As the title indicates there's a device in development currently that will give you instant heat within 30 seconds of operation. This device has been packaged to be included on 2008 Dodge Ram diesels. GM is deciding on it's future for their trucks this Saturday, 11/20/2004. The test is being conducted on my personal 2003, 2500HD Dmax/allie.


Please include any feedback that you feel might be necessary for future development issues. We're trying to establish an aftermarket boxed product for all the Big 3 manufacturers units. This will include the unit, brackets, plumbing and an installation video.

How does this differ from the block heater we already have, or the fuel-fired units like the Espar?

Steve

It would be nice not having to idle for 20 min. before take off. Don't really care about the cabin temp. the heated seats work pretty good but it would save on engine warm up time.

Ahh heat! You bet I would.

Steve.........this device resembles an A/C compressor. On our vehicles it would mount perfectly where the secondary alternator would go. It runs off the serpentine drive belt and has a limited duty cycle. It only is functioning until the engine coolant can take over the heating of the cabin, and we know how long that takes in cold weather. Just think about it................start your truck and within 30 seconds you've got real heat, not lukewarm air.

Sounds like a great idea! Will this type of device be available for older models as a retrofit?

I agree heat is good but the 20 minute warm up time is sooooo long and painfull.

Roughly what kind of $$$?

I'd be interested if it was under 1k or so.

sounds good, i know on my truck if its not plugged in on my 15 mile commute i just barely get good heat when its 10 deg out

Max Power........I know it's hard to see the question above, but this device will be marketed below $500.00 with all necessary mounting hardware.


I've also invited the "Genius" behind the development of this device to join in. He should be in here shortly to elaborate on the technical aspects of his invention.

Heck Ya, some thing like that would be awsome, winters here in
Steamboat it can seem like all day before a truck gets warms enough
that you can feal the heat.

I don't see why this isn't already available. Should be easy
enough, but there are many things that would be nice that aren't
available. People just haven't thought of them or there isn't
enough demand. I think this is something that many people would
jump on in a heartbeat.



Dennis

You ought to move this to the 2500/3500 trucks forum or the accessories forum. . .

Max Power


We're planning on releasing the technology (known as a Liquid Heat Generator) for the Winter of '05.


The sell price will be in the $300 - $400 range.

Does it have a clutch so that it isn't robbing hp when it is not needed?

Max Power


The LHG has a control Valve that regulates heat (and load on the engine) as its needed. The output ranges from 1kW to 4kW (at Idle).


At cold start, the LHG produces maximum heat output (4+kW). As the engine warms up, the LHG backs off by electronic control. Eventually, the LHG disengages by means of an electric clutch.

SIGN ME UP

Sounds Gucci. . . bring it on. . .

Interesting. Sounds like the perfect thing for our cold Canadian winters. I will be first in line.

How does this differ from the block heater we already have, or the fuel-fired units like the Espar?
Steve



Steve


The block heater and fuel fired heaters are designed to pre-heat the block, because the engine inherently takes so long to warm up.


Our 'Rapid Supplemental Heater' (known as a Liquid Heat Generator - LHG) provides significant heat as soon as you start the engine.


Typically with an LHG installed, the heater duct air temperature will rise in temperature by 70 - 100 Deg.F in under 2 minutes.


The colder the outside temperature, the better the device works. Although the heater initially dedicates itself to the cab temperature, it also sends 'surplus' heat back to the engine to speed up warm-up. In addition, the extra 'work' that the engine is doing to drive the LHG, also reduces engine warmup time.

Ok gentlemen.............JJSanger is the mastermind behind this device. Any and all technical questions can be answered by him. Also, click on his website to see the device up close and personal.


http://www.VentechLHG.com


Hope you all are staying warm http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Well I live in the Yukon Territory and have been thinking about geting a Webesto heater for my truck. This thing sounds good though. hope they get it going soon.

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This one will be on the 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel.

Jake


The LHG was designed specifically to replace the device you show (supplied by Denso). The Denso produces 1.3kW at Idle RPM and the heat that it produces is shared between the engine &amp; heater core. In comparison, the LHG produces over 4kW at Idle and dedicates this power to the heater core.


The 'improvement' in heater perfromance that the Denso produces is marginal (If you are interested; I'll show you some test data comparing the Denso with the LHG).

I really like this idea. It has quite a few advantages over a fuel fired heater such as the espar and webasto units.


