I finally got ahold of a handfull of the new filters... here are some pics...

http://gmdieseltech.com/ff1.jpg

I counted 150 pleats on this, but that number could be off by a few, I might have lost count in there somewhere..

http://gmdieseltech.com/ff2.jpg

Never mind the blue color in the pic below, its from my hacksaw blade. Notice the two pleats..
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff3.jpg

The two rows of pleats are togather as thick as the previous filters one row.
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff4.jpg



Of course, these filters will be available at www.gmdieseltech.com (http://www.gmdieseltech.com) .

As soon as I can build a supply of them, I will make them avail for sale. Price will be at 30.00

and a few more pics....

Again, never mind the blue...its from my hacksaw blade
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff5.jpg

http://gmdieseltech.com/ff6.jpg


Cross-sectioned
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff7.jpg

The paper is very fine and the pleats have increased paper size to I would guess double.
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff8.jpg

Here is the previous filter on the left, used obviously, to compare.
http://gmdieseltech.com/ff9.jpg

Nice job.....

Can I buy the cut up one? It reminds me of my uni air filter. Ahh such fond memories.

The dirty one looks real bad.

Nice job on this thread.. Good that you are looking out for us..

Eric...

Thanks for the pics ... now that it is confirmed that there is a design change, do we have any idea how much, if any, the new filter will improve filtration?

Jim

Eric cool thanks


This will fit 01's correct? They seem to be the same height,width?No specs on filtering capabilities to particle size?The dirty one,who the hell went that far into service interval?

That one is filtering mighty fine!

Mac

Nice job with the pics Eric and thanks for doing the up front research for us on this. It looks like it should do a better job filtering. I'm about a 1000 miles from a filter change and since I'm not driving the DMax all that much right now I'm figuring early February will be change time. Hopefully my dealer has some in by then.

the dirty filter had about 15k on it.

PC, I'll see how many pieces I have left of it. You shoulda seen the guys at work get this huge smile on my face over a 'stupid fuel filter' and then watch them as the first thing I did with a new filter was cut it to pieces with an air saw....

I guess not everybody shares my passion....

Mac, the filter is a direct replacement for 01 and up, both LB7 and LLY

Does fuel travel from the middle toward the outside, or vice versa? Would that be 2 levels of filtration, one pleat finer than the other?

The dirty one looks like its had a lift pump behind it.I don't see any striping at all.

If there's no difference in the filtering porosity of the two sets of pleats, at least there's double protection against channeling and "blowout" over the single element original.

Eric,

How long before I can order some from you?

If there's no difference in the filtering porosity of the two sets of pleats, at least there's double protection against channeling and "blowout" over the single element original.

I thought on the earlier post where the actual diagram drawing was posted by Eric that it was said that there were two different filter media being used. I can't confirm this though because I can't get that file to open.

Here's Eric's original link to the drawing. Maybe someone else can get it to open. What do you use to open a .tif file?


http://www.gmdieseltech.com/llyfilterspec.tif

I think recent versions of IE have Tif viewers embedded.

The drawing shows 2 pleats "for increased filtration efficiency". The media spec is "TBD", but I'll bet (hope) it's 2 different media. That is good to see, GM learning.:confused:

here it is

Thanks for the pic MasterP2,
I have high hopes for this new filter. Was all set to get a Nicktane from you vendors but.....not to worry, you all will get my $ on the new filters :)

Thanks to Dmaxallitech for bringing us the pics, and the filters. These are the same filter that is stock on the LLY???? Is that correct, or is there a 3rd filter?

Masterp2, flows from the outside in.

The dirty filter pictured was on a stock fuel system. No stripping cause its past the point in its life for that.LOL

I only have a few of these on hand and one less for obvious reasons. I will have them avail for sale as soon as I can build a supply of them. I think they are gonna go fast.
Judging by what it looks like compared to the previous design, it SHOULD have better filtering abilities, but the reality is that testing will be hard to do I think. This filter will replace the 89016324 filter and the old LLY filter 97363539.

