Has anybody used them or know of anybody that has used them. I have heard some conflicting stories.. Just wanted to hear anybody elses experiances.

http://www.dieseldynamics.com/

Thanks in advance.
P.

I ran their injectors in my dodge for 3 years. No issues. Hope that helps

That's a start. Thanks.

I'm intersted too,injectors will be my first mod after the tranny gets upgraded.

When doing injectors you need to find out a few things..

What are they using for cores? Starting with new? Warranty? Flow tested and results provided? Matched as a set? Core required?

I have put in a good number of reworked injectors and I have quickly learned what makes a good one. Its alot of money and work to put in only to have sub-par units or worse..

I have heard some good/bad things about them.

Thanks.

They are working with Edge on the Edge dragster so I figure they can't be that bad. Wonder why they didn't go with a Dmax/Allison for the dragster? Seriously... no pun intended.

Lawrence is a good guy and does great work. The production stuff is generally real good, but if you buy third or fourth party injectors (i.e. DD to Texas Diesel to RPM to small "forum" vendor), warranty is about non-existant. Their injectors are pretty much "top tier" rated, as compared to BD or Dave's or whatever, as they were the first ones to perfect extrude honing to match sets while saving the seat area. If it's very new or prototype stuff, spend the extra bill on buying straight from them instead of thru the "discount chain", tho standard production stuff is OK from anywhere. It's worth it just for the service after the sale. JMO from past experiences. Good luck...T

hoot, a 12V with a mechanical injection pump is easier to transplant into a rail/tube chassis than a Duramax with with an electronic injection pump, ECM and related engine sensors.

hoot, a 12V with a mechanical injection pump is easier to transplant into a rail than a Duramax with with an electronic injection pump, ECM and related engine sensors.

Mike, is the Edge truck considered a rail?

The production stuff is generally real good, but if you buy third or fourth party injectors (i.e. DD to Texas Diesel to RPM to small "forum" vendor), warranty is about non-existant. Curious as to why it would matter?

Its still a DD injector right? Dunno why that would matter I guess..:confused:

hoot, when it comes to transplanting a motor, there isn't much difference between a tube chassis in the shape of a truck or a tube chassis in the shape of a rail

HighJack.....

DMT, don't know either. Just stating fact from past experience (first hand)...T

ok, thanks.

I've had good experience with Keith at DD... got some parts from him twice so far. Good service before and after the sale..

Eric

Who has flow matched injectors sets? I sure hope your not talking about the Junk Kennedy is selling. I've seen two sets of them fail already. The tips maybe flow matched but the injectors with tips were far from it. I would love to see a good set of injectors that were made as good as the factory stockers but had higher flow rates. If your going to be spending the money your much better off buying them from the source that makes them not a reseller with no equipment to check them with. I've knowen Lawrence and Kieth at Diesel Dynamics along time and I'd much rather spend my money with a company that makes the injectors so if there is a problem i can talk with the pereson that built them. They have the knowledge and equipment in house and can control it.

I am no way doubting anybody's product, just that I have seen a few from a place in TX.. ahem, that are not up to par in my book. I dunno about failure rates, but I think it depends on what your starting with. You start with early cores and your not gonna end up with much IMO. You start with the latest injector brand new, you success rate is likely gonna be higher. I say if a before/after test report/flow rate chart cant be provided then shy away, if DD offers this, then I would not hesitate to use the product.

I'd like to know where these failed SETS are. I've had ONE case of ONE suspect injector failure, and that was Sdaver for whom I did a set of USED NOZZLES only that he put on his own USED injectors.

Now the intersting thing is that the truck still is not fixed, and that the turbo is now the suspect acording to David.

With all of the stockinjector failures, I have always shied away from used injectors, and have stated so publicly...



Eric

Who has flow matched injectors sets? I sure hope your not talking about the Junk Kennedy is selling. I've seen two sets of them fail already. The tips maybe flow matched but the injectors with tips were far from it. I would love to see a good set of injectors that were made as good as the factory stockers but had higher flow rates. If your going to be spending the money your much better off buying them from the source that makes them not a reseller with no equipment to check them with. I've knowen Lawrence and Kieth at Diesel Dynamics along time and I'd much rather spend my money with a company that makes the injectors so if there is a problem i can talk with the pereson that built them. They have the knowledge and equipment in house and can control it.

