I'm looking at getting a truck again and need a little information. It will be a '01-'03 2500HD somewhere between 75,000 and 100,000 miles and I don't whether to go diesel or gas. The truck will be used pretty much for pulling a fifth-wheel weighing about 10,000# loaded. It will be sitting in the garage more than it will be on the road.

I'm leaning more towards the 8.1 because of the talk of injector problems on the Dmax and I don't know much about diesel motors. Plus the gas motor seems to be less expensive with lower miles then the diesel with high miles ... but yet the 8.1 seems to be a lot harder to find. Any help would be appreciated.

I've had them both. Currently dad still has a 04 8.1.

The 8.1 are excellent engines. Downsides are fuel mileage and oil consumption. Pulling that kind of load your going to be looking at 6-8 MPG (Guessing by my figures).

The Duramax is a great engine. You do hear alot about the injector failures, But you don't hear about it the good ones that are still out there and running stong with 0 injector problems.

If you can afford the extra cost of the diesel, I think it would be a good move. Since i've switched I love mine. You can eaisly gain HP if you wanted with just a chip. 8.1 your pretty much set at whats preprogrammed, costing big bucks for the equivlant power like the Duramax.

I suggest you to drive both and see which one fits you best.

Most of us will give the biased answer..... Get the Diesel. If you are mostly pulling with it and parking it the rest of the time, you will be much happier with the Dmax. You may not notice much difference on an empty test drive, but towing 10K the 8.1 will show its weakness.

You can eaisly gain HP if you wanted with just a chip. 8.1 your pretty much set at whats preprogrammed, costing big bucks for the equivlant power like the Duramax.

First of all, I have an '03 Duramax with 70k miles on it and I regularly tow 28,000 lbs and have NO problems whatsoever.

Another thing, is why in the world would you need a chip to tow a 10,000 lbs trailer? My motor is completely stock and does just fine with the weight I am towing.

As far as getting gas over diesel, go with the diesel. Gas motors generally will last about half as long as diesels because they work harder. The duramax is at least a half-million mile motor if you take care of it.

I never said you need a chip to tow.

I said if you ever wanted the extra get up and go. It's much eaiser with the diesel over the gas. I've owned two of them...

Another thing that most people dont mention is that the Duramax truck will offset the extra cost you pay for it with much better resale value when you sell it, especially with higher miles. Most people will shy away from a gas truck with 100k+ miles. In the long run, you will be much happier with the duramax.

So it's fine if a diesel motor sits more than it's out on the road?

Diesel. There are tons of Duramaxes on the road with no injector failures. Invest in a high quality fuel additive to add at every or every other tank. This will keep fuel system lubed when using ULSD. There is a sticky for the additives, read it.

Sure. Add diesel stabilizer.

even with the injector failure and 2 bad heads on my dmax the bossman wishes he would have gotten it in our service truck over the 8.1 thats in it now

We have both gassers and diesel at the office. My diesel has over 200k and still running like day one. I cant say the same for the gassers here. They lag and putt, but still running. We have Chevys and Fords. The Chevys seem to hold up better longer.

If you can afford it, go with a dmax for towing, even though diesel is .35/gallon more expensive where I live, you will make your money back, and if you are wanting an allison there are a ton of them out there for sale and you can get a pretty good deal if you look long enough. I love my 8.1 but for towing you cant beat a diesel

That was a trick question, right? :think: Ask which is better a diesel or a gasser on a diesel website? Oh I get it now........... :rotflmao:
DURA to the MAX

I wouldn't think it would hurt a diesel to sit anymore than a gas motor. Just make sure if you do let it set that you put in some type of fuel conditioner or anti-gel supplement.

When I am on the road, all of the truck stops sell Howes Fuel treatment which is guaranteed to increase HP, fuel mileage, smoother performance, and it supposed to prevent gelling of diesel in the cold weather. One Liter treats at least 100 gallons of diesel.

I had an 03 8.1L it was a very good truck and I regularly towed 15-20k with it. The truck held up very well the only reason I got rid of it was because of fuel mileage. It got eight around town and a best of twelve on the highway and that was empty. Pulling it was around five to six miles to the gallon. My duramax was getting around twenty to twenty one on the highway empty and about fifteen loaded. Thats reason enough for me to own a diesel. The other bad thing about the 8.1 is I had a real hard time getting rid of it, no dealer wanted it because of the bad fuel mileage.

try towing with both if you can. the power difference is incredible. fuel mileage is almost double. and letting it sit is fine, look in my garage at my trucks home, it doesn't ever tow anything(very very rare) and is driven once a month a total of 18miles! You have to run it at least once a month though, not only to keep the batteries fresh but to keep everything circulated. You also don't want to leave the same tank of fuel in there for a long time. I usually will use the truck for a road trip home(about 400miles round trip) and refill and add diesel kleen and park it in the garage again about every 3-4 months. I am using amsoil and will only change once a year since it only sees like 1000miles, might be a waste to some but I love my truck and want to keep her clean protected and well lubed...... go with a diesel man, you will be back on here thanking us when you do.....

