Looking to buy a TH, FW the bad thing is that it weighs 18,000#'s fully loaded1:eek: I come from a long line of Chevy owners, but books say the most they'll tow is 16,000. Any one know what, shy of a Peterbuilt, will pull my new rig?
Thanks for the input!!!

4500 is your answer(duramax power)

You can go to the 4500 series. Any of our trucks, including a 2500 HD, will pull it, but it won't be within the limits posted by GM. Max GCWR is 22000 lbs...that's truck, trailer and passengers. You'll be at close to 25-26000 GCWR with a 2500HD or 3500, and the GCWR is 26000 lbs on a 4500. They are big, but would be the safest way to pull a trailer that big. By the way, what kind of toyhauler are you looking at?

If you read the fine print on the GCWR for the 2500/3500 trucks you will see that it is what the truck can pull and expect to maintain "normal" highway speeds. It is NOT the holy grail. I pull 20,000 regularly with my 2500. No issues. I have my pickup registered to 26,000 GCW. There is no limit as long as the trailer is properly equipted.

I've said this in other threads. There are two parts to pulling heavy. First is getting the load moving and there is little difference here between the 2500/3500 and the 4500. If you got a gear low enough, you can pull it. The other half is stopping the load. For this you need enough total braking power. This is the combined braking power of the power unit AND the trailer. On all highway rated axels, the braking power is at least equivelent to the weight rating of the axle. Add up all your axles, if it is more than the GCW, you will be fine.

Now the disclaimer. Pulling a big trailer is not for everyone. Be it a big rig or a pickup, you must have the skills to operate the combined vehicle safely. IF you screw up, bad things can happen in a big way. The bigger the load, the bigger your responsability. Being in a 4500 does NOTHING to enhance safety. It only means you can put more load on its back, not behind it.

Fingers, I COMPLETELY disagree with your post. I agree that the 2500 HD and 3500 will get the load moving without much problem, but the when you state that the 4500 is not "safer" you are dead wrong. The braking system alone dwarfs the 2500/3500 system, and the suspension is not even close. Now, I also agree that it takes a skilled driver to pull a load that big, but having the proper equipment that is rated for a trailer that big is a huge factor in safety...if GM thought that the 2500/3500 could safely pull a trailer that large then they would have rated it for that. I understand there is a safety margin built into the posted specs, but it makes a lot more sence to have too much reserve than not enough.

Fingers, I COMPLETELY disagree with your post. I agree that the 2500 HD and 3500 will get the load moving without much problem, but the when you state that the 4500 is not "safer" you are dead wrong. The braking system alone dwarfs the 2500/3500 system, and the suspension is not even close. Now, I also agree that it takes a skilled driver to pull a load that big, but having the proper equipment that is rated for a trailer that big is a huge factor in safety...if GM thought that the 2500/3500 could safely pull a trailer that large then they would have rated it for that. I understand there is a safety margin built into the posted specs, but it makes a lot more sence to have too much reserve than not enough.
GM makes no claim about safety. For any size trailer.

What part of the suspension are you lacking in a 2500/3500? The load is not on their back, it is behind them.

It is the total braking power of the combination, not just the truck!

If I am wrong, you better close your eyes going down the road. Most of those short haulers with GN flatbeds are running 20,000 plus trailers.

people have called me a liar but wev put close to 25,000lbs behind my '94 2500, way over what the sticker says but with trailer brakes and a good driver it can be done fairly easy, but it would be best to atleast have a 3500,that big a load squats a 2500 pretty good, and if ur goin for bein legal the laws here say you are allowed some many lbs per every square inch of your tires, so a dually helps out there

Fingers, it's people like you who think that just because your truck will do it that it's right...well you're wrong...just wait till you have an accident and they find that your truck and trailer combo are way over GCWR. You will be denied insurance coverage, will have your a$$ sued off and face possible legal ramifications at the least. You don't believe me? It happened in California with a person trailering a travel trailer that was too heavy for the tow vehicle, it lost control, hit a car in the opposite lane, killed all the occupants in that car and injured every member in his family. CHP found that the trailer, even with weight distribution and sway control, was far too heavy for the tow vehicle, based on the MFGRs posted GCWR, and found the man to be at fault. The family of the deceased sued him, he was fined and jailed, and his insurance company denied his claims due those facts! The 2500/3500 series are listed at 22000 GCWR for a reason, that is what they are designed to carry...SAFELY. The 4500, when properly equipped is rated at 26000 GCWR. It IS for SAFTEY, Fingers, not for the hell of it that they post these ratings. Unfortunately, as these trucks get more and more power, people will think that they can pull semi trailers with their LIGHT DUTY trucks. Again, two wrongs don't make a right.

