After looking over the entire system today I am amazed that people are going to the trouble of blocking off the cooling chamber and installing a finger stick. It appears all you have to do to keep exhaust gas out of the intake and keep the computer thinking everything is fine (as well as the GM tech) is space the EGR motor away from the valve. Then every thing works as normal but the valve does not open. Am I missing something here?

You'll still throw a P0401 or some such nonsense for insufficient EGR flow.

... going to the trouble of blocking off the cooling chamber and installing a finger stick. ...

It's really not that much trouble....


...Am I missing something here?

Yes - about 3 years....

Search for threads from the Fall of 2004 for all of the development work...

All of that leg work has been done. Blocking and sticking works and it's cheap, easy. Just buy the darn things and put them in. I've had them in two truck with zero problems.

It's really not that much trouble....

Looks like it to me and from what I've read many others would agree.


Yes - about 3 years....

Search for threads from the Fall of 2004 for all of the development work...

I think I've read most of them---seems to me the verdict is still out. I tend to agree and now more so than ever after my recent problems that the EGR needs to be taken out of play. It seem evident that there are several ways of doing this; apparent that there is more than one that allows the owner to avoid warrenty issues without changing things before going in for warrenty work. You might do some more research.

I know this is a very stupid question... but what does an EGR blocker do? I am having trouble grasping this concept

ride...the EGR blocker is simply and typically a waterjet cut, Stainless Steel, 14 Ga. pce of metal that is inserted between the EGR valve and the air intake..? (I do believe). It stops the exhaust gases from being entrained into the air intake thereby preventing the gumming up of said intake and reducing the amount of soot that is thrown into your cylinders. There are some good pics here of gummed up Air intakes from EGR's.

The finger stick, so named after it's inventor Fingers, is inserted into the electronic harness and once installed will fool the ECM into thinking that the EGR is functioning normally. (first mod I did).

BTW: There are no dumb questions...only un-asked ones. However in saying that...it should be noted that SEARCH does work here.!

rgds,

stk

steakman. Thank you for answering my question and i am very sorry that i did not use the search stupid me! i ask this question because i am going to pick up my LBZ in the next few weeks here. thanks again guys

I think I've read most of them---seems to me the verdict is still out. I tend to agree and now more so than ever after my recent problems that the EGR needs to be taken out of play. It seem evident that there are several ways of doing this; apparent that there is more than one that allows the owner to avoid warrenty issues without changing things before going in for warrenty work. You might do some more research.

What "research" are you talking about? As minisub points out, the "research" has been completed and then studied with a fine toothed comb since the LLYs came out, and it is pretty unanimous that a blocker plate and finger stick/programming solution is a simple and effective answer. Once you have done that, unplug the EGR if you want (I did).

Exactly what alternative are you advocating?

After looking over the entire system today I am amazed that people are going to the trouble of blocking off the cooling chamber and installing a finger stick. It appears all you have to do to keep exhaust gas out of the intake and keep the computer thinking everything is fine (as well as the GM tech) is space the EGR motor away from the valve. Then every thing works as normal but the valve does not open. Am I missing something here?
Why yes you are;) ! The valve can be pushed open. Gotta block it. Do a search for EGR and start reading. If it WERE that easy and it WORKED we would have done it that way:rolleyes: ! If it looks like I am being sarcastic...well I am. Need more coffee!!

The engine has a mass air flow sensor (MAF). It measures how much fresh
air is going thru the intake. The ECM knows how much air should go in for a given RPM and EGR setting. IF you just disable the EGR valve mechanically the engine will likely throw a code because it will see the increased air flow required to make up for the missing exhaust flow going in. This MAF system is also the one that can mess you up with exhaust mods as well ( better flow = too much air for given situation again ).

SOME peoples engines don't throw codes but most do especially if they tow or work the engine hard.

The Fingers Stick, fools the ECM into thinking the EGR is working by modifying the MAF signal based on the EGR signal.