1. Much lower cost.
2. Much easier installation (DIY?)
3. Faster warm up
4. Engine will already be running so it won't kill the battery running the blower
5. No stink
6. It adds load to your engine therefor you are increasing the engines ability to produce heat.

Of course the disadvantages are that it is not a pre-warmer, something that doesn't concern myself. Also it won't be available until next fall. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif


With modern diesels and synthetic oils, cold weather starting is much easier. The only disadvantage is that they still take a long time to warm up. This solves that problem. That problem is probably every diesel owners biggest complaint. Soon you will be able to have the best of both worlds for ~$500. Who wouldn't want one? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif


This in conjunction with a remote starter would be ideal for me.


Edited by: Max Power

I voted not interested because I live in a warmer climate but if I lived up north I wouldn't hesitate to jump on one of these. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif

Well, I guess I'll have to dump my dual alternator setup - count me in for buying one of these when they come out. I'll even volunteer to test one on my '02 for you this winterhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif! On those sub-zero days here, It can take my truck 10 - 15 miles (15 - 20 minutes) to really generate heat - and every time I have to stop for a red light, it actually loses ground and cools off again. I hope the limited duty cycle will allow it to operate for this period of time - including stop light time.


Great idea!


Don

When it is really cold out and I have ice on the windshield it would be nice to have the warm air to remove it from the windshield before I take off. Because if the truck is not warm before I take off the cold air blowing on the windshield keeps the ice there for miles and miles and miles.


Count me in... Warm air GOODhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Steve

This sounds like a great idea from alot of aspects, but I am sort of a skeptic on things that seem to be simple that has taken a while to come out with.


Question- If we drive our trucks hard (full throttle right out of the gate) when it is still cold we stand a chance of blowing seals or (correct me if I am wrong) cracking manifolds or other things. Is there a worry of damaging things if you warm them up to fast?


Will this have any adverse effect on the turbo, oil, or anything of that matter? And how long has this been in testing?


Just asking questions. Help me out if I am wrong.


If this is any easy and fix and cost effective then we should be able to apply for some sort of government rate for lowering our emissions due to the reduced time we have to keep it running when it is cold. Colder vehicles produce more polution.

Ahh heat! You bet I would.


Brrrrrr I need this thing before the -30C weather hits .....Sign me up and deliver before Xmas and I'll owe ya one.


Out of curiosity ...... how difficult is the install?

Well, I guess I'll have to dump my dual
alternator setup - count me in for buying one of these when they come
out. I'll even volunteer to test one on my '02 for you this winterhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif!
On those sub-zero days here, It can take my truck 10 - 15 miles
(15 - 20 minutes) to really generate heat - and every time I
have to stop for a red light, it actually loses ground and cools
off again. I hope the limited duty cycle will allow it to operate
for this period of time - including stop light time.


Great idea!


Don



Do you not use a winter cover? Thanks,

Dennis

akdiesel


This device has taken ten years to develop and although looks simple (see our website www.VentechLHG.com (http://www.VentechLHG.com)), it's actually quite complex within!


Regarding driving your truck hard out the gate, warming the engine fluids quickly won't do any damage to the engine but it will do it some good.


The results to the vehicle performance is only positive (as well as to the driving experience as a whole: Very comfortable conditions within a couple of minutes).


The device has been tested extensively by 2 of the Big 3 with very favorable results. Expect to see the technology as an option, or maybe even stock on some platforms, within the next couple of years. You will be able to get it sooner through after-market distibutors &amp; install it yourself.





This sounds like a great idea from alot of aspects, but I am sort of a skeptic on things that seem to be simple that has taken a while to come out with.


Question- If we drive our trucks hard (full throttle right out of the gate) when it is still cold we stand a chance of blowing seals or (correct me if I am wrong) cracking manifolds or other things. Is there a worry of damaging things if you warm them up to fast?


Will this have any adverse effect on the turbo, oil, or anything of that matter? And how long has this been in testing?


Just asking questions. Help me out if I am wrong.


If this is any easy and fix and cost effective then we should be able to apply for some sort of government rate for lowering our emissions due to the reduced time we have to keep it running when it is cold. Colder vehicles produce more polution.

akdiesel


Just to clarify. Driving your (cold) truck at WOT out the gate is bad for the truck. Warming the fruid quickly with the LHG is not.


Thanks again.

