This is Mrs. Redmax. Hubby took our 2003 2500 HD and new Cameo fiver to a CAT scale today. With him out of truck and camper empty, we were within 300 lbs of GVWR for truck. Not good.


I think obvious choice is new 2004 dually 3500 with crew cab, long box, 4x4, Duramax/Allison. We can get an okay deal with trade. Hubby says ask you folks. Anyone upgraded for more GVWR? Pros and cons of 3500's? Mileage differences?

I've never had a 2500, I started with a 3500. Tow a 32' Haulmark bumper tow. Don't even know it's back there!!


I average 15.5 - 16 mpg around town and on the highway combined. If I do just highway I do about 16.5, if I keep my foot out of it I can get 18.


I've actually never checked the towing mileage.


Love the 3500 and would never consdier towing a big trailer with anything but a dually.


Besides they look cool!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Made the run to weigh in & look at a 3500. Steady 70 mph on interstate, impressive towing. My 2500 weighs in at 8900 lb with the trailer attached , a full tank of fuel, and no driver. The trailer is dry & empty so we're going to be way over on the truck gvwr when we're loaded up to travel. Looked at the 3500 & took a test drive. I hate to part with my first new truck (3000 miles on her) but wife is not comfortable with the weights. GMC is a little misleading with their "towing/load capacities. No insult here but I think 3500's are "butt ugly". Wish you could upgrade ties without playing with warantee issues. Oh well just ranting....Dually here I come.


Dana

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

You may be OK. I would load the truck and trailer and go weigh the whole unit again. It is possible that you can put more weight towards the back of the trailer and remove pin weight. I believe the GCVWR of a 2500HD and 3500 are the same. (22,000 Lbs.) Only way to find out is load her up and try it again.

RMAX;


If your truck & trailer weigh 8900 lbs. thats the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (truck & cargo). You only need to stay below the Gross COMBINATION Weight Rating (truck,cargo & trailer). It is 22000 lbs for the 2500HD & 3500

Was there anything in the camper? If not then yes you are indeed in the market for two more tires.


I get 18 out of mine if I keep it at 70 or below.


What is the campers GVWR?

My total weight truck and 5th wheel was 18,120 lbs. so I'm ok as far as GCWR. I'm also ok as far as front and rear axle weights (4020 ft. & 4920 rear). My problem is that "by the book" total weight on the truck shouldn't exceed the gvwr of 9200 lb. We'll be adding another 6-700 lb directly to the truck (passengers - me, wife, dog, cat, tools, fuel etc) We'll also add 1500 lbs + to the trailer (water, food, clothes, etc) 20% or so of which adds to the pin weight. So when I get all loaded the weight directly on the truck will be in the 10,000 lb range or 800 or so over the trucks gvwr. I think we'd be fine, I've been overloading a 93 3500 single wheel truck for years buttttt my passenger & navigator is concerned about running over weight. All that being said if I have to go to a dually to maintain the "comfort" level in a 22 year marriage....well guys have bigger problems


Dana

wushaw


Trailer was essentially empty..we just bought it 2 weeks ago. 5th wheel gvwr is 14000. It weighed 11340 empty. Looks like those two new tires are going to cost me $6500 each plus one lightly used 2003 2500HD ext cab.

I've seen so many people pulling a three car wedge trailer behind a 3500 D**ge, F**d or GM truck. They are pulling WAY over the trucks GVWR. They break some 6 speed transmissions I hear, but they keep going. I love my dually, much more stable when towing than a SRW. I Personally want TOO much truck. For that much trailer, how about a 4500 pick-up. I would want more than a 1200 lb increase in GVWR for $13 k.($6500 per tire)

Dang, your going to take a big hit, trading in a 2003 that soon. Someone traded in a 2003 maroon colored D/A dually at a local dealer here, (Classic Chevrolet in Mentor,OH) not sure what they want for it.

Though we had a few Dooleys to chose from, wife and I opted for the short bed extended cab. Some were only about $2K more. So far it has met our expectations. We have 4 different trailers that we pull, and the current truck seems to have a stouter set of rear springs than the 2000 SRW 3500 it replaced.

