What's the best way to extend the shocks after the torsion crank? I have oem size Bilsteins. Do they make a shock 1 1/2" longer?

Get shock extenders from Cognito Motor Sports for the front shocks, that would be the cheapest way.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18972

or washers on the top and make a spacer for the bottom bracket

One more time from another thread, whether cranking the bars or green keys:

"Shocks should be the same length. The amount of suspension travel will not be changed with the green keys. Still the same top out stop and bottom out stop. The keys will only change the settling (static?) position of the truck within that range, in this case higher. You would have more compression travel and less extension travel, but the bottom stop and top stop are still at the same point. You don't want to put in a different shock where the shock itself is limiting the top or bottom stop."

Done

Steve

What steve said. I measured and fully stroked my suspension when I changed to the Bilsteins. They do not hinder travel. After market Control Arms might have more travel and thus need longer stroke shokes, but not the stockers.

Ditto. Frank

One more time from another thread, whether cranking the bars or green keys:

"Shocks should be the same length. The amount of suspension travel will not be changed with the green keys. Still the same top out stop and bottom out stop. The keys will only change the settling (static?) position of the truck within that range, in this case higher. You would have more compression travel and less extension travel, but the bottom stop and top stop are still at the same point. You don't want to put in a different shock where the shock itself is limiting the top or bottom stop."

Done

Steve
So if I understand this correctly, after cranking my torsion bars I don't need a different shock... OK. Will shortening the Bilstein (with spacers) make the ride better? How? By getting the shock back in the middle of the stroke?

I've seen this type of question several times. If the truck comes down and bottoms out with how many pounds of truck plus the shock load of suddenly bottoming all that weight, you risk busting the shock, the mounts, or bending the piston rod. Topping out is not good either, but bottoming has the potential to be much worse. I only bring it up because I don't want to see someone bust something on there truck.

Steve

P.S. Sorry TraceF. To answer your question, no, do not shorten the shocks. If you do, the shock can top out or bottom out.

Here is what is happening to my shocks. About every 6 months I have to get new front shock because they top out during full extension and a leak starts at the top of the shock and all the fluid leaks outs.

i have the green keys with and rs9000x shocks, have had for almost two years and several off road excursions while hunting, towing. no abuse and easy as possible on some really rough "roads" and have never had a problem. no tierods, shock extenders and have used the suspension not just for highway driving. I run 35" bfgs and a heavier than stock front bumper, not a street queen by any means. I do not race (hard) or often, if you drive responsibly this setup should be fine for normal duty and exceed the ride/longevitity of the stock setup.

I would be worried with shimming the shocks, especially with washers as the tiny shock bolt on top was not designed to carry the added load. that shock should be bolted right up against the shock body. my .02 from seeing this setup, I would not carry my family in such an unsafe setup.

I would be worried with shimming the shocks, especially with washers as the tiny shock bolt on top was not designed to carry the added load. that shock should be bolted right up against the shock body. my .02 from seeing this setup, I would not carry my family in such an unsafe setup.[/QUOTE]

I have put thousands of miles on with this setup with my family with me most of the time and see nothing unsafe about it

on edit: inmho this set-up is safer than shock extentions

To answer your question, no, do not shorten the shocks. If you do, the shock can top out or bottom out.I have stock size Bilsteins. If I crank the torsion bars, the shocks are hyper-extended. I understand travel is not altered, just ride height. The question is do the shocks work as well when they are extended as they would if they were in the original position they were engineered to work? :confused:

I put a 1" spacer below the bottom mount. Almost 30K and no problems. Still running originals at 43K miles.

TraceF: I see what you are asking. I don't know if the valving in the shock changes at different parts of it's travel or not. I would think not though. If it does change at all I would expect it would change due to speed of compression or extension, not because of where it's at within it's travel. Maybe someone can elaborate on this.

Steve

There is definitly a difference in the area in which the shock operates with the truck "lifted" whether using the green keys or cranking the stock keys. Either way, the distance between sprung (frame,body,engine,trans,etc..) & unsprung (wheels,tires,rear diff,lower control arms) areas on the vehicle (exactly where the shocks operate) is extended.
The difference between the ground & unsprung area, ie-ground clearance, remains the same (that aspect changes with tire size).
If height/distance/clearance is extended (after lift), how could travel not also be extended?
To state otherwise is just plain ridiculous.