I pull over the "sticker" with both of my trailers, the Fiver TH and the GN, That said yes the 2500HD pulled and stopped fine but I did up grade to a 3500 Dooley because of the 23,500 rating. As to the insurance issue- they insure the combo and know the weight of both as they asked. That said someone can sue you for anything if they want and any judge can say pay up weather you are in spec or out, the WI dot just states that you must be plated to carry the load you are hauling, IE 26k GCW then 10k on truck and 20k on trailer and as far as they care you are good. Now before the flames understand anyone one can pull a trailer but "skill" plays a very large role in what you haul, I have seen a s10 blazer pulling a 4 place snow trailer @ 70 mph in the snow lose it and when I stopped to help and then asked him where was the fire, he said it's 4x4 so I thought I was fine, BTW total trailer weight was 2976- 500 under his tow rating. JM2C you need to be comfortable with your combination and check with your local DOT as to any special license class as some states have special rules.

Without bashing you Bartman, it just isn't that way man, settle down.

I've done my homework with the DOT both fed and state(s). Licenced and registered the vehicle with full disclosure. Have had my CDL for quite some time now. Passed through weigh stations without a hitch. I already knew a lot about towin heavy from pulling my equipment around for my construction buisiness. Some of that came when I got my CDL. I was amazed at the general lack of knowledge about towing by the general public.

The limiting factor on the pickup trucks is the amount of tongue weight. You can always get more brakes on the trailer, but there is only so much weight you can/should put on the tow vehicle axles. Max on the 2500 is about 4,000 to keep under the posted rear axle rating.(actually the limit posted by GM is limited by the tire rating, not the axle. The axle is rated at much more) At 15% of the trailer weight, the trailer can gross about 26,000.

Now where is that thread from six months ago where we hashed this out? ):h

Bartman/Fingers, it does my heart good to see you guys hashing out trailering issues, especially when towing this heavy! :ro) I always learn something when you guys engage in these discussions, regretably they often can turn a little nasty. :(

On a positive note, it is guys like you that will take the time to educate yourselves on what/how/why you should/can tow with a particular vehicle. I would rather have either of you on the road towing to max GCWR or above than the idiot who rents a U-Haul trailer with his Ford Explorer, overloads both, then plows down the road at 80mph. ;) I saw that exact combination on its back on I-95 southbound several weeks back. The trailer broke the rear wheels from the pavement and away they went. Fortunately no fatalities, just lots of "tea-stains" in the ole shorts! :rolleyes:

That being said, Purelyart there have been numerous posts on the forum regarding towing, limitations, equipment, etc., with these trucks. Grab you a cold one and do a search. Each of us brings his/her own level of towing expertise to the table, we have no idea what yours is. Best advice is always err on the side of safety, both yours and ours! I tow heavy and wouldn't hesitate to strap 18k behind my truck, do it all the time, but that doesn't mean everyone should.

This discussion is bringing in good intel for your consideration. JJ :)

not tryin to start nothin but lets say your towing the same load with a kodiak and everything is legal, u lose control of that thing and hit a car head on the people in that car are not gonna be in very good shape, the law may not be on u but ur still gonna have to live with knowin even though it was an accident u killed someone. so like some of u have said its all in the driver

Chevy, no one wants to go to sleep at night with that on their conscious. Towing heavy brings an added dimension to driving. Good point! JJ :)

Chevy 9465

Ability to control the "load" is the reason to go to a heavier truck. When the "tail" outweigh the dog by a factor of 3 (say 7K truck and 21K trailer), then the possibility of "losing control" is increased exponentially based on the certain laws of physics that cannot be litigated in court, or re-written to accomodate overzealous operators.

Personal safety is just that...personal. Responsible operators take safety to the next level and consider the other drivers on the road, even the less than perfect ones that cut your braking distance in 1/2 to take an the off ramp, or merge into traffic at 34MPH without signalling. Running them over is not the answer, and having too much weight to compensate for their mistakes is never an excuse.

If you're going to tow heavy, get training, learn and practice the Smith System, and get on the scales to be sure that you are operating "responsibly". If you do not agree with the traffic or DOT regulations, research the causes of traffic fatalities that has caused these regulations to be set at what they are and perhaps it will all make sense to you. Weight ratings are there for many reasons, but your inconveniences are not part of them. Some do have to do with state revenue, but they have to fund the 'clean-ups' and enforcement efforts somehow, and those costs are all related to how "responsible" we, the users of the roads they monitor and mainatain, behave while operating our vehicles on their roadways.

