Just wondering if anyone knew if GM was figuring out the injector problems. I've seen a guy on here that was "hired" by GM to test injectors and I was wondering if they've gotten anywhere on manufacturing an injector that will hold up? If not, do y'all think we're screwed once we pass 200,000 miles or 7 years, or do you think they'll figure this injector problem out? Thanks!

That would depend on how many injectors you go through as to how screwed you may be I guess...

I am fighting GM for the second set at 189 thousand miles. Do not hold your breath Gm does not care about the customers that have purchased Duramaxes from them. All they want to do is stick you with a 40 thousand dollar truck and when you do have a problem, the answer the stealership says is "You should trade it in, its due anyway". so do I look like a complete fool for that kina treatment? I bought a diesel for the loooong life. Now I get to flip the bill for the injectors cause they do not fall in the "Special policy" BULL $hit I say the hell with GM. Its to bad that all the people like me couldnt get together and have a class action suit for 1) injectors 2) pump rub 3) the loss of time at work for the GM "mistakes" Don

I am fighting GM for the second set at 189 thousand miles. Do not hold your breath Gm does not care about the customers that have purchased Duramaxes from them. All they want to do is stick you with a 40 thousand dollar truck and when you do have a problem, the answer the stealership says is "You should trade it in, its due anyway". so do I look like a complete fool for that kina treatment? I bought a diesel for the loooong life. Now I get to flip the bill for the injectors cause they do not fall in the "Special policy" BULL $hit I say the hell with GM. Its to bad that all the people like me couldnt get together and have a class action suit for 1) injectors 2) pump rub 3) the loss of time at work for the GM "mistakes" Don
I totally agree with you, but I think it's not just GM...Go ask any one with a Ford 6.0. I myself think if they want me to trade in my truck they better give me top dollar,and my payments should be the same.

I wouldn't count on any improvements in these injectors. If the newer trucks have better injectors - then why would it be difficult to manufacture the LB7 injectors to the same specs? I said once before that because of injector problems, trucks with the LB7 engines will prove to be one of the most expensive trucks on the planet to maintain and I think time will prove that statement to be correct. If you have an LB7, keep some money set aside for injector repairs or replace with a newer model before the seven year / 200,000 mile warranty expires.

If you're looking at purchasing a truck with an LB7 engine - think twice before you buy into what can turn into an very expensive proposition.

After reading alot of posts on hear and on dieselstop, it kinda looks like a bosch issue, since they make injectors for ford also, CRD and the high pressure wit it and not to mention the poor quality of #2 fuel in the US....It is no wonder there is a high injector rate....but if they would only invest in higher class of materials to make them I think this problem would go away.....there are failures even on the nicktane setup but they are far and few between...I would think that bosch would step up to the plate on this....

Are there any quality aftermarket injectors to replace the factory ones after the warranty expires?
My time will expire before I hit the mileage limit.

I don't think it is just the injector that causes the issue. It is the overall design. After the LB7, GM/Izuzu changed the design. I have been lucky, I am right around 80k and I haven't had any big problems with my truck. Recently I have had smoking at idle once the temp hits 140-160 degrees. Never a running issue or any other symptom. I have a friend that works at a GM dealer, so I had him put a Tech2 on it to see how the injectors were doing. Turns out I have one out of spec, and a second getting close. Needless to say, a service appointment has been set up. No hassles which is nice...even though I have a tuner. Even with the hassle of getting injectors (and the downtime), I can't complain about my truck. It has been nothing but reliable for me.

I totally agree with you, but I think it's not just GM...Go ask any one with a Ford 6.0. I myself think if they want me to trade in my truck they better give me top dollar,and my payments should be the same.
I work with a couple guys who drive the FURD and they have issues and the company fights with them just as much as we read here about GM so it is a nationwide thing and not just a this company or that one. It seems to be the way of the future, bend over and let them drive I guess

I am so tired of hearing people bash GM. Just how long do you think your truck should last before it needs to be fixed?? I think that what you are really bitching about is the cost that it takes to fix it. Trucks don't last forever. If I were GM, I would put something like the following into the service manual: Change filters at 15K miles, change injectors at 100K miles.

The worst vehicle I ever bought new was a 1998 Mercedes E300 Turbo Diesel. Went through 4 sets of glow plugs, See below:

Low oil light illuminated although oil not low; Rear View mirror loose on windshield; Ash Tray Door sticks; Left rear window would not close; Ash Tray Door sticks 2nd Failure; Cigarette lighter inoperative; Glow Plug light illuminated; Front Passenger seat loose; Cup holder door will not close; Front Passenger seat belt in backwards; Front Rt headlight assembly has water in lens; Check coolant light illuminated; Left rear window would not close 2nd Failure; Glow Plug light illuminated 2nd Failure; Steering column moves when using turn signals; Cup-holder door intermittent 2nd Failure; Mass Air Flow Sensor Defective; Rear axle pinion seal leaking; Electronic Ignition System Failed; Lower control arm bushing cracked; Right Rear Window will not close; Engine knocks upon cold start; Check engine Glow Plugs 3rd Failure; Check engine light illuminated; AC/Heater Fan Inoperative; Glow Plug light illuminated 4th Failure.

The best vehicle was a 91 Chevy PU with 247K miles, but this one may be better. With only 90K miles, time will tell.

I am so tired of hearing people bash GM. Just how long do you think your truck should last before it needs to be fixed?? I think that what you are really bitching about is the cost that it takes to fix it. Trucks don't last forever. If I were GM, I would put something like the following into the service manual: Change filters at 15K miles, change injectors at 100K miles.