Just measure the distance (at rest) between the upper & lower mount points before you "lift" the truck, then measure after, the difference is what you should use in shim thickness (washers at the top of the shock work fine). It's usually not much, for 2" of lift on my vehicle, to make sure the piston in the shock remained "centered at rest", I added 3/4" of washers (that was the measured difference from before the lift to after). NEVER add to the bottom of the shock, since you haven't raised the height of the rebound bumper, if the vehicle ever did "bottom out" to this stop it may crush the valving in the shock (if it were raised).

Most shocks for a particular application look the same, however, some manufacterers shocks will fit multiple applications & some will not. This is largely due to some makers applying longer stroke dimensions than others, but without exact internal specs, how do you know for sure if the ones you have will cover the additional distance? How can you be certain that the brand you bought will operate properly within the clearance differences you've added? you can either take a chance & just reinstall them as is, or you can play it safe, take your measurement & shim them. Mine might very well have been fine without any shimming, but I really didn't want to take that chance. You have the info, the choice is yours.

Have a nice day ;)

PS-Shock piston shafts are single-piece hardened steel all the way to the top of the threading, the shaft is not substantially weakened (or rendered unsafe) by minor shimming with the correct diameter washer/spacer.

There is definitly a difference in the area in which the shock operates with the truck "lifted" whether using the green keys or cranking the stock keys. Either way, the distance between sprung (frame,body,engine,trans,etc..) & unsprung (wheels,tires,rear diff,lower control arms) areas on the vehicle (exactly where the shocks operate) is extended.
The difference between the ground & unsprung area, ie-ground clearance, remains the same (that aspect changes with tire size).
If height/distance/clearance is extended (after lift), how could travel not also be extended?
To state otherwise is just plain ridiculous.

Just measure the distance (at rest) between the upper & lower mount points before you "lift" the truck, then measure after, the difference is what you should use in shim thickness (washers at the top of the shock work fine). It's usually not much, for 2" of lift on my vehicle, to make sure the piston in the shock remained "centered at rest", I added 3/4" of washers (that was the measured difference from before the lift to after). NEVER add to the bottom of the shock, since you haven't raised the height of the rebound bumper, if the vehicle ever did "bottom out" to this stop it may crush the valving in the shock (if it were raised).

Most shocks for a particular application look the same, however, some manufacterers shocks will fit multiple applications & some will not. This is largely due to some makers applying longer stroke dimensions than others, but without exact internal specs, how do you know for sure if the ones you have will cover the additional distance? How can you be certain that the brand you bought will operate properly within the clearance differences you've added? you can either take a chance & just reinstall them as is, or you can play it safe, take your measurement & shim them. Mine might very well have been fine without any shimming, but I really didn't want to take that chance. You have the info, the choice is yours.

Have a nice day ;)

PS-Shock piston shafts are single-piece hardened steel all the way to the top of the threading, the shaft is not substantially weakened (or rendered unsafe) by minor shimming with the correct diameter washer/spacer.
OK- what size washers?

I believe most shocks have 3/8" diameter shafts, in which case a few 3/8" (flat) washers should do. They go on the top of the shaft, underneath the washer/rubber bushing assembly. Remember to measure & just put what's necesscary.

OK, I give up.

Steve

Loki_nine, good info!

I'm putting 325/60/18's (33.4inches tall) on my truck next week when my wheels and tires arrive. I'm going to use approx. 3/4" of washers under the front shocks and I'm going to give a detailed analysis of what I find out (pictures and comments).

I'm going to try to get away with only turning up my torsion bars 1 1/2" and I plan to take pictures of all the fenderwell modifications necessary for everything to clear.

Here is what is happening to my shocks. About every 6 months I have to get new front shock because they top out during full extension and a leak starts at the top of the shock and all the fluid leaks outs.
I'd say that is more a product of Rancho's seal quality.

In a stock Dmax suspension (irregardless of keys used) the shock does limit drop out just pior to contact with the mechanical stop of the upper a-arm. Adding a spacer below the hardware stack will allow for increased drop out, but isn't necessary or adviseable.

If height/distance/clearance is extended (after lift), how could travel not also be extended?
To state otherwise is just plain ridiculous.

