What are peoples thoughts on this? I have a 2004 2500hd 4x4 CC Sb with 4:10 gears rolling on 20" rims, very close to stock height for overall tire diameter. The truck has very low kms, about 15,000 kms and is mostly used to pull our trailer. Mods I have done are air intake, exhaust, throttle body spacer, none with any real difference. The trailer we are going to buy will be around 9,000lbs, well within the tow limit but we do travel in mountain terrain. I want more power and do like our truck but hate working the truck pulling hills. Is there a safe way to supercharge a 8.1 so that it is reliable and made for coutinuous pulling or should I look at a dmax? Spoke with one salesman and he said if equipped with a supercharger and pulling a hill it will probably back off the boost because of higher EGT's and the truck will seem to fall on its face. Drove a Tahoe with a whipple S.C. 5.3L and it had a warning light when EGT's got to hot and it backed off the boost. Drove like a POS. Thoughts, suggestions? Not crazy about doing a custome tune, truck just seems to struggle with the higher elevations.

Even with a supercharger you won't have the effortless torque of a diesel. supercharged is a absolute ball to drive, but big long inclines is still going to be allot of work for a gas motor if you want to maintain good speed, it will do it but it's going to be a gas hog.

What are peoples thoughts on this? I have a 2004 2500hd 4x4 CC Sb with 4:10 gears rolling on 20" rims, very close to stock height for overall tire diameter. The truck has very low kms, about 15,000 kms and is mostly used to pull our trailer. Mods I have done are air intake, exhaust, throttle body spacer, none with any real difference. The trailer we are going to buy will be around 9,000lbs, well within the tow limit but we do travel in mountain terrain. I want more power and do like our truck but hate working the truck pulling hills. Is there a safe way to supercharge a 8.1 so that it is reliable and made for coutinuous pulling or should I look at a dmax? Spoke with one salesman and he said if equipped with a supercharger and pulling a hill it will probably back off the boost because of higher EGT's and the truck will seem to fall on its face. Drove a Tahoe with a whipple S.C. 5.3L and it had a warning light when EGT's got to hot and it backed off the boost. Drove like a POS. Thoughts, suggestions? Not crazy about doing a custome tune, truck just seems to struggle with the higher elevations.

Thats why they should be intercooled just like turbos. It will not be cheap so maybe trading in for the same truck but diesel will be a option.

You can do an intercooled Whipple. The Whipple I had on my 8.1 wasn't cooled, but I know other guys that have had the intercooled version and it runs much better. The Whippled 8.1 was a blast to drive around town but I didn't get a chance to pull my 5'er with it but maybe twice (very short distance).

Here's a pic of the Whipple on my '01.

http://photos.imageevent.com/pharcydecustoms/jeffstruck/websize/DSC03499.JPG

My experience was with a 96' 454 'burb' so I don't know exactly what you could expect but I suppose that the results could be very similar (prolly better!!). I went with the Pro-charger kit (centrifical with a air-to-air cooler) and I was VERY pleased with the end result!! I'll have to say that it DID pull as good as any stock diesel (torque was 850+ on the ground).:eek:
The truck was not amazingly quick but it pulled heavy trailers with unbelievable ease! I think that the 8.1 motor would yield better H.P.#'s but maybe not as much TQ. ???? One tip: if you do the charger, DO NOT skimp on the inter-cooler!! Mine came with one but it needed a 'real' cooler to help with looooong pulls (as mentioned, heat is tremendous with these chargers). If I could 're-do' mine, I'd try to get an inter-cooler from a diesel application and do what-ever it takes to get it in the truck!!! Either that or pay to have a sheet-metal cooler built.;) If you have the dough to spend, you won't be sorry with a charger set-up. Good-luck,Ed.

thanks for the info, i would definetly do some sort of a intercooler. the whipple comes with one but not sure how effective it would be because of its size. Good idea on a diesel intercooler, not sure on how much work to put it in. Buying a diesel would be the easiest way but I have a feeling I would loose my shirt if I tried to sell my truck. Plus having the truck since new I know what I have, not crazy about dropping $60,000 on a new one to drive 4-5,000kms per year.

