Just got off the phone with Justin, top notch guy, leveling kit and pitman/idler arm upgrade will be on their way tomorrow. So if anyone with an HD is looking for another option, besides "green" keys, in leveling their truck I will have first hand info. very soon. I'll try to snap a few pics of the install process, let the waiting game begin....I'll be chasing every brown truck in my neighborhood.
The leveling kit, after researching it and talking to Justin, it is much more than a glorified "green" key kit. You get new tubular uca's, shock extensions, bolt in ball joints, and full instructions on front suspension set-up for proper travel. Time will tell. This kit levels out your truck "without" cranking your torsion bars.

8.1):h

How much?

Leveling kit retails for $475, and idler/pitman kit retails for $200.

They have a website?
I can't find it.

Cognitio Motorsports (http://www.cognitomotorsports.com/)

John

justin is a good guy and that idler/pitman kit is super beefy......

I want to see this setup!

Help me out with the logic on this. I cranked my torsion bars 73k miles ago to level my truck and then threw on Bilsteins. Runs great, one alignment after the crank only, tire wear perfect, I got 65k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX and then sold them for $200. I have to admit I don't know much about this, I have no idea what "green keys" are. :o

Why would I want or need this kit instead of the "green keys" and what's wrong with what I did? My truck seems to be driving fine.

Just got off the phone with Justin, top notch guy, leveling kit and pitman/idler arm upgrade will be on their way tomorrow. So if anyone with an HD is looking for another option, besides "green" keys, in leveling their truck I will have first hand info. very soon. I'll try to snap a few pics of the install process, let the waiting game begin....I'll be chasing every brown truck in my neighborhood.
The leveling kit, after researching it and talking to Justin, it is much more than a glorified "green" key kit. You get new tubular uca's, shock extensions, bolt in ball joints, and full instructions on front suspension set-up for proper travel. Time will tell. This kit levels out your truck "without" cranking your torsion bars.

8.1):h

The web site I saw didn't show a "Leveling Kit" that I could find. The 10" to 12" lift they show is a little more than I need. Did I miss something???

I just saw your pics, it looks good to me

Yeah, the leveling kit is not on his website. A simple phone call will answer all your questions, Justin know the GM IFS inside-out and backwards...I am sure that this kit will do as advertised...I will keep all posted.

8.1

475 ? wow, my green keys were $40 shipped and no problem after 15K miles. I dont need any of the other parts, sounds very expensive. I would throw in a few hundred more bucks and get the rancho 4" lift IMO

This kit also allows the use of dual front shocks mounted from the new uca to a dual shock hoop, eliminating the need for a shock in the factory location, therefore you can get the proper length shocks with no worries of topping them out.

8.1

Looking forward to seeing some pics.

replacing the keys will not increase travel, only limit it to the upper region therefore a longer shock is not needed. try measuring full droop (suspend the front end unloading all the weight) before and after cranking. do this without a shock as well. measure the heights, and also the length of the shock installed/removed.

Also, look above and below the A arms, there is a definite limit the suspension will travel.

not knocking the kit, albeit the price. the double shocks might be nice, but you wont correct lengths as the travel remains the same, in the upper range of travel....

edited for spelling...

I disagree with this logic. I can not get it in my head that longer shocks are not needed. If longer shocks are not needed with keys or cranked trucks then the shock needs to be lowered, thus creating the need for washers or whatever on top of the stock shock.

i have done the measurements I stated above, my rancho rs9000xs were well within the full travel of the suspension in either direction. did not compare my ranchos to the stock shocks, so if OEM are still used I have no idea.

Stock shocks allowed full travel of the suspension. Cranking the keys does not change the travel, just where you are starting from within that travel.

An aftermarket component like the upper A arm might allow more travel. I don' t know. But this is totally different than just cranking the rods.

The kit with the new uca does change the travel some...in essence its sort of like doing a ball joint flip that is common in OBS GM's, it relocates the upper ball joint, therefore relocating the front suspension.
As far as stock measurement I also did this, with shock hooked up my '01 would not come close to the upper droop stop, once I removed the shock it would. I currently run Edelbrock Xtreme travel shock that are spec'd for a H2, they are roughly 1 inch longer than my stock shocks, and now allow full travel...It maybe different on the newer trucks. A shock extension may be in order for green keys just to get the shock in the middle of its stroke, which will make it perform better than if it was towards its limits.

