Hello all

Does our trucks have this black box recorder now.. Your truck can put you in jail if it doeshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Sensing Diagnostic Modules, or SDMs) exist, or have any idea that the devices are keeping track of their driving behavior.

Cnn had a report that the black box had data that this driver was going 90 and hit some one.. The court got a order to read this black box and the rest was hellhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

From steve
FleetEdited by: smartfix

yes all GM have them they are wired into the air bags , if they deployed a snap shot is taken of certain sensors. scary is't it

hello all

So now your truck becomes the local judge.. This is unreal

So now it can press charges in a court of Law

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

From steve

Yeah they have them word is that in texas they include in cab voice recorders. most of the time all they get out of them is "hey hold my beer and watch this"


Actually they do exist and can be used against you in court or in the service bay. if your motor blows they can tell you were in third gear in the middle of a full throttle run after doing a burner. really sucks

Yeah they have them word is that in texas they include in cab voice recorders. most of the time all they get out of them is "hey hold my beer and watch this"


Actually they do exist and can be used against you in court or in the service bay. if your motor blows they can tell you were in third gear in the middle of a full throttle run after doing a burner. really sucks





Isn't that spying or an invasion of privacy,


Where is Johnny Cochran when ya need him ???


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Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

My previous truck, 2002 Sierra Denali had the last 15 (I think) days history in the DIC. You could see max speed, miles, etc. I figure that is just a nibble of the data it's actually recording.


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NOT ONLY CAN THEY TELL SPEED, BUT DIRECTION OF TRAVEL, ATITUDE OF VEHICLE(RIGHT SIDE UP, ON ROOF , ON SIDE, HOW MANY TIMES IT ROLLED) AND WITH SENSORS IN THE SEAT CAN TELL HOW MANY OCCUPANTS WERE IN THE VEHICLE AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE USING SEATBELTS. THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS ALREADY BEEN TESTED IN PD CARS IN TEXAS AND FORD IS ALREADY PLACING THE EQUIPMENT IN '04 MODEL VEHICLES. FOR A SMALL FEE, THE SYSTEM CAN BE MONITORED MUCH LIKE ONSTAR. TECHNOLOGY, AINT IT GREAT!Edited by: FILO

So how long is it until GM is in charge of sending you the speeding ticket?

It's a clear case of the law makers running out of things to do. Maybe we don't need as many? Businesses downsize all the time to eliminate old, useless jobs... What a unique concepthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Edited by: JohnnyO

The next thing you know the pressure sensors in the seat will know when you fart and tell you when you are getting a little over weight.

hello all

If this black box can record this kind of info.. What happens when you race at the track ..Now GM can pull from the unit your top speed and use this to voild more stuff

From steve

GM ishttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

I wonder if there is a way to disconnect this thing?

Cool, wonder if it keeps track of how many times you fart? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Cool, wonder if it keeps track of how many times you fart? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





If it does, my counter has already rolled back to 0 a couple of times!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I read an artical in the news that it has been used in court, and that GM installed these devices to only improve the saftey of the air bag. Also from what I gathered from the artical, it was used in an fatal accident. From my point of view, we can thank all of the Lawmakers, and Lawers for being our Big Brothers.

Eh, anyone thinking of installing a Durmax/Allison in a '75 Chevy/GMC yet?

A case is going to be heard right here in Scottsdale AZ. And they are going to use the data they extracted from someones GM Truck Edited by: easymon4u

Well I think this is one we can blame the Lawyers for. The technology in question was developed to protect GM in liability lawsuits. It takes the before mentioned "snap shot" of certain vehicle parameters in order to prove that the safety features worked as advertised, and document the vehicle's operation at the time.


Any other uses can be blamed on the "Gubment!"

Well I have several ways to solve this B.S.

1. Put an 8 guage magnum shell inside of a pipe and cap it. Remove the primer and put a rocket igniter in the hole. Tie it into the airbags. Point the whole thing at the computer. Lets see the court read that.

Tie a stun gun into the airbags and place it into the computer. The voltage will wipe out the chips.

This issue will eventually wind up with the US Supreme Court. The problem is one of personal property and rights to privacy. Dealers pull the info to determine warranty issues, prosecutors/police pull the info to determine fault and liability, insurance companies want the info so they can jack your rates. The problem is this is personal property and cannot be siezed, used or diseminated in any way without a search warrant. This problem has just started and will continue to snowball for sometime.

Peanuts brother is in the house.

"Here... hold my beer and watch this"

LOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

The more of this crap they install the less it makes me ever want to buy a new car.

