It is getting cold here and I wanna make sure I am using the right stuff. Tonight I filled up with 8 gallons #1 and 16 gallons Roadmaster Premium. I also added 8 oz of Stanadyn All Seaon Performance. Is this okay? I asked the stealers shop and all they knew was that my truck was a diesel. :rolleyes: They did say to add a demulsifier. What the heck is that? :confused:

Ben

Do a search for additives and you will get more info than you need. I use Stanadyne as well. It seems to be a pretty respected additive in these parts. Use the blue label performance formula for winter.

I use Standyne Performance Formula. Good apparently for cold weather, aswell.

Fuel mixture I can't say anything about.

The reason I mixed was they did not sell any blended fuel. They said I could blend it myself. What are #1 and #2 fuels?
Ben

Does your local fuel stops have more choices for diesel. I have not heard of Premium Diesel fuel.
I am not sure what the temp ratings are for #1 and #2 but the #2 has anti gelling additive in it.
I run the Stanadyne every third tank full. If I lived up north in Fairbanks where the temps are 0 deg f or colder every winter I would use it every tank full.

The reason I mixed was they did not sell any blended fuel. They said I could blend it myself. What are #1 and #2 fuels?
BenYou can't find a station that sells winter fuel in Montana?

I use the Stanadyne sometimes and sometimes I use Shell DFA. They are both demulsifiers. There is a big debate over whether to use demulsifiers or emulsifiers. Do a search of this forum and then decide for yourself which one you want to use.

In these part's
#1 fuel is kerosene
#2 fuel is diesel or home heating oil

Diesel will start to gel up in very cold weather, guessing around -10f or so.
Kerosene has a lower cloud point so it is mixed by some with diesel to keep it from gelling. Some I know swear by this method and use it and it does work, but I personally just use a Stanadyne.
You can run kerosene in your truck but it is expensive and if you use a good winter additive like Stanadyne winter formula you don't need any or at least not as much. Depends just how cold it is where your at. Usually the Distrubtors will blend fuel for the expected temp in the area.
Also diesel will usually gell where it is thinned out like in your fuel filter when it is forced to pass through the pleats, so if your in very cold weather carry a spare fuel filter to change just in case.

Was about 0 deg F here last night and with the Stanadyne I had no problem's starting this morning.

If you read your owners manual I think it mentions something about running kerosene and Diesel mix in the winter.

Demulsifier will force the water out of the fuel by making it combine with other water droplets so your filter can catch them and have them collect in the bottom of your filter. That's why there's a Water In Fuel sensor and light to let you know to drain the filter if the water has built up.

Emulsifier's do the opposite they break the water down into tiny droplet's so it will not be caught by your filter and pass through and be burned up in the cylinder's.

GM recomends demulsifier's made by Stanadyne or Racor so that your filter will work as designed.

Hope I got all that right :)

Diesel Dragon

I recently switched to Power Service after lengthy research and discussions with our Nalco chemical engineer. (Lots of information as Nalco provides fuel treatment componets for the majority of the nations petroleum product refineries) Long story but I have since decided to go with the PS products which solubilizes water so that it becomes part of the fuel (Completely disolved) It's neither a demulsifier or emulsifier which brings water droplets to the tank/filter bottom or coats them so they can make it through the filters and go with the fuel.

Tommy,

So are you saying that solublizing fuel is different than emulsifing it? I would imgaine water that exists at a ppm level is ok versus a water droplet.

What is the Power Service product you are using?

Ron,

You are correct and thats the way it was explained to me. The water becomes completely disolved within the fuel and actually becomes part of the fuel. (No droplets, and no filter media face icing) This icing is often mistaken for gelling. In other words when the fine droplets freeze they can collect at the filter media face and cause plugging with ice droplets. Thats why several manufacturers use heated filters. If it was gelling, problems should also occur in the lines. A good rule of thumb is that if a filter change corrects the problem then it was probably icing.