Forgive me if I missed something here, but travel is not increased when the green key lift is installed. It is simply altering the point at which the vehicle rests. The mechanical stops on the frame or the shock absorber extended length remain the limit for full extension, and the bump stop or shock absorber compressed length remain the limit for full compression. In bioth cases, it's a matter of which occurs first.





NEVER add to the bottom of the shock, since you haven't raised the height of the rebound bumper, if the vehicle ever did "bottom out" to this stop it may crush the valving in the shock (if it were raised).



Isn't this like the tire that is flat only on the bottom? By shimming the hardware on the shaft you are pushing the piston deeper in the bore when at rest etc. If you were to somehow extend the bottom of the shock, you'd push the body upwards and create the same effect as shimming the hardware.

I THINK this makes sense...

Kennedy, your correct. By adding the green keys your not changing your wheel travel, your simply adjusting where the truck sits in its factory range of travel.

By adding spacers to the shocks (on the top or bottom... and assuming you've cranked your torsion bars) your effectively compressing the shock back closer to a factory setting (back into the middle of the shocks range) when the truck is at rest.

Since it appears the shock is limiting downward travel, by adding spacers to the top or bottom of the shock, your increasing your downward travel. Whether this has any negative effect on the steering system or your joints... I don't know.

I intend to start with the 3/4" of washers and see where my downward travel is and then adjust accordingly.

Both Kennedy and American Muscle are correct. One thing to point out is that by shimming the shocks, either top or bottom, you will correct the full extension bottoming problem. However, now the shock will fully compress at a shorter point. So now instead of the shock limiting the downtravel, the shock will limit the upward travel of the suspension. Don't know if the upper stop is hit first or the shock hit first. Granted, under normal on road conditions with the bars cranked or green keys, you are less likey to hit the upper stop than the lower, but it is worth throwing it out.

So the ideal solution is a longer travel shock that provides travel and proper dampening through the entire cycle range of the suspension (between the stops). Apparently Off Road Unlimited has found a set of bilsteins that accomplishes this. They would not give me the PN, but they have them in stock for $80.00 each.

Guys look into Edelbrocks, I have their Xtreme travels that are spec'd for a H2 and they are longer than stock HD ones. maybe look into some Bilstiens that are made for a H2, dunno, it works for me.

8.1

Since the shocks mount half way between the wheel and the pivot point of the a-arms they only get extended half as much as the height you add. So if you add 2" of lift then you need 1" spacer at the top or 1/2" at the top and bottom.

The OEM thick washers acn be separated from the rubbers and used as spacers. Bilstein also has a 1/2" spacer, but it is really no better than a stack of washers. It is basically the same spacer that the boot is attached to.

Now one thing for all to consider. The OEM suspension was NOT designed to opearte at the near full extension height. The bump steer and scrub get pretty excessive by the look of things...

i dunno about anyone else but i'm completely confused. No if i'm usign a plow would i have to use the space and if not would the shocks be damaged by the weight of the plow? Any help? Me and my friend are about to buy the green keys. he just ordered the tool from matco. So we will be doin his truck as a guinea pig. But i'm lookin into all the stuff that is needed and this thread is confusing. It's one person sayin one thing and another person sayin somethin diffrent.

Well, I'm putting a set of greenies on this weekend(if I get them in time). For the time being I'm just using the washer method to get me by for a few weeks. But I will get a pair of shocks for the front eventually. I see the washer method as being temporary, but I don't think I'd leave it like that though. Most people would prefer different shocks over factory anyways, may as well fork out some cash

well i was just lookin around and i came across shocks from pro-comp supposly work for 0-1" of lift. I dunno someone give your thoughts i dunno if anyone has came across these. But as an added bonus they are adjustable too. And buy 3 get 1 free. They are pro comp mx-6's.

Green keys are a joke

hoot I've read a number of posts from you which claim that green keys are a 'joke' as you put it in this thread. Regardless of whether you think they work or not they cost me a whoppin' $25 form the local parts dealer and my truck is riding 1.5"-2" higher with plenty of adjustment left. The truck rides firmer as expected...whether it rides better cause of the green keys I don't know. Many others have run both and claim the green keys offer a better ride. Common sense may tell you there is no difference but we all have a 'seat of the pants' meter. You enjoy your coil spacers and we'll enjoy our magical green keys.

hoot I've read a number of posts from you which claim that green keys are a 'joke' as you put it in this thread. Regardless of whether you think they work or not they cost me a whoppin' $25 form the local parts dealer and my truck is riding 1.5"-2" higher with plenty of adjustment left. The truck rides firmer as expected...whether it rides better cause of the green keys I don't know. Many others have run both and claim the green keys offer a better ride. Common sense may tell you there is no difference but we all have a 'seat of the pants' meter. You enjoy your coil spacers and we'll enjoy our magical green keys.