The days of being able to simply screw around with these engines are over as the engines have become too smart! Thankfully guys like Fingers and Kennedy are smarter.

Quote: Why yes you are;) ! The valve can be pushed open. Gotta block it. Do a search for EGR and start reading. If it WERE that easy and it WORKED we would have done it that way:rolleyes: ! If it looks like I am being sarcastic...well I am. Need more coffee!!
__________________
You are correct the valve does push open, I'm not sure what your point is unless you think the valve can open on its own without the motor shaft pushing it. If that was possible then the motor piston would have to be attached to the valve which of course it is not. It is easy if you are capable of fabricating a spacer block----needs to be about 5/8" thick---I'll measure exact when I make mine. I think it also has to have a stop at the same distance that the valve bottoms so that it does not over extend.

You need to block or remove the EGR for racing since it will dump your boost starting at about 26 PSI. The back pressure will blow it off the seat.

You can program out the EGR codes and activation, but you still need to block it.

What "research" are you talking about? As minisub points out, the "research" has been completed and then studied with a fine toothed comb since the LLYs came out, and it is pretty unanimous that a blocker plate and finger stick/programming solution is a simple and effective answer. Once you have done that, unplug the EGR if you want (I did).

Exactly what alternative are you advocating?

One is the relocation of the MAF; the other I've already mentioned. I can't understand blocking things when there is a perfectly good valve already there and easily accessable.

One is the relocation of the MAF; the other I've already mentioned. I can't understand blocking things when there is a perfectly good valve already there and easily accessable.

?? What ARE you talking about partner?? Relocate the MAF to where? Simply unplugging the valve will not prevent codes, though federal tuned trucks will not set the MIL light. Do what you want and believe what you want, but it isn't right.

FWIW, the EGR valve must be plugged in and functional for the Finger Stick to function properly.


My personal preference is to block the EGR and program out the EGR function/codes. For those that can't, there is the Finger Stick.

?? What ARE you talking about partner?? Relocate the MAF to where? Simply unplugging the valve will not prevent codes, though federal tuned trucks will not set the MIL light. Do what you want and believe what you want, but it isn't right.

FWIW, the EGR valve must be plugged in and functional for the Finger Stick to function properly.


My personal preference is to block the EGR and program out the EGR function/codes. For those that can't, there is the Finger Stick.

Banks has real good success with locating the MAF just upstream of the preturbo tube.

If you had read my original post you wouldn't; or should I say shouldn't have said "simply unplugging the valve will not prevent codes", what I was suggesting was clear enough.

Amazes me that some folks want to be so tacky in their responses to something they didn't even take the time to properly read. This thread wasn't meant as an attack on a frail ego.

Banks has real good success with locating the MAF just upstream of the preturbo tube.

This will not prevent codes from blocking the EGR. Banks, and others had issues with there aftermarket intakes setting MAF codes. Turned out to be a problem with the MAF sensor location in the air flow. I think they all have it fixed now.

If you had read my original post you wouldn't; or should I say shouldn't have said "simply unplugging the valve will not prevent codes", what I was suggesting was clear enough.

Clear as mud. What you originally suggested will still set EGR codes. Thought you had moved on to what some of the other posters had suggested. (unplugging)

Amazes me that some folks want to be so tacky in their responses to something they didn't even take the time to properly read. This thread wasn't meant as an attack on a frail ego.

You don't know me real well. Do you? For that matter, we don't know you either. But starting off by telling everyone that they are blowing black smoke out their butt isn't a good start.

I avoid getting involved in these EGR discussions unless someone has a question that others can't answer or answer incorrectly. OR as in your case, stir the pot with questionable information. EGR on these trucks is probably my only claim to fame here on the board. I know it better than I would like to.

Not sure (especially not now) but I thought this board was for the sharing of ideas and information; not in demeaning which is obviously fingers forte. Thanks for your helpfulness.

basically what everyone is trying to say is the ONLY way to cirumvent the EGR was devised 3 years ago when the LLY came out, and it works...its been proven for years. SO why try to reinvent the wheel?