I'd like to know where these failed SETS are. I've had ONE case of ONE suspect injector failure, and that was Sdaver for whom I did a set of USED NOZZLES only that he put on his own USED injectors.

Now the intersting thing is that the truck still is not fixed, and that the turbo is now the suspect acording to David.

With all of the stockinjector failures, I have always shied away from used injectors, and have stated so publicly...

Mine have been perfect to date with 10K on them so far. Balance rates are great. The injectors were brand spanking new out of the box and of first rate quality. The truck idles fantastic, runs smooth and the power numbers speak for themselves.

I guess I just don't understand......

At my request John reluctlantly got me a set got me a set done (nozzles)..........we discussed the issues associated with nozzles on old bodies.......I knew the risk and did it any way...... they were suspect for a problem but have proven not to be the culprit..........Brandon did it the right way.......I did not have a window of oppurtunity that would allowed that method. John was straight up in this deal and should not be slung thru the mud. During this period of time I have had on loan a new set of injectors to replace my old ones with if it were a problem courtesy of Kennedy Diesel. I know there are issues between several here and I dont wish to be caught in the middle...........

I know there are issues between several here and I dont wish to be caught in the middle...........This happens a lot...that's why it seems best to keep quiet about anything a person does. When it comes to anything with trucks and this forum...it's better to keep your mouth shut....


Thanks for being honest Dave...seems like Kennedy stepped up and was ready to help out instead of covering it up....although the nozzles weren't even the problem.....not bad.

I dont see it getting much better then a NEW injector with a re-work...

I find it funny how a thread about Diesel Dynamics gets Hijacked to another suppliers product. Then the tear down of the orginal supplier in question starts and the recomendation of another supplier continues. I pointed out there are failures with Kennedy injectors and that I donot like them and then it's we donot have failures, where are they......... John you have had failures and you and I know it!
Your Web site says
"This modification consists of exchange nozzles set to flow increased volume. The preferred method is to use your existing bodies, and/or injectors."

This is not New injectors simpley replacement tips placed on used injectors, no different than what Diesel Dynamics does. The big difference is they do it and you buy tips then send it out to someone else. I would much rather deal with the company making them instead of a middleman sales person. When and if there is a problem it's much easier dealing with the manufacture than a saleman for a third/fourth party.

And now, the rest of the story:

"I try to keep a few sets of new injectors on hand at all times. These will be available as exchange units if you have NEW injector cores to send in." - JK






Read into it what you want, but of all the injectors that I have done, only a couple of sets of used ones were sold. I know where they are, and haven't had any complaints. The purchasing dealer was made aware of my feelings on used injectors.

From there, we have several forum members here who provided NEW cores in exchange for NEW injectors that were reworked. Bring forth the party with the problem SET of injectors let alone single injector problem.

Paul Harvey, good day... :rolleyes:

I just re-read the thread, and it appears to me that Eric posed some valid questions and never mentioned any names. Then the slam came mentioning my name. I did not see Eric tear down DD, only posed simple questions that one should ask when looking into this.

Even with all of the Injector failures in stock applications,I've seldom if ever seen a SET fail. Seems GM adopted the set replacement policy to help clear out some suspect production lots. Truth is, most times it's only 1 or 2 that can be proven bad...



I find it funny how a thread about Diesel Dynamics gets Hijacked to another suppliers product. Then the tear down of the orginal supplier in question starts and the recomendation of another supplier continues. I pointed out there are failures with Kennedy injectors and that I donot like them and then it's we donot have failures, where are they......... John you have had failures and you and I know it!
Your Web site says
"This modification consists of exchange nozzles set to flow increased volume. The preferred method is to use your existing bodies, and/or injectors."

This is not New injectors simpley replacement tips placed on used injectors, no different than what Diesel Dynamics does. The big difference is they do it and you buy tips then send it out to someone else. I would much rather deal with the company making them instead of a middleman sales person. When and if there is a problem it's much easier dealing with the manufacture than a saleman for a third/fourth party.

