people who feel that you can not tow a large 5th wheel safely unless you have a 4500 or 5500. So far I have always felt that stopping with the 5ers disk brakes was no real problem. What is your take on this. I have considered a PACbrake system since they now have one for the LBZ motor. As far a braking goes I've been told that the braking standard for any towed vehicle is that it be able to safely stop under it's own brake system.

Thanks.

I pull heavy all the time. I have a gooseneck with 3 axles and brakes on all wheels. My truck will stop it without the trailer brakes but not near as quick. Always leave yourself plenty of room when stopping so if the brakes on the trailer fade, your truck can get you stopped. They put brakes on trailers to help the tow vehicle get the load stopped. Otherwise we'd all be using big rigs. That's just my 2 cents.

You're within the ratings of your vehicle. Apparently someone at GM feels that the truck can handle it.

I pull a 18500lb 5th with mine and it 's all within limits.
The problem is when the brakes on the trailer fail. That's
when larger brakes,that come with bigger trucks, come into play.

I pull what you are describing and have had the brakes fail on the trailer on two out of the three axles. The truck still held a comfortable speed coming down some very steep grades in Colorado. The only indicator that my trailer brakes were having issue was my truck brakes started to get warm and then my prodigy controller started giving me fault codes. Long story short...the truck could stop the trailer by itself on a steep mountain grade. You should be fine, but it's all what you feel comfortable with.

I tow a Cardinal 34QS with 4 slides, 38ft GV# about 16500. On our last trip got to our destination and realised that the 7pin cord had popped out while in transport so that meant that I had been stopping WITHOUT MY 5er BRAKES! (Oops!) To be honest I didn't even realise any difference in stopping efficiency. My TV is also a 3500 one ton Duramax Dually. You'll be OK.

I just upgraded from a 2500 pulling a 39'er. Highest weigh in on CAT scale was 16750# + truck in the Smokey mtns with the old truck and no problems. I'm sure the dually will do great! (yes, I know I was overloaded, the reason for the 3500) :)

I pull a 18500lb 5th with mine and it 's all within limits.
The problem is when the brakes on the trailer fail. That's
when larger brakes,that come with bigger trucks, come into play.

:DThat basically sums it up in a nut shell. I tow a XLR 39x12 18,500 I prefer towing with the 1 ton over the M2 I had in my garage. Braking in an emergency situation (where trailer brakes are lost) are better on the M2, but if everything is working normally there is no need for anything larger then a 1 Ton. As for Rosey with the brake wire popping out, been there done that, simply take a small bungie cord or velcro strap and rap it around the brake cord and receiver plug cap and you will never have that problem again.

Your GVWR is 11,400; your GCWR is 23,500. Do the numbers...sure it tows fine, it's a diesel, but you are over weight. If you don't think it's a problem, ask an attorney about liability issues if you are in an at fault accident and over loaded, you won't like what he/she says.

I guess I'm a little confused about all these weight ratings .In the 3500hd specs it has a couple of different details for weight.
Maximun Payload for a DRW = GVWR 11,400
Now a couple of lines over it shows Trailering and it shows a 5er ,4wd @ 11,600 / 15,900 .So what does all this mean??It's somewhat confusing to me.I just bought a 5er that has a GVWR of 14,300 -So am I within the specs of a 3500 DRW 4x4 ? From what I see its ok any input please.

There are maximum weights on everything. Your truck has a max weight, but each axle has a max weight also. You can be within spec on both axles but over on truck max. Likewise, you could be within spec on the truck max but over on your rear axle depending on trailer king pin weight.
The trailer has multiple max weights also. Axles have their own and the trailer has a gross max.
Then your truck has a towing max. And different truck configurations have different gross combined (truck and trailer combined) max weights depending on if it's a crew cab, long bed 4X4 or any of the other combos. The truck and trailer tires have their own max weight rating also. In order to be completely within spec, you have to be under on each and every single max weight and all the combined max weights as well. It takes some work and a trip to the scales to determine if you are or aren't.
BTW, don't go off what the sticker in the trailer says, go get it scaled.
Oh, and your rims and the trailer rims have their own max weights as well.:D

Your GVWR is 11,400; your GCWR is 23,500. Do the numbers...sure it tows fine, it's a diesel, but you are over weight. If you don't think it's a problem, ask an attorney about liability issues if you are in an at fault accident and over loaded, you won't like what he/she says.