Consicence is also a "personal" thing. Everyone has one, but sensitivities to traffic related fatalities can vary widely. Many folks (especially the young, inexperienced drivers) do not know enough to think through their actions and do not consider the consequences of their actions. Experienced operators should (but do not always) have the common sense to think of those things before placing their vehicles in motion. If it is risky, choose a route that provides the greatest margin of safety, or pick a time when traffic and weather is optimum (the occasional approach). If those conditions cannot be controlled, then it is time to look for a tow vehicle that is capable of compensating for these conditions (the professional approach).

Maybe one these is better suited for the job... nice,huh?:)
www.neelycoble.com (http://www.neelycoble.com/)

Bottom line:

18,000 is fine on a 2500 if proplerly equiped. If you don't know what properly equiped is, you shouldn't pull it. A 3500 gives you more options on weight distribution, allowing more tongue weight.

I am not sure what everyone thinks happens in an abrupt manuver when towing, but the weight of the power head has little to do with the response. Again, properly equiped.

FYI, Fingers has spent a lot of time around nuclear reactors.

Sometimes, it's the neutrons talkin' http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/hihi.gif

Odd time for you to come out of the woodwork Matt. :)

Fingers,

Perhaps its best to let it go, and just move on. The 4500/5500 can be spec'd at the commercial dealer to suit your particular application, within limits. GM was careful to keep the GCWR below 26K because most commercial users of these trucks do not want to hire or pay for drivers with CDLs. Its an economic issue with the customer that attracts them to these trucks.

RV'ers and Toy-haulers are a different breed, but face the same DOT restrictions. 26K and 33K are the limitations by which GM and truck owners must abide by. Since we have CDLs, this was not an issue with us, and we selected our trailer before ordering a tow vehicle. When we spec'd our 2003 5500, we selected the heaviest duty components and the body application to suit those needs, not spending extra on more truck than needed, nor on after-market components. Should our tastes or needs change, requiring a larger tow vehicle, we will spec a new truck to suit that as well.

I've wore out 3 or more Light Trucks towing, getting less than 3-years out of each before they started to nickle and diming us to death. After a while, it became an economic issue of having to replace each vehicle as soon as the warranties expired, so we knew that a commercial chassis would make more sense, since it would last much longer, for roughly the same initial price.

Even if our C3500 Dually (454 HO) could have pulled a heavier load (due only to the difference in weights between the two vehicles), broken motor-mounts, scorched wheel bearings, new brakes every 18-20 months, new drive tires every-year or so, was running up quite an expense, in addition to the loss of revenue every month that the truck spent in the shop (we towed an 8,200 lbs trailer between 55k and 75K miles/year). In the 120K miles towed with the C5500, none of these problems have come up, which translates into reduced expenses, and more paid miles driven in any given month. Simple economics, so I'll live within the 26K and get better gas mileage in the process.

I'm not as hurried as most folks here, and don't care for tractor pulls, so I don't need to add mods to the engine, exhausts, etc. And mud-crawling or off-roading is too expensive for my budget, so I'm not as impressed by big tires or suspension lifts as many others, therefore I don't need to sacrifice utility to turn my truck into a big expensive toy. I need it to do one simple job safely and economically, and could not care less about bragging rights. It won't win at car shows or uphill races, but then again, I enter different contests than you do. In my competition, you arrive safely and don't agravate other drivers in the process, and make a few bucks in the process.

You bring up an excellent point RF; the heavy dutyness of the smaller pickups.

Though the 2500HD and 3500 are well built compaired to thier lesser siblings. They are far from having the durability of the true over the highway rigs. There are light, medium, and heavy duty vehicles in every range. When you get to the 4500 and higher series, you get the chance to pick and choose components and GM turns more into a body builder than a whole truck supplier. Rockwell axles, Roadranger trannys and Cat engines become options that, if you drive your truck for a living, you want and need. Why? They don't usually have higher capacities or bleeding edge tech. They last darn near forever. Our smaller truck just can't hang with em when it comes to service life.

One of the first big trucks I owned was an International s1850 dump retired from state service. That truck is what I would call a medium duty heavy truck. At 100,000 miles, it was tired, but serviceable. I put another 30,000 on it before I moved on. The next owner blew it up in one season. My last dump was a Brigadere with roadranger, L10 cummins and Eaton axles. This SOB just will not wear out. 200,000 and still a happy camper mechanically. The body is another issue. :)

If I were making a living pulling as many miles as you RF, I wouldn't be considering the Dmax/Allison. For the weekend people pulling < 10,000 miles a year. The 2500/3500s work out fine, properly equiped.

Just my 02 cents

I would pull it.