Word on the street is that Edge BOUGHT Diesel Dynamics FYI...




They are working with Edge on the Edge dragster so I figure they can't be that bad. Wonder why they didn't go with a Dmax/Allison for the dragster? Seriously... no pun intended.

And now, the rest of the story:

"I try to keep a few sets of new injectors on hand at all times. These will be available as exchange units if you have NEW injector cores to send in." - JK


So where do these new injectors come from, since GM sells them as rebuilds and requires a core unit or your charged for the cores. So what your now saying is the customers needs to go to GM and buy a fresh set of rebuilt injectors for $2000 +, then ship them to you so you can ship them to a third party to install tips and flow check the tips. If doing it any other way doesn't work properly then why would you sell them that way? Seems to me your blowing in the wind again........... time to step up and pick one way or the other and stick to it or just continue to play salesman. If placing tips on used injectors is no good then don't sell them, but instead you call it The preferred method.

Diesel Dynamics builds a good product and after all that's what this thread was started about!

Holy Shizz.

Where is the Love? ;)

MMMMMM nothing like a cup of STFU!

I am so glad i have nothing to offer in this thread......

Nice useful exchange of ideas here - goes from "Who has experience with DD" to "JK sells junk" pretty much in that order with nothing inbetween. :confused: Nowhere was DD called to the mat specifically. Looks like somebody's got an axe to grind. Totally hijacked, and ceases to be usefull - lock it and start a new one with the original intent in mind. At any rate I'm sure all the original person got out of this thread looking for the info is there is friction between vendors and is no closer to buying a DD product than before, in fact if it were me I would be less likely to entertain it. :rolleyes:

Since we are on the subject about injectors, here is some more of my .02. I have put in three sets of these and have another set ordered. Too answer the the question above, These have all been new injectors. Customers are given the option at time of purchase if they would like new injectors or just replacement nozzles. All of the customers I have done have opted for starting with NEW injectors that most of which I have supplied and got directly from GM. These are not left over previous gen injectors, these are the latest part number/design units that are used to start with. When making an investment as large as injector upgrade, it is wise to start with new to greatly decrease the chance of future problems. However, no company that sells or does the re-work can gaurantee againts inherent Bosch problems.

That being said, no mention made in my original post for or against ANYBODY's injectors. I just know that having done two trucks with replacement used tips from the Dallas area, that there was no indication that work was even done. The nozzles come back still carboned up. If I spend the 800 bucks for those nozzles, at least clean them before you send them back.

Edit: John does keep a 'rotating set' on hand to be used. I send him a set of new injector that my customer would purchase from me, and exchange him for a set of new reworked injectors. Thus, the core is covered and no downtime.

Not that it means sh!t to a tree but as a consumer, nothing turns me off faster to a company/vendor than for them to burn on a competitor on an open forum such as this (justified or not).

Not that it means sh!t to a tree but as a consumer, nothing turns me off faster to a company/vendor than for them to burn on a competitor on an open forum such as this (justified or not).whats sad is I dont even know why it has gone to this? I hope my simple suggestions on what to look for didnt start a fire...
:confused:

If it did, it shouldn't have. :( The mudslinging serves no purpose on an informational forum and it is painful to have to see others forced to defend themselves. OK, off the soapbox now...that serves no purpose either! :D

whats sad is I dont even know why it has gone to this? I hope my simple suggestions on what to look for didnt start a fire...
:confused:

After reading through all the posts I feel less knowledgeable about DD's injectors then before I started.:confused: Put your differences aside and lets talk about DD's injectors. I want to know if they're worth the money in terms of performance and quality and if they're a modification you have done or would do to your truck?:)

Eric

What got me to start in this post was the comments you made are pretty much right from Kennedy's web site. This thread was about Diesel Dynamics. Maybe I shouldn't of taken it the way I did.

When you buy your new injectors is a core still required from GM? When I last tried buying injectors from GM they were listed as rebuilt not new and required a core, has this policy changed? Do you mean you are just supplying the new style but still a rebuilt part? You reported good luck and I reported bad luck with those modified injectors (KD's).