Old Soldier and I have both agreed on this in another thread in the "Truck Uses" forum. You are overweight...period. Yes your truck will pull it and stop it, but like Old Soldier just stated...ask an attorney and your insurance company about the liability involved and you may rethink your truck choice. Just be careful!

As stated above your over weight. If your over 23,500 your over weight. The weights for a 3500 1 ton dually is 11,400 and 23,500 thats the numbers and there is now way around it unless you go to a MDT or HDT. Its just a matter of time before the States are going to start to weight all RVer's, so get ready its comming. GBY.............

OldSoldier, you may wish to check out this link on legalities: http://www.woodalls.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20577181.cfm

It was interesting to see this post. There always seemed to be threads on this subject every other week. Then, it was made a sticky on 11/11/07 with the last post on 12/05/07. Enjoy.

That was interesting .

OldSoldier, you may wish to check out this link on legalities: http://www.woodalls.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20577181.cfm

It was interesting to see this post. There always seemed to be threads on this subject every other week. Then, it was made a sticky on 11/11/07 with the last post on 12/05/07. Enjoy.

I Have a have a 20 yard Dual Tandem Big Tex Dump Trailer rated at 25,900. I have rolled into the dump with a total load of over 28,000 lbs and let me tell you what, it feels light compared to a full load of dirt in that same trailer. Ive never weighed it with dirt in it but I can tell you that even with the trailer brakes cranked it is still hard to stop more than once or twice. No problems gettin it goin though!

I think the key to towing loads well above ratings (though not recommended) is to be sure that the trailer can stop it's own weight safely and repeatedly. You cant expect the truck to do it all, even with exhaust brakes and custom brake upgrades (rotors and calipers) you can only get so much grip from your tires in an emergency and the last thing you want if for the truck to stop and the trailer doesn't want to.

I tow heavy every day for work. Pull 18-27k lbs daily in trailer weight. Guys get their 1 ton dually's registered legally with a GCWR of 35-36k and go through scales no problem. GM's ratings mean nothing as far as scales go. It's all based on tire ratings, and tires have to at least meet the axle ratings. This is what DOT bases it on and why guys get 35k and 36k stickers on their 3500's.

I tow heavy every day for work. Pull 18-27k lbs daily in trailer weight. Guys get their 1 ton dually's registered legally with a GCWR of 35-36k and go through scales no problem. GM's ratings mean nothing as far as scales go. It's all based on tire ratings, and tires have to at least meet the axle ratings. This is what DOT bases it on and why guys get 35k and 36k stickers on their 3500's.

Sorry, but that's not true. If you are in an accident, I guarantee you it's GM ratings as listed on the data plate that will count. The states can do what ever they want...and all they want is more revenue from heavier trucks, so they gross them out heavy. The states could care less about what the manufacturer's say...follow the money.

Sorry, but that's not true. If you are in an accident, I guarantee you it's GM ratings as listed on the data plate that will count. The states can do what ever they want...and all they want is more revenue from heavier trucks, so they gross them out heavy. The states could care less about what the manufacturer's say...follow the money.

Sorry but it is true other wise DOT wouldn't allow you to do it. They have very strict laws on trucking and if it was that big of a deal they wouldn't allow you to do it. Like I said the max is 35-36 for a dually because of tire and axle max. That's what it's based on. In CA pickups don't have to scale but if you go interstate it's much easier to have the reg. for 35 for when you roll through scales. Say what you want, but the DOT laws are what counts. As far as an accident goes, it's gonna be off what your registration says. If you're legal, you're legal.