The worst vehicle I ever bought new was a 1998 Mercedes E300 Turbo Diesel. Went through 4 sets of glow plugs, See below:

Low oil light illuminated although oil not low; Rear View mirror loose on windshield; Ash Tray Door sticks; Left rear window would not close; Ash Tray Door sticks 2nd Failure; Cigarette lighter inoperative; Glow Plug light illuminated; Front Passenger seat loose; Cup holder door will not close; Front Passenger seat belt in backwards; Front Rt headlight assembly has water in lens; Check coolant light illuminated; Left rear window would not close 2nd Failure; Glow Plug light illuminated 2nd Failure; Steering column moves when using turn signals; Cup-holder door intermittent 2nd Failure; Mass Air Flow Sensor Defective; Rear axle pinion seal leaking; Electronic Ignition System Failed; Lower control arm bushing cracked; Right Rear Window will not close; Engine knocks upon cold start; Check engine Glow Plugs 3rd Failure; Check engine light illuminated; AC/Heater Fan Inoperative; Glow Plug light illuminated 4th Failure.

The best vehicle was a 91 Chevy PU with 247K miles, but this one may be better. With only 90K miles, time will tell.Not really bashing GM, I would own nothing but a GM truck. My last one, was a '93 never in the shop, traded it in at 160,000 ran and looked perfect.The only thing I replaced was a starter.

The hype from GM when the trucks were new was that they would go 200,000 miles without major repairs. It turns out that the injectors were defective from the factory and that a great many, if not most of these injectors, are going to fail well before 200,000. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect GM to cover them for 200,000 miles regardless of the age of the truck. Especially since this is a manufacturing defect!

This isn't an issue that will affect only a few trucks - it's going to occur on the majority of them and the repair is roughly $4,200.00 - now that's not a minor repair in my book. GM says their trucks are "Built like a rock" - Don't you think they should stand behind them?

The hype from GM when the trucks were new was that they would go 200,000 miles without major repairs. It turns out that the injectors were defective from the factory and that a great many, if not most of these injectors, are going to fail well before 200,000. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect GM to cover them for 200,000 miles regardless of the age of the truck. Especially since this is a manufacturing defect!

This isn't an issue that will affect only a few trucks - it's going to occur on the majority of them and the repair is roughly $4,200.00 - now that's not a minor repair in my book. GM says their trucks are "Built like a rock" - Don't you think they should stand behind them? I fully agree. I know myself, as much as I love this truck, will sell it before the 7 years runs out.

I just got my new 200,000 mile waranty on my 04 injectors. They know they are a real issue.

while they are an issue(and I've done one set myself) I don't believe it's as widedspread as we'd all like to believe. Sure GM is covering all LB7's for an additional time and yes they have changed the design, but normally if part or design is truly defective and pointable to real and constant cause and a very large percentage has that failure a recall will occur.

I'm guessing that many people are seeing large mileage with no injector issues as well as a large amount seeing injector issues.

I think you will only see recalls where safety is an issue. If injector problems weren't widespread, then I doubt it would we'd find the number of posts about them that we've seen over the last six years.

The hype from GM when the trucks were new was that they would go 200,000 miles without major repairs. It turns out that the injectors were defective from the factory and that a great many, if not most of these injectors, are going to fail well before 200,000. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect GM to cover them for 200,000 miles regardless of the age of the truck. Especially since this is a manufacturing defect!

This isn't an issue that will affect only a few trucks - it's going to occur on the majority of them and the repair is roughly $4,200.00 - now that's not a minor repair in my book. GM says their trucks are "Built like a rock" - Don't you think they should stand behind them?

I fully agree. I know myself, as much as I love this truck, will sell it before the 7 years runs out.

while they are an issue(and I've done one set myself) I don't believe it's as widedspread as we'd all like to believe. Sure GM is covering all LB7's for an additional time and yes they have changed the design, but normally if part or design is truly defective and pointable to real and constant cause and a very large percentage has that failure a recall will occur.

I'm guessing that many people are seeing large mileage with no injector issues as well as a large amount seeing injector issues.

I think you will only see recalls where safety is an issue. If injector problems weren't widespread, then I doubt it would we'd find the number of posts about them that we've seen over the last six years.
Here's a link that y'all need to check out http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167995
And remember that the guys with no problems aren't posting, you are only hearing about the ones who have trouble and not hte ones who don't, just food for thought. It looks to me that less than 50% are having problems. And recalls do happen on items that are not safety related.

If they were going to do a recall, then the new design would have to be almost bulletproof...

Everyone expects the trucks to last, it is human nature to be pissed about a 4200 buck expenditure after 7 year/200K. But just take a little time and think of it this way. Bought new, 40,000 bucks. drove off of lot, worth 35,000 bucks, so you already paid for a set of injectors if you were to trade and get another new one. Drive without problems for like 60,000 miles, and after 3-4 years, and now the truck is worth like 24,000 bucks. and the statement is "I'm selling after the 7 year/200K is out, well what are you replacing with? Most will be new.

Most are doing another depreciation hit that would have covered the set of injectors IF and a BIG IF they ever needed them again.

I love my truck, I have saved alot of money with this truck, even with the pump rub, it has been a fun ride, pulled whatever I wanted, and now at 180K I am looking at a waterpump I have been limping along for over a year, but I will change that also, and keep on going...................I saved the depreciation hit with buying used, so I will buy a the next set of injectors if I need to, and keep on driving some more.

Just my 2 cent woth, and I know it does not agree with everyone, so do not bash me to hard.