Masterp2, all the LLY's I have seen are still coming with the longer filter that they have been using all along, I will be watching to see if these become the OEM filter for them off the truck.

Hard to test? Just put one on, run it 2K and send a fuel sample to George. Later! Frank

dmaxalliTech ..... Thanks for sacrificing that filter. Maybe the newbies
will not have to mess with adding primary or secondary fuel filters
:rolleyes:

Oh, I get it now. This evolved from the LB7 problems. Eric, the 04 LLY had a single pleat also then? Just longer.

Has anyone cut the longer LLY filter to see if the media is the same as the LB7 short one? Dosen't seem cost effective for GM to just make a 3/4" longer can and use the same filter media. Why not just use the shorter filter on the LLY? Maybe the long can was to be used with the new double media filter, then someone remembered the LB7 folks. Hense the new filter to fit both engines. Just wish they would gear up and get the new filter to market.

Has anyone cut the longer LLY filter to see if the media is the same as the LB7 short one? Dosen't seem cost effective for GM to just make a 3/4" longer can and use the same filter media. Why not just use the shorter filter on the LLY? Maybe the long can was to be used with the new double media filter, then someone remembered the LB7 folks. Hense the new filter to fit both engines. Just wish they would gear up and get the new filter to market.
Unless they wanted to create a larger reservoir to keep any accumulated water farther away from the bottom of the element.
Just a thought.
Blake

element was larger in the LLY's.

I wish they would have stuck with the LLY's element for both applications and then GM coulda went to gmdieseltech.com and purchased the 100 now useless filter head spacers I had made up....

Eric wont the spacers work to have a better filter for a 0ne filter system? I know Gregg had a plug and play Racor frame rail set-up.Will the head of Greggs bolt to your spacer? Or will the filter just mount to OEM head or a Racor that will?

Mac

Mac, my spacer fits between the two halves of the OEM head. There is a joint that holds the valve cover bracket to the actual head, two 12mm head bolts coming from the drivers side hold it togather..

Right I understand but basically it allows a LB7 to run a larger filter by moving the mount away from the block,no?

Got to ask though ! What the hell was being run thru the old style filter,
Soft coal ???? ):h

Mac, exactly.

Who is making the filter? Racor or someone else?

I presume that eventually all filters will be sold (same as cut apart one) ?

What is the new part number, anyone?

It would appear that both elements are paper/celllulose.. Thus the same level of filtration per medium but we now have essentially 'double pass' which will increase the filter's efficiency considerably.. It is very unlikely that we will get to the target ISO 15/13/10 level, however.. The inherent limitations of paper/cellulose as a filter medium are going to come into play vs. synthetic/microglass medium.. But certainly a major step forward in OEM filtration and a very innovative paper element design! It will be most interesting to see some 'before and after' fuel particle counts to see just how effective and efficient the new filter is..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio

Mac, exactly.
If a person installed the spacer on the LB7, which filter are you reccomending? Is the original LLY filter the next step or would a totaly different filter fit? If I could fit a really good filter in there I would buy one of your spacers.

Masterp2, all the LLY's I have seen are still coming with the longer filter that they have been using all along, I will be watching to see if these become the OEM filter for them off the truck.
Seems like Kool posted a while back that they started using the "black stripe" filter on the new DMax motors they were building, but looking back now I can't find the post. May have got lost in the shuffle of the conversion.

bronco, the spacer was intended to space the filter head on the LB7's to allow the longer LLY element to fit. Now that the LLY element is gone, its useless. The new filter is the same size as previous LB7 stuff. No spacing needed.

I get the spacer confused with the adapter. There was someody here making a adapter that would allow the use of a different type of filter altogether. The problem was the extra length would cause almost any filter to hit on the bottom. Maybe your spacer with the other adapter would allow a guy to use a very good filter? Hopefully the new GM filter takes care of all of this!

Part No. on the new filter is 97385488. Eric's price of $30.00 is a great deal. I paid $48.00 for one from a dealer about a week ago.