What the state says and what your insurance company say's may come back to haunt you in a "monetary" form. I would imagine that engineers have come up with 11,400# GVWR & 23,500GCWR for most of the right reasons. I'll figure both are understated to some extent for protection from being sued by anyone towing within specs and having an accident. If my truck suspension/axles/tires/shocks say my truck shouldn't weigh more then 11,400# loaded, I'm figuring there is a reason for it. Overweight a little, even to me, no big deal, but to load up to where your truck would scale 1,000# or more over recommended GVWR, to me, is an arrogance that could end up harming a loved one in your family... I'm not going to intentionally let it happen. I'll try to stay within limits and for those towing 17,000# plus 5th wheels with their 3500HD's, take care out there, it's all fun and games until someone get's hurt.

When I got my truck and trailer inspected last year I asked the inspector what the GCWR max was. He said since the trailer has its own brakes and such he didn't think that it was illegal to tow more than 15-16gs. Every hot shot pulling three cars is illegal than. I have to get mine inspected next month and Ill ask him again and see what he says this year. 15000 lbs behind a diesel dually ford or chevy doesn't really even phase the truck unless you throw some wind in.

I personally, will not rely on what "others" say, they're not responsible for my family, insurance premiums, etc...I'll go by, or try to stay as close as I can, to what the truck manufacturer say's about GVWR & GCWR, again, I figure their engineers should know a little more about it then an employee with the DOT who probably really doesn't care what you tow with your truck or who your going to have in your truck "should" their be an accident and you are overweight. Can't think of any instances where that has happened, but "I'" don't want to be the first one to find out what might happen. I agree, these trucks can handle a lot of weight, but I've towed in the twisty, curvey, steep grade mountains of WV,TN,VA, NC & SC, for over 30 years plus and most of those who say "hardly knew it was back there", are, well, tending to streach the truth a bit. I've towed overweight and rectified it with the appropiate tow vehicle and had a much more enjoyable, peace of mind trip and didn't have to pull the seat out of my butt when I finally got to my destination. Bottom line, common sense should prevail.

The question here is legality. If the DOT says it's legal, then it's legal. I'll listen to the law before anyone on the net. The DOT stands to make A LOT more revenue in writing illegal tickets than they do in registration. Go to towrig.com. They have a lot of really good info there on the law. As far as insurance goes, I have to carry commercial insurance because that's what the law states. Min is 750,000 in liability and most places want 1 mill. which is what I carry. The DOT rules are very strict in this business and believe me they won't let you slide with ANYTHING.

I'm also a member of towrig.com. Again, you do what you want to do, I'll do what I know is safe for me and my family and property, including my truck that is under warranty and if abused, and IS proven to have been abused by towing overweight..oh well, but that will probably never happen. There are also different laws for each state when it comes to purchasing liscense for your truck. In NC you purchase a license based on the information on your doorjamb, if you want to be legal. It's based on your GCWR and your rear axle weight. Now I didn't say I couldn't tow heavier, just telling you the law in NC. I will continue to travel with "peace of mind" knowing that I'm not pusing the limits or abusing my tranny or suspension, but that's just me.

ON EDIT: IF the state of California allows a truck like mine to weigh thousands of pounds over GVWR, RAWR and /or GCWR, then, they're not really looking out for me or my interest, sounds like they have contracts with a lot of Towing outfits

I have but one thing to say here....I went down Floyd Hill with a Triple Axel Gooseneck with 14,700 on the triples according to the scales. It was a little unnerving being pushed down that Hill (6-7% Grades with many twists and curves)...going up is always a breeze...coming back down is not so much.

The link to the thread earlier had some very important tidbits, and they are directly related to safety and reason. The capacity of the AXLES and TIRES is what affects us in our smaller trucks. The rest of the 20,000 / tire and so on is to keep states from setting limits unreasonably low for the bigger trucks with much higher axle and tire capacity. The stopping power of any braking highway axle (DOT certified) is at least the same as its load rating.

Legally, axle and tire rating also happen to be the only things that holds water in court. If you overload the axles or tires on your vehicle, any vehicle, you are negligent. Registration is a tax thing. 'nother animal all together, but you have to jump through that hoop too.