If the average passenger car will go 200,000 miles without a major repair - shouldn't one of these workhorse diesels? If GM says the injectors are defective - shouldn't they stand behind them?

If you visit the other diesel truck forums you'll find that there are no issues with the other makes that come close to the injector problems posted on this forum. Now they are the same kind of folks that we are. If all users only post problems, then where are the Ford and Dodge equivalents of our injector issues?

If the average passenger car will go 200,000 miles without a major repair - shouldn't one of these workhorse diesels? If GM says the injectors are defective - shouldn't they stand behind them?





Hence the 7 yr/200K special policy..........

Everyone expects the trucks to last, it is human nature to be pissed about a 4200 buck expenditure after 7 year/200K. But just take a little time and think of it this way. Bought new, 40,000 bucks. drove off of lot, worth 35,000 bucks, so you already paid for a set of injectors if you were to trade and get another new one. Drive without problems for like 60,000 miles, and after 3-4 years, and now the truck is worth like 24,000 bucks. and the statement is "I'm selling after the 7 year/200K is out, well what are you replacing with? Most will be new.

Most are doing another depreciation hit that would have covered the set of injectors IF and a BIG IF they ever needed them again.

I love my truck, I have saved alot of money with this truck, even with the pump rub, it has been a fun ride, pulled whatever I wanted, and now at 180K I am looking at a waterpump I have been limping along for over a year, but I will change that also, and keep on going...................I saved the depreciation hit with buying used, so I will buy a the next set of injectors if I need to, and keep on driving some more.

Just my 2 cent woth, and I know it does not agree with everyone, so do not bash me to hard.
I fully agree (had this all typed out before but took too long and lost it). Here's my 2 cents worth to add. How many have had discussions with guys running gassers about mileage, we all know that we average half again as much in mileage at least, double if we're towing, right. I use about 45 gallons a week and if we figure it at $3 per it comes to a little over $7000 per year. If a gassers getting 12 and I'm averaging 18 then I'd be spending another $3500 per year to run a gasser. The one and only time I needed injectors, at 157k, I was shown the bill, that I didn't have to pay, of $3600, I'm now at 187k. So in the 4 going on 5 years I've had the truck have I saved enough in fuel alone to afford the extra cost of maintaining a diesel? I'm planning on getting at least 600-700k out of my truck, 2-3 gassers worth, so maybe another 3 sets of injectors, but wait :D new improved injectors are coming, so maybe only one more set, which I'll install myself.
Just MHO but I feel that I'm well ahead $ wise driving this awesome truck that'll pull anything I want. I know, more than 2 cents.

well if you're searching on injectors only, than yes maybe GM is the worst in those regards. However the Ford 6.0 had it's fair share of problems, why do you think the relationship between Navistar and Ford are so strained with payments being held by Ford?

I don't know much about the cummins 5.9, but i do know alot of the chassis parts bolted to it, rear ends and transmissions were rather problematic.

If the average passenger car will go 200,000 miles without a major repair - shouldn't one of these workhorse diesels? If GM says the injectors are defective - shouldn't they stand behind them?

If you visit the other diesel truck forums you'll find that there are no issues with the other makes that come close to the injector problems posted on this forum. Now they are the same kind of folks that we are. If all users only post problems, then where are the Ford and Dodge equivalents of our injector issues?


When I purchased my truck in late 2001, GM was advertising that the Duramax engine would go 200K miles between major repairs (and they certainly did not mention a 7 year time limit). At $3K, the injectors qualify as a major repair. In my opinion, GM needs to stand behind this and establish a minimum mileage amount which is independent of time (Years). I have had my truck now for 6 years and it has less that 40K miles on it. These injectors seem to fail between 50-75K (on average). So, I will be just coming into the failure point when the 7 year portion of the warranty comes to an end.

Since GM has "Known" about this issue for at least 3 years now, I find it absolutely unacceptable that they have not solved the problem yet. We are talking 500,000 (?) trucks whose owners will be facing repeated $3K repair bills because GM can not get its act together. There should be a representative from GM on this website posting monthly updates on how they are solving the problem. That would be commitment to customer satisfaction. GM has obviously not evolved to a top tier auto company, they are still clinging to the same "customer care" ethics that got them into some of the problems they are experiencing today as a company.

Not one of us would have bought these trucks knowing this problem was present. 3 sets in only 91k miles for me is way out of line! They know they have a problem, they fixed it the next year and need to fix this or offer a life-time replacement of these injectors.

When I purchased my truck in late 2001, GM was advertising that the Duramax engine would go 200K miles between major repairs. At $3K, the injectors qualify as a major repair. In my opinion, GM needs to stand behind this and establish a minimum mileage amount which is independent of time (Years). I have had my truck now for 6 years and it has less that 40K miles on it. These injectors seem to fail between 50-75K (on average). So, I will be just coming into the failure point when the 7 year portion of the warranty comes to an end.

Since GM has "Known" about this issue for at least 3 years now, I find it absolutely unacceptable that they have not solved the problem yet. We are talking 500,000 (?) trucks whose owners will be facing repeated $3K repair bills because GM can not get its act together. There should be a representative from GM on this website posting monthly updates on how they are solving the problem. GM has obviously not evolved to a top tier auto company, they are still clinging to the same "customer care" ethics that got them into some of the problems they are experiencing today as a company.