I believe this sort of info. has been extracted from rigs for some time now whenever there's a fatal accident. At least around here. The insurance system that currently exists penalizes the good guy and rewards the liars and cheats. If this is one way of evening that out a bit, I'm not so sure I'm against it if used to keep someone honest in their testimony at a fatal accident trial. If your "personal property" becomes involved in a fatality, I think you have already given up some rights - up here, anyway.


It's a little scary with OnStar in the system though. Imagine being targeted because a remote scan of your vehicle revealed excessive speeds. Not that it's likely but these are not good times for the paranoid delusional folks out there! When in doubt, keep the stun gun handy. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

Don't you guys have the EFO? Extreme Fart Option?


My truck has it, I guess it only comes with the leather seat option....everytime I have a big fart, the seat warmers come on and dry everything up! LOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Don't you guys have the EFO? Extreme Fart Option?


My truck has it, I guess it only comes with the leather seat option....everytime I have a big fart, the seat warmers come on and dry everything up! LOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Maybe that explains why my seat heater comes on by itself, dealer still hasn't been able to figure it out.

If this is one way of evening that out a bit, I'm not so sure I'm against it if used to keep someone honest in their testimony at a fatal accident trial. If your "personal property" becomes involved in a fatality, I think you have already given up some rights - up here, anyway.





I had a well thought out, precise and valid response to this, but I don't want to turn this into a huge debate. In the interest of keeping this board about trucks, their tricks and ticks, I concede.

I just saw a show on the History Channel last night about auto crash tests and accident investigations. California Highway Patrol officer in the MAIT (multidiscipline accident investigation team) had a "black box" (sure looked like a PCM to me) hooked up to a reader and a computer. Screen displayed speed, throttle position and "brake switch" (must have been brakelight relay) position for some set stretch of time.

Although this is an old thread, I happened upon the following link:
<DIV class=storyline>Driver gets 18 months in jail for speeding that killed man (http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=6a58a759-3fb5-4862-bbc0-39238d048874)</DIV>
<DIV class=storysub>Black box crucial. Recorder showed no attempt to brake. (http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=6a58a759-3fb5-4862-bbc0-39238d048874)</DIV>

wish I had a black box on my ex old lady....that would've saved me A LOT of problems

You on star guys better watch out I heard there can shut off your trucks if you arnt up to emission standards

You on star guys better watch out I heard there can shut off your trucks if you arnt up to emission standards


Are you talking about me or my truck? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Does the "base" package have these features too? I have the "base" package, no onstar, no power windows or locks, no nothing, but an am/fm radio... I am a police officer and I still don't really agree with it, what happened to investigations? that's part of my job right? I don't need or want a computer to tell me what someone did, period.


I could be pulling a trailer up a hill in third gear with a lot of throttle to keep it going and the dealership could look at that and say I was hotrodding it and void my warranty, it just ain't right.


OK, after thinking about, it would be good for accident investigations... in this scenario and purpose: when the airbag(s) deploy, the computer locks the conditions at the time of deployment, because that could possibly answer a lot of unsolved or unknown questions regarding circumstances and facts not otherwise known.


But as far as monitoring everything I do with my truck, I don't think so...


Dan

Guys, these are not new.


The SDMs have been in GM vehicles for many years. The newer models are able to record more information than older models, however.

Guys, these are not new.


The SDMs have been in GM vehicles for many years. The newer models are able to record more information than older models, however.

Hello all

The bottom line here the PD can get all your info from the black box. I spoke with my Friend he works for the local PD dept and they get all the info ASAP. New or older truck Big Brother got you

From steve
Fleet Depthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I disabled OnStar and even pulled the mic out just to make sure. I like the stun gun idea, but knowing my luck, I'd be holding onto something metal when it went off. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

Welcome to my world!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Every single day I show up in my office they know everything...the way switches are, the speed of the aircraft(running late...hammer down), the sink rate,.....EVERYTHING WE DO AND EVERYTHING WE SAY!


Now you are going to tell me that it is a commercial jet with 175 people on board, but this is my point...how many times a year do commercial aircraft have problems? As I am writting this post...how many auto accidents have happened? It was the 'Black Box' that gave my industry knowledge and improved the over all safty. Please do not take this a bitching....it is very much a part of my job(bitchinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Block Boxs). To tell you the truth I forget they are even there.


Now this my point.....if my family is ever run down by some careless or reckless driver I would want the law to work.....and if it means putting that person in jail so be it. I personally would not look at this as big brother watching.....but if you kill someone...then big brother should take a look....TO STOP IT FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.