What this means is that the DOT recognizes that your ability to carry and stop a load safely is a function of the tires and axles.

As far as brakes failing. Partner, you are responsible for keeping your trailer brakes and controls in good working order regardless of what size truck you have.

In California I technically don't need the 35k sticker because I don't have to scale. All scales say "No Pickups". However I do have a 35k sticker so I can go interstate (other states) and go through scales LEGALLY. DOT figures all types of trucks max weight the same. Whether its a big rig or 1500 pickup and it's federal, not state. That's the purpose of the sticker, to show your max legal weight while cruising past the scale operator. If you are over weight, you'll get popped and have to unload that weight before proceeding and face fines etc.

GM keeps their ratings down for several reasons. If the rating is too high then drivers will require a class A licence and not everyone has one, needs one, or wants one. Also not everyone wants a DOT # and in CA you need a CA # for commercial vehicles and to go interstate you'll need an ICC/MC # and have inspections done by DOT. Then you run into warranty issues etc.

If you want to tow by the manufacturers set guidelines, then that's fine. But don't tell others they can't go past that when federal DOT guidelines state differently. In order to do so you have to meet a bunch of guidelines and that means proper Insurance, license, authorities, etc to be able to. Bottom line, is my truck has to meet the same DOT guidelines as a big rig operation. Inspections by DOT, registrations, log books/pre trip inspections, drug testing etc etc. It's a commercial vehicle for hire and therefore goes by separate rules. The avg guy pulling an RV doesn't have half the rules a commercial vehicle has.

Keep it civil or it will be clipped.

And saying things like 'in my opinion', does not soften the blow of calling someone an 'idiot'.:rolleyes:

OOPS, one of the "softest" threads I've seen in all my many years on all kinds of forums and this one is threatened to be closed because someone assumes someone is calling someone an idiot, but didn't ..I'm kind of slow but hope no one called me an idiot and I KNOW I didn't call anyone an idiot and no one told anyone what they HAD to do when towing. I only have a 4 yr. degree in college that took me about 25 years to get while working different jobs in different states and spending some time in a lot of different countries working for Uncle Sam and just didn't see any problems here, but must be too dumb to see it. I will bow out gracefully, apologize if I hurt anyones feelings and will say goodbye to the diesel place.

Thanks folks, but this really didn't go where I wanted it to go. I've read the weight police back and forths on RV.net. I'm not looking for the theory I'm looking for the practical experience of those who actually tow heavy all the time. I know that there are weight limits and I am not looking for excuses to tow excessive loads, I just want to know it you tow loads in the 20K to 25K range have you had problems with either your vehicle or with specific road situations. Again, thanks but I wasn't looking for a theoretical discussion of the law.

Wayne z.

OOPS, one of the "softest" threads I've seen in all my many years on all kinds of forums and this one is threatened to be closed because someone assumes someone is calling someone an idiot, but didn't ..I'm kind of slow but hope no one called me an idiot and I KNOW I didn't call anyone an idiot and no one told anyone what they HAD to do when towing. I only have a 4 yr. degree in college that took me about 25 years to get while working different jobs in different states and spending some time in a lot of different countries working for Uncle Sam and just didn't see any problems here, but must be too dumb to see it. I will bow out gracefully, apologize if I hurt anyones feelings and will say goodbye to the diesel place.


And are you able to see what got deleted already?

Normally a public warning is placed in a thread only after a few posts had to get axed. Its an attempt to keep things on the right track.

Also I'll ask that if you or anyone else wish to discuss it farther that you PM DD directly, or make a thread in Forum Ops. Thanks!!

With that clarification.......... :)

If you don't have a parking brake setup for your electric brakes, figure out a way to keep the electric brakes on if you leave the cab to chock the trailer wheels. Loading and Unloading the equipment off the trailer on a grade is just a fact of life around here in Pittsbugh. The rear axle by itself is frequently not enough to hold the trailer back. Before I rigged the brake to stay on, I would put the truck in 4x4 so all four wheels would hold. On steeper hills, I went with 4Lo to take the strain off the parking pawl in the tranny.

