i did a search and it gave such a large overview not it was almost overwelming, so i will ask this again with a little newer technology over the last year, i see some are using the ats system, some are using the pro 2000, and some have the bully dog single stage, and some have their own, seams to be the vapor is the most popular, would like to see people that run these items and what they think, thanks fred

Hey Fred,

I use the ATS system and even with the big VA stacked with the 155 power pup every time I hit that button I get thrown back in the seat. Its been flawless I 'm very happy.
Jim

Fred,

First off let me say, I do not work for or am not affiliated with MSD in any way. I have a pretty good relationship with them so when they asked if I would be interested in playing around with their new Digital Propane Injection system for diesel trucks, I did not hesitate. It’s been 8 months now without a hiccup, that the system has been installed.

MSD (msdignition.com), if you’re not familiar with them, manufactures aftermarket ignition systems for cars/trucks of all type. Lesser known to most is that they offer systems for other industries (watercraft, ATV, etc.) as well. They also manufacturer high end digital ignitions for motorsports and have been for the past 5-7 years.

To not bore you with a long story, I will just say that if there is a system out in the market place that is safer than this system, please let me know (I doubt you will find one). This system utilizes an ECU that monitors parameters such as rpm, throttle position, boost pressure, LP pressure, LP temp, engine coolant temperature and injects vaporized LP based off all these parameters. Fail safes are built into the system so when certain parameters are not within the necessary ranges, LP flow is reduced.

Compared to other systems in the market, you will find none that come close in safety. As for performance, if all you care about is peak power, then only way to compare is back to back on the dyno. I will tell you this, the drivability of this system is awesome, but I will also mention that I have not used anything else so that opinion is somewhat bias. The system starts injecting at .5 psi of boost and is variable from there based on the above parameters. It can also be set to come on at any boost pressure or in any pecent value via laptop or a hand held controller. The unit also has a built in data recorder that records and saves all the parameters for the system. A laptop is required though to retrieve this data if you wish to view it later on.

I will mention that before I received this system, I was looking at getting a LP system and the ATS was the one I had my eye on. I already had the tank installed and was getting ready to order it that week, when I got the call from MSD.

Should you be interested in more information, you can download the software from their website (same software used for all the ignitions, GraphView ) and get a feel for it before you purchase the system. If you want I could also post some of the recorded data I have gathered over the past few months.

One thing, since the system (not the concept) is so new; you will find more people recommending other systems. I encourage you to do your homework first before buying a system based on opinions. Just because it’s been out for sometime, doesn’t make it the best.

Good luck and if I can help in anyway, don’t hesitate to ask.

PS. some photo of the system can be view at my picturetrail account.

Eric

Eric;
Did you install this yourself? How long, hard/easy to install? I assume it will work on manual tranny as well? What is their current price? do they have plenty in stock yet?
thanks,

Installed it all by my lonesome.

Mounting the tank seemed like it took longer than mounting the system.

Maybe at the most 1-1.5 hours for the system, depends on how well you and tools get along and how neat you want it to be.

Take took me a few days to mount the tank. Had to wait for a friend to come hold my nuts (that sounds wrong). He was in the bed and I was under the bed (that sounds almost as bad) turning wrenches. All in all about 30-40 minutes to mount the tank.

4 wires to install;
1 at TPS on pedal
1 at underhood fuse box for tach signal
1 power
1 ground

Everything else is self contained

Regulator mounts using existing bolts (i.e. no drilling).

Only thing that requires permanent modification to the truck (I wanted to be able to have no signs of install in case of warranty issues) is holes in the bed and spliced heater hoses. Not so bad as you can replace the heater hoses and the bed mat covers the holes in the bed.

They (MSD) want you to drill a hole in the intake tube. I just removed the silencer/engine cover and used a aluminum plug there with their supplied fitting. This would obviously not work with the guys who own a stage 2 afe or similar intake. In that case, a hole would have to be drilled.

For pricing and availability you would have to check with them.

Hmmmm sounds like it works an awful lot like a Powershot system :rolleyes: does only a lot more complicated and with electronics, The regulator, and set up is the same setup as ATS and Bully Dog uses.

must be others out their with different opions, looking to hear the best

Yeah, it's alot more complicated than those other systems, get this, to make an adjustment in power, I have to sit in the seat, pick up the hand held controller, take a sip of my drink, plug the controller in, sip the bottle again, push 4 buttons (by now, my arm hurts from holding the controller) sip on the bottle again, and push enter on the controller.

Damn, hard work, all of this, and I still have to pay attention to the road I'm driving on! :)

Really complicated if you ask me! I'm still trying to figure out how to get my cassette tapes into that thin slot on my stereo! Any thoughts????:)

Damn electronics, making our lives more difficult!!!):h :)

Damn electronics, thats why I hate that edge atitude thingy, it's all digital like!!!


PS. Sorry for being a smart azz!!!!

must be others out their with different opions, looking to hear the bestfred in my opinion,if you are searching for an lp system it will not do you much good with your stacks until you get a bigger turbo or add naws):h .anyway i run the bdog and have a local buddy who runs the msd on his 6liter .

fred in my opinion,if you are searching for an lp system it will not do you much good with your stacks until you get a bigger turbo or add naws):h .anyway i run the bdog and have a local buddy who runs the msd on his 6liter .
thanks guys for the answers, jess you must be right on that point, i heard it a few times today that i just do not have enought air to see any higher numbers, well i guess i will wait for my water/methanal injection to come soon, :ro)

The Powershot 2000 has got to be the simplest, most straight forward installation that I have seen.