I have worked with the DD injectors and had good luck with them but they do rebuild the injectors themselve's with modified tips. So it's pretty much the same product from both other than one is the manufacture and the other is just a reseller.

Steve, my comments were not meant to be echo'd from anybody's site or written info.. Just from MY experience in this dept. I have replace 6 or so sets of aftermarket injectors. 2 sets were just nozzles and the last 4 were complete new injectors. I buy them direct from GM, and as far as I know, they are only boxed as remans, but are acutally new. I have been watching the stamped numbers on them and they seem to be progressing upward. These are raised numbers on the injectors and I suspect it would be hard to change them in a reman process. There is still the core on them, but from what I have heard, its so that they can get them back for evaluation more then for reman purposes. The old injectors pose to much risk in failure to be put back in the system. The cores are returned as the injectors that get removed from the truck upon replacment. There is still a set of injectors and the core charge that sits idle in between but its not a big deal. I have had very good luck with these injectors, not that I am 'plugging' them but they are very well done. I suspect that DD injectors are the same from what has been said about them. I dont know who they are so I couldnt fairly give any input on them. Would I use them? Sure, they seem to be well respected and knowledable.

I dont think this business would be as big as it was today if only the manufacture sold the products. I sell alot of products for alot of people and I dont make a bit of it. So have alot of other people. It just isnt feasable and not good for business IMO to not have distrubuters.

There's a big wooden crate full of thousands of used injectors behind a GM building that some smart guy has the line on..... ):h

Eric

From what I have been informed by Bosch who supplies GM with the injectors for the LB7's and LLY's is that there are no new LB7 injectors, they are all rebuilt injectors to the new style. They also stated that they do not envision ever producing any new injectors for the LB7 as they have plenty of good core injectors. So from this information they are what they claim to be "rebuilt" injectors. There is a separate part number for new injectors but when you try to get them they tell you to order the rebuilt number as there is no new units. So what you are truly selling is a rebuilt injector not new. Maybe they stamp a new number so they can tell what level the injector has been built too, but since the box says rebuilt and the supplier say no new units I think you should state what your selling as rebuilt not new to avoid the confusion.

As far as selling through distributors that's not a problem but when the distributor leads people to believe they are the manufacture/supplier I believe that to be misleading. What ever happened to the old days where when asked the supplier was expected to tell you the brand of the parts your getting? If they were "xyz" or "abc" brand injectors.

I will investigate the injector issue because I am curious myself now..

They have been labeled remans for some time now.. dunno whats up there. GM still refers to them as NEW though, regardless of what the box says.

As for selling products named for the person selling, not the distrubuting.. that is not uncommon from what I have seen. One would have the idea on something and contract the work out to a manufacture, but still label it as X even know Y built it...
Everything from Torque converters, to clutches, exhaust systems and power boxes... most are not built by the main distributer, only sold under the name becuase of the idea origin.

There's a big wooden crate full of thousands of used injectors behind a GM building that some smart guy has the line on..... ):h

what do ya get for a set dipper):h

"They have been labeled remans for some time now.. dunno whats up there."

Eric

So you agree with me that the parts supplied by GM are labeled as remanufactured. This is the point of what I've been trying to tell people here, there are no new parts just rebuilt so the advertiseing of NEW injectors is completely false and anyone saying that they are offering NEW injectors with increased flow is falsely advertiseing something they are not supplying!

So were down to the simple fact that everyone is supplying replaced tips on rebuilt injectors! Now why would someone mislead people to believeing they are new injectors when the box they come supplied in states they are remanufactured.............. just doesn't seem right to me.


So Mr. Kennedy where are you getting the new injectors you claim to have?

Do you mean no new LB7 injectors on no new Duramax injectors? They would almost have to make new LLY injectors because they're still building LLY's. My question is are DD's LLY injectors new or remaned?

I would gather Bosch is still making LLY injectors. This info is just pertaining to LB7 injectors. I'm sure if you called DD they would tell you. You could also research the Bosh part # for new and reman'd LLY injectors and see what the availability is on them. Sounds like the LLY guys are the only ones who stand a chance of getting REAL new injectors. As far as i concerned I don't care if my injectors are reman as long as a quality company that knows what they're doing does the reman work. Bosh must have felt they could properly reman them since they no longer make them anymore (for the LB7).

