Trying to see if there is a trend. I currently run an emulsifier but since todays additives were developed for lower pressure applications I can't help but wonder how they stand up to + 23000. In short we are seeing higher system pressures but additives have remained the same. Does the emulsifier water encapsulation process withstand the pressure extremes? Does water separate in the system post filtration with demulsifiers? I'm hoping we will have enough votes to see a trend in relation to injector problems so I decided to give it a shot. Not so much by brand but emulsification/demulsification alone.

I'm covering all bases in a warmer climate. I'm running Stanadyne Lubricity, Stanadyne Perf Jr., and Amsoil cetane improver.

Awe man, I'm the only one so far who hasn't used additives and had
injector failure... come on don't make me the minority!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

I'm not sure how to vote http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif as I have used both de and emulsifiers and had injector issues. I have been using emulsifies and cetane boost since the new injectors (IIRC) and had no further issues. Edited by: chuntag95

a bear; this should be a real good poll, real good idea. me I demulsifiy no injector problems.

I demulsify with Stanadyne. I have about 6K on new injectors, and haven't had a problem since the replacement of the original injectors.

Emulsify 12/24/7 and Cat 2um going in for all 8 on the 22nd.Soooooo in my eyes the whole theory on final filtering and lubricity water dispersement is Bologna. If you have the "bad" injector (s) it doesn't matter,it's going down.


Perhaps ,just maybe,in the long haul,but I doubt I'll keep it that long or any truck for that matter for it to matter ,to me!





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gifEdited by: Mackin

I figured since most here Emulsify in order to get equally representative data the poll would have to be broken down into the 3 classes. Then at the end we can get a percentage from each class. Hopefull we will have enough votes to see a somewhat accurate trend that we may benefit from. Then maybe we can move on to product brands within the best scoring class. Brands may be tough to trend as the votes would be fewer but even if this segment alone is somewhat conclusive it should be helpfull for those like myself trying to decide.

Rotella DFA-For 46,000 mi.

Does anyone know what is the percentage of injectors that fail? As a baseline.

Does anyone know what is the percentage of injectors that fail? As a baseline.


The poll also gives this baseline. Just add the 3 (injector issues) percentage numbers together. So far it looks like about 10%.


On edit it would be helpfull if someone can post the different brands of additives so everyone would know which class they are in. Heres a couple that I'm sure of. Any others would be helpfull.


Primrose=Emulsifier; FPPF=Emulsifier; Stanadyne= Demulsifier


Edited by: a bear

Good point.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif I guess I was wondering if gm had stats they released.


Interesting as well that the majority are going against gm recommendations of de-emulsifiers. 2 to 1

I wouldn't think there is enough responses yet to say this is conclusive but the trend so far would lean toward additives (any) helping somewhat. I would think the cumulative effect of additives and secondary filtration would be even more beneficial. Lets see what happens. Hope we get more votes and this doesn't die. Really need more for a clearer end result.


The score so far as reported: Total injector issues overall = 7.82%


Demulsify = 4.76% ; Emulsify = 6.66% ; No additive = 25%

Stanadyne Performance--ever since I read about it here (about 15k) and most recently double dosing ("injector paranoia"). 2um pre-oem as well (again at 15k) but changed the oem @13k. No smoke yet but an intermittent rough/louder idle at stoplights (again, probably just injector paranoia).


edit: One thing I haven't seen mentioned on injector issues is where in the country the problems are happening. Someone should start a pole indicating what city and state you live in and if you've had injector problems or not. I would think that the information could be plotted on a map by some smarty http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifEdited by: donmiller714

I/VE BEEN FEEDING MY DMAX STANDYNE PERFORMANCE FOR THE LAST 40K MILES, JUST HAD ALL 8 INJECTORS REPLACED AT 81K

Stanadyne Performance--ever since I read about it here (about 15k) and most recently double dosing ("injector paranoia"). 2um pre-oem as well (again at 15k) but changed the oem @13k. No smoke yet but an intermittent rough/louder idle at stoplights (again, probably just injector paranoia).


edit: One thing I haven't seen mentioned on injector issues is where in the country the problems are happening. Someone should start a pole indicating what city and state you live in and if you've had injector problems or not. I would think that the information could be plotted on a map by some smarty http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





Don,


Good point! I find it interesting you say this. I often wondered what the difference would be between the North and South. Problems here in the South appear to be few and far in between. I am good friends with the folks at my dealership and they tell me that fuel system problems are extremely rare. I do know for a fact that winter blends of fuels (#1) has less lubricity and film strength than that of #2 fuel. It would be interesting to see a poll comparing those who seasonally use winter blends vs. plain ole #2 which is used year round here in the South.

FPPF Total Power for me. So far so good....(crossed fingers)..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

Stanadyne Perf. Form. since new. Two injectors replaced @ 9,000 miles.

FPPF=Emulsifier + post OEM Mega Filter ... she may conk out on the way home from work today but currently 78,000+ miles on our early '02 ('01 injectors) without any engine issues (not even a computer reflash) to date

Jim

Mackin:Whats your mileage up to my 01 brother?

I'm at 40k and the lope is getting worse again because its getting cold up here.

Blake

It's just my personal take on additives, but I used Stanadyne religiously in my 1999 6.5TD Tahoe with the Stanadyne injection pump. It's a good additive for the system that it's designed to lubricate, but I'm sticking with FPPF for my Bosch HPCR system!

NWDmax,


I think Mac was at 46K or something low mileaged like that....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif I had 47K first year I owned mine.


Called dealer today, Injectors delivery still undefined. Other truck waiting there just got theirs. Took 5 weeks and 4 days. When they looked on the system for them , said still BO'd, that same day they showed up. So it appears you will get them when they get there. I have put 1156miles on my truck since they told me they are bad. Everything is running like it had.

