Hey all. Just had my first oil analysis done. 88,000KLMs on
truck. 8,000KLMs (5,000 miles). Baldwin air and oil
filters. Shel Rotella 15W40 mineral oil.



Aluminum 4

Chromium 3

Copper 7

Iron 9

Lead 3

Tin 2

Silicon 12

Potassium 0

Sodium 6

Moly 0

Water 0.1

Oxidation 2.8

Viscosity @ 100 13.7

Glycol None dtected

Fuel <2

TBN 10.0

Nitration <2.0

Soot 0.8



How does this meaure up?

Max,


Your numbers look very good--wear metals are all single digit--which is what is usually seen in these trucks.


I have 30kmiles(48Kkm) and also show single digits on wear metals.


I do show single digit silicon(using foam filter) 4-6 ppm which is approaching the vigin oil numbers.


The soot--is higher than I what I showed at 5kmiles. Mine read 0.2 versus your 0.8. Oilguard says soot at 4% is a problem.

Thanx Ron.



I'm still trying to make sense of the info. I put a new air
filter in about 5-6000 KLMs ago(3700 miles) Hoping that is the
reason for high silicon level. Filter not as efficient at new?

Max here is how mine match up @ 55K with 5600 on the oil. Later! Frank


Yours Mine


Aluminum 4 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 2
Chromium 3 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 0
Copper 7 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 14
Iron 9 13
Lead 3 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 6
Tin 2 0
Silicon 12&nbsp ; &nbsp ;&nbsp ; &nbsp ; 8
Potassium 0 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 4
Sodium 6 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 2
Moly 0 &nbsp ; ; &nbsp ; 1
Water 0.1 &am p;nb sp; 0.0
Oxidation 2.8 &am p;nb sp;
Viscosity @ 100 13.7
Glycol None dtected&nbsp ; &nbsp ; 0.0
Fuel <2&nbsp ; &nbsp ; 0.5
TBN 10.0
Nitration <2.0
Soot 0.8




Edited by: Frank Blum

Thanx Frank.



Anyone else have an analisis they want to post for comparison, please feel free to do so.

7500 hard miles on Mobile Delvac 1300 w/ Oil Guard bypass filtration. Was using Chevron Delo but switched to Delvac 1300 because I prefer their add pac. Much more Molybdenum and Magnesium. Analysis said to continue running this oil but I drain at every 7500 or by the oil life monitor. Which ever comes first.


Contaminants: Copper 9 ; Iron 4; Chrome 0; lead 3; Aluminum 3; Silicon 8; Sodium 6; Tin 0; Water 0; Fuel 0; Antifreeze 0


Additives: Calcium 3150; Magnesium 408; Phosphorus 1350; Zinc 1530; Molybdenum 38

Here are the results from the lastest analysis and the previous two. From left to right, 32k with 4500 miles on oil, 24k with 4000 on oil and at 15,600 with 5000 miles on oil. SUS visc.on latest sample was 75.9 and flashpoint was 445 with no fuel dilution. About 1/3 the miles on the last sample was pulling a 7000# travel trailer. All oil used was Delo 15W40. Note moly and boron in last sample. I think some of the new CI-4 plus was in that sample.

<BLOCKQUOTE>code:
<HR>

Aluminum: 2 2 2
Chromium: 0 0 1
Iron: 6 9 12
Copper: 5 9 20
Lead: 6 6 6
Tin: 1 2 3
Molybdenum: 121 1 1
Nickel: 0 0 0
Mangaanese: 0 0 0
Silver: 0 0 0
Titanium: 0 0 0
Potassium: 0 3 4
Boron: 68 1 1
Silicon: 10 10 14
Sodium: 2 2 2
Calcium: 3537 3880 3152
Magnesium: 7 8 11
Phosphorus: 1228 1251 1219
Zinc: 1342 1395 1391
Barium: 0 0 0</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>Edited by: wlkjr

Thanx guys. Wondering what would be considered normal for the Duramax. Realize that other factors affect.....
Edited by: Max Owner

All these are well below max acceptable levels. I remember someone posting the allowable max for these numbers but I can't remember which thread it was in. Maybe someone with the numbers will chime in.

Here is mine:
22K on Engine, 6705 on Delvac 1300 15W40
Alum 4
Chrm 1
Iron 9
Copper 9
Lead 6
Tin 3
Silicon: 18
Moly 40
Visc. 74.3
Flashpoint: 420
Fuel: neg
Antifreeze: neg
Water: neg
Insolubles: .1
TBN: 10.6

Going to try Rotella T Syn 5W40 next OCI.