So, think of this next time your onboard a commercial jet and also when your family is on the road.


Happy Truckinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

prosecutors/police pull the info to determine fault and liability,


Prosecutors and police do not determine fault or liability. Judges and civil lawyers do. My job is simply to determine if a violation of law occurred, and if so, take enforcement action.


If you were doing something wrong creating an accident that caused death or serious bodily harm, I can prove it without the little black box. Keep in mind that I can establish plenty of Probable Cause to obtain a search warrant for the little black box (if it exists-haven't seen anything on it yet) based on the physical evidence at the scene alone (ie. skid marks, crumple factors, witnesses, etc).


BOTTOM LINE: If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, this black box could very well be your vindication vs. conviction.


I personally do not care what they put in my truck as long as it does not fry my mods.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

wish I had a black box on my ex old lady....that would've saved me A LOT of problems


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifEdited by: flhrciblueice

prosecutors/police pull the info to determine fault and liability,


Prosecutors and police <font size="3">do not</font> determine fault or liability. Judges and civil lawyers do. My job is simply to determine if a violation of law occurred, and if so, take enforcement action.


If you were doing something wrong creating an accident that caused death or serious bodily harm, I can prove it without the little black box. Keep in mind that I can establish plenty of Probable Cause to obtain a search warrant for the little black box (if it exists-haven't seen anything on it yet) based on the physical evidence at the scene alone (ie. skid marks, crumple factors, witnesses, etc).


BOTTOM LINE: If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, this black box could very well be your vindication vs. conviction.


I personally do not care what they put in my truck as long as it does not fry my mods.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif




Hello

I dont want to start a heated Debate on this unless people like to take it privite. There is a very fine line on this. There is a case pending about the black box. DID gm tell you about this. Must be in the paper work they gave you. Have a nice day all

From Steve
Fleet OwnerEdited by: smartfix

smartfix,


I agree we should know this before we buy $47,000 truck. Is this system a part of On-Star? Do Fords or Dodges come with this little "Black Box"?


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[/QUOTE]

Hello

I dont want to start a heated Debate on this unless people like to take it privite. There is a very fine line on this. There is a case pending about the black box. DID gm tell you about this. Must be in the paper work they gave you. Have a nice day all

From Steve
Fleet Owner[/QUOTE]


I am failing to see your point. Did GM tell you that you had oxygen sensors or low fuel sensors or water in fuel sensors or fuses or......


Or are you saying that because they did not tell you had the box, that you do not consider it to be your personal property and thus subject to seizure for absolutely no reason at all, anytime?


Please clarify the point you are trying to make.


Life is to short to take anything personal so I would settle for a little debate. Have no fear of any heat (my skin is very dense). We are all entitled to my opinionhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif.


Also from Steve-I own nothing, my wife owns everything

Or how about your cell phone? Credit card? Hotel door key? Not to mention the computer your on right now! They can also be used against you. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif


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Or how about your cell phone? Credit card? Hotel door key? Not to mention the computer your on right now! They can also be used against you. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif


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Goes back to my bottom line. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about being used against you. Besides, I don't have the time to watch the law abiding citizens; just time for the criminals.

As the old star, Baretta, is finding out........


IF YOU GONNA DO THE CRIME, YOU BETTER BE WILLING TO DO THE TIME!!!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I liked that show too!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


Blake

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif I believe what we are talking about here are Event Data Recorders (EDR). I understand the ones used in ALL GM products record a specific set of data such as speed, throrttle position, brake position, etc (have never been able to find out EXACTLY what the GM recorders record) during the last five seconds prior to air bag deployment. The EDR is tied to the air bag system therefore I am told the data can't be downloaded by the dealer unless the air bags have been deployed . Even if the dealer could pull the data without air bag deployment it would only be the last five seconds nothing older. The EDR is not tied to the On Star system as non On Star vehicles have EDRs installed. Here are a couple links.


http://mct.truckmoxie.com/visit.asp?http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/


http://mct.truckmoxie.com/visit.asp?http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/


I have read conflicting information concerning the removal of the EDRs. One fellow swears he had the On Star and EDR removed from his GM truck and has them sitting on his desk. Others say since the EDR is tied to the air bag system it can't be removed without deactivating the air bags.


My take on the EDR. GM says they use the data to make vehicles safer. That may be true but I contend their primary purpose is to protect them selves from law suits. Also I believe that if I own the vehicle I own EVERYTHING in and on the vehicle to include the data in the EDR. Therefore, if ANYONE downloads any information from the EDR WITHOUT my written permission they are stealing my PERSONAL information. Concerning the liberal court system we have in this country, it is true that a law enforcement agency can get a search warrent to get the data from your vehicle just like they can get a search warrant to come into your house and look in your computer.