As far as stock measurement I also did this, with shock hooked up my '01 would not come close to the upper droop stop, once I removed the shock it would.
I agree. On both my 2500s and the factory shocks were too short to completely cycle the suspension. The 9000s fixed the problem..........

Well, got the kit in heres a couple pics.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/374975_65_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/374975_63_full.jpg

idler/pitman arm upgrade/stiffener

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/374975_64_full.jpg

Well, stop screwing off and put it in already....geeze...

Ox

Well, stop screwing off and put it in already....geeze...

Ox
Did you happen to see that its raining outside?? ):h

Doing the kit would require taking the gasser from storage to the shop....not happening until the weather breaks.

8.1:cool:

I forgot most truck in CT melt in the rain...sorry my bad...

That's gona leave a mark..........................

Let us know how the install goes and what you settle on as far as the shocks.

Take some measurements before and after to show what kind of lift you get up front.

That could be the ticket for those who want a little lift without the rollerskate look the Rancho system provides.

In looking at those pictures the main feature of the kit is to relocate the uper ball joint. I'm confused as to how this would be an alternative to green keys? I see the pitman/idler arm assembly, the new ball joints and shock spacers what are the other parts? Can you scan and post the instructions for our reading pleasure please!

Sorry, no access to a scanner. I'm going to try to get this kit on next week...I plan on documenting it with pics and my experience on how it works when I get done.

In looking at those pictures the main feature of the kit is to relocate the uper ball joint. I'm confused as to how this would be an alternative to green keys? I see the pitman/idler arm assembly, the new ball joints and shock spacers what are the other parts? Can you scan and post the instructions for our reading pleasure please!
It brings the knuckle back into factory specs so a proper alignment can be obtained. In addition, it changes the angle of the upper and lower ball joints to increase longevity. I also believe it will restore a more favorable balance in travel as opposed to the green keys.

I think this kit in conjuntion with the green keys would be the way to go................. Actually I am surprised it does not come with a new T-bar key to maximize its potential :confused:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/374975_63_full.jpg
I can not see these pic, all I get is a box with a red x in it.

I can not see these pic, all I get is a box with a red x in it.Me to.:confused:

For some reason i see them now.

I am always looking at aftermarket stuff and I am a little confused by this set up. I cranked up my torsion bars along time ago to level my 3500. I took it down to the shop, we aligned the truck to meet specs easily and without issue. I already had Rancho shocks on the truck. I have not noticed any weird steering issues, bump steer, suspension travel or tire wear that would warrant me to need to spend the money on this kit. It appears to be an awful lot of work with no real ROI. Kit looks well made nevertheless. Now if some company would make a very nice 2"(maybe 3") lift kit I would buy that in a heartbeat. Tired of all these 10-12" lifts. I use my truck and do not want it that high. Have you ever load debris into a truck with a 10" lift kit?

Just my nickel's worth

I am always looking at aftermarket stuff and I am a little confused by this set up. I cranked up my torsion bars along time ago to level my 3500. I took it down to the shop, we aligned the truck to meet specs easily and without issue. I already had Rancho shocks on the truck. I have not noticed any weird steering issues, bump steer, suspension travel or tire wear that would warrant me to need to spend the money on this kit. It appears to be an awful lot of work with no real ROI. Kit looks well made nevertheless. Now if some company would make a very nice 2"(maybe 3") lift kit I would buy that in a heartbeat. Tired of all these 10-12" lifts. I use my truck and do not want it that high. Have you ever load debris into a truck with a 10" lift kit?

Just my nickel's worth
This kit should give you 2"-3" of front end lift with the green keys. A block, add-a-leaf or air bag will have to be used to level the rear.

To raise your truck 2*-3" you do not need a full blown kit like the 4" or larger kits. By correcting the knuckle angle and stabilizing the steering linkage you can effectively gain 2-3" without droping the control arms or torsion bars.

This kit should give you 2"-3" of front end lift with the green keys. A block, add-a-leaf or air bag will have to be used to level the rear.