Thanks folks, but this really didn't go where I wanted it to go. I've read the weight police back and forths on RV.net. I'm not looking for the theory I'm looking for the practical experience of those who actually tow heavy all the time. I know that there are weight limits and I am not looking for excuses to tow excessive loads, I just want to know it you tow loads in the 20K to 25K range have you had problems with either your vehicle or with specific road situations. Again, thanks but I wasn't looking for a theoretical discussion of the law.

Wayne z.

Agree, you don't want theory...but you don't want practical experience either. Just because somebody had managed to get away with towing grossly over weight does not make it right or smart or good 'practical experience.' There is nothing theoretical about weights, you are either within the weight limit or over the weight limit...kind of like being pregnant, you either are or you aren't.

I currently tow a 40' 5th wheel that has a rating of 18,500 lbs GVWR. It has 3 axles and disc brakes. While I know it's behind me I've never felt my 2006 LBZ 3500 wasn't up to the task. I often read RV related post on RV net and am amazed at the number of people who feel that you can not tow a large 5th wheel safely unless you have a 4500 or 5500. So far I have always felt that stopping with the 5ers disk brakes was no real problem. What is your take on this. I have considered a PACbrake system since they now have one for the LBZ motor. As far a braking goes I've been told that the braking standard for any towed vehicle is that it be able to safely stop under it's own brake system.

Thanks.
Don't know what your true weight is on the trailer or your truck but if the trailer weighs the max you are over 3000 lbs or better overweight for the TV at least. Best way to determine what your combined weight is etc is head to a CAT scale, the numbers might shock you.....on the insurance part, I called my agent once when I was towing with a 2500, was told the insurance company never asked about the weight of the trailer etc but who knows what they will do if you get into an accident.
I too had to upgrade my op license to tow the trailer....a lot of people and some DMV workers have misconceptions about license requirements when dealing with recreational vehicles....where the confusion comes in is a lot of states waive the weight requirements concerning registration but not operating licenses.

Hmmm interesting thread, I tow big weight with Kodiak all the time. Combined 25-40 K daily

kodiak + 2 crew cabs on a 47 ft. flatbed. kodiak 12k trailer 8k and 2 trucks 10k each.

The kodiak brakes are what is making me feel safe and very noticable difference to the stopping power of the 2500. You can tow whatever you wish , but can you stop it safely or in a drastic swerving manuver is your truck heavy enough compared to what your towing. Ive found the kodiak to be exceptional in all area's.

A few hairy episodes stopping and swerving when stopping wasnt going to happen and was amazed at the difference swerving with the heavier truck pulling the trailer. I see you guys all the time on the road with 25-3500 trucks pulling huge fifth wheels and all I think is hope nobody ever locks them up in front of you. Just looking at the load your hauling and seeing how monsterous some of these trailers are compared to your truck I think you guys are screwed in an emergency situation , especially if you need to swerve towards another direction.

Ive almost not stopped many times and all I could think is , what if I was in a 2500 or 3500 , I wouldn't have been able to stop for that ... yikes

Good Luck to all , and hope you never have any problems.

If all I had was a 2500-3500 , I would still tow what I am just leave even more distance between cars in front and drive even slower than I do now.

It would be the steep downhills that would scare me the most. And sometimes does even in the kodiak.

Gasuout

So I have a question. I weighed myself one time with my 04 CC 4X4 dually ford. I had app. 4950 on the front, 9900 on the rear, and 15000 on the trailer triples( max 7000 each) My plates on pickup are 15000 and the trailer is 18000. Am I breaking any laws?