Common sense is looking at the travel of the stock control arms.

Common sense tells me that those control arms have alot more travel than the CV joints which is the bigger concern. Also the lower shock mount moves further away as the torsion bars are loaded more therefor a longer shock is desirable. In addition the factory shocks can top/bottom out so once again a longer shock is desirable. It's all pretty simple when you have a little common sense. Enjoy your Dodge!

No matter if you use blue purple or chartues keys.... your stop to stop is the same.

BTW... no comparison to the Dodge SFA design. I have more travel than I know what to do with, especially now with the longer shocks and springs.

The part number for the increased length Bilstiens that some companys sell for a small lift of 1 or 2" is BE5-6140-H0 it is a universal stem/eye mount that is appro. 2"s longer than our stock bilstiens. It is also the shock that comes in the oru green key kit as far as I know. We can also get these shocks for anyone if they want them. John

Here's the stats on the shocks John just described:

<TABLE height=154 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=650 align=left border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top height=22>Part #
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Travel
</TD><TD height=22>Description
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Valving
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Resevoir
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Ext. Length
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Col. Length
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Shaft Dia.
</TD><TD align=middle height=22>Mounting
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>BE5-6140-H0</TD><TD align=middle>6.65</TD><TD>5100 Off-Road</TD><TD align=middle>366/240</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>18.42</TD><TD align=middle>11.77</TD><TD align=middle>14mm</TD><TD align=middle>stem/eye</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>











Couldn't find info on the stock replacements.

Tom http://dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=107

Correct...longer shocks allow you to go from stop to stop and let the bumpstops be the limiting factor not the shocks. Once again enjoy your Censored! BTW no body was comparing it to your SFA...please don't get me started on the 'all mighty' sfa...I'm not going to take this any further. You've been enlightened by a number of people on numerous occassions and you still insist that you are correct.

John are you now able to get those Bilsteins? I have been looking all over since we last talked and supposedly I have a set coming within the next day or 2 but everyone else I've tried can't seem to get any. For anyone else interested those are the shocks I am planning or running. Funning thing was I found them before I even knew ORU was using them. According to Bilstein they were designed to a Ford Superduty application. The valving of these shocks is close to the OE Bilstein valving...366/240 vs 380/119 respectively...so they should work perfectly with the increased spring rate of the torsion bars.

Correct...longer shocks allow you to go from stop to stop and let the bumpstops be the limiting factor not the shocks. Once again enjoy your Censored! BTW no body was comparing it to your SFA...please don't get me started on the 'all mighty' sfa...what a crock!

All Mighty :ro)

I don't think any shox were intended to be used as travel limiters. I certainly hope no OEM designed their stop-to-stop with one of the stops being the shock travel limit.

With that said, I wish to assume GM spec'd a shock that allows full stop to stop travel without hitting shock limits.

With that said, cranking bars and/or reindexing the T-bars with keys should never allow a shock to bottom or top out. The hard limits should not let that happen.

With that said, stock shocks should work unless you change the hard limits.

3500dmax, They are still on national backorder, but with enough phone calls a person could get some. The key word being enough phone calls, and how much is a persons time worth? And in the end, would they be worth the dollars spent to get them. There would be no discounts in order to get them fur sure. As I believe you have found out. I was fur sure you would of got them by now. John

Wonder why there is so much trouble getting them? They have been in that backorder status for a year or so.

I moved my lower mounts on my A-arms inward and up. Took some scrap steel and about an hour. Seems to ride better (less thunking) on the logging roads. Haven't felt a dampening problem. The newer Dodges ride way better stock on the rough roads. OH OH! Thanx Geo.

The Yellow Bilsteins that were designed for that application are still the best choice...

The newer Dodges ride way better stock on the rough roads. OH OH! Thanx Geo.