So what is one to do?? I am still trying to find a way to remove the EDR from my truck without deactivating the air bag system. IF THE EDR IS REMOVED AND THE DATA DOES NOT EXIST IT CAN'T BE USED AGAINST YOU!!


I don't agree with HOOKEM who said "Goes back to my bottom line. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about being used against you. Besides, I don't have the time to watch the law abiding citizens; just time for the criminals." Lots of honest, law biding citizens are screwed by law enforceemnt agencies, liberal courts and lawyers everyday.


I don't have anything to hide, have not had a ticket in more years than most of your have been alive, spent 23 years flying fighters where everything you did was monitored (like No Wake) but I don't like the "Government" (by the way I work for the "Government")prying into to what I do. "Less Government is better Government."


I believe one of the real tech folks could do us a big favor by developing a set of detailed instructions on "How Top Remove the EDR in GM Pickups " without deactivating the airbag system. Need to get more facts concerning the GM EDR system. To me EDRs are the epitomy of "Big Brother"!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif



<

I'm with Shark Bait on this one...


Last time I read anything about this 'data', there was a heated debate about who owns it? I seem to recall a courtroom decision (not a Supreme Court, unfortunately) that the data belongs to the owner of the vehicle. That left open another question, who actually owns your vehicle? No question if you have clear title to it, but if you took advantage of the GMAC 0% financing, then THEY own it until payoff AND they own the data recorded!


So, if I hold clear title to my truck, then that's MY data they're fooling with and I get to decide who sees it - and who doesn't.

QUOTE From Hookem

I don't agree with HOOKEM who said "Goes back to my bottom line. If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about being used against you. Besides, I don't have the time to watch the law abiding citizens; just time for the criminals." Lots of honest, law biding citizens are screwed by law enforceemnt agencies, liberal courts and lawyers everyday.

I don't Agree With hookem at all. There are lots of Law Biding people that some how get the short end of the stick.
The Court system is a Joke. The only people that win is the lawyers

From steve
Fleet Owner

No doubt there are a lot of law abiding citizen's screwed by the CIVIL COURTS because those courts only have to prove a perponderance of the evidence (51%) that a person was at fault. In a criminal court, the prosecution has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt (98.9%).


Do not get me wrong on this issue, I believe that the CIVIL court system is extremely corrupt and agree that the only winner is the lawyers. GM knows this from past experience and that is probably why they have taken steps to protect themselves ie. the little black box, etc. They get screwed in court and we pay $40k+ for a truck instead of $30k.


However, the criminal court system here in the United States of America (no matter how imperfect it is) is the absolute best in the world, hands down. We are all given the right to have our day in court, and to confront any and all witnesses against us. The prosecution has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt or the accused walks free, never to be tried for the same crime again.


A civilized society must be governed with rules and someone has to enforce the rules that the society has come up with. I swore an oath to serve and protect all citizens, and in order to do this I must enforce the laws that our country, the State of Nevada, and the City of Elko have made via the elected officials of the people. Even if I personally disagree with certain laws.


This will be my last post on this thread so that I can afford all of you the last word. Thanks for the debate!!!


Shakespeare may have been on to something when he said, "kill all the lawyers".


STEVE

I agree with hookem, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.


If a person is doing 85mph in a school zone and wipes out 3 kids and never even hits the brakes, a good investigator is going to be able to determine that anyways. The data recorded will merely serve to prove the speed, whether the brakes were applied, etc. It's not going to lie and say you were going 150mph or something. I think the accuracy of the info will go a long ways toward ensuring justice is served with more accuracy than before.


I'd like to see a day come when the adversarial criminal justice system is gone (where Johnny Cochran's charisma and spin methods are no longer effective) and forensics and technicians present factual data as to what occurred.


When I speed and get a ticket, I take full responsibility for it. They already have a number of accurate methods for determining our speed, this is just a direct reading method.

My Nephew had his non *On Star* truck inpounded by the State Patrol after he was in an Accident. They said they were reviewing the Black Box. It now looks like he is in a little bit of hot hot water.


I am not sure what they found out, but he has a court date coming up.


A Lady pulled out in front of him, she was driving a Pontiac Bontiville (Spelling?) He T-boned her, and nearly went through her car. This was in a 35 mph area. He was driving an 2004 Chevy 2500 CC, LB with an 8.1L/Allison.