To raise your truck 2*-3" you do not need a full blown kit like the 4" or larger kits. By correcting the knuckle angle and stabilizing the steering linkage you can effectively gain 2-3" without droping the control arms or torsion bars.Doesn't make any sense to me. First off a truck w/ green keys can still be aligned within factory specs. I'm sure there is the expection but a majority of them are okay. While correcting the ball joint angle may help I'm not sure it will help anything as far as height. The only way to increase height in to increase the distance between the lower control arm and the ground; not the upper control arm. And most importantly no matter what DO NOT increase your CV angles more than the 2" you get w/ green keys.

Doesn't make any sense to me. First off a truck w/ green keys can still be aligned within factory specs. I'm sure there is the expection but a majority of them are okay. While correcting the ball joint angle may help I'm not sure it will help anything as far as height. The only way to increase height in to increase the distance between the lower control arm and the ground; not the upper control arm. And most importantly no matter what DO NOT increase your CV angles more than the 2" you get w/ green keys.
The alignment issue is still up for debate on the green keys. My last two trucks would not fully come into alignment with just the factory keys and 9 turns. I think it depends upon who is doing your alignment. I have seen alot of shops just set the toe and call it an alignment. In addtion, I have seen many shops use the wrong base line specs. There are so many varibles when it comes to alignment it is a controversial topic. I can only speak of the trucks I have experience with and the shop I use for my alignments.

Increasing the distance between the lower control arm and the ground is done by the tire only. not a lift kit. Changing the angle of the control arm is what provides the lift in this case. Changing this angle puts everything in a bind. This kit is designed to bring the angles of the the knuckle back toward factory specs and relieve the ball joints.

I also do not believe it will add height it will just allow you to use more of your bars while mantaining specs closer to factory.

The CV angles can be far more than 2" difference...RCD sells their 6" lift for the HD and says you can crank it to 8", but it only drops the diff. 4.5"...go figure...The CV can take it, but tierods will need to be flipped to relieve their angle.
Height can be had with just an UCA replacement...back in the early 90's Rancho offered a 2-3" kit for the 1/2 tons which left the LCA and torsion bars in the factory location, new UCA and a front diff. roll, plus add-a-leafs out back...put it on a '91 Chevy truck gained 3" and rode way better than stock. This kit is much like the Rancho from back then, but without the diff. drop.
I'll report back with my findings once done.
8.1

Did you happen to see that its raining outside?? ):h

Doing the kit would require taking the gasser from storage to the shop....not happening until the weather breaks.

8.1:cool:
Well you should catch up with "Princess" and make a happy home with the Gasser........

Think of the offspring.........Momma has some wide hips and a lot of attitude..........Daddy would be Tall and Proud.........

Literally a perfect match..........

T):h NY

LMAO!!!

Tony that's funny right there...I don't care who ya are...


Ox

I want to see some pictures!!!!!

Yeah this is funny, five pages, no pics....

What are the wheel spacers for again?

Anyone?

They look like spacers for the front axels.

They look like spacers for the front axels.They also look like sapcers for the wheels.

The spacers have 16 holes which would fit an 8 lug wheel. They have to be wheel spacers.

The spacers have 16 holes which would fit an 8 lug wheel. They have to be wheel spacers.
They look like wheel spacers to me as well. Not too sure why they are necessary unless the replacement control arm was not engineered correctly. The wheel spacer could be a post engineering "cheap" fix as opposed to redesigning to correct a mistake.

I cannot think of a single reason for the wheel spacer :confused:.

They are wheel spacers and may or may not have to be used..it is recommended that on a 16" wheel a maximum of 4-5/8" backspacing is used...the reason for them is for added clearance at the balljoint pocket, and to allow for the use of a wider selection of rims, the new UCA is very "beefy" for lack of a better word.

Guys I am trying to find the time to do this, but with the rush of overtime at work, and the wonderful New England weather I have not had time to dig the HD out of storage and bring it to the shop...maybe next week.

They are wheel spacers and may or may not have to be used..it is recommended that on a 16" wheel a maximum of 4-5/8" backspacing is used...the reason for them is for added clearance at the balljoint pocket, and to allow for the use of a wider selection of rims, the new UCA is very "beefy" for lack of a better word.