I think your will be fine as is, personally. If all your axles are within the limits and the pin weight is less then the max what would be the issue being slightly over the GVWR? Your trailer does have brakes, right? If you wander over to the rv.net forum you will see that you aren't alone. On the other hand, you got to do what makes you (or your navigator) feel comfortable. Good luck.

A dooley is usually the best choice for running high pin weights or a heavy camper. However I think you will be fine running at or near the weights that you mentioned. You may want to consider heavier duty tires and air bags, but the axle shouldn't concern you.


Another idea is to modify the trailer or the way you load it. I added a forward axle to a trailer once and it worked great. You would probably want to consult a trailer shop before doing anything that you are not comfortable with.


Many of the guys that I have worked with run WAY overweight every day and somehow seem to get on just fine. It's probably not the smartest thing to do but it does seem to prove that the suggested numbers are somewhat trivial.


One more matter to think about is accident liability. I'm nothing of an expert but I think the rules vary somewhat from state to state. --SS

Rmax what kind of $$$ are they giving u on the trade and what does the truck u want actually cost?


I work for GM and have 1 GMS supplier card (4% more than I pay) left which will get about 13-14% off MSRP plus u can use rebates.


If u want it PM me w/ your address and I'll send it out.


If anyone else wants one I can try to get more, PM me.


I've been trading trucks about every 6 months and the dealer gives me about what I paid for it on trade, so check other dealers and y may find one that will give a better deal.


My dealer usually has my trade sold before I trade it in.

Just went through the same situation. Sold my 03 GMC 2500HD CC 4X4 D/A and ordered an 04 GMC 3500 EXT Cab dually. Sure hated to make that move but my new truck arrived last week and I am getting it rigged up at the present. I bought the 03 in Jan 03 and my Jayco Designer 32 RLTS in May. I really thought I had every thing figured out, but changed my mind, took my whipping and made the change. My trailer weighs 10700 and pin weigt is 2370 (empty). I think I have made a good choice and I certainly hope you will feel the same with your choice. Good luck.

RMAX,


The new 3500 will weigh in @8000lbs loaded and ready to go and if you load up the trailer to its gross weight of 14000 you will be at your limit which is not bad, My trailer weighed in at 15320 and I had a GCW of 23320. At that weight I had difficulty with a mountain pass going to Lake City Co. It was a little much for the truck. I think I have fixed that problem now (see sig).

I have said it before and I will say it again.


If your towing anything over @7500 lbs....you need a dually!~


Anything else is not safe.


Now I am talking about towing full time on long hauls.





Not a tow from your farm to your buddies farm 4 miles away. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


Then of course load your hay up to 30000lbs because the duramax and allison will pull it no probs.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Thanks all for the input. Wished I could take you up on it DMax Tim but we're closing the deal tomorrow. Sure liked that red 2500 but the new silver 3500 looks good too. Anyone got an auxillary or replacement tank on a 3500 they like. We're going to be long & bulky so I'd like to fuel up a little less often.


Thanks


Dana

Gradyghost


I don't understand your logic, care to explain? I've done alot of towing in my day and for a fifth wheel, a srw is just fine as long as the hitch weight is within your limits. I'm sure you know, but the only difference between a dually and 2500HD D/A GM is springs and dual rear wheels. You need dual rear wheels if you plan on towing a tag-a-long of any weight or length to combat sway, but not a fifth wheel or gooseneck. As a matter of fact I am rated at the factory to tow a heavier fifth wheel than a similar equiped 3500 DRW. AND, I can take my truck thru the drive thru and it will fit in my garage, or canopy while i'm on the road.

neverenuf


If you look at one of my earlier posts I laid out the weight numbers. I was all right as far as axle weights, trailer weight, and gcwr. Where we ran into trouble was with the total weight on the truck which was about 10,000 lbs which is over the gvwr of the truck (9200 lb). I have no problem with that but Mrs. Rmax does so we pick up the new dooly today. A new srw with a gvwr of 10,000 lb is coming out next year. That might have been the answer.