Geo they even ride a whole lot better with the T-Rex/Kore systems.

...In a stock Dmax suspension (irregardless of keys used) the shock does limit drop out just pior to contact with the mechanical stop of the upper a-arm. Adding a spacer below the hardware stack will allow for increased drop out, but isn't necessary or adviseable.
I installed my new Bilstein shocks a couple of weeks ago using my buddy's lift at his shop. With the front axles at full droop, I could not get the top nut on the shock to thread onto the shaft as not enough thread was visible above the top bushing. I ended up lowering the truck back down off the lift to allow the weight of the front end to push the axles up and let me thread the nuts on and tighten down things properly. It appears that the shock length will limit full downward travel, correct? Or was that simply due to the thickness of the uncompressed bushing before I could thread and crank down that top nut?

Thanks in advance,

Bud

I installed my new Bilstein shocks a couple of weeks ago using my buddy's lift at his shop. With the front axles at full droop, I could not get the top nut on the shock to thread onto the shaft as not enough thread was visible above the top bushing. I ended up lowering the truck back down off the lift to allow the weight of the front end to push the axles up and let me thread the nuts on and tighten down things properly. It appears that the shock length will limit full downward travel, correct? Or was that simply due to the thickness of the uncompressed bushing before I could thread and crank down that top nut?

Thanks in advance,

Bud
you are right, the shock does limit the full downward travel.

you are right, the shock does limit the full downward travel.
Thanks for the reply. The OEM shocks did not have this limit when I took them off. Will this cause a problem with the Bilstein shocks if they are serving as the downward travel limiter? I'm concerning about having to replace shocks when I drop the tires down into a hole offroad, or when I jack up the front end of the truck.

I appreciate your comments.

Bud

I wonder if there was a change in the geometry of the 2004's because the short stock shock thing that was the rule in the past doesn't appear the same now. I too, found the aftermarket shocks shorter than the stock shocks (even though I was assured that they were 1" longer,Rancho junk, only thing available at the time). Thanx Geo.

This has been done to death, many times over many years. All "oem" length shocks are the downward travel limit, stock or bilstein. Cranking the torsion bars bring the shock closer to the extension limit, at about 3" of lift, you are AT the extension limit of the shock. That's a bad thing. Just jack it up and see for yourselves, it's easy to see.

If you are always replacing shocks (bassin) with a lifted vehicle and no shock extensions, simple. Topout failure. I'd bet on it, and bilstein has reported torsion lifting as the cause for them. The same reason the ride sucks. There is no extension dampening left

You HAVE to use a shock extension to restore ride quality. From the shock, you need 4" of compression and about 3" of extension to avoid topout and preserve the ride.

If you crank in over 2" (7-8 turns), alignment cannot be brought back to spec, something to consider.

I have about 2" now, with 1 1/2" of shock shim and extension, and the ride is great. Without the spacers/washer shims, I could not even keep my foot on the gas peddle, or have a conversation. It is the difference.

Now, the extension travel limit hard stop coincides with the shock extension limit. So shimming the shock more than 1.5" has no real justification. And cranking over 2", regardless of what you do to the rest of the IFS, will degrade ride quality (worse the higher you go), increase the chances of killing the shocks, and alignment is not possible...

Originally Posted by Kennedy

Forgive me if I missed something here, but travel is not increased when the green key lift is installed. It is simply altering the point at which the vehicle rests. The mechanical stops on the frame or the shock absorber extended length remain the limit for full extension, and the bump stop or shock absorber compressed length remain the limit for full compression. In bioth cases, it's a matter of which occurs first.


The travel is definitly increased between sprung (the frame/body) & unsprung (wheels/tires/differential) areas (when using the green keys), which is where the shocks operate (to control spring oscilation)
With the ground representing zero, for arguments sake lets say a stock vehicles fenderwell sits 40" above zero, if we increase that rise/travel to 42"-without altering unsprung clearances (tires,wheels,etc..), were did the additional rise/travel come from? where is the dimension located that changed to affect the additional rise? (if not as I indicated previously)
I'll tell you where (& so will anyone else here who's done alignments for any length of time), between sprung & unsprung weight-ie spring installed height, again-where the shocks perform their job.

After 20+ years of dealing with these issues in the "trenches", I stand by my complete original statement.