Emulsify:


Use FPPF Total power & FPPF Cetane Improver


Had one injector act up at 2,000 miles, after using fuel treatments, all injectors check out great, running great, ( fingers crossed ).


22,450 miles, have cat 2micron filter handy, but not installed, by the looks at it, if their going to go, why wait.......


I also have a 30# maul with a long handle just in case the engine get's a mind of it's own.......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

I have used stanadyne since the very first tank full from the dealer.Right off the show room floor.Does this make me immune from problems?Probably not.....because it probably doesn't matter if I would take each individual injector out nightly and put it to bed with milk and cookieshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gifAn inferior product as Mackin stated is an inferior product doomed to failure no matter what you do.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gifOwner's need to make bosch or ieGM step up.Its nice they have extended the warranty out for 01 and 02 and they should have,but my 04 has no better than the 01's.I enjoy the piece of mind of warranty but I don't need warranty I need a bullet proof iron clad injector that won't fail.So when my rig gets high on mileage I won't be sweating bullets.My rambling and .02 only.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif

I have kind of wondered if the percentage of injector failure is the same in Canada and the US?


Is the fuel cleaner in one country or the other or are they both the same?


Is the Bosch Injection system, the Dmax uses, being used in Europe and Asia?


If so are they having the same injector issues North America has?

Something also worth noting is that most fuels leaving the refineries have been treated with demulsifiers. Baker Petrolite is currently the nations largest supplier of these chemicals and they make the claim that 70% of the nations diesel sees their demulsifier. I'll probably drop a bug in one of their chemical engineer's ear when I return. My question being that will an emulsifier perform well in a distillate fuel that has already been treated with demulsifier. After over looking these results I haven't ruled out making the switch but right now I'm still on the fence. :rolleyes:

This is how the numbers tally up so far.

Fuel system issues while using a Demulsifier = 6.1%
Emulsifier = 10.0%
No additive = 21.7%
Fuel injector issues overall avg. = 11.32%

Well its worth repeating for all you emulse/demulse people.

I bought a case of stanadyne (demulse) and then read about water dropping out and rust. So I gave the case to a neighbor.

I then ordered a case of primrose 405 (emulse).

We both started using the additives at the same time.
We both fill up at the same station.
We both have the nictane filter kit.

At 10k miles we changed our filters and cut them open.

His were filled with moderate rust and some water.

Mine were shiny new with no water/rust.

Im with Mikie but not claiming Primrose is the best. I have had no issues with water or rust so far. FPPF also worked good for me.

Anybody use Power Service additive? That's the only thing I've ever used, first in my 6.2(285,000 miles), and now in my Dmax(64,000 miles). Had to replace injection pump once on the 6.2. No fuel system issues at all with the Dmax-Change fiter at 10,000 miles religously, also no pre or post OEM filter.

Bear
Just my 2 cents. The only reason I use an additive is for lubrication due to our fuel quality and the new fuel system being so close in tolarances. Keep it clean and some lub an hopefully it will make it.
My dealer has come up with a new way to clean injectors and I have volunteered my truck. We are gonna do it ever 20 k. Only reason I am doing this is for relationship and I am local for them.

Anybody use Power Service additive? That's the only thing I've ever used, first in my 6.2(285,000 miles), and now in my Dmax(64,000 miles). Had to replace injection pump once on the 6.2. No fuel system issues at all with the Dmax-Change fiter at 10,000 miles religously, also no pre or post OEM filter.
Diesel 66 or anyone, Do you know if the Power Service is a demulsifier or emulsifier. I also like the fact that they produce a summer formula. I was reading the label recently and is says it's alcohol free and their Diesel Kleen formula contains a new anti-friction additive called Slick Diesel which is specifically formulated for low sulfur fuels.

Geno, That's also the main reasons I run additives. I consider the cetane boost just an added plus. Also don't need the winter additives taking up room in the jug and possibly reducing the effectiveness of the other chemicals. Gelling down here is not a problem.

Emulsify with FPPF and Cat 2 micron. Complete set at 18,000 on 03. Filter and additive started at 5000.

Jess

As the result of this poll and other information I have recieved from engineering at Baker petrolite I may be soon be making the switch. Right decision? not sure but the reasoning is there.

I'm in the emulsify category, but with 5 vehicles (4Runner Turbo diesel, 4Runner standard, Bandierante (Toyota 3.6 L standard), Fuso, Nissan Condor. Reduced pump and injector costs by $900 per year per vehicle.
Of course our fuel in Bolivia is not the greatest

Not sure if Power Service is a demulsifier or emulsifier. Bought some more today and the Slick Diesel additive is in the regular formula too, not just Diesel Kleen. Any added lubricity helps!

Had a discussion yesterday and a long reply from Power Service today. Their new products are neither a demulsifier or emulsifier. They are solubilizers. They produce no free water to settle or droplets to pass along through the fuel system. Any condensation is completely disolved within the fuel and becomes part of the fuel itself. And no alcohol is used. I like this way of dealing with water after gathering more and more facts. I have been in touch with additive venders and a Baker Peterolite chemist. It is amazing how emulsifiers and demulsifiers render other additives within the mix less effective. Refering to cleaning and lubricity.

I use Primrose 405 and at 100k miles, still running well on all 8 original injectors. Now, whether I'm sitting on a ticking time bomb or not, time will tell!

MaxRock

currently no additive and no problems at 12k. just bought my first bottle of fppf total power, I hope it doesn't screw up my injectors

a bear,

Maybe Power Service has the answer to water in fuel/condensation issues? It has always worked well for me. I've never had any water in the bottom of my filter, but I always keep my tank full if the truck is sitting.