I did learn something valuable through all of this though- There are no NEW injectors. I never even thought to consider that. Kinda makes sense though. Compaq Computer worked the same way. when a server was in production they made XXX number of spare parts to anticipate the number required for the products lifecycle and then they stopped making them. Next they would repair unique parts used for warranty replacement once their "new" stock ran out.

I'm sorry the thread had to turn negative, but at least some new info did come of it... hopefully the approach will be better next time:o

You would need to check with DD on the injectors they use but there are no new LB7 injectors and have not been any for along time. The Last LLY injectors we saw from a GM dealer were also labeled remanufactured but I'm sure they are building new one's for production trucks but maybe only selling remanufacture units for resale. I will check to see if Bosch sells new units for the LLY still.

I want everyone to know there is nothing wrong with a properly rebuilt injector. However, there is something wrong though when someone misleads you to believe they are supplying something they are not.

Just had this same question put to me today (that is if this topic has evolved into new vs. remanufactured injectors…). A customer of mine wanted brand new injectors for his LB7. We are an authorized Bosch dealer and the part number for that injector is 0986 435 502. I called my distributor and they had none in stock. They called their contact at Bosch and were told that there are no injectors available with that part number, and there are no plans to make any. The alternative is to use part number 0986 435 502 which is a remanufactured product that does require a core, and are currently available.

I think GM decided to implement the replacement of all eight injectors each time to minimize the chance of replacing the wrong injector, and to reduce the chance of come backs. This produces the effect of “good” core injectors being returned and a large supply for Bosch’s remanufacturing program.

I have to agree and disagree..

There has been a core on these injectors as long as I can remember. But until recently were they labeled as cores. GM still calls them NEW injectors. I guess I dont know what to think until I can get some further answers...

I know that year ago when we had a meeting with the Dmax brand quality mgr and the top dmax field engineers the topic came up and they said that the risk of returning a bad injector to the field is too high. You cant reman an injector and fix things like cracked bodies. Nor can you prevent them. I know that the manufacturing process has changed on these a number of times and part of the change was to improve the body to resist cracking. I wish I could remember dates of these changes but I cant.

All in all, I dont feel as anybody is being mislead entirely. If you go to the dealer, they are gonna tell you they are installing NEW injectors, why? Becuase GM tells us they ARE new? Who do you believe? I dunno anymore. If you are being told that they are new then you are gonna pass that info on. If one were to find out that it was indeed a reman, then he would change his description. I dont think the type of customer that chooses this extensive of a mod is gonna be uneducated by any means. He is very aware of whats going on and what he is getting after spending 4k to have injectors installed. I know I would make dang sure I knew what was up.

Long story short, the injectors supplied are "as close to new as your gonna get becuase they are the latest and greatest that GM has to offer" and flowed. Leave it up to the end user I guess to guess if they are new or not. Dont matter does it?

I sell alot of reman converters from GM that are labeled as NEW, but are indeed remans..

I started saving my old light bulbs and fuses so I can send them in for reman too! LMAO!

Pic no workie...dont get our hopes up and not have your pic work!

Hmmmm I can see it ,how is your eye sight?

Eric

All in all if a part is label remanufactured I think it only right to tell the customer so. Since the box the part comes in says it's remanufactured that's what it is, regardless of what someone else says. I know Bosch would never use a cracked body but if the rest of the unit is good you would replace the body make the necessary upgrades and ship it out. That's a remanufactured part because by law a new part needs to contain 100% new pieces. If not 100% new pieces it must be sold as a remanufactured part.
To try and tell anyone it's new when it's not is just not right.

Ok, now that that is settled.

I think we should move on now....

So....has anybody here got any experience with these injectors first hand?