Guys I am trying to find the time to do this, but with the rush of overtime at work, and the wonderful New England weather I have not had time to dig the HD out of storage and bring it to the shop...maybe next week.You keep your truck in storage? That can't be much fun!!!!!!!!!!
I did hear from Cogbito and they said the spacer are for what you mentioned, for certain rims.

Here is my 2500HD with the cognito leveling kit on 33x12.5x16's with dual bilsteins up front and singles out back. It also has the green keys installed.http://members.aol.com/smoothiesd/photo_040.jpeg

DO you have more pics of up close pic of the front suspension? And hopfully better quality pics.

Yep we need some better pics espically some pics of your CV and ball joint angles. Are you running torsion keys in conjunction with the leveling kit?

c'mon 8.1 we need some pics anddo you think it'll work with my 4"cst spindles,i think it should but we'll see

It rained like crazy out here yesterday, some I'm sure the gasser didn't come out for fear of melting....


Ox

It rained like crazy out here yesterday, some I'm sure the gasser didn't come out for fear of melting....


OxYup, actually the gasser hasn't moved in 3 weeks....I've been rolling in the $$$...gotta love OT!!!
8.1):h

If that's the case spred the weath and buy me a leveling kit. I ain't scared to put it on out in the weather....

Ox

This thread needs to die Censored ... We will never see pics of the pavement princess 8.1 cause the ground outside is damn:rolleyes: , and the pic that was posted you can not tell anything from, heck I can acheive that stance with green keys and shocks alone :eek: . No need to purchase a $425 leveling kit to do that :confused: ... Oh well to each his own....:p

Blah, Blah, Blah...here's to all the naysayers....
Okay guys, got the new Cognito UCA's on today, straightforward install once I tracked down all my tools...I had to use wheel spacers that were included in the kit and will be eyeing up some new bling since my rims are the extreme as far as backspacing...17x8.5 with 5.5" of backspacing, with the 1/4" spacer I clear, but it's real close. I fortunatly did not need to use the shock extensions due to the length of my current shocks...At full droop I still had 3/4-1" of shock travel left which is ideal in my book...and speaking of droop...went from having less than a 1/2" of clearance at the UCA droop stop to having just over 1" with my tbars cranked the same as before... can notice some improvement in ride quality, but will need to drive it a bit more, though I have no worries of topping out anymore
I'm in the process of loading up some pics to my cardomain site so check that later on.
There is no doubt that this kit will level a stock HD, as mine is just 1 1/2" short of being level with a 2.5" block in the back...so basically I am running 3" of crank with no adverse affects.

here's a couple pics, if they don't work they are on the first page of my cardomain site.http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/374000-374999/374975_66_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/374000-374999/374975_67_full.jpg

It's hard to concentrate on the new pieces with that rusty, dirty brake rotor and caliper...what, have you been driving your truck again ):h ):h ...

Ox

It's hard to concentrate on the new pieces with that rusty, dirty brake rotor and caliper...what, have you been driving your truck again ):h ):h ...

Ox
That's gonna leave a mark...........

OUCH :p

T:rolleyes: NY

Don't you folks drive your trucks?? Mine wheel wells didn't look that clean when I bought the truck.

Yeah mine either. They'd be horrified to see the mud and crap all over mine.. Hmm maybe I better go take some pics..

It's hard to concentrate on the new pieces with that rusty, dirty brake rotor and caliper...what, have you been driving your truck again ):h ):h ...

Ox
Aw come on now...you know better than that...those are my "winter" rotors and calipers...the crossdrilled/slotted rotors and Baer calipers stay nice and salt free on a shelf in the garage.:p :D

8.1:eek:

8.1,

Looks like a decent set-up. However, there is something to check with any shock that allows the suspension to fully bottom out. My RS9000Xs with my 4" Rancho lift do the same thing.

With stock-length shocks, the front shocks actually limit droop travel. I don't really like that feature, but that's the way it is. However, my Ranchos will allow the suspension to droop fully--the upper a-arm will come down and rest on the metal "pad" made into the frame.

When the suspension is fully drooped this way, the CVs will bind--you can feel this binding when you slowly spin the front wheels. Running the CVs in this position will very likely cause them to fail, and I think it's the main reason knuckle-lift kits have been known to pull apart a CV axle during severe offroading. Now you will only get this amount of droop under severe conditions, like jumping the truck, having a front wheel drop into a hole, etc.

