I've been working with Joe at Suncoast over the past couple of months to come up with a converter that better suits my needs. At present I have one that works very well. I do find it hard to hold the truck back when trying to spool boost on the line. I also find that it tends to push the truck a bit on slippery surfaces like my shop floors when wet, and non lockup grade braking is greatly improved. I don't know how well I am going to like it on slippery roads though.


I'm far from an expert when it comes to torque converter science, so I'll trust the words of Joe Webb when asked how to achieve what I want:

"Torque converter design is a balance between efficiency and torque multiplication. Needless to say it has to be matched to the engine & vehicle. Many factors are involved to achieve the best compromise for acceleration, performance, and driveability. When I see increased efficiency and greater torque multiplication used together I question the facts. Having been "in" the torque converter business for 40 years I am able to produce endless combinations of pump, stator, and turbine for many different results, but the old rule "for every action there is a reaction" still applies. Modifying the stator for higher torque multiplication will not result in greater efficiency. Actually eliminating the stator completely would give the most efficient converter, the only problem would be it would take a long time down a steep hill to get moving. Making different configurations for different requests are easy, all the customer needs to do is ask. And I might add it should not cost anymore. The twisted driveshaft from my truck is a good example of increased torque multiplication."





I should add that I've also been working with Clint at ATS on the same subject. Sent my full trans in for evaluation and updates, and am eager to see how it works when I get it back...

LOL... John, I know about the 'pushing in the snow' and more pedal pressure at a stoplight with tighter convertors. You get used to it. As a side note, trans temps do get a bit warmer in stop and go driving with the tighter convertors. Although the temps are slightly lower at cruise and while towing, the benefit more than makes up for it IMO

If you are running a big program a tighter converter( lower stall) will benefit you to a certain extent. If you turn that power down for normal street driving, you will be dead on the initial takeoff, and turbo spool will take forever. I think the converter choice should be matched to the all around driving one does. I think a tighter converter for most of us is wrong. If you are running really big horsepower and launching with nitros; then there is a benefit because you need to kill some of that power off the line.

mike

I find it helps me when towing as well Mike, Most of the benefit that i see (in my useage) is when towing heavy... there is no 'lag' in the trans... a little bit in the turbo, but it seems that in hilly terrain i can more effectively use the power i have. X amount of throttle now translates immediately to X amount of forward propulsion.

Fuel economy seems to bear this out. I have lost 1 mpg in town, but gained over 1.5 mpg while towing or highway cruising.

Convertors especially seem 'Black Art' to me and only slightly less confusing than the workings of an automatic transmission.

The big mystery to me is why someone has not invented a centripedal acceleration based variable vane stator in an automatic transmission so you could have the best of both worlds.

........mouth-full

Heck Juice........ just slap a waveplate in a trans and let the pump work it out. As soon as the resistance subsides it will wobble a little more for speed.

There's nothing new in this, Buick had a variable vane torque converter in the Dynaflow trans in 1955.
I was a teenager at the time and a friend's Mom had a '55 Century, one of the hottest cars of the day. Not quite as quick as a Chev. off the line, but get up past 75mph and it left the Chevys behind.
He was a bit of an automotive genius and figured out how to make that VV TC go into low pitch in low range gear, was only supposed to work in drive gear, which was direct, versus the reduction in low range.
The boys with the '55 chevys never could figure out why that big old Buford was blowing their doors off!

Juice

GM in fact built a twin stator for the 4L80E which made small blocks pull loads like a big block. They discontinued it because it multiplyed too much tq. If you were to use such a converter in the Ally you would break all kinds of things like driveshafts considering the horsepower levels we are reaching. I guess it would be interesting for a short while.):h Hmmmmmmm.

While I agree tighter is not always better one must know how it got there. You can cut the stator to open it up, you loose torque multiplication and increase heat at low speeds. This is just wrong and it feels like you lost 50 Hp on a stock truck off the line. It's also the cheapest way to do it. The trick is to keep the torque multiplication and tighten the converter. This reduces the heat load at low speed, couples quicker at high engine speeds because it's more efficient and with proper setup you can event increase torque multiplication. So what's the downside you ask................... in order to do all it does cost a bit more. So you can take the cheap way out or spend a little extra and get it all.