Solubilizing the water also prevents droplets all together which is a good benefit to the fuel pump and injectors. I use only the PS Diesel Kleen because it contains no anti gelling additives and I live in the south. I am also told it contains a somewhat larger guantity of cleaner, inhibitors and lubricants verses the winter blends. It's not formulated to do as much for water as the winter blend (less solubilization) but I like the higher concentration of the other componets I can obtain by not needing a winter blend. I also feel that when choosing a good additive your location should have a lot to do with making a decision. If I was living up north I would switch to the winter blend during colder months. They (various additives) all are good and have their strong and weak areas so application is important.

Interesting to hear about the Power Service stuff. I was using the Diesel Kleen, but switched to Stanadyne. Can't say I have noticed a difference, either way. I wasn't checking my milage when using the Diesel Kleen.

Diesel Kleen (up here) is cheaper, and you get more volume (larger containers at Flying J's)

a bear

I would agree with your post except the part about fuel filters icing instead of gelling. If they did indeed ice up from water they would do it at any temp below 32 deg f. Yet most people who have problem's with gelling do it at a much lower temp than that. I haven't heard anybody having any real Gelling (icing) problem's until the temp drop's below 0 deg f.
If someone did indeed have a fuel filter with a lot of water that could freeze up and cause a problem the WIF sensor should go off to let you know there's that much water in there.
I think the fuel gell's in the filter before the hard line's or tank because that's where it's thinned out the most to pass through such a fine mesh in the filter, I think given enough time if the temp was cold enough the fuel line's and tank would indeed start to gell up also.
And tecnically I think they refer to fuel gelling as "Clouding"
I think that's when parts of the fuel (parafin I think it's called) actually start to gell up before all the fuel does. And that's what clog's up the filters. I hope I explained that correctly.:confused:

Just my understanding of how it work's

Diesel Dragon

well below freezing here in mn. the last few days, I use stanedyne every tank all year round and never had a problem. My truck sits outside all day at work, with temps at or below 20 below zero, its always started with no problems. stanedyne seems to work well for me.

Big Red D/A: I'm with you, run stanadyne p/f in every tank. Truck runs real good all the time. I think it lowers gelling point quite a bit too, something like 25 more degrees. I'm real pleased with it.

Diesel Dragon,
Normally water in fuel would have to be in the +100 PPM range to support fuel filter icing so I would consider this uncommon but is does happen. And you're right in your statement that it would occur at a much higher temp. 32 degrees or below. The cloud point of fuel or wax (paraffin) appearance temp happens at a much lower temp so you are correct with the additional information. However fuel filter icing is real.

Tommy,

I have seen diesel fuel with 75ppm water and higher--the latest ASTM 975 spec allows for 200ppm water--it use to be 500ppm.

But I would think the real issue with icing is free water--not entrained water. Am I wrong here.

Ben, I am sure all the diesel in Montana is blended. It comes from the refinery that way here in Northern Utah starting the middle of Oct. I have used Power Service exclusively for 59K miles. I have never found a drop of water in either filter when servicing. Later! Frank

If an addative is not handy, is it fine to run #1 in these trucks (blended with #2)? I have heard that if a station has both #1 and #2 pumps, the #2 may not be blended for winter. I've also heard the story that all #2 is arctic blended after a certain date. I'd rather not take the chance of gelling when traveling in these temps we have right now in MN.

What is the minimum temp that you can safely run #2 (arctic blended and straight #2)?

The station I went to said no blended fuel there. I would have to "blend" it myself. I go to that station because the only other station in town sells DIRTY fuel. Both are big truck stops too.

If for some reason your fuel did gell, what are you supposed to do? I have not a clue!!
Ben

If it completely stalls and won't start, you better look for a rollback and a heated shop. Never shut it off if you feel it's starting to gel. At least then some warm recirculated fuel is still moving around and might get you to the nearest truckstop for some addative.

You ever travel down the highway in the winter and see these semi trailers sititng on the shoulder with no tractor hooked up??? They most likely gelled up and are being towed to the local shop to thaw out for a while and a new set of filters.

My dad drives truck and he said you'll only gel once. After that you'll be making sure your fuel is good to low temps and won't be pusing the limit. i.e.....there's no heat in the cab when the engine stops and you learn your lesson real quick!

Ain't winter fun?

By adding the standyne p/f, what temps would that get you down to?
So running straight #1 is okay with our trucks?
Ben

The owners manual says to avoid the use of #1 fuel especially in warm weather.