This just in ~There has been a corporate sit down all parties are in agreement and the conclusion is~


Mac :D

Shouldn't there be an amish surry laying on its side behind the horse? ):h

One more time... I have bought, used, sold and installed gobs of DD injectors since early 2000. The only issues to ever arise were 1) longevity of prototypes (usually 1/3 to 1/2 usual life) and 2) If you buy some kind of custom "fire hose nozzles" thru 3rd or 4th party vendors and they smoke too much or whatever, your generally SOL. If you buy anything directly from them, regardless of make or build (and as previously stated, Kieth can and will make you anything you think you need [most recently for me a KILLER custom 2 stage NO2 kit] and Lawrence WILL make it work and will stand behind EVERYTHING that leaves their shop), it will be top of the line. All work is done in house, tested in house, and come-back rates are, in my experience, less than .5%. Their prices are about even with most others, and, tho not in writing, if you smoke a tip or develope excessive leak down or bleed at even 80,000 miles, you'll have a NEW SET at your door in three days, regardless of build. This is all from first hand experience, and I'd assume it's the norm for them (or was). General tip life is about 100,000 miles, tho bunches of guys just soak up the extra fuel clear past the 200,000 mile mark (mucho smoke, mucho power). Hope this helps whoever was interested. BTW, touching on the last 4 pages of this thread, If John says something is a good product, regardless of what it's called or how it's labeled, I wouldn't even question it. Just buy it. DITTO for Steve. Experience is the best teacher, and there's a ****load of it between the two of them. Tho it seems to be getting worse on the "your a ********" BS, both these guys and 8 or 9 more I can think of off hand on here rely strickly on reputation and word of mouth for their business and bread money. That's worth tons to me. I'll trust them all, unless...T

For those of you that think I came down on JK and Eric to hard, sorry. My point in this discussion was what I saw as another vendor down playing a competitors product. A customer asked about a product and then the post was taken off topic to another suppliers product trying to say mines better because of new injectors are used,..... we don't have failures...... . When I knew for a fact that was not the truth. Building a better product is there for anyone to do but to falsely advertise that product just gets me going. Now everyone know the truth, there are no new LB7 injectors and everyone has failures. Diesel Dynamics has built quality injectors for a long time. I have tune many sets of them over the years.

Nice useful exchange of ideas here - goes from "Who has experience with DD" to "JK sells junk" pretty much in that order with nothing inbetween. :confused: Nowhere was DD called to the mat specifically. Looks like somebody's got an axe to grind. Totally hijacked, and ceases to be usefull - lock it and start a new one with the original intent in mind. At any rate I'm sure all the original person got out of this thread looking for the info is there is friction between vendors and is no closer to buying a DD product than before, in fact if it were me I would be less likely to entertain it. :rolleyes:
Perfect!! I started this thread to find out some data not a pissing contest between people. YES this thread was HIJACKED!!

For those of you that think I came down on JK and Eric to hard, sorry.

Apologie accepted, now let's get back to talking diesel performance!

You know something, this is very frustrating! I wanted to hear about peoples experience's with DD (because they are close) NOT a pissing-contest between (Kennedy, Diesel Tech) posters. To me that is very unprofessional. I was contemplating on making the drive to Kennedy Diesel (because I was going to be in the area for work) to have some work done on my rig. NOT ANYMORE!! TTS & Kennedy you have shown your true colors......

So what have we achieved so far???? Let's see, NOT A DAMM THING!! Thanks for the help, it was very informative

You know something, this is very frustrating! I wanted to hear about peoples experience's with DD (because they are close) NOT a pissing-contest between (Kennedy, Diesel Tech) posters. To me that is very unprofessional. I was contemplating on making the drive to Kennedy Diesel (because I was going to be in the area for work) to have some work done on my rig. NOT ANYMORE!! TTS & Kennedy you have shown your true colors......

So what have we achieved so far???? Let's see, NOT A DAMM THING!! Thanks for the help, it was very informative
IF you re-read through the entire thread, Kennedy was called out on a misunderstanding and responded to it. The misunderstanding has been cleared up, apologies made and accepted, and the initial subject of the post resumed. There are posts in this thread on people's experiences with DD injectors and the posts are positive. It would appear that it is a viable route to pursue in your quest for more performance. As John stated, let's get back to talking diesel performance! :ro)

You should be appreciative that this forum even exists. Go try to find one thats better...I dare ya!