My father had a whippled 04 with exahust, chip, air filter, all the goodies. Ran like a bat out of hell, but i would still take a dmax over it for towing.

My 8100 is stock,and I have a modded Cummins,which is not extreme,but pretty strong.I gotta say there is absolutely no comparison on pulling power.A supercharger couldnt make up 1/2 the difference in pulling power,IMO.The Cummins isnt even breaking a sweat on hills in OD locked,running 1900-2200RPM,that the 8100 will have to drop 2-3 gears and run 4000RPM ,and drop 5-10 mph road speed to climb.All this is with my fueling box turned off or level 1 on my Cummins.I make about 400 RWHP with the box off/about 450 with it on level 1 setting.I have never needed more than 1/2 throttle on level 1 (about 45-50psi boost)1150EGT to maintain 65mph speed up the biggest hills/mountians here towing my Sunnybrook 3310(about 8500lbs),+ the golf cart and wood.After about 2 minutes at steady 45PSI+boost,in the summer heat the coolant will hit 210,and kick the fan on,but thats about it.

I say slow down on hills,its the cheapest way to go,next a STS turbo kit or charger,or better,but more expensive,trade to a diesel.I do think your 8100 is probably more reliable than a duramax in the long,stock for stock.

I do think your 8100 is probably more reliable than a duramax in the long,stock for stock.


:wtf: :eek:

:wtf: :eek:
It normally goes longer without major repairs. And when it does need service, it costs much less. Is that clear enough?

When ever someone comes out with a great engine such as the D-max or LS1 that's really popular, some folks just start believing that it's the untouchable pinnacle of all its competition. Asking them to conduct a reality check usually ignites a bonfire of ridicule.

Supercharge your 8.1, the kits availible are low boost and have shown great results. It's much more cost effective then buying an expensive D-max rig to replace your perfectly good truck. I would go Kenne Bell before Whipple because they use larger injectors and a reprogrammed PCM. It just works better. You won't have extreme EGT's if the air/fuel ratio is kept in check like with the KB setup.

Vernon

The intercooler is used to cool the intake air by removing some of the heat generated by compressing it with a SC or turbo, it will not keep an engine cool on long climbs in gassers or diesels. Compression above 10PSI will be very ineffective without an intercooler as the expanded air due to heat reduces the overall amount available for mixture with the fuel.

:wtf: :eek:

What dont you understand about my comment?From my expereinces its very true,I've got 5 dmaxes in my family and friends.Only one hasnt needed mulitple sets of injectors/water pumps/ or had misc problems.When the dmax needs service,it is very $$ to repair compared to the gas engines. The Vortec 8100 is very reliable,maybe a crank sensor or 2,and it will run as long or longer than a dmax,and any service station can fix it.Ive seen 8.1s with 200K+ on them,that run like new,no leaks,no excess oil use,and they pulled almost all those miles.I realize the diesel is alot more efficient,but I stand on the 8100 being more reliable,if I had thought it the other way ,I would have a DMax instead of the 8100.

What dont you understand about my comment?From my expereinces its very true,I've got 5 dmaxes in my family and friends.Only one hasnt needed mulitple sets of injectors/water pumps/ or had misc problems.When the dmax needs service,it is very $$ to repair compared to the gas engines. The Vortec 8100 is very reliable,maybe a crank sensor or 2,and it will run as long or longer than a dmax,and any service station can fix it.Ive seen 8.1s with 200K+ on them,that run like new,no leaks,no excess oil use,and they pulled almost all those miles.I realize the diesel is alot more efficient,but I stand on the 8100 being more reliable,if I had thought it the other way ,I would have a DMax instead of the 8100.

I had a 8.1 also, It was problem free for me to. It did burn alot of oil. As my dads 04 does also. Yes, Many eariler Duramaxs have their injector problem. GM covers that for you, yes some get screwed. My Duramax has been problem free, as for many others on this board.