Here are my last 2 UOAs. The numbers on the left are with Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40, & on the right with Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic.

Miles on oil 8076/8195
Miles on truck 41135/49330
Alum 3/2
Chrom 1/1
Iron 8/12
Copper 3/3
Lead 3/5
Tin 1/1
Moly 37/6
Boron 28/2
Silicon 10/9
Visc 78.3/76.6
Flashpoint 415/430
Fuel <.5/<.5
Antifreeze 0/0
Water 0/0
Insolubles .4/.4
TBN 9.3/6.2

I left out most of the additive #s.

The Rotella didn't hold up near as well as the Delvac 1300, I'm guessing partly because it still has a CH-4 rating. I have Delo 400 in the truck now & will test it in a couple of weeks, & then put Mobil 1 5w-40 syn in for the winter.

My last oil report showed lead at nine. truck is an 03 with 40000 miles. Blackstone labs said it wasn't high but neede to be watched. last two reports were lead three then nine. At what point should i be concerned. :eek:

My last oil report showed lead at nine. truck is an 03 with 40000 miles. Blackstone labs said it wasn't high but neede to be watched. last two reports were lead three then nine. At what point should i be concerned. :eek:High lead content usually points to bearing corrosion/wear. I really wouldn't worry at all about 9 ppm. Acceptable Lead levels range from 40-90 ppm. To be conclusive as far as bearing wear via an oil analysis you should also see higher Cooper,silver and/or tin. Copper can be tricky as it is in many engine metals that break in. Also copper levels can be elevated due to a leaky air filter. A copper level increase based on a filter leak is usually also accompanied by high silicon levels.

If you can post the whole report along with that drain interval when the sample was taken it would be easier to see the big picture and comment on the possibilities if any.

Also if anyone is interested I located and can post the info that contains the max for each contaminate.

a bear wrote: "Also if anyone is interested I located and can post the info that contains the max for each contaminate."

I'd like to see that!

Josh

High lead content usually points to bearing corrosion/wear. I really wouldn't worry at all about 9 ppm. Acceptable Lead levels range from 40-90 ppm. To be conclusive as far as bearing wear via an oil analysis you should also see higher Cooper,silver and/or tin. Copper can be tricky as it is in many engine metals that break in. Also copper levels can be elevated due to a leaky air filter. A copper level increase based on a filter leak is usually also accompanied by high silicon levels.

If you can post the whole report along with that drain interval when the sample was taken it would be easier to see the big picture and comment on the possibilities if any.

Also if anyone is interested I located and can post the info that contains the max for each contaminate. That would be a great reference document to have 'a bear'!!!

Note: These are average numbers used but depending on your type of equipment may be higher or lower. Most reports have charts listed on the back to explain the severity of that component in ppm.
<TABLE cellPadding=2 width="90%" border=0><TBODY><TR align=left><TD colSpan=4>Table I. Engine problems predicted with oil analysis.</TD></TR><TR align=left><TD colSpan=4><HR width="100%" SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Indicator</TD><TD>Acceptable Levels</TD><TD>Engine Problem</TD><TD></TD><TR align=left><TD colSpan=4><HR width="100%" SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Silicon (Si) and
Aluminum (Al)</TD><TD>10 to 30 ppm</TD><TD>Dirt ingestion</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Iron (Fe) <TD>100 to 200 ppm</TD><TD>Wear of cylinder liner, valve and gear train, oil pump, rust in system</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Chromium (CR)</TD><TD>10 to 30 ppm</TD><TD>Piston ring wear</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Copper (CU)</TD><TD>10 to 50 ppm</TD><TD>Bearings and bushings wear, oil cooler passivating,radiator corrosion</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Lead (Pb)*</TD><TD>40 to 100 ppm</TD><TD>Bearing corrosion</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Copper (CU) and
Lead (Pb)*</TD><TD>10 to 50 ppm</TD><TD>Bearing lining wear</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Aluminum (Al)</TD><TD>10 to 30 ppm</TD><TD>Piston and piston thrust bearing wear</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Silver and
Tin</TD><TD>2 to 5 ppm
10 to 30 ppm</TD><TD>Wear of bearings</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Viscosity Change</TD><TD>
</TD><TD>Lack of lubrication</TD><TD></TD><TR vAlign=top><TD>Water/Anti-freeze</TD><TD>
</TD><TD>Coolant leak or condensation</TD><TD></TD><TR align=left><TD colSpan=4><HR width="100%" SIZE=1></TD></TR><TR align=left><TD colSpan=4>* Significant as wear metal, only for engines using unleaded and diesel fuel.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Nice chart a bear.
I do think the fe should be less than 100ppm to be on the safer side.