I am not a specific advocate of anybody on this site because I have no 1st hand experience with any of the vendors living North of the 49th. That being said, however in fairness to Kennedy Diesel - he was called out and has a right to defend himself, it just so happens that in doing so it sent the thread into the ditch. Before you rule out a specific vendor one or all or whomever you are looking at getting some advice / product from, shoot them a PM or something to get it cleared up. Don't do yourself a disservice because of one thread gone bad, because there is alot of hands on knowledge to access. It is my understanding that most of the stuff JK recommends or can shed some light on is stuff that he has tried on his own trucks - not all the people peddling product can claim that. :D :cool:

You know something, this is very frustrating! I wanted to hear about peoples experience's with DD (because they are close) NOT a pissing-contest between (Kennedy, Diesel Tech) posters. To me that is very unprofessional. I was contemplating on making the drive to Kennedy Diesel (because I was going to be in the area for work) to have some work done on my rig. NOT ANYMORE!! TTS & Kennedy you have shown your true colors......

So what have we achieved so far???? Let's see, NOT A DAMM THING!! Thanks for the help, it was very informative

Chopjaw,

It is worth the trip to see the Superflow alone and run your truck on it. JK truly loves what he does and I have had excellent business dealings with him. Don't miss the opportunity to stop by if you are close, I drove over 15 hours to see his place and a bunch of other diesel nuts for a get-to-gether and I would do it again.

You should be appreciative that this forum even exists. Go try to find one thats better...I dare ya!

We ALL thank you for your kind words. :)

I totally love this site. IMO this is the best place for durmax info PERIOD!!!!

I was alittle miffed this morning Then I read 6 pages of B!tching and finger pointing. Akneejerk reaction is what I had. Sorry. This place still rules..

Chopjaw

Sorry I got it started but your kneejerk reaction is the same as mine, only difference was I saw the false advertiseing going on and said something about it. Diesel Dynamics builds good parts and I would not be afraid to use them. Like I said before everyone is building off of used or remanufactured parts so there all the same basic unit. There are no adjustments in the injectors so they will flow what they flow. If the tips are produced properly they will be flow matched from the start. Since DD flow matches the tips when they make them your good to go.

Interesting thread! First, I have not used Diesel Dynamics or Kennedy Diesel. So I can not give y'all an opinion.
It seems like there has been much discussion about re-manufactured since I have joined this forum. I understand "re-manufactured" in this case means reusing the electronics. The body's are new, Bosch would not be producing new injector units for the LB7 because the LB7 is no longer in production. I would guess that the nozzles and the valving parts are also new. Seems like the injector is new with some used parts.

Just an opinion from a un-knowledgeable bonehead! :o

"Seems like the injector is new with some used parts."

That's the description of any rebuild, remanufactured part. Take and replace whats worn and use what's good. If the tip is all that's bad that's what gets replaced. Since Bosch is the one supplying all the rebuilding parts at this time you get the same quality of parts from everyone ( GM, Bosch or whatever rebuilder). Also, since there are no adjustments in the injectors there is nothing anyone can do to change the flow of a finished unit. So you would have to have 100 injectors or more and flow each one and document the flow rate. Once each has been documented you could select the ones that matched the closest but if you only have 8 or 16 units to pick from, you cannot do much selecting. The truth is if the nozzles and tips were made properly they will flow the same. So I guess everyone can say they have flow matched injectors.

Isn't the core charge on injectors 150.00?

I have to assume the only used part is the solenoid!

Mac

As far as the debate over new or reman injectors.. I suppose it should be read as "the GM replacement units" meaning its the same thing your gonna get from a dealer weather it be new, used, reman, or whatever.
Core is 100 bucks on the injectors.

I have seen any given set of 8 vary in stock form on the flow bench by as much as 15%. I agree that the larger number of units you have, the better chances you have of getting a closely matched set, but if factory units vary by 15% then getting that down to 5% would be a huge improvement. Balance rates can cover up the rest unnoticed.