Thanks for the reply. The OEM shocks did not have this limit when I took them off. Will this cause a problem with the Bilstein shocks if they are serving as the downward travel limiter? I'm concerning about having to replace shocks when I drop the tires down into a hole offroad, or when I jack up the front end of the truck.

I appreciate your comments.

Bud
Most people remove the upper hardware before lifting, then when they go to put it back together, the suspension is drooped to the mechanical stop.

Loki nine,

I'm not going to argue this all day. Position in the range of travel is increased by cranking the bars/keys. Downward travel of the chassis is increased, but upward travel is decreased.

In other words the amount of compression travel is increased, but the amount of extension travel is decreased. You still hit the same mechanical stops...

Roger that.

I really can not see why this is so hard for some to understand. I think JK's reply above is about as simple as can be made. Better than I tried to explain it way back at the begining of the thread. Per JK: "In other words the amount of compression travel is increased, but the amount of extension travel is decreased. You still hit the same mechanical stops..."

Steve

Loki nine,

I'm not going to argue this all day. Position in the range of travel is increased by cranking the bars/keys. Downward travel of the chassis is increased, but upward travel is decreased.

In other words the amount of compression travel is increased, but the amount of extension travel is decreased. You still hit the same mechanical stops...Kennedy,
You have made my point exactly.
I have never seen a shock that extends to the full range of any suspension it was designed for (ie-when you disconnect a shock, the suspension always hangs down further than it would if the shock were installed)
The reason for this is that under normal vehicle operating conditions it is not intended (by design) for the suspension to extend to it's maximum area of operation-ie-wheels off the ground (it's not an aircraft!), however, it is not uncommon for a vehicle to "bottom out" during normal use for a variety of reasons that are expected to occur everyday.

The fact that there are mechanical limits to suspension travel was never at issue (for me anyway).

So in order to maintain the "intended area of operation" in regards to shock absorber internal piston placement (for vehicles involved in normal everyday use), I will continue to recommend slightly shimming the top of the shock when increasing lift via the green keys.
-I have seen many "4 wheelers" destroy shocks (& sometimes mounts) due to "suspension overtravel"-
Hope this clears things up.

BTW-I fail to see how responding to a disagreement you had with the single post that I contributed to this thread can be construed as "arguing"??

Loki, are you afraid that the shock will bottom out if overcompressed due to shimming? Maybe a valid concern. Have you tested this by measuring, or seen the "oem" length shock suffer a bottom out on THIS truck?

Does anyone know the eye to eye measurement of the compressed bilstein?

Michael, I too would be interested to know....

Starting to think shimming the bottom mount of the Bilsteins was not a good idea, not that I have any problems associated with it. I just wish someone could give definitive answer on what to do.

Thanks guys....

Tom http://dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=107

I guess I could measure the oem's in my garage. But I'd like to know about the bilsteins

What about those that strap on a plow for the winter? The added weight lowers the front, same as turning the torsion bolts out. So now there trucks ride lower in the front. Do they need different length shocks for the winter? I'm not trying to flame anyone, just looking at it from another point of view.

Steve

What about those that strap on a plow for the winter? The added weight lowers the front, same as turning the torsion bolts out. So now there trucks ride lower in the front. Do they need different length shocks for the winter? I'm not trying to flame anyone, just looking at it from another point of view.

Steve


Exactly my point.

For all those who asked,
I believe that I described how to measure for proper clearance in my first post.

I have never seen a properly installed-correct application-shock absorber, damaged via compression without other problems existing-such as missing or crushed rebound bumpers, worn or missing control arm bushings, ect... (unless overshimmed or shimmed from below). I have seen damage to shocks (most completely pulled apart) & broken mounts from "overtravel" many times, & it is usually from stock shocks in lifted 4-bys where no compensation for the "area of expected operation" is provided for.

If people don't want to shim shocks, that's fine. I personally prefer to position shocks so they are operating in the range (ie-piston in shock centered to the application regarding designed suspension travel) they were generally intented to-for my customers, in my experience there seems to be less (so far none) comebacks this way.
But as always, the choice is yours.

It does make sense, Loki, that total travel is increased, only when a longer shock is used (or spacers are used). As Kennedy pointed out, and as most of us acknowledge, the shock limits extension. Longer shock, more extension (travel). If you lengthen the shock length 2", then the hard stop limits extension. And shimming is something you must do in the course of torsion lifting to preserve RQ and front end. The language of things is messing things up.