Thanks for all the input guys.

Go with the Duramax, like jcool stated, even if it sits for a few months, its worth it when you go and hook onto your 10k trailer. Keep the fuel in good shape, buy from quality fuel distributors, add some sort of fuel additive and you'll be happy with it, not to mention the fuel economy.

Perm01,

I too was gas owner my whole life and I must say that I'm glad I switched. It is kind of unnerving to read about the bad ones out there but you can have this with any brand, gas or diesel. My log book is showing right around 19,000 miles since I bought it bringing my total to a little over 60,000 trouble free miles. There is going to be a little more in the way of service as far as more fluid and a fuel filter expense but that is more than off set buy the gains while towing, both in milage and power. As with any engine you need to routinely get it up to operating temps and hold it there to drive out the moisture and keep things well lubricated so I would definately put any vehicle on a monthly program for running and driving to keep things 'loose'.

Good luck

i think you'll find if you go with the dmax, all though you say it will be used for towing and sitting in the garage most of the time....if you get the diesel you'll want to drive it more, they're too much fun :D

:exactly: :lol2:

I've owned both and like both. Personally they are both fun trucks, but if its just gonna pull and sit I'd go with the 8.1. The gasser being .40 cents a gallon less and you wont have the diesel maintenance costs. And being from mn like yourself, Its much easier to find a low mileage nice 8.1 than it is to find a low mileage nice duramax, and cheaper to buy too. Where in Mn are you located?

Up in Lindstrom ... almost Wisconsin.

For towing that much weight it doesn't matter that gas is .40 cheaper because the mileage difference gas would have to be more then .40 cents cheaper to actually save money. In the end with the 8.1 it would cost you less to fill the tank but you will be filling the tank alot more often every time you drive it so the bottom line is it would cost more despite the per gallon cost of gas and diesel.

On another note I wouldn't buy an LB7 to save my life. The injector problem can cost thousands of dollars to fix if you don't get covered by the "special policy" and there are many of us that have had blown motors due to injector failures.

There are people with injector problems that change their fuel filter on a regular bassis and put additives in their fuel so don't think that you can avoid the problems with injectors through regular maintenance. I'm an example of that.

I would recommend an 04 or newer LLY but towing 10k you will be much happier with Diesel even if your only towing a few times a year.

Well, you're asking on a diesel forum so the vast majority of answers will be.....um diesel.

I'm very happy with my 8.1, I've tipped the scales at over 19,000 lbs when moving hay and it does it just fine. Moving my hay includes a 12% grade descent for 4 miles and a 14% grade ascent for 6 miles. Air temp is usually between 95 and 105 degrees. Engine and tranny temp hardly move off of their normal range. MPG runs 9-10 towing and 12 empty. It tows my camp trailer in the Montana and Idaho passes and is able to maintain speed limits.

Both engines will do just fine for you. As for the endless debate of cost analysis, resale value only is valid if you ever plan to sell the truck. I bet it's a wash anyway because you pay more for the diesel in the first place so resale value had better be higher than a gas truck. Everything else depends on how many miles you put on.

Then there's personal preference. I don't like the smell of diesel or the noise. Granted they are leaps and bounds quieter than older generation diesels but still louder than I want. I also don't put a lot of miles on my truck either. There's alot of 8.1's with well over 200,000 miles still going strong. Mine uses 1 quart of oil every 5,000 miles, I wouldn't consider that excessive.

If the diesel gets 12 mpg towing and the gas gets 7 mpg and the cost of diesel is 3.50 vs gas 3.10 and you drive 10,000 miles a year your fuel cost difference will be $1511.91 (in favor of the diesel). But the diesel will cost more for oil changes, fuel filters, additives. So knock that down by 2 oil changes and one fuel filter a year or about $150 for a net savings of $1361.91. At that rate, with a $5000 difference in purchase cost you will break even in 3 years 8 months. Which means the diesel is an obvious winner.

If the diesel only gets 11 pulling that tall wind break and you slow down the gas and get 8 mpg, the net difference is $543.18 a year and it will take 9 years to break even.


So the dollars and cents answer depends on the observed milage you will get with either.

The worry answer is that the 8.1 won't have a potential $3-4000 injector failure. Either engine will last the life of the truck with your useage.

The towing answer is the diesel beats it hands down.

The monkey wrench is the possiblility of injectors going out and costing $3-4000.