OK I really have tried to exercise some self control............but I just can't hold out any longer.......................

Tighter is better!

Not just in torque converters.....so many other things as well! ):h


Dear lord I apologize for that last one and please be with the starving Pygmies down in "New Guniea" (Read like...Larry the Cable Guy):D

Just walked in from driving my truck around for about 45 minutes....it's been back together for about 2 hours now with the new TTS triple....Yeah tighter sucks...rrrrriiight. It's freaken AWESOME!!!! I can't wait to get on some dry pavement and really feel it. Hat's off to Steve Cole!!!


Ox

The only time a tighter convertor will "Bite us in the A$$" so to speak is when the new bigger turbos come out (Towing ETC). Without the higher RPM Flash, it will take a couple 'Mississippi's' for meaningful spool to occur.

In the meantime you will have about killed darn near every mosquito within a 3 block radius. The upside is you might also get a tree hugger along the way!

Juice,

Person #1 - An individual who uses there truck for a daily driver, towing, is content with 500 or so HP, isn't interested in upgrading their turbo (or replacing them more often than the fuel filter ):h ), and doesn't drag or pull.

Person #2 - An individual who is pushing the "outer limits" of the engine and its design, is content only with 700 or so HP for a couple of weeks and then starts looking for ways to find more, desperately wants to upgrade their turbo and can't wait for a quality aftermarket turbo to become available, and drags from red light to red light daily while pulling on the weekend.

The question really is which person are you and not which TC (tighter or not) is better.

Me.... well I would say I'm person #1... today anyway :D . When things change (and they will) I will live with what the consequences are.... or upgrade/modify things to adjust.

But for right now the TTS triple flat out rocks for every application I currently use it for.... :) and I am more than pleased with its results. :)

Just my 2 cents.......

By the way..... Happy new year all ):h

Juice,

Person #1 - An individual who uses there truck for a daily driver, towing, is content with 500 or so HP, isn't interested in upgrading their turbo (or replacing them more often than the fuel filter ):h ), and doesn't drag or pull.25% of my personality fits that profile

Person #2 - An individual who is pushing the "outer limits" of the engine and its design, is content only with 700 or so HP for a couple of weeks and then starts looking for ways to find more, desperately wants to upgrade their turbo and can't wait for a quality aftermarket turbo to become available, and drags from red light to red light daily while pulling on the weekend.70% of my personality is here.... the other 5% is playing with the Juicegrips(TM)):h

The question really is which person are you and not which TC (tighter or not) is better.

Me.... well I would say I'm person #1... today anyway :D . When things change (and they will) I will live with what the consequences are.... or upgrade/modify things to adjust.

But for right now the TTS triple flat out rocks for every application I currently use it for.... :) and I am more than pleased with its results. :)

Just my 2 cents.......

By the way..... Happy new year all ):hI do know what i have driven in .... for bare knuckles knockdown dragracing, the tighter convertor at the track is better as most leave the line with some boost built. That said, once we get into twin chargers or a super single, it will make for a bit of a lag pig before we see meaningful power..... and you will probably see more smoke in gears 1 and 2 until spooled.
I do like the tighter convertor and there is another one tighter yet that i have yet to try..... but i have a feeling that said convertor would be too overwhelming on the street. Pullers and Draggers would love it, but since i hotshot and pull trailers, I do not think i will even explore that avenue.
MikeL, BillK, Joe,Steve Cole, already know about tighter convertors VS turbo size VS Operating Altitude, VS Towing/Racing and would be a much better source of information on the subject than i would be.
I know what this convertor is.... can'tCensored say at this point, but I believe it is the tightest I will go unless Twins are in my future. Great for a stock single charger, but for an ATS5000 system it might be too much for reasons of turbo lag..... Since i am not running an ATS 5000 though, it is only speculation on my part.