Nice chart a bear.
I do think the fe should be less than 100ppm to be on the safer side.
I agree. The chart shows those as acceptable levels but I would feel more comfortable with listing those lower end numbers as max. The DMax is some of the cleanest I've seen next to natural gas engines running 24/7. With the numbers we see posted here I expect these engines will last a loooong time. Now if we can just fix the fuel system issues. :confused:

That's great info, a bear.

burkm, a 9 reading for lead certainly isn't a high number. I'm sure Blackstone only commented on it because it had risen compared to your last two tests. Did you change to a different brand or viscosity of oil since your last two tests? The reason I ask is because my iron & lead numbers increased when I switched to synthetic oil the last time.

Lost touch when we switched over....

Miles on unit:.....15,120
Miles on oil:.........8,523

.....................PPM
Aluminum:..........2
Chromium:..........1
Iron:................49
Copper:..........999 - Abnormal
Lead:...............46 - Abnormal
Tin:...................0
Molybdenum:.......0
Nickel:................0
Mangaanese:......Not Reported
Silver:................3
Titanium:............0
Potassium:..........0
Boron:................7
Silicon:.............29 - Abnormal
Sodium:..............0
Calcium:.........3986
Magnesium:........30
Phosphorus:....1187
Zinc:.............1337
Barium:...............0
Vanadium:...........0

Fuel: Less Than 1% volume
Vis @ 40 C: N/A
Vis @ 100 C: 13.42
Water: 0% Volume
Soot/Solids: 0.1% weight
Glycol: Negligible

TBN:.....7.26
Oxid:...14.0
Nitr:....12.0
F-soot:0.03
Change?: YES

Recommendations:
Normal for break-in; change oil and filters.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
The high copper number has me spooked, and the Silicon number is disapointing.
I expect to see both come down on the next analysis.
This is the first analysis I have had done on this engine. There is no history to compare it to yet.

Who do you guys use for analysis?

Thanks, Brian.

Who do you guys use for analysis?

Thanks, Brian.


Brian,
I use Oil Analysts, Inc. Amsoil is affilliated with them in some way.

There are other oil analysis services out there. A quick search on the web will turn up several.

Thanks,
HB

I found a Kenworth truck dealership in my area. Have machine right on site.

Maybe in yours, you can check around the local truck shops. However I see that my analises doesn't have all that some of the others do.

Click here for 03 Duramax UOA report (http://community.webshots.com/photo/65003591/229808739UoqnFU) from AVLube (http://www.avlube.com/)

5055 miles on Mobil Delvac-1... Sample taken at 34329 miles.

Filters: AC Delco AirFilter, Baldwin B1441 Full Flow & OilGuard Bypass (http://community.webshots.com/album/65003591xTSYrR) (with internal neodymium magnets (http://community.webshots.com/photo/65003591/229822313paMlbM))

:)

Click here for 03 Duramax UOA report (http://community.webshots.com/photo/65003591/229808739UoqnFU) from AVLube (http://www.avlube.com/)

5055 miles on Mobil Delvac-1... Sample taken at 34329 miles.

Filters: AC Delco AirFilter, Baldwin B1441 Full Flow & OilGuard Bypass (http://community.webshots.com/album/65003591xTSYrR) (with internal neodymium magnets (http://community.webshots.com/photo/65003591/229822313paMlbM))

:)
What are the internal neodymium magnets for? Where do you get them?

Thanks, Brian.

Brian,

As an experiment I added the (very strong) neodymium magnets to the inside of the Oilguard to catch ferrous (iron/steel) particles. It’s the same principal as a magnetic oil drainplug except it has the advantage of being in the bypass filter oil flow path. I haven’t changed the bypass filter since inserting the magnets so I’m not sure how much they are picking up. These magnets come in many shapes and sizes and are available online and from hobby suppliers. Here is one source: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp

:)

Bill,

Thanks. I'm sure you will post your results--I'm curious, as well.

Brian.

Just FYI it is very helpful to get your analysis interpreted. We recommend by Dyson Analysis (http://bobistheoilguy.com/terry.html)

Terry does great work interpreting your data. Terry only interprets the data so you can have any lab run it for you and forward the results to Terry.

Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html) are a good lab to use.

Our products would no doubt help soot levels and keep your oil from oxidizing.