What is the new part number, anyone?Baldwin part# BF7827

Without a base line like George said why spend one dime on another OEM? Later! Frank

Frank, because it may be all thats avail soon, and knowing GM, I wouldnt be suprised if they start specing that filter out as what has to be used. They are looking for ways of saving injector bucks or they wouldnt have redesigned it anyways...

Without running a test I would probably say that the new OEM should filter better than the old. I think for those running two filters it would not be necessary. I also believe that if you don't have two filters you are missing the boat. It should come before a chip, 4" exhaust and bigger tires. Later! Frank

It should come before a chip, 4" exhaust and bigger tires. Later! FrankDitto!!

For those of us running dual filters (I have Greg's Racor pre filter), could there be any issues with fuel restriction due to the new two stage GM design along with the pre-oem that I'm already running?

not to be a bummer but I had duals on from 7k to almost 25k and still had two injectors crap out on me. Although I still believe in dual filtration on several levels, I'm not convinced cleaner fuel is the end all be all to the injector issue.

I don't believe dual filters is be all-end all either. But after working on HP hydraulic and water cutters for four decades I know it is necessary. There are a lot of injectors replaces for various reasons. Some are replaced for no reason at all. Working with 23K PSI has changed the rules as the Dodge boys say. Later! Frank

Its been proven many times that secondary filtration isnt the answer, but in reality its the only thing we can do as a consumer to help.

The new filter should have no effect on fuel restriction

Been looking at a filter that has a efficiency rating of .45 microns absolute and is compatable with middle distillate fuels. The efficiency rating is .45 microns @ 99.98%. They hold an incredible amount of contaminates through a depth loading design and have a large 4 sq ft of media surface area. The cartridge is about 2.5" x 10". My one concern is the posibility of stripping the fuel of components/additives and I'm currently waiting on the info. that will address this concern. They come in .45, 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 30 micron ratings and are reasonably priced. I would not install this in the main fuel stream but would in a recir type setup. I had a set of these installed yesterday on a subsea methanol injection system that has been experiencing premature valve cutting. We have so far ran 800 gals through the pot that holds 6 cartriges and have seen no diffriential across the filters. This should give a rough guestimate of the life of one element. While I also agree that better filters are not the fix all for our injectors they should contribute significantly to one area of failure. More bases covered should provide a decent cumulative benefit. At least I think so.:rolleyes:

I'm sure Eric will get some more of the new ones soon. Can someone PM me with another source?

Tommy, do you have any pressure drop figures say at 40 PSI? I would like to see how it compares to the 660R2. The new OEM will have a little more than the old if it is truly a better filter. Mine works well now without a lift pump but I don't know by how much. Later! Frank

Frank, We are currently pumping methanol at a 800 GPD rate through a 6 element setup so each element is only seeing 133 GPD (or about 5-1/2 GPH) which is hardly anything compared to what we run our trucks at so we have no diff at the moment. I do have the press drop/rate information in our Parker Cat. so I can have the exact numbers in the AM. I do remember it was too large to use a single element as a main line filter. The element will however withstand a 30 PSI diff. I was thinking of giving one a try out of the main fuel stream and just recirculate back to the tank. Then I would have to see how long it will last before plugging, rates I can accomplish along with checking ISO cleanliness of the fuel it produces to see if it's even feasable for use.(Lots to check) Even though I'm happy with the current setup my truck hasn't had a wrench on it for quite some time so it is killing me to mess with something. Guess I'll never learn.:D

Same here. I am getting bored. It just keeps on ticking. Later! Frank

Masterp2
I'm headed to Courtsey Chevy today to get the new black line filter today, about $28.50. I'll let ya know what I ended up with!!

I'll take one if you get another.

Ok Masterp2
I was skeptical at first thinking it wouldn't be the new one. but I have one in my hand and it is the new one. So I have one for you.
My email is mmcconville03@cox.net waite ta hear from you!

Nice job.

Got my 3 new filters delivered today from Kennedy. $30.00 each + shipping. With 10" of snow coming and 10*F temps - installation will have to wait a few days :)

They are Baldwin filters #BF7827. They obviously don't have the 1/4" black stripe. I PM'ed Kennedy who assured me that these were the new dual elements though.