I tow heavy with a 3500 and a 5500. Ive gone over the scales at 28880 of trailer weight with my 3500 and a 28ft dual tandem equipment trailer on it. It pulled it just fine and stopped just fine. But the kicker her is what would have happened if the brakes on the trailer had failed? That is why I bought the 5500. The feeling is much better it will stop that trailer almost better than the dually would without the trailer brakes turned on at all. Just try this if you get a safe area to do it in and I stress the SAFE AREA part. Turn the power off going to your breaks on the trailer your towing all weighted down and see how well it actually stops. If you have the opportunity try riding in or driving a medium or heavy duty truck with th same amount of weight and see how well it stops. Then you can see how unsafe it really is too tow that much weight with a 3500.

I tow heavy with a 3500 and a 5500. Ive gone over the scales at 28880 of trailer weight with my 3500 and a 28ft dual tandem equipment trailer on it. It pulled it just fine and stopped just fine. But the kicker her is what would have happened if the brakes on the trailer had failed? That is why I bought the 5500. The feeling is much better it will stop that trailer almost better than the dually would without the trailer brakes turned on at all. Just try this if you get a safe area to do it in and I stress the SAFE AREA part. Turn the power off going to your breaks on the trailer your towing all weighted down and see how well it actually stops. If you have the opportunity try riding in or driving a medium or heavy duty truck with th same amount of weight and see how well it stops. Then you can see how unsafe it really is too tow that much weight with a 3500.

And thats why I went from a 1 ton to the Kodiak. Night and day difference in stopping ability.

gm says you can so you know you can at least tow that much weight...in my case bin known to fudge it a little more than that:)

I'm not looking for the theory I'm looking for the practical experience of those who actually tow heavy all the time. I know that there are weight limits and I am not looking for excuses to tow excessive loads, I just want to know it you tow loads in the 20K to 25K range have you had problems with either your vehicle or with specific road situations. Again, thanks but I wasn't looking for a theoretical discussion of the law.

Wayne z.

The short answer is yes, you'll run into problems if you're on open roads and DOT catches you without proper, license, insurance and authorities etc to do so. As far as the truck holding up, it's fine and I know others who have a lot more miles on their vehicles (Chevy's, Fords, Dodge's) than me who are also fine. You need to keep up on the maintenance and is also one reason DOT requires daily inspections of your vehicles and access to maintenance records if they want to see them. Getting your registration upped is not an excuse to tow excessive loads, because it's not excessive, if Federal (all states) DOT allows it. I don't have a problem going through scales in any state. It's no big deal if you don't have anything to hide. As long as you follow the law, you won't have a problem. But you need to know the laws (Federal and state) so you don't have any problems.


I didn't think this thread was threatening towards anyone. I know we had some differences in our discussion, but no name calling was implied by me, nor did I think someone was implying it toward me.

I figured my experiences hauling with my 3500 fit this thread perfectly. People can have their opinions on what they want, but I'll listen to and obey the Law before someone on the net.

Also, I will be adding an exhaust brake to my truck for several reasons. Less brake wear and safety reasons in case my trailer brakes go out. I have a BD-Power unit awaiting install, but also looking at Fleece performance turbo brake. My friend has a brake on his 6.7 Dodge and it's nothing short of amazing.

Thanks folks, but this really didn't go where I wanted it to go. I've read the weight police back and forths on RV.net. I'm not looking for the theory I'm looking for the practical experience of those who actually tow heavy all the time. I know that there are weight limits and I am not looking for excuses to tow excessive loads, I just want to know it you tow loads in the 20K to 25K range have you had problems with either your vehicle or with specific road situations. Again, thanks but I wasn't looking for a theoretical discussion of the law.

Wayne z.

I towed my same 5th wheel(with less in it) with a 2500 D/A 4x4. It towed just fine most of the time. I did feel it when passed on the interstates by a speeding tractor trailer. I could also feel it pushing me down grades. I once had the connection disconnected on me and did not know it until I tried to stop. I had to stand on the brakes to stop and there was a pucker moment:o: I have none of those issues with the 3500 and IBC.

I pull a 16000 lb fifth wheel all the time, but about once or twice a month for construction purposes pull a 32' gooseneck with a D5CLGP CAT dozier for a total weight with just the trailer & dozier of 30,000 lbs. Pulled for years with 99 Dodge 5 speed manual trans with 4.10 gears. Have to say the 07 LBZ classic handles it nicely. The Dodge still had more off idle torque. Had 200,000 miles on the dodge when sold last year. With no real problems.