Refer here for UOA's (http://freetrial.softvu.com/cn/Relay/Relay2/preview_launch.asp?p_draftId=6d61acaf244d4ccd9dfa0 9cc564a319a) with our products

Jeff

Brian,

As an experiment I added the (very strong) neodymium magnets to the inside of the Oilguard to catch ferrous (iron/steel) particles. It’s the same principal as a magnetic oil drainplug except it has the advantage of being in the bypass filter oil flow path. I haven’t changed the bypass filter since inserting the magnets so I’m not sure how much they are picking up. These magnets come in many shapes and sizes and are available online and from hobby suppliers. Here is one source: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp

:) Do you know what the temperature rating of the magnets you used are?
According to the site above, the magnets will loose strength when operated
above their max operating temp (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/specs.asp)
Looks like the minimum rating to use would be N35SH....

thanks,

T.

I find this amazing and frightening at the same time. I was told by what seemed to be a responsible and intelligent member of the dealer who told me not to change the oil until 7500 miles because doing it too soon would result in noises of air popping if done too soon. I changed at 6800 and switched to AMSOIL 5W30. At 13463 I added the AMSOIL duel filter system. My filter changes have been good except that copper was about 35 every 7500 miles. Since I changed the filters every 7500 miles but did not change the oil until 15000 miles, the Oil Analyzers indicate that a 35 Copper on the first measurement was OK but a 68 on the 2nd measurement was bad. The thing was that I only added 2 to 3 quarts in a 15000 miles use so the 65 Copper at 15000 miles was double what was measured at 7500 miles. My last measurement got screwed up because I dropped the bottle when loading the oil from the drain hole instead of sucking oil out of the measuring tube with a plastic tube.

Date 08/23/2002 02/09/2003 08/15/2003 10/15/2004
Measure Mileage 6821 15776 7527 14754
Vehicle Mileage 13463 22599 30126 37353
Iron 24 41 15 49
Lead 12 24 14 41
Copper 38 65 35 173
Aluminum 7 3 2 4
Silicon 39 36 9 24
Boron 31 10 2 2
Magnesium 17 100 28 44
Calcium 4341 4043 3970 3998
Phosphorus 1230 1148 1062 1146
Zinc 1350 1313 1336 1331

Am I losing more copper because I am using the AMSOIL oil with a different reaction to the engine, because I am getting oil analyzed by Oil Analyzers which measure differently than other labs, or because my truck is breaking in differently than others?

With those results I would be looking carefully at the air intake / air filtration system on your truck. Silicon, copper and lead all look high for attempting extended drains IMHO. If it were me, I'd stay with the 7,500 mile or less drain intervals for a bit and see if your levels come down and stabilize and skip the extended drains for a little while. It looks like you've only done 3 or 4 drains in almost 40,000 miles. Your numbers won't compare well at all to mine because I had at least 7 to 8 drains when I was near your milage. My copper was 13ppm, lead 10ppm and silicon 10ppm after 4 complete changes by the time the truck had 15,000 miles, no by-pass filter at that time. A 22,000 mile interval with 5 qts of make up oil for filter changes put me at 7 ppm copper, 9 ppm lead and 8 ppm silicon. This was when I had 91,000 miles on it and with the by-pass filter. All of my results are from one lab.

Here is my first oil analysis. I had 20,077miles on the engine at the time of sample and just under 4987 miles on the oil. I use Chevron Delo 400 15W40 and the AC Delco air filter and oil filter.

Wear Metals:
Iron 11
Chromium 0
Lead 3
Copper 15
Tin 5
Aluminum 1
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Contaminates:
Silicon 7
Boron 99
Sodium 5
Potassium 2
Additives:
Magnesium 10
Calcium 2549
Phosphorous 1442
Zinc 1637
Molybdenum 196
Physical Analysis:
Fuel A
Water <.1% by vol.
Glycol N
Visc 100c 13.8
Other:
TBN 9.35
Soot <.1
Oxidation 15.00
Nitration 7.00

>4(c) 236
>6(c) 129
>14(c) 22
>25(c) 4
>50(c) 0
>100(c) 0
ISO 15/14/12


Opinions?

OK, here's mine...

'03 @ 30k with Chevron Delo 400 after 5k miles:

(all ppm)
iron -- 11
chromium -- 1
lead -- 9
copper -- 8
tin -- 0
Aluminum -- 3
nickel -- 0
silver -- 0
silicon -- 12
boron -- 0
sodium -- 5
magnesium -- 28
calcium -- 3116
barium -- 0 (like in the ass juice?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif )
phosphorus -- 1111
molybdenum -- 0
titanium -- 0
vanadium -- 0
potassium -- 0

fuel -- < 1%
vis @ 100c -- 15.09
water -- 0%
soot/solids -- 0.1%/wt
glycol -- neg.

report came back as oil still suitable for continued use, no corrective action required.

Any Comments?

thanks!
Don
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