I totally agree, It is disheartening to have a Diesel that cant make 50 K with out injectors going out. Hell its not a over the road truck ! They get 500k out of a engine before a major issue ! Its a Known GM flaw that they want to hush it away. I love my truck but its a weak spot for us ! It is easier for GM to give a extension as some have luckily made it to 200k before they went out , for them its , to bad so sorry for your luck. Isnt that the main reason you bought a diesel ! Longevity . Hell a gasser can go 200k with out engine issues.

Not one of us would have bought these trucks knowing this problem was present. 3 sets in only 91k miles for me is way out of line! They know they have a problem, they fixed it the next year and need to fix this or offer a life-time replacement of these injectors. actually I bought mine used, and was fully aware of the injector problem. But I researched all the potential problems with this truck.Thats when I found The Diesel Place, and I read about the injector special policy. Now if my buddy would of done any research he wouldn't have bought his POS Furd 6.0...

i would have to agree with tolliwacker 100%,and besides we all know gm and all the other manufacturer's have had thier problems,and gm makes alot of vehicals,they have made alot of mistakes but,this one really falls on botch,opp's bosch.

and yes,we are pretty much screwed,they probably will not invest too much r/d to the lb7 injector.they probably feel that about half are ready for the scrapyard,even though we don't feel that way.makes you wonder why they redesigned the injectors and heads?

First I think it's awesome that people are speaking up and about the truth. I was begining to think everyone on this forum was blindly in love with GM.

The bottom line is if people weren't being screwed over threads like this wouldn't exist, period. When my motor blew I had it towed to the shop they were replacing a set of injectors, when i dropped off my replacement motor they were replacing yet another set of injectors in a different truck. When I came to pickup my truck, yup you guessed, another set in a yet a different truck and I don't live in a large city.

I got stuck with a new set of injectors and the service manager told me to hold on to them cause it wouldn't be long before I needed them. These are the people that work on these motors for a living.

To me it's sad and speaks volumns about the LB7 injector issue. On top of that, GM's special policy covering only certain types of failures is just more icing on a cake made purely of BS.

I totally agree, It is disheartening to have a Diesel that cant make 50 K with out injectors going out. Hell its not a over the road truck ! They get 500k out of a engine before a major issue ! Its a Known GM flaw that they want to hush it away. I love my truck but its a weak spot for us ! It is easier for GM to give a extension as some have luckily made it to 200k before they went out , for them its , to bad so sorry for your luck. Isnt that the main reason you bought a diesel ! Longevity . Hell a gasser can go 200k with out engine issues.

EXTENSION? Bullsh!t
GM hides behind their deceiving Extended Injector Warantee to 200K/7 year, which is worded so they won't have to pay for sh!t. I had a failure of 2 injectors at 91K miles, and they tell me, "I'm sorry, but our bulletin doesn't cover YOUR type of injector failure.
How deceiving can you get. I'd bet 99% of the customers that got this Service Bulletin thought their problem injectors were covered for a longer time, and GM was stepping up to the plate for their design problems, and was really trying to compensate the customers who had to live with this problem. When it's time to collect, you're SOL. What a bunch of crap.
If anyone asks me about buying a LB7, I'll tell them definately don't, unless your willing to replace bad injectors at your cost, cause GM won't help.
I've talked to two different Customer Service Reps with zero help.
Don't know who else to talk to.
Here's my story:
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172724

i will take the lb7 over a 6.-:t
if gm had a cummins,about the only thing we would be complaining about is the noise.but we all know what surrounds the cummins,and i personally don't want that but,to each his own.

i will take the lb7 over a 6.-:t
if gm had a cummins,about the only thing we would be complaining about is the noise.but we all know what surrounds the cummins,and i personally don't want that but,to each his own.

My injector failure cost me 2500 to replace injectors in a blown motor and then 6k for a new motor.

I don't care if they wrap a cummins with toilet paper, I'm all over it!

I fully agree (had this all typed out before but took too long and lost it). Here's my 2 cents worth to add. How many have had discussions with guys running gassers about mileage, we all know that we average half again as much in mileage at least, double if we're towing, right. I use about 45 gallons a week and if we figure it at $3 per it comes to a little over $7000 per year. If a gassers getting 12 and I'm averaging 18 then I'd be spending another $3500 per year to run a gasser. The one and only time I needed injectors, at 157k, I was shown the bill, that I didn't have to pay, of $3600, I'm now at 187k. So in the 4 going on 5 years I've had the truck have I saved enough in fuel alone to afford the extra cost of maintaining a diesel? I'm planning on getting at least 600-700k out of my truck, 2-3 gassers worth, so maybe another 3 sets of injectors, but wait :D new improved injectors are coming, so maybe only one more set, which I'll install myself.
Just MHO but I feel that I'm well ahead $ wise driving this awesome truck that'll pull anything I want. I know, more than 2 cents.


Daniel, from my point of view, I bought this truck to save money. I stepped up from a gasser due to my constant towing and poor milage. If I am getting better milage with my duramax, but having to turn right around and reinvest that money into a set of injectors, than I am not really saving money, it is just moving from one expense to another. I unfortunately did not do enough research before I bought. Had I know the problems, I would have stepped up to another generation engine. This truck has proven to be one of the most costly vehicles that I have ever owned. even more than the 5 porsches that I have owned. I probably average $300-$400 per month in repairs just to keep it going on top of the other goodies that I buy for it. This usually comes in spurts, but it is money spent all the same. But oddly enough, I love my truck, so I keep feeding the beast my hard earned dollars. The real kicker comes from the fact that when we pay to replace the injectors, we are not guarented that we have fixed anything for any length of time. You could very easily have that same bill come up again the same year. There are several people on here that have had them go out within the 30k mile range. That is only about 8 months for me. I am personally saving up to do a cummings conversion for when mine go out. It will cost about the same as a new set of injectors and I know that another set would only cost around $200. Well, my rant is over, how are you doing by the way?