RMAX,


I did just what your thinking about. I had an '01 2500 and was pulling a 5th wheel that left me just a few hundred pounds short of rear axle capacities. I wasn't too concerned about GVW (over that) but I have owned trailers for years and they, like waistlines, have a tendancy to balloon over time. I wanted to carry everything I wanted and not be worried about it. I was also concerned about having an accident (my fault and having anyone question the weight of my rig and lay the costs off on me -- many will say never happen but it won't for sure with me, I'm not over any more).


I had airbags and no power problems. I still made the trade. I find the rig more stable in winds. I gave up about 1.5 mpg but I only have a few thousand miles on my '04 and I expect it to get better. I averaged around 18 mpg with the '01 and am getting about 16.5 with the '04. Towing MPG was around 12 and is now about 10.5 to 10.7.


Good luck,


Bob

RMAX





I understand Mrs. Rmax's position. If you look at what I pull, I am overweight while loaded. The 3500 dually wouldn't help me there. My question was to Gradyghost. Maybe he was kidding in his post about weight, or just really proud of his dually.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif If he was serious than I don't think any amount of words, logic or real world experience will help him.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I have ask several times on several different forums why the 2500 HD is only rated for 9200 GVWR when it's the same truck as the 3500 with two less tires and rear springs. The only answer that comes back is that it's a number that derived by the lawyers, not the engineers. There is no engineering reason for the lower rating. It's only there for legal reasons to fit the truck into established ranges for registration purposes in some states and to limit corporate liability. There is no engineering reason for the GVWR to be less than the combined axle ratings.

case680e; So, you don't think that heavier springs and the wieght handling capacity of two extra tires would add to the trucks capacity. I'm glad that I didn't have your math teacher. 2+2=0

I think on the same lines as 680 does, look at all the real trucks 12k front axle and 38 or 40k rears on a semi and they add them up so u get 50 or 52k GVW.


Now the P/U trucks get 4.5K front spring and 6.084k rear spring and that equals 9.2k ???????


If the tire load capacity is above the axle load it shouldn't matter if single or dual tires.


The duallys have the little small tires so u also have less sidewall flex.


I see that the 3500 are getting 9200# rear axle and 6500# springs on the SRW and 8600# springs on the DRW.


What about all the big trucks that run super singles, they aren't cut back on axle load.

case680e; So, you don't think that heavier springs and the wieght handling capacity of two extra tires would add to the trucks capacity.


I never said that. Yes, a 3500 will hold more weight. The question is why does GVWR not equal GFAW plus GRAW. The usual argument is that GVWR is controlled by the weakest link in the total truck and if some one part is lower rated, then GVWR will be set for that one part and may be less than the rating of both axles combined. This is NOT the case with the 2500 HD. There are no weak links or the 3500 will have the same rating. They are the same until you get down to the springs and wheels. If GM says it's safe to load the truck to 4800 lbs on the front axle and 6084 lbs on the rear axle then why is GVWR not 10884 lbs if properly distributed?


What happened to the missing 1684 lbs? Look to the lawyers, not the engineers. Some sates register trucks by GVWR. If it costs less to register, it is easier to sell. Mostly, I think they are trying to limit their liability by de-rating the trucks.

A friend of mine had a chevy 3500 work truck with an extended chassis to hold a 18' landscaper ramp bed. He said the gvwr of the truck was increased because of the legnth of the chassis. I've also noticed gvwr's in a F*rd brochure F550 - longer wheelbase, higher gvwr.

I believe that acceleration and de-acceleration have to be considered. In hard acceleration, with a trailer in tow, it's theoretically possible for the entire weight of the truck, plus the tongue weight, to momentarily be on the rear axle. Just watch the truck pulls! Likewise, in a hard stop additional weight is momentarily transferred to the front axle. I'm not sure how that specifically affects the reduced GVWR, but it must be a factor. As for the longer wheelbase permitting a greater GVWR, everything else being the same, it does make sense engineering-wise.


Cracker Edited by: Cracker