Even though it was dumb, the first couple months I was towing these big trucks on the trailer I had no trailer brakes and stopped this load better than with a 2500 w/ trailer breaks. The 4500 brakes are worth the purchase of this truck alone.

Gasuout

Just bought my tag and in my state (MS), as long and I'm towing an RV and not a commercial application, the B10 tag and a tag for the trailer is legal w/no weight restrictions. I told them I was at or above the GM 23,500 GVWR and they said it only applies to commercial aps. If something bad happens, and an "ambulance chasing lawyer" gets involved (no offence to you "ambulance chasers"), it may not matter how much you are pulling. You have to feel comfortable and always drive w/caution (unlike the 18 wheelers that run past you doing 80 in a driving rain storm)!
Off subject, A great feature to the new integrated brake controller, if/when it's unplugged from the trailer, it chimes in the cab to let you know the connection is lost. I haven't been in the cab to see if there's also a message on the DIC but I bet there is. :)

I tow my 40' 5'er toy hauler that has a 13,700lb UVW and a 18,500 GVW with my 3/4 ton LMM. I'm sure OldSoldier will chime in about this, however i feel safe with my set-up for now. I just have a hard time justifying driving a dually when I only tow about 3% of the time. (900 out of 25000 miles have been towing)

I have pulled 34,000 lbs of hay on my 07 1 ton. I have a 48ft flatbed with electric hyd. brakes and it does just fine.

It's all a matter of how safe you want to be and how comfortable you are towing it. I've towed over 25K a lot with my 2500 and it works fine. I just bought a 3500 too so I'd have more stability. We'll see if it make much difference.

The Pacbrake is not going to bring the truck to a complete stop, exhaust brakes are designed so that you do not have to ride your service brakes or trailer brakes when descending a hill. Thus keeping your foundation brakes cool and ready for any emergency stops you my encounter. I have guys tell me that with the Pacbrake PRXB and the Allison tow haul they can descend almost any 7% grade with 15K # without touching the service brakes from northern BC to California. The final bonus aside form the safety factor is you do not have to use your foundation brakes as much, so you’re saving money on brake jobs. No exhaust brake (regardless of its manufacturer) will increase the amount your vehicle can tow/haul.

I understand about the Pacbrake, I've had them before on other vehicles. They do provide a degree of assistance and control which is always helpful.

WayneZat,
You want "practical Experiance" well here you go. I tow my 42ft. WW 5th wheel trailer loaded CVWR is roughly 28k+ weighed it twice on 2 seperate occations. Now here is my experiance. My 2500Hd towed it almost fine. My rear tires are overloaded. I ran them up to 90psi to keep the temp. down. After 2 years I decided to get a Dually. I have yet to tow with my new truck (still looking for a hitch). I know it is going to be the awnser to my rear tire wows. On my 2500HD I had firestone airbags on for 1 trip. Hated them took them off and went back to rubber snubbers. The truck is never hit the rubber. 4300lb pin weight.
As far as brakes were concerned. NO PROBLEM. I towed 28k off of Donner summit 25+ times. No issues. I towed down into Ashland OR. No issues. Down the Grapevine. No issues.
My brakes have always worked fine. IMHO I find it hard to understand people that discuss towing with trailer brakes that are not functioning properly. I would never drive a vehicle with non functioning brakes or would I tow a trailer with less than perfect brakes. If my brakes fail, Truck Or trailer I would stop and make repairs. I do hold a Commercial Class A. In My state CA. it is required for any TT over 10k and any Fifth Wheel over 15k GVW. No one will convince me that my new 07.5 Dually in anything but safe going down the road with my family in tow. I hope this helps. I dont want to get Legalities. I know I and my vehicle are safe. Allot safer than my 112,000lb. permited daily driver. "thats about all I have to say about that":)
:)