The way I calculate it - if you drive 12,000 miles a year, which is about average for most of us, you would get the following results.

Gasoline engine averaging 15 mpg and gasoline @ $3.00 per gallon
12000 / 15 = 800 gallons per year
800 * 3 = $2,400.00 per year fuel cost.

Diesel engine averaging 20 mpg and diesel @ $3.50 per gallon
12000 / 20 = 600 gallons per year
600 * 3.5 = $2,100.00 per year fuel cost.

Diesel was cheaper than gasoline at one time, but it's consistently been about 15% higher year round for several years now. That's true pretty much nationwide checking fuel prices on the internet.

Now the $300.00 difference per year is only $3,000.00 after 10 years. That hardly makes up for the initial additional cost of the Duramax engine plus injector problems if they occur out of the warranty period.

Unit, I don't feel those numbers take into account the power for pulling heavy loads, as a daily driver they would be true.

The post was about the economics of running diesel vs. gas; however, when compared against each other, there isn't that much difference between the two. The 6.0 liter gasoline engine does very well towing heavy loads when compared to the diesel. One such comparison can be found below.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout4mpg.html

Thank you very much for bringing this subject up!

The GRIN factor on a 6.0 is far less than the DMAX, so it makes up for a bunch for me......

The post was about the economics of running diesel vs. gas; however, when compared against each other, there isn't that much difference between the two. The 6.0 liter gasoline engine does very well towing heavy loads when compared to the diesel. One such comparison can be found below.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout4mpg.html

Thank you very much for bringing this subject up!

I still ain't buying it. Sorry

when you pull a few long grades,it will help you to realize the difference,let alone towwin heavy on the flats.that is why some of us have the diesel.i had a 454,it used a half tank to pull 10k trailer up 6% grade,for 30 minutes at 60 mph! gas does not compare.i think the only vehicals that are commonly going 200k without major repair are the jap cars,where ever they are made "1/2" are made here now.it's true diesel used to be cheaper than regular but, not any more,never going to be again.go back to the btu of gas vs diesel and you will be ok with the extra cost of the fuel,add that to the savings in mileage and most of you can do the math,and it work's out ok.then think about your gasser screaming at 4k,vs the 6.6 doing 2.5k.i know the diesel should go 200k or more without repairs but just run a search on the gm gasser engine,and you will find many unhappy customers,they almost all have piston slap,and oil consumption,and thats not even towwing for most.i will not own a gas gm,or ford,or dodge for that matter.you can bash ford all you want but, the 7.3 was a good engine,so is,was the 5.9.dmax is good too but, it has afew problems i will grant you that.and further more,if you had to replace more than two sets of injectors,i could see the point of doing the 5.9 conversion but,the noise!
the dmax is the most comfortable long range engine to tow with,with that said,i'm jumpin off the soap box!

p.s.surgauro,it looks like you found a woody cactus!

The post was about the economics of running diesel vs. gas; however, when compared against each other, there isn't that much difference between the two. The 6.0 liter gasoline engine does very well towing heavy loads when compared to the diesel. One such comparison can be found below.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout4mpg.html

Thank you very much for bringing this subject up!
the speed acutually means nothing to me,where is the fuel mileage comparison.

when you pull a few long grades,it will help you to realize the difference,let alone towwin heavy on the flats.that is why some of us have the diesel.i had a 454,it used a half tank to pull 10k trailer up 6% grade,for 30 minutes at 60 mph! gas does not compare.i think the only vehicals that are commonly going 200k without major repair are the jap cars,where ever they are made "1/2" are made here now.it's true diesel used to be cheaper than regular but, not any more,never going to be again.go back to the btu of gas vs diesel and you will be ok with the extra cost of the fuel,add that to the savings in mileage and most of you can do the math,and it work's out ok.then think about your gasser screaming at 4k,vs the 6.6 doing 2.5k.i know the diesel should go 200k or more without repairs but just run a search on the gm gasser engine,and you will find many unhappy customers,they almost all have piston slap,and oil consumption,and thats not even towwing for most.i will not own a gas gm,or ford,or dodge for that matter.you can bash ford all you want but, the 7.3 was a good engine,so is,was the 5.9.dmax is good too but, it has afew problems i will grant you that.and further more,if you had to replace more than two sets of injectors,i could see the point of doing the 5.9 conversion but,the noise!
the dmax is the most comfortable long range engine to tow with,with that said,i'm jumpin off the soap box!

Only those that pull heavy loads for long distances will be able to experience any advantage from the new diesels.

DieselPower Magazine this month (December, 2007 - Pg 128) has an article comparing a 2007 LMM Duramax/Allison Silverado vs a 2007 gas powered LY6/6L90 Silverado. Both trucks were 4WD EC/SB 2500HD with 6-speed automatic transmissions and 3.73 axle ratios.

This test pretty much shows that the diesel no longer has a cost advantage with regards to fuel economy. Any noticeable advantage only shows up in 1/4 mile runs or when merging side-by-side on to freeway traffic while towing a heavy trailer. However, for the most part, the average owner will be very happy with the 6.0L gas engine in the 3/4 ton truck, at a much lower cost compared to the LMM diesel.

As far as saving any money with the diesel due to better fuel economy, it will never happen for the average owner. The diesel options carries an MSRP costs premium of $8,395 vs a similarly equipped 6.0L gas truck.