If the diesel gets 12 mpg towing and the gas gets 7 mpg and the cost of diesel is 3.50 vs gas 3.10 and you drive 10,000 miles a year your fuel cost difference will be $1511.91 (in favor of the diesel). But the diesel will cost more for oil changes, fuel filters, additives. So knock that down by 2 oil changes and one fuel filter a year or about $150 for a net savings of $1361.91. At that rate, with a $5000 difference in purchase cost you will break even in 3 years 8 months. Which means the diesel is an obvious winner.

If the diesel only gets 11 pulling that tall wind break and you slow down the gas and get 8 mpg, the net difference is $543.18 a year and it will take 9 years to break even.


So the dollars and cents answer depends on the observed milage you will get with either.

The worry answer is that the 8.1 won't have a potential $3-4000 injector failure. Either engine will last the life of the truck with your useage.

The towing answer is the diesel beats it hands down.

The monkey wrench is the possiblility of injectors going out and costing $3-4000.

And also matters how many miles he actually plans on towing, Im not sure if he said but if it only amounts to 3-4,000 miles a year then it will take a lot longer to come out better than the 8.1, not saying its the best choice but I think it really just comes down to how much he's going to drive it.

I don't believe we will be doing much more then 4000 miles per camping year. The place we go most often is only about 50 miles away from our house. We will more than likely start branching out, but it will probably still be within a few hundred miles and maybe only a couple-few times a year.

Diesel will hold up longer. And have a much higher resale value. Like others said you hear more about problems than what working. I dont know anyone who ownes an LB7 who had injector problems. They did extend warranty to X years and 200k miles on them however.

agree with the point it will hold up longer, but you could get into a decent used 8.1 for under 20k, good luck finding a "nice" dmax for under 20k even with over 100k miles.
just my .02
With the amount you are going to use it I would say it woudl come down to what you want to spend and what you would rather drive.

I've had both and pulled the same 7000lb camping trailer. I think a lot depends on where you plan on pulling that 10,000lb trailer. Out here in the Rockies I wouldn't even try again to pull my 7K trailer with a gasser considering 8 & 9% grades with some tight hairpin curves around mountains. Except for very rare occasions this D-Max/Allison combination most of the times never causes me to use the brakes in Tow Haul/Cruise drive. No fanny pucker for me when driving through the mountains with my trailer.

x2 on pucker factor. Diesel is the way to go... cures that right away.

The towing portion of your camping vacations will be very enjoyable and relaxed with the diesel. :)

I don't believe we will be doing much more then 4000 miles per camping year. The place we go most often is only about 50 miles away from our house. We will more than likely start branching out, but it will probably still be within a few hundred miles and maybe only a couple-few times a year.Where I have found the diesel to have a huge advantage is when you get up in altitude. If you are going to be towing at low elevation, I think the 8.1 would work well for you. Don't count on the diesel allways outlasting the 8.1. They are really durable engines, we have a couple with over 300k(hard miles), and I have seen a few with over 400.:eek: Get up in 5000'+ elevation you will have a DOG on your hands though. If you go diesel I would go for a 04 up LLY, or LBZ.

I Have One Bro-n-law With An 03 2500 Hd 8.1l, & Another Bro-n-law With A 05 Ford 6.0 Dsl. My 02 Dmax Out Pulls Both And Also Gets Better Mileage. Regularly Pull 6-7,000 Lb Travel Trailer And Other Loads Up To Around 8,000lb At Times. As Far As Problems Mine Is Getting Its Injectors Replaced For The First Time Right Now At 137,000. Have Had No Other Problems Until This. The Ford Has Been A Major Problem For The In-law. By 70,000 Miles, It Has Had Head Gaskets And Injectors Replaced, The 8.1 Has Held Up Well, But No Mileage And Not Near The Power My Dmax Has. I Would Say Go With The Dmax.

I have a 2003 LB7 which I bought with 46,000 miles on it and it only cost $30,000 - it is the truck in my sig and in my garage. So far there have been no injector problems - but even if there are in the future, I am not going to worry about it for a while since I have 3 more years and 130,000 miles to go until that warranty expires.

Yes, for those of you that don't know, there is a 7 year, 200,000 mile extended warranty by GM for the LB7 injector problems.

Anyway, even towing the weight I tow (up to 28,000 lbs), I average 11.9 mpg (this is loaded on the way to the jobsites, and empty on the way back as a combination average).

And even though my truck was used for hauling hay before I bought it, it is still "nice." Sure, there was a cosmetic defect here and there, but overall I love my truck and am glad I got it.

As stated above, sure, get a gas - if you don't hardly ever want to drive it and don't plan to sell it. But if your truck is going to work for you on a regular basis, then the logical answer is to get the diesels performance, mileage, stability and value.

Remember, General Motors bought Isuzu for the Duramax motor when they saw how much power it produced running as generators at the dams.