Is there a way to tell just by looking at them or is this a totally new part number. I don't doubt Kennedy - just curious once I got looking at them.

I am the same way for some reason if its not busy I love to cut the old ones open. I even started to write the milage on them.

Just released 12/7/04.

skoryaro2,

The pic on my web site shows the unit that I cut open (Baldwin) 2 weeks ago. Eric beat me to the pics thing as I had to head out to the PRI show.

On edit: Oops I lied, that pic was taken by Mdrag. The filter is the same model as the one that I cut open...

skoryaro2,

The pic on my web site shows the unit that I cut open (Baldwin) 2 weeks ago. Eric beat me to the pics thing as I had to head out to the PRI show.

On edit: Oops I lied, that pic was taken by Mdrag. The filter is the same model as the one that I cut open...

Thanks! And thanks for the quick shipment. Hope you don't mind if I keep all the shredded paper ):h

Here's the new dual element fuel filter pics from Kennedy's website
On edit: New filter on LEFT / Top - Old filter on RIGHT / BOTTOM

John,
Have you had a chance to check the pressure drop across the new one as compared to the old one?

Trippin, who will be affected by that? Is the old filter overly restrictive in hi-P apps?

Trippin, who will be affected by that? Is the old filter overly restrictive in hi-P apps?
I'm just the curious type. :D

If anyone is interested I listed some LLY long filters for sale.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=447540#post447540

Anyone have a Napa part number for the new filter?

Michael, the folks that are running two filters might be affected if the pressure drop across the new filter is substantial. I am sure OC_Dmax will let us know it it affects his frame mounted Racor setup. Later! Frank

WIX PN will be 33910. Napa's would then be 3910. Not sure if these will be the double pleat though, but since these are bought filters and rebadged, I would assume so.

Can someone update me? I called Oilguard. Mark Meddock says that Racor is going to 1 filter for both Duramax engines (the new dual element filter). It will be the "short" length. I also see the Baldwin filter............Does Baldwin make thir own for the Duramax? Was there a new Racor dual element already on the market? Mark seemed to think the new Racor would not be available for a month or so. SPICER

I think I have some info.......pardon my ignorance if I am repeating common knowledge.......

I spoke with Mark at Oilguard. He did some calling to Racor and here is the latest.....

According to Racor, the old and new filters are using IDENTICAL media. The 2 layers of media in the new design is 2 layers of identical paper media. According to Racor, both the old and new filters have identical micron ratings....98% at 2 microns....

This seems odd. We have our own tests that show the old filter to be much less than 2 microns. It also makes no sense that the new filter using 2 layers (two passes) of the identical paper would not have an improved efficiency rating....?

Mark said Racor claims the purpose for the 2 layer design is for CAPACITY purposes. This too makes no sense. According to Racor the new design has the EXACT total filtering surface area (total paper surface area) as the old design. If the new has 2 layers equalling the same amount of media as the old 1 layer design, then the initial pass has only 1/2 of the paper surface area as the old design.....following me so far? This would mean Less capacity but better single pass rating, right?

There must be some ill informed Racor reps. Anyway, the Baldwin filter IS also made by Racor. Racor is producing the new filters and shipping them to locations where they are "relabeled", such as Baldwin. Any distributor selling the filter under the Racor name will not get the newly designed filters until most of the old style stock is depleted.

A lot of info, not sure how accurate it is. I trust Mark, he has been very helpful. I think Racor has possibly fed him some inaccurate info on the redesigned filter.

Oilguard will be selling the new design as soon as he gets them in. He will keep me informed.

On another note....Oilguard has full flow oil filters made to their own specs. They are new and the data on their website is somewhat inaccurate and will be updated soon. Here is what I know....The filter is made by Champion Labs, the same company making the Mobil 1 oil filter. The Oilguard filter is 100% synthetic fiber media and is 20 micron absolute, 10 micron nominal. The Mobil 1 is 18 micron absolute, 8 micron nominal. They are $8 each if you buy 3 or more. I will pass on more info as it becomes available. SPICER

IIRC, seems to me that past filter tests on the OLD EOM fuel filter put it at around 60% efficient for particles at around 7 microns. Particles bigger than 7 microns are what is said to be causing injector failure. So if the old filter was only 60% efficient with one pass thru the element that would mean that 40% of the larger than 7 micron particles could be getting past the old OEM's single element.