I will eventually fabricate some bumps stops or install limit straps on my truck. While I don't jump it very often, I do take it on rough roads when I go hunting. I don't know if the upper a-arms in your kit solve this problem, but it is something to check.

this truck is way too clean.

Help me out with the logic on this. I cranked my torsion bars 73k miles ago to level my truck and then threw on Bilsteins. Runs great, one alignment after the crank only, tire wear perfect, I got 65k miles out of a set of Michelin LTX and then sold them for $200. I have to admit I don't know much about this, I have no idea what "green keys" are. :o

Why would I want or need this kit instead of the "green keys" and what's wrong with what I did? My truck seems to be driving fine. The GM HD's were designed with front ride height adjustability by means of torsion bar adjusting bolts. No "Leveling Kit" is necessary. Cranking your bars does NOT twist them more than stock, it only raises the vehicle in reaction to the adjustment. It will allow the bars to twist more on a very hard bump but there are almost zero reports of torsion bar breakage on these trucks.

The adjustment provided by the factory is within the factory limits of the driveline angles. If you replace parts to increase lift, you risk exceeding driveline and steeing componant operating limit angles if the lift design does not consider these designed in parameters.

A well designed IFS suspension lift will also lower the center differential (pumpkin) with lowering brackets to reduce axle angles.

gasser did you have to use the spacers with the h2 wheels or the stock wheels?

spacers are needed for the H2 wheels...best if you go with aftermarket wheels though.

i hatge spacers but love the h2 wheels. I guess i need to change my mind if i'm gonna use the cognito leveling kit.

Have you taken this off-road yet? Any rubbing? I am looking at getting this setup and want to know if I should do a lift instead. I will be going off-road every now and then.

Thanks.

Why are we doing this again, why is this better that turning up the bars like I have done on the last 3 trucks, why? I dont get it, I guess it would look cool in the garage, but out here in the west we use our trucks and mine works fine without this!

Dave,

I think the understanding now is cranking up the T Bars will work but is not the best thing to do for the long term. I can only offer this. I have done both now on my truck and the ride quality of Cranked T Bars versus the Cognito Leveling kit is like night and day. I cannot believe now looking back that riding around on the rubber snubber is a good thing. One of my snubbers was actually split.

The other benefit for me was being able to add the dual shock kit up front.

got any more pics of the AFTER?

Runnin Horn,

If you look at the pics in my signature link there are a few more

i hatge spacers but love the h2 wheels. I guess i need to change my mind if i'm gonna use the cognito leveling kit.
what do you mean? You cant run H2's with the Cognito??

I was informed that the leveling kit was redesigned to work better with H2 rims. Also, all the kits purchased from now on are the new design.

I am waiting for my kit to show up!

Just put on ORU's leveling kit on Friday. Great kit, comes with the torsion bar keys and 4 Bilstein shocks. You can buy the keys seperate if you want. The complete kit is $420, keys are $100 by them selves. This was so easy to install, but you MUST use a ball joint press. Only took 1 hr 40 min and some of that time was spent screwing around with c-clamps, which just are not beefy enough to get the job done. The torsion bars remain at the factory setting as far as the adjustment bolt goes. The ride is great, I would say slightly better than stock with the Bilstein's. Went up about 2 1/4". I have cranked the torsion bars a few years back on a K1500 and the ride was horrible, this is definately the way to go, and the price is right.

...:nopics:

Hey Stien, hate to flame you but you could have gotten the same thing only a lot cheaper w/ a little research, like 300 tops delivered. I got my keys off ebay for 40 bucks delivered and will be ordering a set of bilstien's (5100's) from kennedy when i get home for 260 if i'm not mistakin'. :D


:grd:

Where did you find the larger center caps for H2 wheels?

QUOTE=8.1GASSER]Well, got the kit in heres a couple pics.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/374975_65_full.jpg[/QUOTE]

8.1Gasser, caught your pictures ... truck looks excellent.:cool2: I've been researching green keys, leveling kits, and really like the Cognito 2"-3". Your pictures sold me on the Cognito. Are you also using blocks or is that all from Cog kit?