Fuel economy for the total time that DieselPower Magazine tested these trucks was a real disappointment.

The diesel burned 37.31 gallons in 441.30 mile, for an average of 11.83 MPG :eek:


The 6.0L gas truck burned 43.47 gallons in 511.7 miles for an average of 11.77 MPG

Sure, if you drive them like a grandma, the diesel will get much better mileage than shown here, so will the gasser. But the point is that if driven under similar conditions, there isn't much fuel economy difference between the two engine options. Certainly not enough to make up the difference in up-front cost and fuel cost, especially when diesel fuel costs anywhere from 45 to 75 cents per gallon MORE than regular gasoline. At that rate, there is NO WAY to break even.

Even if you were an optimist and decided that the LMM could average 19 mpg for the total life of the truck (which it won't) vs 13 mpg for the 6.0L gas truck. You will never save enough to pay for the diesel option.

We have our spineless politicians and the environmental wackos to thank for making the diesel NO LONGER a cost effective option. :mad:

Only those that pull heavy loads for long distances will be able to experience any advantage from the new diesels.

DieselPower Magazine this month (December, 2007 - Pg 128) has an article comparing a 2007 LMM Duramax/Allison Silverado vs a 2007 gas powered LY6/6L90 Silverado. Both trucks were 4WD EC/SB 2500HD with 6-speed automatic transmissions and 3.73 axle ratios.

This test pretty much shows that the diesel no longer has a cost advantage with regards to fuel economy. Any noticeable advantage only shows up in 1/4 mile runs or when merging side-by-side on to freeway traffic while towing a heavy trailer. However, for the most part, the average owner will be very happy with the 6.0L gas engine in the 3/4 ton truck, at a much lower cost compared to the LMM diesel.

As far as saving any money with the diesel due to better fuel economy, it will never happen for the average owner. The diesel options carries an MSRP costs premium of $8,395 vs a similarly equipped 6.0L gas truck.

Fuel economy for the total time that DieselPower Magazine tested these trucks was a real disappointment.

The diesel burned 37.31 gallons in 441.30 mile, for an average of 11.83 MPG :eek:
The 6.0L gas truck burned 43.47 gallons in 511.7 miles for an average of 11.77 MPGSure, if you drive them like a grandma, the diesel will get much better mileage than shown here, so will the gasser. But the point is that if driven under similar conditions, there isn't much fuel economy difference between the two engine options. Certainly not enough to make up the difference in up-front cost and fuel cost, especially when diesel fuel costs anywhere from 45 to 75 cents per gallon MORE than regular gasoline. At that rate, there is NO WAY to break even.

Even if you were an optimist and decided that the LMM could average 19 mpg for the total life of the truck (which it won't) vs 13 mpg for the 6.0L gas truck. You will never save enough to pay for the diesel option.

We have our spineless politicians and the environmental wackos to thank for making the diesel NO LONGER a cost effective option. :mad:
I agree, you speak the truth, but we all spend our money how we want!

Keeping my lb7 is looking better all the time. 22mpg on my last empty trip..all hwy. I sure won't be going back to gas.

Only those that pull heavy loads for long distances will be able to experience any advantage from the new diesels.

DieselPower Magazine this month (December, 2007 - Pg 128) has an article comparing a 2007 LMM Duramax/Allison Silverado vs a 2007 gas powered LY6/6L90 Silverado. Both trucks were 4WD EC/SB 2500HD with 6-speed automatic transmissions and 3.73 axle ratios.

This test pretty much shows that the diesel no longer has a cost advantage with regards to fuel economy. Any noticeable advantage only shows up in 1/4 mile runs or when merging side-by-side on to freeway traffic while towing a heavy trailer. However, for the most part, the average owner will be very happy with the 6.0L gas engine in the 3/4 ton truck, at a much lower cost compared to the LMM diesel.

As far as saving any money with the diesel due to better fuel economy, it will never happen for the average owner. The diesel options carries an MSRP costs premium of $8,395 vs a similarly equipped 6.0L gas truck.

Fuel economy for the total time that DieselPower Magazine tested these trucks was a real disappointment.
The diesel burned 37.31 gallons in 441.30 mile, for an average of 11.83 MPG :eek:
The 6.0L gas truck burned 43.47 gallons in 511.7 miles for an average of 11.77 MPGSure, if you drive them like a grandma, the diesel will get much better mileage than shown here, so will the gasser. But the point is that if driven under similar conditions, there isn't much fuel economy difference between the two engine options. Certainly not enough to make up the difference in up-front cost and fuel cost, especially when diesel fuel costs anywhere from 45 to 75 cents per gallon MORE than regular gasoline. At that rate, there is NO WAY to break even.

Even if you were an optimist and decided that the LMM could average 19 mpg for the total life of the truck (which it won't) vs 13 mpg for the 6.0L gas truck. You will never save enough to pay for the diesel option.