Juice

Some day we will meet and I will bring the keg.:ro) You are good.:D Happy New Year.:D

mike

a little rattle never hurt...........

Juice

Some day we will meet and I will bring the keg.:ro) You are good.:D Happy New Year.:D

mike
A Keg Party GTG Sounds doable!:D

Juice........ I call BullCensored t on your answers.

1. Drive the ever living snot out of it.. until it breaks. :D

2. Drive it as hard as possible without breaking it... just so you don't get passed pulling a trailer.:ro)

Juice........ I call BullCensored t on your answers.

1. Drive the ever living snot out of it.. until it breaks. :D

2. Drive it as hard as possible without breaking it... just so you don't get passed pulling a trailer.:ro)
HEY!

I resemble that remark!):h
And it's flied lice you plick!:eek: ):h

As a follow up, I've been running the same converter that Joe used in the pic of the twisted driveshaft for some time now and really enjoy it. I find that it motivates the truck much more aggressively even at idle. I run my trucks through a Lazer touchless wash frequently. These have a treadle pedal to sense vehicle position. My previous converters, including the stocker in my 2005 make it hard to inch through the blower and over the treadle. You need to "gas it" to get it to move and then it goes too fast so you go back to the brake. With my current converter I just ease up on the brake a bit and it moves. It will idle away from a stop well, even with a trailer.

I've been thinking about ways to test this, and may do some further testing soon...

As a follow up, I've been running the same converter that Joe used in the pic of the twisted driveshaft for some time now and really enjoy it. I find that it motivates the truck much more aggressively even at idle. I run my trucks through a Lazer touchless wash frequently. These have a treadle pedal to sense vehicle position. My previous converters, including the stocker in my 2005 make it hard to inch through the blower and over the treadle. You need to "gas it" to get it to move and then it goes too fast so you go back to the brake. With my current converter I just ease up on the brake a bit and it moves. It will idle away from a stop well, even with a trailer.

I've been thinking about ways to test this, and may do some further testing soon...
John, I am with you on the car wash thing, same problem. I have not picked a converter yet as I need to ride with a few people that have offerd and I have been swamped at work.:( But my issue is that anything I use must work for play and towing/snowplowing, a tall order I think:confused: . Is the unit you are using custom or a std from one of the big tc manufactures?

This sounds more like an issue with the programmer than a converter. If you have a programmer with a twitchy pedal you must get a tighter converter to deaden the effect.

The fact that you just release the pedal to roll over objects where others stand still pretty much sums it up for me.

Blizzard, I am running a Suncoast at present. Joe will know it as the pretzel converter as it made a pretzel out of his driveshaft.

I like it, and Elaine likes it (or hasn't complained which means...) as it is assertive down low. I have another variation that I am supposed to try some day.

A tight converter may be a mother to controll plowing......may, I duno. It was a worry of mine anyway. My regular "lose" converter works just fine for plowing and with TH it locks quickly and heat aint an issue and there is always enough grunt there to light up the tires

So what are the disadvantages of running such a tight converter? Is winter driving the only disadvantage?

So what are the disadvantages of running such a tight converter? Is winter driving the only disadvantage?

More efficient fluid coupling means better response when the convertor is not in lockup.

The only downside I noticed was higher heat production than the stock OEM convertor in stop and go city traffic. (you are on the brakes more working against convertor 'creep')

Juice, what happened to your signature?

Juice, what happened to your signature?

I was bad. Instead of outright banning me for a scrolling signature, it was the manager's decision to take it away from me.
I was warned twice, and removed it twice, taught other members how to do it (I get bored easy i guess)
So there it is, I made a mistake (more than once not unusual) and get to pay for it for a while.
No big deal.
IIRC my PM privledges were also under restriction, but that has been remedied.

What do you mean by a scrolling sig.?

:damnit1: I can never get it to work in a post!!! a PM, but not a post:mad:

You can have text scroll across the screen, you can do it to your sig too but its rather anoying. :p:

Ah, I see. Philip, you're a mod. on top of your game.):h