AltaLad


The LHG kit can be installed within a couple of hours. There install requires mounting a bracket that carries the LHG, much like an alternator. Some minor hose changes (and the addition of three more hoses to the bulkhead connection point to the heater core, 12V hookup and the location of an illuminated panel switch.


The device operates automatically but you can also 'boost' the heater performance anytime by pressing the switch.





Ahh heat! You bet I would.


Brrrrrr I need this thing before the -30C weather hits .....Sign me up and deliver before Xmas and I'll owe ya one.


Out of curiosity ...... how difficult is the install?

Interested.....



However.....



It sounds like there will be an "overide" switch (?)



Up north couple of years ago; on the highway I had to stop and put my
coat back on because cab temp dropped. Winter fronts on.
Truck temp was dropping as we got further north.



For clarity; it DOES plumb into factory ventilation system?



Also, please don't forget about Canadian suppliers.



P.S. Price could be an issue with me. Exchange, etc. If reasonable, yes.


Edited by: Max Owner

Max


In the OEM installation, there's no panel switch. The device comes on &amp; off based on air inlet temp (outside temp), coolant temp, load on the accessory drive, etc.


Although the duty cycle is quite low in the OEM arrangement, the LHG can be activated in less cold conditions if you favor a more toasty cabin.


Yes. It does plumb into the stock factory ventilation system.


Regarding price; we think our target price will be very reasonable, especially for what you will get. The device far out-performs a fuel fired heater (no need to pre-heat) and it will retail for 1/3 to 1/2 the price. Unlike the FFH, you can also install it yourself.





Interested.....

However.....

It sounds like there will be an "overide" switch (?)

Up north couple of years ago; on the highway I had to stop and put my coat back on because cab temp dropped. Winter fronts on. Truck temp was dropping as we got further north.

For clarity; it DOES plumb into factory ventilation system?

Also, please don't forget about Canadian suppliers.

P.S. Price could be an issue with me. Exchange, etc. If reasonable, yes.

jeremys,


Thanks for the explaination.

When and where will these be available in the aftermarket?

I have a 8 1/2 foot western plow on my truck a few pass with that and the truck is toasty warm.


Ps 90 % of the time my window is down summer or winter who needs climate control when you have mother nature.

Frost in my case is an issue. Don't scrape windows. Always seem to put scratches on windows from scraping.



Thanx Jeremy.

Sounds like a great idea, I'll wait and see what you'all think about it before I jump in...

ttt

need any beta testers ??

Slow warm up times are a pain....this may be just the trick. I have one question, though......what do these units use for fuel? Are they plumbed into the fuel line somehow?

Tom

The way I see this device, it just heats the cabin and not the engine.
So you still should wait for some heat to develop in the engine before you drive it.

My remote start does both, warms the cabin and the motor.

The way I see this device, it just heats the cabin and not the engine.
So you still should wait for some heat to develop in the engine before you drive it.From what I gather is that you hook up to the radiator as well so this would cycle warm liquid through out your system.

Baco

The LHG takes energy from the crank (via the serpentine belt) and converts the energy into heat. The converfsion is about 98% efficient so engine fuel is consumed (slightly more) while the supplemental heater is engaged. The LHG shuts down as soon as the engine is up to temperature.


Slow warm up times are a pain....this may be just the trick. I have one question, though......what do these units use for fuel? Are they plumbed into the fuel line somehow?

Tom

Trapman

The LHG heats the engine & cab, but puts priority to the cab. The device has a significant imapct on engine warmup as well as cabin heat.


The way I see this device, it just heats the cabin and not the engine.
So you still should wait for some heat to develop in the engine before you drive it.

Is there any way to have the best of both worlds? A dual Alt and the heater?

Thanks,

JT

That would be my question as well. Seeing as I've already got the dual alts which I do need. Without dual alts, some other systems would suffer. Is there maybe a way to run this off an electric motor instead of using the sepentine belt?

Could it be operated manually? I do not load the engine until the glow plugs and intake heater are off. It gives it a half minute or so for oil pressure to stabilize, make sure all cylinders are on line, and everything has oil flowing. I'd rather not make it work immediately upon releasing the start switch. This does sound like a good product.

Steve

ive got a couple of questions for JJ that i want to make sure i understand - the cab will warm up quicker and the motor as well ? how much more efficient is the unit in regards to warming up the engine ? and when will this be available to us ?

Can we get one now and make our own brackets, etc? Cold weather is on the way.

Try this....