We have our spineless politicians and the environmental wackos to thank for making the diesel NO LONGER a cost effective option. :mad:

Keeping my lb7 is looking better all the time. 22mpg on my last empty trip..all hwy. I sure won't be going back to gas.
Yeap! I sure am glad I got my LBZ when I did. :) A new LMM would be very difficult for me to justify right now. :(

EXTENSION? Bullsh!t
GM hides behind their deceiving Extended Injector Warantee to 200K/7 year, which is worded so they won't have to pay for sh!t. I had a failure of 2 injectors at 91K miles, and they tell me, "I'm sorry, but our bulletin doesn't cover YOUR type of injector failure.
How deceiving can you get. I'd bet 99% of the customers that got this Service Bulletin thought their problem injectors were covered for a longer time, and GM was stepping up to the plate for their design problems, and was really trying to compensate the customers who had to live with this problem. When it's time to collect, you're SOL. What a bunch of crap.
If anyone asks me about buying a LB7, I'll tell them definately don't, unless your willing to replace bad injectors at your cost, cause GM won't help.
I've talked to two different Customer Service Reps with zero help.
Don't know who else to talk to.
Here's my story:
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172724

The dealer you go to plays a major role in how the warranty is handled. Some follow it to the letter...which is good practice, but sucks for the customer. Others are more customer friendly and only look at the balance rates (which is why my truck is getting injectors covered). Finding a dealer that is willing to serve the customer by not doing their job "right" is the key.

I bought my truck knowing about the injectors and the warranty.
It is an 2001 so my time is up very soon, next Aug I think.

The truck has 118K miles now I bought it at 97K a couple of years ago.

My only prob is the "check engine light" comes on every month or so, more frequently now. I get a surging idle and the code is fuel pressure reg or something like that.

one of my injectors was +-3

At 72K 2 of the injectors were replaced by the prev owner before gm did the warranty.

They never replaced all 8 so I am nervous.

My diesel tech, whom I found from this site, work at a GM dealership and has provided free scans b/c I thought it was my injectors.

I spoke with him last fall and we went through the records, I mentioned I'd like all 8 replaced b/c my paranoia.

He say no prob we can do that. Well I'll stop by on Dec 15 to get the ball started and I'll let you all know. The people in that service dept. treated me good, very surprising.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Finding a dealer that is willing to serve the customer by not doing their job "right" is the key.

I agree with you, but I blame GM for coming up with a special policy that forces the dealers to make such choices. As a result, some dealers just cover injector failures regardless if the failure meets the special policy conditions or not while others follow it to a tee and thus you get stories of people getting coverage and others like me getting screwed.

In the end, it's GM's losses.

The dealer you go to plays a major role in how the warranty is handled. Some follow it to the letter...which is good practice, but sucks for the customer. Others are more customer friendly and only look at the balance rates (which is why my truck is getting injectors covered). Finding a dealer that is willing to serve the customer by not doing their job "right" is the key.

As stated in the link of my original post, I was 2000 miles from home with family on vacation, 12K 5ver, 100+ deg F heat, mountains, desert, and took it to the nearest Dealer, who stated he could have it fixed in 4 days. I didn't have many options.
Talking about this ordeal again, ........................................I'm still pissed :mad:

Kawtipping, nothing negative is directed toward you.

Only those that pull heavy loads for long distances will be able to experience any advantage from the new diesels.
DieselPower Magazine this month (December, 2007 - Pg 128) has an article comparing a 2007 LMM Duramax/Allison Silverado vs a 2007 gas powered LY6/6L90 Silverado. Both trucks were 4WD EC/SB 2500HD with 6-speed automatic transmissions and 3.73 axle ratios.
The 6.0 liter gasoline engine does very well towing heavy loads when compared to the diesel. One such comparison can be found below.
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout4mpg.html

Great find! This extensive comparison test of both gas & diesel HDs is definitely worth a look.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1mpg.html
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1.html
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1mpg.html

There's a whole lot to look through, but this one test boils it down:
http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout4mpg.html
pulling a 10,500 lb. trailer up a 1,476 ft. long 7% grade.

Here are the speeds at the top of the hill for the diesel / gas HDs:

Dodge: 47.5 mph / 43.9 mph
Ford: 45.5 mph / 46.6 mph
GM: 50.5 mph / 47.7 mph

The Ford Powerstroke couldn't even keep up with its gas V-10 sibling, which was equipped with a stump-pulling 4.3 axle ratio. The Dodge diesel had a 4.1 axle ratio. But the new GM gas LY6 6.0L V8 with the new 6-speed 6L90 tranny outpulls both gas & diesel Ford & Dodge HDs in this test.

Both GM gas & diesel HDs had 3.73 axle ratios, and as tall or taller top gear than Dodge or Ford, which means the GM HDs would turn lower revs in lightly loaded cruising.

GM HDs with the LY6 6.0L also have an optional 4.1 axle ratio (RPO GT5).

[quote=modified;2194344]As stated in the link of my original post, I was 2000 miles from home with family on vacation, 12K 5ver, 100+ deg F heat, mountains, desert, and took it to the nearest Dealer, who stated he could have it fixed in 4 days. I didn't have many options.

that does really suck,gm should cover them if they are bad,end of story! you have more than a right to be unhappy with gm,and you should not have to go dealer shopping.diesel was up to 3.90 last time i filled in californiacation.i'm drivin like granny.

Wow, what can I say that hasn't been said before.

With having to go into the engine twice to replace defective injectors not covered under the special policy and now with less than 1000 miles since they were in the engine last I have 3 of the remanufactured injectors out of spec but not covered under the special policy again. I cannot afford to have to do this everyother week. I feel that with the history of the failure rates of these injectors that trading the truck for a new LMM the payments over the next few years will be a wise insurance policy...for me anyway. I went just short of 109K before the injector problem hit me, and I haven't been able to shake it. Friday she'll be the dealers problem.

As far as the magazine article stating that the 6.0 gasser towed as economically as the Diesel with the same load. :rolleyes: Did they have any ocean front property for sale in Arizona?

As far as the magazine article stating that the 6.0 gasser towed as economically as the Diesel with the same load. Did they have any ocean front property for sale in Arizona?
According to what Ray posted, the Diesel Power article didn't say that.