I haven't seen an 8.1 with 400,000 + with the stock internals..Some Duramax's are racking up the miles as their getting older. Proving their reliabilty..

"""""""""[quote=Manic Mechanic;2151130]It normally goes longer without major repairs. And when it does need service, it costs much less. Is that clear enough?

When ever someone comes out with a great engine such as the D-max or LS1 that's really popular, some folks just start believing that it's the untouchable pinnacle of all its competition. Asking them to conduct a reality check usually ignites a bonfire of ridicule.

Supercharge your 8.1, the kits availible are low boost and have shown great results. It's much more cost effective then buying an expensive D-max rig to replace your perfectly good truck. I would go Kenne Bell before Whipple because they use larger injectors and a reprogrammed PCM. It just works better. You won't have extreme EGT's if the air/fuel ratio is kept in check like with the KB setup."""""""""""




I might be wrong so feel free to correct me but Last year I was told by a Kenne Bell rep that the superchargers for 8.1's are not being built anymore, thats the scharger that i wanted to get for mine, mostly since they were the only ones that had one in stock and ready to go that would go with my ZF. Waited too long though!:banghead:

the duramax is not the end all to the world of light duty trucks, i realize that. every motor/truck is gonna have its probs. however, i dont see an 8.1 doin what i ask of my truck day in and day out without some severe abuse. i bought my truck with 50k on the odo and have put 57k on it in 14 mos. to date, im in it for a water pump and a belt. big deal. replaced water pumps and belts about 100k on a gasser too, sooooo...... :think:

as far as a service costs, it is more. oil is more, tranny fluid/filter is more, fuel filteris more, but thats part of owning a truck that'll do 350k miles without a teardown. i dont get the major repairs part though..... that supposed to mean a water pump is major repair?? belts???

I might be wrong so feel free to correct me but Last year I was told by a Kenne Bell rep that the superchargers for 8.1's are not being built anymore, thats the scharger that i wanted to get for mine, mostly since they were the only ones that had one in stock and ready to go that would go with my ZF. Waited too long though!:banghead:

I can't tell you what thier current offerings are. I had read online that it was their larger units that weren't availible for the 8.1/Alli. Even if it is true they offerered the ECM and injectors as a Whipple upgrade separately. If you can't get that I would get with one of the better tuners to do the same thing. A supercharger is something you really need to have programming to properly use. Whipples auxillary injector setup (if they are still using it) doesn't work as well. Kenne Bell has a very good web site you can check out that will give you answers.

Vernon

:eek:

I'd be wondering how long the 8.1's cast crankshaft
would handle the boost...and almost instant RPMs
that a true supercharger would give. I would think that
the first things to do when adding a supercharger would be to add a forged crankshaft, hell-for-stout forged rods, and forged, low-compression pistons...the supercharger is "on" boost all the time, unlike a turbo, and the engine should be purpose built to handle it.

Then there's the issue of tuning the Power Control Module to match it, plus the issue of how strong the
rest of the powertrain is, you wouldn't want to intall
a supercharger one week and grenade the tranmission
the next week.

There are many on this Forum that have Whippled the
8.1 with great luck and no reported problems...but the
cast crankshaft would always be (to me) a big question
mark. And you have to prep for good luck.

Steady Eddie
L21 Vortec

If he's winding it up allot that may be an issue, but for towing the Cast Crank should be fine. also they aren't in boost all the time, only when you give it enough pedal to get enough air for that particular load. I could drive all day and not get into boost, But I Don't:D

:eek:

I'd be wondering how long the 8.1's cast crankshaft
would handle the boost...and almost instant RPMs
that a true supercharger would give. I would think that
the first things to do when adding a supercharger would be to add a forged crankshaft, hell-for-stout forged rods, and forged, low-compression pistons...the supercharger is "on" boost all the time, unlike a turbo, and the engine should be purpose built to handle it.

Then there's the issue of tuning the Power Control Module to match it, plus the issue of how strong the
rest of the powertrain is, you wouldn't want to intall
a supercharger one week and grenade the tranmission
the next week.