Stick a timer in the wall outlet. Run a cord from it to the engine heater. Set it a couple of hours ahead when you need the engine/pssenger compartment to be warm. Problem solved.

Need to be ready to go anytime? Leave it plugged in. Very low electrical draw.

Hey, how bout' a remote starter. Mine, 15 minutes. Ain't 80 degrees, but warm enough.

I keep my second alternator unbelted. Backup. Doubt if I'd trade for a foo/foo heater.

Get a dress....

I would love one of those up here in the Yukon. -40 F takes a while for the old DMAX to warm up!!! Sounds like excatly what I need!

Bringing it back up. Any more info?

Re posting. Something got lost in forum tansfer....

Try this....


Hey, how bout' a remote starter. Mine, 15 minutes. Ain't 80 degrees, but warm enough.

I keep my second alternator unbelted. Backup. Doubt if I'd trade for a foo/foo heater.

Get a dress....That is all fine and nice where it doesn't actually get what I call "cold." It is -26 F here today. I could let my truck run for an hour and it would never get warm. I drove 20 miles round trip and it finally got comfortable in the cab. (BTW that was highway driving too) I would buy one of the kits right now if they were available. Hopefully tomorrow the high will be warmer than -10 F. I also have a remote starter and High idle kit on my truck.

Any new updates on this? The web sight doesn't really give you anywhere to go for more information. I am interested but always worry when a post goes stale for a few months. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Also, a buddy of mine installed an exhaust brake on his diesel and uses it when warming up his truck and said it made a huge difference. He is reaching operating temp in 5 minutes. How does this work? Worth the money?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

spartd <o:p></o:p>

:grd:

I recently received this email from Ventech when I inquired about it:

Andy;

Sorry for the delay in responding to your email.

Ventech will be launching an after-market kit of the Series 400 LHG (Rapid Supplemental Heater) for the winter of ‘05/06. In the near future, a new website will launch where you can pre-order the self-install kit. We will also be offering some discount for early buyers. The List price of the unit (before any discounts or special offers) is $499 plus shipping.



I’m sorry we can’t help you right now. I know its cold out there!

Sincerely
Jeremy J. Sanger

Ventech, LLC
http://www.ventechlhg.com/

I remember about 10 years ago I watched a program about a heater system that claim will do the same thing. If I remember right it would run the coolant into a tank that is like a thermos. After you shut the car/truck of the coolant would remain hot in this tank for a few days. When you start the vehical again the warm coolant is there for the heat. I thought it was interesting back then but never heard anything since. I guess it never worked. This new design sounds much better.

Dave

What about running a RealAC PTO generator, with 12KW output?
Run a few hot water heater elements in the cooling circuit of the
truck. Big time hot water for defrost.

Oh yeah, it would cost 6x as much.

As the title indicates there's a device in development currently that will give you instant heat within 30 seconds of operation. This device has been packaged to be included on 2008 Dodge Ram diesels. GM is deciding on it's future for their trucks this Saturday, 11/20/2004. The test is being conducted on my personal 2003, 2500HD Dmax/allie.


Please include any feedback that you feel might be necessary for future development issues. We're trying to establish an aftermarket boxed product for all the Big 3 manufacturers units. This will include the unit, brackets, plumbing and an installation video.

Was reading a post on another web site that the new diesel Jeep Liberty has a system very similar to this. Was reported they have heat in about a minute or so. Can't wait for this to get out on the market!

I voted No, but it was awful close. It wouldn't surprize me if I gave the nod when actually doing a purchase.

Since I park in a semi-heated garage, I have heat spewing at just over a mile. That's with maybe 5 minutes (or less) of idle time prior to taking off. For the guys that park outdoors.....why not just plug your block heater in?

Package this one up with the heated washer fluid idea and dump them in the nearest trash recepticle - Must be the same company they got heat on the brain - :muahaha:

Since I park in a semi-heated garage, I have heat spewing at just over a mile. That's with maybe 5 minutes (or less) of idle time prior to taking off. For the guys that park outdoors.....why not just plug your block heater in?
That would be fine and nice, but at -20F to -40F it doesn't help much. I too park in a heated garage, but as soon as I hit the outside I can feel the cold air. By the time I drive a couple of miles it is probably 20-30 degrees colder in the cab. Not to mention the engine never reaches anywhere close to operating temp. Now, when it is only about 0 to -10F it isn't that bad. I can live with the cold. I just hope this will work as good as they say it will.

I can't plug my truck in.