The mileage figures given were the average for all miles driven during their test.

It would be nice to get more specific info from the Diesel Power test, but I don't see the article on their website.

Dodge: 47.5 mph / 43.9 mph
Ford: 45.5 mph / 46.6 mph
GM: 50.5 mph / 47.7 mph

The Ford Powerstroke couldn't even keep up with its gas V-10 sibling, which was equipped with a stump-pulling 4.3 axle ratio. The Dodge diesel had a 4.1 axle ratio. But the new GM gas LY6 6.0L V8 with the new 6-speed 6L90 tranny outpulls both gas & diesel Ford & Dodge HDs in this test.

Both GM gas & diesel HDs had 3.73 axle ratios, and as tall or taller top gear than Dodge or Ford, which means the GM HDs would turn lower revs in lightly loaded cruising.

GM HDs with the LY6 6.0L also have an optional 4.1 axle ratio (RPO GT5).
Exactly.

My point being that for the average owner who pulls his 5-ver or boat 4 to 8 times a summer, a difference of 2.8 mph pulling up a hill won't mean squat when compared to the up-front cost of the diesel package plus the additional cost per gallon of fuel.

I dont believe that it is all GM's fault for trucks breaking down. I have work on this one guy's truck that doesn't take care of his vehicles. Did a head gasket job and told him that his radiator wasnt going to last much longer, two months later burnt the motor up by overheating radiator gave out and he didnt realize that it was overheating and out of fuild. This is just onne of his trucks. He has three and i have seen all of them over and over for stuff that could be prevented by care and maintence.

Some folks do not know what the underside of the hood looks like, and probably do not care to know either.............Sad

Guess I'm just lucky so far. 78000 on the damx; had the balance rates checked in August and no problems...

well if you're searching on injectors only, than yes maybe GM is the worst in those regards. However the Ford 6.0 had it's fair share of problems, why do you think the relationship between Navistar and Ford are so strained with payments being held by Ford?

I don't know much about the cummins 5.9, but i do know alot of the chassis parts bolted to it, rear ends and transmissions were rather problematic.


My little 2 cents worth on the injector issues. Check out the problems that Ford had with turbo's on the 6.0. Have quite a few buddies with them and everyone but 1 has had a turbo or 2 put on before 10,000 miles. Matter of fact, dealer here wouldn't let it be test drove unless it was brought completely up to temp. All trucks have issues. As much as it sucks, fix what breaks and press on I guess.

All trucks have issues. As much as it sucks, fix what breaks and press on I guess.



Well PUT!

Is there a way to adapt the lly or lbz injectors to the lb7? total noob question right? I;m curious because I was reading a build uo thread and some one commented about mixing and matching lly parts to avoid the whole injector thing.

Is there a way to adapt the lly or lbz injectors to the lb7? total noob question right? I;m curious because I was reading a build uo thread and some one commented about mixing and matching lly parts to avoid the whole injector thing.

Cant use the lly injectors on the lb7 - need to swap the heads and electronics.

nope,you can adopt a lly,as long as you want to change out the wire harness,and deal with the over heating problems.
rick,one of the moderators,has converted a few of his trucks,or his son.the boy claims dad has neglected a lot of the work!son says he has done a lot of it.they have not had any more injector problems.i have not read to much in the lly section but,i think someone has come up with somewhat of a cure for the overheating problems.

p.s. i think i just made the lly engines go up a little in price from the salvage yard.

An LLY swap is nearly impossible for those of us driving 01-02 trucks due to the computer language change in 03.
As for injectors, they aren't that hard to change. It requires a lot of time, but few tools. I replaced the one bad injector in my truck for about $400 total including the 3 gallons of Amsoil and both oil filters. It took all day, but it was much cheaper than paying somebody else to change it.

that is some very good input "boondokr"

According to what Ray posted, the Diesel Power article didn't say that.

The mileage figures given were the average for all miles driven during their test.

It would be nice to get more specific info from the Diesel Power test, but I don't see the article on their website.


ask and you shall recieve:

duramax:
miles:36.4 Gallons:3.48 Mpg:10.46 City/Highway
Miles:198.8 Gallons:13.97 MPG:14.23 City/Highway
Miles:206.1 Gallons:19.86 MPG:10.38 Towing, Dyno, Dragstrip and Highway

Vortec:
Miles:246.2 Gallons:21.65 MPG:11.37 City Traffic
Miles:69.6 Gallons:8.67 MPG:8.03 City Traffic
Miles:148.8 Gallons:9.98 MPG:14.91 Dyno, Dragstrip and Highway
Miles:47.1 Gallons:3.17 MPG:14.86 Highway


drag race:
duramax:15.308 @84.713
Vortec:17.07 @82.262

Dyno:
duramax:303.37HP 507.33Ft-Lbs
vortec:279.01HP 263.2Ft-Lbs

Towing:
steep grade from 15-65 MPH.
Duramax:1)24.8 seconds 2)24.1 seconds
Vortec:1)33.3 seconds 2)30.6 seconds

Ken

ah so it was a whole new engine and electronics.... thats too bad.

After reading alot of posts on hear and on dieselstop, it kinda looks like a bosch issue, since they make injectors for ford also, CRD and the high pressure wit it and not to mention the poor quality of #2 fuel in the US....It is no wonder there is a high injector rate....but if they would only invest in higher class of materials to make them I think this problem would go away.....there are failures even on the nicktane setup but they are far and few between...I would think that bosch would step up to the plate on this....


WRONG ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have nicktane and run additives and have 50k injectors twice now.