First, MikeL no need for flames. Just looking for a strictly technical point of view.

I understand the clutches in the allison need to be upgraded to a more reliable friction surface. I understand the torque converter neeeds to be stiffened up so that it will not slip and overheat. But when it comes to the valve body I am lost.

Bully dogs thrifty little kit claims for 100.00 dollars you can drill a few holes, add some new springs/vales and whola, 50 extra HP worth of holding capacity. So to me if I can currently add 70 HP very safely to a stock Allison this kit will allow me to very safely add 120 HP to the stock Allison.

So I understand this bullydog kit has been brought up a millon times on this site. And every time the resident experts and also a few end users basically state that the kit is worthless. I BELIEVE YOU!

Just tell me why. Tell me that the transgo not only adds the bullydog part but does more. What more?


Basically I am trying to understand the technical, physics point of view on why this thrifty little kit is not even worth consideration.

:rolleyes: SORRY FOR HI-JACKING THIS........

But I can't wait to hear the answer.........IIRC dmaxallitech said "just throw the $100 out the window while driving" or something to that effect............):h

Mike will explain it...........I was informed that it was a waste of time and $100........

I wait to hear the response............

T:cool: NY

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/lurk5.gif (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1549321423#)
OK I've got my popcorn and I'm going to watch this one play out. :D

man, I am running out of hundred dollar bills....

In a nutshell... you cant polish a terd.

The BD valves only adjust pressure, they do not fix the inherent weakness in the C2 clutch pack like the Trans go kit does. They use pressure to compensate for low clamping. I dont remember the exact measurements, but the mods that the transgo kit does to the C2 piston changes from ~11" sq to ~19"sq. Thats a huge improvement. Also I dont know what size the holes are for the BD kit but if they are different, then it may cost more money to do the Transgo kit if you have to replace the spacer plate. The true gains of the kit are so minimal its hardly worth the investment/time to put it in, regardless of how easy/cheap it is. Do a search and show me one satisfied customer...

Just save your money and do it right. Do you think that these trans companies would sell so many 2-4k kits if you could fix it for 100 bucks?

Ok, Mike, your turn.....

I am not pimping the bullydog by any means. I think it's about as good as the vornado or other products along the same lines. I just want a technical explanation that clearly discredits this product.

Today on trucks with Stacey David, he was pimping Bully Dog products. He basically stated that with a Bullydog dyno dominator on level 3 stacked with a Bullydog power pup on level 1, this trans upgrade was all that was needed to tow and play hard at these power levels (150 HP). Not to mention the 130,000 pound semi/backhoe that he was towing.

A technical explanation goes alot further than just taking somebodys word for it. I know you and Mike are famous and all but a little explanation goes a long ways.

Bronco,
You also realize that Bully Dog (et al) paid a fee to have their products showcased on trucks.
So basically, Bully Dog pays the money, writes the script and Stacey does the show.

Yeah I know. Ever since Steve Cole mentioned that's how it works. He said something like 25k to get the large segment of the show. Even knowing that you still want to believe what you watch.

"Even knowing that you still want to believe what you watch."...........kinda like watching spiderman but he can really fly):h..............I saw the segment too............we are not getting the whole story..............I also noticed some Banks ads............Is amazing what you can make people believe with advertising..................a few of your enzyte pills in the tranny fluid bronco would probably have the same effect as the bdog kit...save your money

that 130 million ton semi was not being towed in 5th gear.. but first or second, and I betcha in low range. A stock trans would do that.

It was on gravel for one thing. The tires were taking the grunt of the load. Dry pavement and that poor little ujoint would have shrapneled. Maybe that dmax had some enzyte in the fuel tank? :D

I will make this simple. The BD valves will raise control main pressure and nothing else. They will probably give you a firm shift right after install, make you feel like you have a killer trans. They will lull you into a false sense of security if you have serious horsepower imho because the TCM will back that pressure down when it sees it ( remember I told you guys the TCM is worse than your wives). Transgo uses an inovative ball and spring in the trim valves which make the Ally shift like it is stock till you hit the throttle and the balls blow off and pressure just went up. When you are done playing, the balls reseat and the TCM might say WTF was that):h but it will only see normal valvebody operation so we just fooled it. It took Transgo and Diesel Tech a while to come up with that. It works. If you can not spend the big bucks for a trans upgrade, do the Transgo shift kit (valvebody part of it) and it will help. Do the rest later when the trans is apart. Save all the old parts just in case you decide to go a different route on the trans, you will need them.

mike

dang Mike, I waited till midnight for that? I was expecting better out of you....

dang Mike, I waited till midnight for that? I was expecting better out of you....
He must be tired...........or tired of repeating himself........):h

He must be tired...........or tired of repeating himself........):h
):h ):h

Let me see if I got this right. The BD shift kit will work for a while, but once the TCM is use to the high line pressure it will back it off? Then it is back to normal type shifts because the pressure is the same as stock?

Let me see if I got this right. The BD shift kit will work for a while, but once the TCM is use to the high line pressure it will back it off? Then it is back to normal type shifts because the pressure is the same as stock?
In a nutshell YES. The TCM looks to keep the shift a certain way, anything outside that and it will readjust to get it back there.

Sounds like the Bulldog kit is a waste of money,then how about the Transgo Shift kit. Is it any good?

I have been associated with Transgo for nearly 40 years. I use their Shift Kits on many different transmissions, foreign and domestic. Joe Webb at Suncoast uses them as well. I think they are great.
mike

If you want to compare look at

Bully dog (http://www.bullydog.com/products.pl?item=GM_Shift_Enhancers-C-E-) I thought it was $100 not $153001 :eek:

transgo install pics (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1527)

That says a lot in my book...

Ox

The Transgo Kit works. It is what everyone else uses as a starting point in any of the High Performance rebuilds. On a stock transmission with stock clutches and a Transgo kit we have run our Xtreme program for over 20,000 with no problems. Althought that's well beond what it was designed for it worked fine.

Seems to work good with your triple disc too ):h

...Ox

Mike,

That was an excellent response! :eek: You must have made a New Year's resolution.

As I was just curious enough to wait for an intellegent answer as to technically why the old B&M shift kit trick will not work on an Allison.

Once again you prove to be the master of all things Allison! :ro)

Also goes to show everyone that you have to get up pretty early in the morning to fool the on-board computers...

You could also get a lot more sleep just coming up with "Tips of the Week" or "Why the old dog tranny tricks will not work on the new pups!"

Thanks Mike!


I will make this simple. The BD valves will raise control main pressure and nothing else. They will probably give you a firm shift right after install, make you feel like you have a killer trans. They will lull you into a false sense of security if you have serious horsepower imho because the TCM will back that pressure down when it sees it ( remember I told you guys the TCM is worse than your wives). Transgo uses an inovative ball and spring in the trim valves which make the Ally shift like it is stock till you hit the throttle and the balls blow off and pressure just went up. When you are done playing, the balls reseat and the TCM might say WTF was that):h but it will only see normal valvebody operation so we just fooled it. It took Transgo and Diesel Tech a while to come up with that. It works. If you can not spend the big bucks for a trans upgrade, do the Transgo shift kit (valvebody part of it) and it will help. Do the rest later when the trans is apart. Save all the old parts just in case you decide to go a different route on the trans, you will need them.

mike