I sort of built my own, I use an Impco Model E vaporizer/regulator, and a Century filterlock. This hardware is the same stuff that a gasoline engine uses that burns LP. Super simple, one wire goes from a toggle switch to the filterlock. The fuel is sucked into the engine ahead of the turbo, which provides modulated gas flow depending on engine load. I have a ball valve between the regulator and the engine to change fuel curve. The truck does 27 to 30 mpg on diesel at 70 mph, and gets 26 mpg on lp. (At the same time.) If you want more info, PM me.

Powershot 2000 system here... Takes about 30 minutes plus an hour or so to mount the tank... Easy!

Only problem (or possible issue) I see is what happens when the airfilter gets dirty and becomes a restriction? It's going to start pulling harder on the LP, accident waiting to happen? Now you can say "but I clean my filter on a regular basis so I will be ok". That's true, but between cleanings the restriction of you filter doesn't change? Of course it does (or the filter wouldn't be doing it's job) therefore changing the LP induction or variable setup. Now with setup liike the Power shot, this would not be as big of an issue if at all.

The MSD system uses the same regulator as most. Everything being equal, it takes the same amount of time to install the regulator, intake nipple, hose, switch, water lines, etc.
Mounting the ecu and tapping into the 2 additional wires (TPS and Tach signal), it only takes about 15-20 more minutes at the most. For the added piece of mind, 15-20 min is nothing to me.

It's funny, when I was originally looking into LP for the truck, when talking to people about it, everyone said told me they would rather install nitrous on their diesels before installing LP as they all stated "you get one bad gulp of liquid LP you blow it up".

Seems to me, there may have been issues with the systems used on diesel at that time. Working at NOS for years, I know how one bad incident puts a bad idea on a product in many peoples minds.

Once again, just my opinions and thoughts. May or may not mean anything to anyone else but myself.

One of the indicators I have of how much lp is being used is the inability of the cruise control to hold the speed rock steady. At highway speed, I had to cut back on the amount of lp slightly. This is because the cruise is only controlling the amount of diesel used, which gives the cruise control too much gain. In other words, a small adjustment on the diesel fuel level creates a bigger adjustment on the speed, so it hunts a bit, drifting high, then low, etc. If I start to draw more lp over time, this problem will grow worse. As far as standing on it, I am afraid to. I pulled through 5th gear a few weeks ago passing someone, so I tend to be pretty careful with it. This thing makes crazy power with the gas on!

My system did the same thing, "hunting" when on cruise control. They "MSD" have since fixed in software tuning.

I don't see more piece of mind with the MSD setup... Only more $$$. This is not to say the system is bad by any means... It's just to say that I don't need the electronics that the MSD brings into the picture. I don't think having the electronics will prevent anything more that the Powershot may experience. Both systems would probably work... It boils down to the amount you want to spend I think.

Sp33,

I agree with you 100%!

Both systems will work no doubt. Is one better than the other, I believe so, is one programmer or module better than the other, of course.

But what I take from what you are saying, why are cars no longer produced with carburetors? I mean, carbs worked right?? Why did they introduce miles of wiring into the covette with EFI? Was there a need for it, I mean why fix it if it's not broken??

Electronics make things better! Do they make things less complicated, depends on how you look at it (I mean, the electronics in an F-16 makes the pilots job easier, but it also makes the techs job who is working on plane more complicated). Does electronics make things easier, once again, depends on how you look at it.

As I mentioned, these are just my opinions and thoughts.

I may be taking it the wrong way (wouldn't be the first time).

In any case, your last sentence is right

You get what you pay for!!!

When adding the Powershot to my set up, I saw some good extra gains when on the fuel. I run it with the Extreme as well. What was black before, is much blacker with the pain on. I am talkin cut it with a knife black. Awsome gains are to be had with the N2O, or more air in any form with this leathal combo. With out the extra air, I see about a 45-50hp gain over the Extreme with the Powershot on. Stock setting on the pain only as well. Very exellent product and well worth the money in my opinion.

As I said, both systems work. Neither works better than the other at the ultimate goal of getting propane in the engine. All you are really getting more from the MSD is additional safety parameters (which is not a bad thing).

Is one better than the other? Not in my opinion. Because we both have different uses and expectations for the systems we're each going to like what we have. I use the system only when racing so all that extra safety stuff doesn't matter to me, and would possibly hurt the performance that I want to get from the propane. I see the MSD system being very popular with those that want to use it for full-time power reliable power or mpg improvements.

The MSD system looks great. They've put a lot of thought into it. I just want those reading this thread to realize that there is nothing wrong with the powershot and in my opinion, it's as good of a choice as the MSD. They both have their market.

Powershot 2000 :ro)

Sp33d,

Great post. I agree 100% with everything you said. I apologize if my last post came across harsh. I just didn't want this to turn into another "edge is the end all module, buy it becuase everyone else has it" thread.

Wasn't trying to push the MSD down his throat, just pointing out thoughts to be had when looking for a system.