With all that said, I'm not a mechanic so I'm still a little confused with the verbage, but for the suspension pros replying to this thread pretend that a customer(me) is asking you this question. Does one need longer shocks when cranking Tbars 1-2 inches or when using green keys? Thanks.

LA DMAX

No you do not need longer shocks.

Not To Argue But Speaking From Personal Experience When Going Over Big Speed Bumps The Suspension Did Not Have Enough Down Travel Hence The Wheels Loosing Contact With The Road.....i Spaced My Shock Down And All Was Solved With That Issue.....this Is My Experience And Maybe It Dont Make Sense But It Did Help!

Hoot, are you just trying to be controversial?

hdd-max is EXACTLY correct. Hoot must be saying you can use the existing shocks if you don't mind using shims and spacers.

look here (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9665&highlight=washers)

Yes you do need longer travel shocks stock or cranked. thanx geo.

I would top the shocks out with 3 full turns on the bars, so I put in 3/4" on top of the shock and have had no problems sence. put on plow and don't have any problems with bottoming out either.

Actually, you do not need longer shocks. Remember, Kennedy was correct in stating that hard limits regard minimum & maximum suspension travel do not change by simply adjusting torsion bar tension (with or without green keys).

I am only interested in maintaining the correct alignment of the shocks (in regards to positioning the shocks piston more towards the manufacturers intended area of operation). I find the ride quality to be improved in this manner, & I am only talking about a slight shimming here (maybe a 1/2" of shimming for 2" of height).
If you fully compress a shock by hand before install, I am sure you will find it compresses far beyond anything the suspension is capable of doing, so damage from bottoming out while slightly shimmed is nil. However, I have found that suspensions operating above stock tend to "overtravel" more frequently (were most damage I've seen occurs).
So to err on the side of caution (& improve ride quality), I shim the shocks slightly.

But it is not absolutley necessary to shim

Actually, you do not need longer shocks. ... I find the ride quality to be improved in this manner, & I am only talking about a slight shimming here (maybe a 1/2" of shimming for 2" of height).


Loki, you are saying that it is ok to lose 1.5" of wheel downtravel.

1/2" of shock trimming is not 1/2" of wheel travel, given the geometry, looks like about 3/4" of wheel travel. I would say, for a 2" torsion lift, shimming the shock 1 to 1.5" would get you the same wheel downtravel. But your point is well recieved I think

Hoot, sorry. I just misinterpreted your meaning.

Just pointing out, some of you guys are putting 3+ inches on her. The more you crank the more you have to shim and space. Loki is making a very good point, the geometry requires less shimming than actual height change due to cranking.

1/2" of shock trimming is not 1/2" of wheel travel, given the geometry, looks like about 3/4" of wheel travel. I would say, for a 2" torsion lift, shimming the shock 1 to 1.5" would get you the same wheel downtravel. But your point is well recieved I thinkThe shocks do not sit at the wheel itself, you cannot equate wheel travel to shock travel in this manner. The distance differences between the point on the lower control arm & the frame mount to which the shock attaches, increases substantial less then you have indicated (guessed?), & is not in almost direct proportion to the amount of clearance increase between the tire & fender (which is what most people are concerned with-or looking at).
As my first post in this thread indicated, measure before & after lift at shock mount points & you will get your difference, shim slightly less that the actual lifted dimension (measured at the shock mounts) & your good to go.

All we are doing is looking to maintain an optimum "center" on the shock piston for ride quality.

Hope this clears things up.

So if I have my T-Bars cranked say 2in., and want to upgrade shocks...should I buy slightly longer travel shocks, or the stock replacements, and shim? I was looking at the Rancho 9000x shocks, but now I am confused. Sorry if I am asking something twice. Just trying to get a definite answer. Keep in mind I might lower my T-bars back to stock or lower for racing.:D

Don't apologize, this is a confusing thread.

I would say buy "oem" length shocks. If 2" is you max goal, the shim them to your hearts content. I say shim an inch and a half, others are suggesting that much is not necessary. Almost everyone agrees you must shim some. You can play. The oem bilsteins are cheap, and valved vehicle specific, so they make good front shocks.