My understanding of winter blends is that it is cut with kerosene which reduces
geling in low temperatures. It may be my imagination but my 6.5 seems to be down on power with winter blend but I don't notice a difference on the Dmax.

I think the Standyne bottle states that it will drop the gelling temperature by up to an additional 40 degrees. I checked a Power Server winter blend bottle - it says the fuel will be good down to -40F (if you use enough). I also have Primrose 409 - label says it will drop the gelling temperature by up to an additional 20-30 degrees.

So...if you're already using a winter blend...any of these additives will reduce gelling to a very low temperature. If you have pure summer fuel, they will still give you a pretty good margin of safety.

Here in MI you can tell when winter blend takes over, about early November, because I lose about a full MPG. Come late March, the MPG's come back up.

One trick I have read to fix gelling it to completely fill the filter with additive as way to get the engine to fire. However, you still have the lines and tank to worry about.

I have been running either Standadyne or PS since day one with no problems, no water ever found when changing filters, either.

Has anyone discussed with the additive vendors what happens to the emulsified or solubilized water in our high pressure injection systems? I would think it would get hot and vaporize (eek!). Has any vendor or anyone else
on this site have any info on the high pressure effects on water in the system? 20,000 lbs. psi is pretty high and could this be the reason the General is recomending demulsifyers? Just float'n this one out there....

John

PS, I run Stanadyne all the time between 10+ degrees f and 100+ degrees f
makes the beast run quiet....

In three years of being on duramax web sites no one has ever complained about the water trapped in the duramax filter, the complaint has always been the water separator in our filters cant be working because of the lack of water, which is quite true.

A most distructive force on our injector is the velocity at which the water strikes the injectors and removes the injector finish.

Another reason for using additive in our fuel is to stop bacterial growth which is a problem you dont want.

A test you may like to try is fill 1/2 a jar with diesel in january out side in cold then put the jar in a warm area for 3 months, you should see black spots growing on the glass sides, ( water, oxygen and diesel).

happend to me in 3 of my 5gal. fuel containers, the other 3 containers that had additive no problem.

drive safe.

letsgo,
What finish on the injectors are speaking of? I am curious of the materials and construction of the injectors and the interactions that water, particulate matter (including living matter) would have on the injectors.

Regards,

John

I recently switched to Power Service after lengthy research and discussions with our Nalco chemical engineer. (Lots of information as Nalco provides fuel treatment componets for the majority of the nations petroleum product refineries) Long story but I have since decided to go with the PS products which solubilizes water so that it becomes part of the fuel (Completely disolved) It's neither a demulsifier or emulsifier which brings water droplets to the tank/filter bottom or coats them so they can make it through the filters and go with the fuel.A-Bear, I used to use the Diesel Services product as well until I learned the considerable amount of alcohol found in it. I now use the Stanadyne Performance additive here in Maine.

Alcohol in Power Service???

a Bear, say it isn't so!

The only additive I've ever used is PS, I thought it was alcohol free.

A-Bear, I used to use the Diesel Services product as well until I learned the considerable amount of alcohol found in it. I now use the Stanadyne Performance additive here in Maine.

I picking-up my first bottle of P/S Diesel Fuel Supplement. I'm going to give it a try instead of the normal Stanadyne P/F I have been using. Price is much better
:)

RE: Power Service products containing alcohol..........this had been debated here at length in the past. IIRC it was determined that it does not contain any alcohol. Somone even posted an e-mail on another thead from P/S stating it didn't. Also to support this the Wally Mart that I am buying from just happened to have new and old bottles on the shelf. The old bottles said nothing about alcohol content. The new bottle says "Does not contain alcohol".

Rob

There isn't any alcohol in todays PS products. Not sure if there was any in the earlier days but like Rob says the label clearly says no alcohol. :)

Go to power service's website. The specs for the silver (summer) and white (year-round) additives clearly state that NO alcohol is used in these products.

Isnt Stanadyne the only additive GM will reccomend though?

I've tried them all with five different diesels over the last eight years and standyne or amsoil additives work the best by far for me. Power service is also very good.