Now, bring on the new dual element filter which is said to have the same filter media as the old one, but the fuel will make two passes thru it. So, in theory, you would be refiltering the 40% particles that got passed the first element which would make this NEW OEM filter about 16% efficient.

Example: #1) 100 pieces of 7 micron particles go thru the OLD filter and 60 of them get filtered out (60% efficiency). That leaves 40 of the 7 micron particles to enter the combustion system.

#2). The same 100 pieces of 7 micron particles go thru the NEW filter. After passing thru the first element, 40 of them will be left. Those 40 now pass thru the second element. After they are filtered at a 60% efficiency rating, only 16 will be left to enter the combustion process, thus giving the new filter a 16% efficiency rating (ON EDIT: actually 16% of the particles make it into the combustion chamber - thus the filter would be 84% efficient now as opposed to 60% efficient as was the OLD one).

Am I off base????

Rob

I was talking with and engineer that is in the know about the Duramax filters. The original filters were 5-7 micron. The new is 2 micron. He says the new ones are a lot better.

Will have the new ones in stock in a couple of days.

Greg

2 microns would be awsome.

2 microns would be awsome.IIRC, 2 microns was the claim for the old filter. It tested far from 2 microns in our tests. SPICER

I asked at a Baldwin dealer, and they said 5 microns, for their fuel filter. Than Eric (Dmaxallitech) said more like 7 microns.

If they can get the rating down to a real 2 micron rating.... :)

I sent Mark Meddock from Oilguard an Email yesterday. I asked him about the questions in my last post. Mark called me back today and in a nutshell here is what Racor said........We won't publish the real numbers on the new filter because it is GM's data according to GM specs. We just make them. The new filter is designed to have better capacity AND efficiency.

When Mark asked what the new efficiency is, he was told "2 micron absolute". Mark commented that this is the same efficiency as was claimed for the old filter. If the new one is designed to have better efficiency than the old filter, why are they both 2 micron? At this the Racor rep, according to Mark, became noticibly annoyed. Mark knew it was going nowhere, so that was the end of the conversation.

Maybe someone will test it against the old filter. It won't be me. I have a Mega filter and that is fine with me. I would prefer the new design over the old and will wait to change the filter until I get one in my hands. The flow restriction will be interesting to see, though. It seems to me that there MUST be more vacuum than tha old filter. COULD create an issue with outgassing. SPICER

My cause the LP pump to cavitate also. :D Later! Frank

I just installed one on my truck(I was due anyhow)and in anticipation of a long run to Florida and back in 6 weeks.

Anyhow the old filter was supposed to be good, but it wasn't according to members tests. Only GM/Bosch/Isuzu know why injectors have been failing. So far the 'only' fix has been a new redesigned filter. Maybe they're drawing at straws, maybe it's a real fix to a real problem.

Is it any better? Who knows, we're only being given this one choice until something else changes anyhow.

I eagerly await some of the fuel samples that I'm sure some people will do in the near future.

................ The same 100 pieces of 7 micron particles go thru the NEW filter. After passing thru the first element, 40 of them will be left. Those 40 now pass thru the second element. After they are filtered at a 60% efficiency rating, only 16 will be left to enter the combustion process, thus giving the new filter a 16% efficiency rating.

Am I off base????

Rob
Wouldn't that be 84% efficiency? (100-16=84)

Good to see that Racor re-invented the 2 micron filter.... :rolleyes:

Wouldn't that be 84% efficiency? (100-16=84)

Yes it would! Thanks....and I've corrected the original post!

So if the new double pleated filter is more efficient, does that mean the change interval will be shorter?

according to GM(and what I've heard) the interval is still the same. A few thousand miles will determine that though