There are many on this Forum that have Whippled the
8.1 with great luck and no reported problems...but the
cast crankshaft would always be (to me) a big question
mark. And you have to prep for good luck.

Steady Eddie
L21 Vortec


Actually Eddie, the pistons will be the first thing to fail in these motors if the setup is to wild. The factory cast pistons like to break on the sides when to much load or ring pressure is applied to the sides and they give way and start dumping oil out the valve covers. All the research that I have recently done for the 8100 found the STSTurbo kit was infact the best choice and bang for the buck. Magna and Whipple no longer offer a kit for these applications so you can either try a Centrifical charger or just get the turbo kit which is a better choice as you don't have belt issues or a ton of stuff stuck in the way under the hood. The STS kit is very clean and I highly recommend it for this application. Power numbers at the rear tires are almost identically to a stock dmax with a towing tune and you have the same trany so I fail to see the issue here with towing in your trucks. The recent one that I installed for a local customer is a great example of the kits ability to deliver usable power to the everyday driver without the driveabilty issues usually associated with aftermarket forced induction kits for everday use.

I was thinking along the lines of a Roots-type Supercharger, like the GMC 4-61. Had a buddy
that had one in a BB drag boat and at idle it was
whistling and under a small amount of boost. It
was pretty much a no-brainer that if the rotors
were turning, then it was pumping air. Of course
that depends on the drive, his was under-driven
and mostly just for looks...didn't I mention adding
forged pistons??

Steady Eddie
7400 Vortec BB

I have had 3 whipples and would use one again in an instant. My 7.4 with the whipple and an nv4500 was an awsome tow rig and was stone reliable. I also heard that Whipple and Kenne Bell were stopping the 8100 kits, but I have seen several on ebay. There are guys out there that will reprogram your ecm to get rid of whipple extra injectors and ecm setup. David Darge at Powertrain Electronics should be able to help you.
The roots type take lots of power and make lots of heat in a gas application, look cool and add big torque, but inefficient compared to a screw type or the smaller compressor style like paxton. From the research I have done they really don't recommend the paxton style for towing though.
Good luck, happy boosting!

Is the 8.1 the same as a 496ci??? I think theres a few that make blowers for the marine version of the 496.....

Is the 8.1 the same as a 496ci??? I think theres a few that make blowers for the marine version of the 496.....

Basically they're the same engine. Do you post on Offshoreonly? Lot's of Donzi guys over there.

Vernon

Basically they're the same engine. Do you post on Offshoreonly? Lot's of Donzi guys over there.

Vernon

I Do, One of my friends is a founding member, my Dad is a sponsor (stainless Marine)

thanks for all the help guys. If a go ahead and do anything this is definetely a winter project. I will spend lots of time researching it as I like to do things once and get it right the first time.

Actually Eddie, the pistons will be the first thing to fail in these motors if the setup is to wild. The factory cast pistons like to break on the sides when to much load or ring pressure is applied to the sides and they give way and start dumping oil out the valve covers. All the research that I have recently done for the 8100 found the STSTurbo kit was infact the best choice and bang for the buck. Magna and Whipple no longer offer a kit for these applications so you can either try a Centrifical charger or just get the turbo kit which is a better choice as you don't have belt issues or a ton of stuff stuck in the way under the hood. The STS kit is very clean and I highly recommend it for this application. Power numbers at the rear tires are almost identically to a stock dmax with a towing tune and you have the same trany so I fail to see the issue here with towing in your trucks. The recent one that I installed for a local customer is a great example of the kits ability to deliver usable power to the everyday driver without the driveabilty issues usually associated with aftermarket forced induction kits for everday use.

You got it right on the money!:D

I actual installed a blow off valve two weeks ago for the customer even thought sts said it wasn't needed and wow what a difference that really makes. Now you would never know that it had a turbo on it during normal town driving and coasting. If anyone does one of these kits, get the blow off valve as you will be alot happier with it.