As you are new to the forum let me tell you something. A lot goes on that many of us (myself included of course) are not fortunate enough to learn about. If you read the history of this forum over a year ago you will see threads that entailed a lot of bickering, etc. BUT some of them (like this thread) revealed some very good information that the masses didn't know. somtimes it takes a little controversy to bring something to light. This is not anyone's fault, just the way life somtimes works. While I wished this thread hadn't taken the direction it did for a while, it did teach ME something at least and I'm grateful for it. Now that the two named individuals have moved on, i'd suggest doing the same- after all they did.

Up to reading your post i did learn something else- it sounds like DD makes a good product when it comes to injectors. So the original question was answered, just took a little bit:).

Sometimes progress isn't smooth, but we're all human.

Nick

You know something, this is very frustrating! I wanted to hear about peoples experience's with DD (because they are close) NOT a pissing-contest between (Kennedy, Diesel Tech) posters. To me that is very unprofessional. I was contemplating on making the drive to Kennedy Diesel (because I was going to be in the area for work) to have some work done on my rig. NOT ANYMORE!! TTS & Kennedy you have shown your true colors......

So what have we achieved so far???? Let's see, NOT A DAMM THING!! Thanks for the help, it was very informative

We ALL thank you for your kind words. :)
:D:D:D:D:D

As far as the debate over new or reman injectors.. I suppose it should be read as "the GM replacement units" meaning its the same thing your gonna get from a dealer weather it be new, used, reman, or whatever.

Good idea. The main point that I want to emphasize here is that in light of the known tendency of failures with the early units, it is best to stick with using YOUR cores or fresh units from GM. That way you know what you have...

Diesel Dynamics has always produced great products!! They were one of the pioneers of many Diesel products that actually delivered what you paid for. Everything was and is dyno tested to the hilt.

Its true that Bosch has a policy that all Common Rail injectors be returned to them for rebuilding. We have the same trouble currently with Cummins/Bosch. You can still get brand new injectors, but they require a core return or you pay the core charge. Some remanufactured injectors are in circulation as well. ON all the core Common Rail injectors we have disassembled, repaired and put back in circulation we have had zero failures. This is in the Cummins/Bosch systems. I try to keep as many parts as I can get my hands on to replace the bad components. There are no parts available to purchase anywhere. If I have a bad solenoid, etc. I can rob one from a core and get the injector up and running again. Compared to the older nozzle/holder mechanical injector of last generation the Common Rail injectors are more complex and more prone to troubles. I see severe wear in low mile engines and scuffing on many of the internal parts. I commonly receive a set of Common Rail injectors that will have 3-4 out of 6 with internal problems. Most of the troubles are easily cured if caught early. Some of them wont even cause a driveability issue until the trouble gets real bad. I suspect that a large percentage of the Cummins/Bosch injectors will fail over time, but the good news is....most of this can be repaired without even needing the parts that are not available anyway. The bad news is...once the injector is running poor enough to get a service tech involved the damage is probably severe enough that no Bosch injection shop or service place can repair them with the tools they have. This may be part of the reason that Bosch is wanting them back....many are not serviceable without machining components that require micro inch finishes and very expensive lapping and tolerancing equipment.

In extreme cases we have resorted to machining new parts. I do not anticipate that Bosch will sell components anytime soon. Its a desperate situation...so desperate that I have seen a few aftermarket injector companies using the wrong solenoids from other applications and not understanding the mistake they are making in doing so. I have had to repair more than one set of these mismashed/slapped together injectors already. I also see nozzles that were extrude honed and basically had the life taken out them or no longer work at all. I see this ALL THE TIME! As a matter of fact...of the improperly honed nozzles I have seen...everyone one was a few thousand miles away from failure or not running properly and causing misfires or nailing.

The Common Rail system injectors work with injector "on-time" not just a slug of pressurized fuel like the old school. You could get away with crappy and unbalanced flow rates with those, but to maximize performance and shot to shot consistancy the balance and flw rate of the Common Rail injector is ultra important. The needle in the nozzle is coated with DLC to insure that friction is low and can move with as much speed/velocity as possible. The system is much more complex than one would comprehend by just looking at the injector.

Don~

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