If anyone can figure out a better way, it is Fingers :)

ben

After looking over the entire system today I am amazed that people are going to the trouble of blocking off the cooling chamber and installing a finger stick. It appears all you have to do to keep exhaust gas out of the intake and keep the computer thinking everything is fine (as well as the GM tech) is space the EGR motor away from the valve. Then every thing works as normal but the valve does not open. Am I missing something here?

If you take the EGR motor and housing apart you will find its not really possible to "space the motor out".

and plus.....installing a blocker plate takes 3 minutes? How is "going through the trouble of installing the blocker plate" any more time consuming than installing your "motor spacer" :confused:

Not sure (especially not now) but I thought this board was for the sharing of ideas and information; not in demeaning which is obviously fingers forte. Thanks for your helpfulness.

You come here and post comments like "what are you guys thinking?" and telling members here well versed in the mechanics of LLYs to "do some more research"; all of these came across as inflammatory and needlessly confrontational. Fingers is a standup fellow, a consummate professional, and has done a lot for the DMax community. Taking a swing at him does not sit well with his many friends and acquaintances here.

Your sarcasm was not at all necessary. If you invite meaningful dialogue and exchange helpful ideas, it will be met with the same attitude.

What do you say we all start over?

Well I have a question. I have been using perditor to turn off my egr for a few years now. I have the blocker plate, but have never installed it. Should I install it or forget about it? On a side note my boost has gone as high as 32 psi on a regular basis and never have lost boost or heard the dreaded egr bark since I have turned it off. Heard it on occasion before I turned the egr off...JD:)

Well I have a question. I have been using perditor to turn off my egr for a few years now. I have the blocker plate, but have never installed it. Should I install it or forget about it? On a side note my boost has gone as high as 32 psi on a regular basis and never have lost boost or heard the dreaded egr bark since I have turned it off. Heard it on occasion before I turned the egr off...JD:)

I am pretty sure that tuners like the predator disable the EGR diagnostic routine and prevent codes but do not effect the valve's operation.

If I am correct, you have been preventing codes you probably weren't getting and you might want to drop that plate in...

Ok my queston, well the plate would be realy esey to make. now couldnt you just wire up your own finger stick. i know what the finger stick looks like im gessing that the 3 wires going in get linked together to the two wires coming out. any info will help

Ok my queston, well the plate would be realy esey to make. now couldnt you just wire up your own finger stick. i know what the finger stick looks like im gessing that the 3 wires going in get linked together to the two wires coming out. any info will help



I posted, oh so long ago, the schematic for the LLY Stick. Dual op amp and 8 resistors. The LBZ required a slightly different approach. Still a dual op Amp and 8 resistors, but configured differently. If you know your way around electronics, it shouldn't take you more than a day to figure it out and make your own.

I am pretty sure that tuners like the predator disable the EGR diagnostic routine and prevent codes but do not effect the valve's operation.

If I am correct, you have been preventing codes you probably weren't getting and you might want to drop that plate in...

x2!!

JD Diesel - Before you start the truck up in the morning, turn the key on and leave on (don't start the truck) for about 30 seconds or a minute (this is to ensure that the valve in the EGR is closed), then turn off. Unplug the EGR, connection is jut below the intake tube. Then go for a ride....:D. You should see a noticeable difference with a responsive go-pedal and much quicker spool up times. Once you confirm what I discovered as well, you'll drop that plate in, mine is on the way!!

x2!!

JD Diesel - Before you start the truck up in the morning, turn the key on and leave on (don't start the truck) for about 30 seconds or a minute (this is to ensure that the valve in the EGR is closed), then turn off. Unplug the EGR, connection is jut below the intake tube. Then go for a ride....:D. You should see a noticeable difference with a responsive go-pedal and much quicker spool up times. Once you confirm what I discovered as well, you'll drop that plate in, mine is on the way!!


The valve is always closed when there is no power to the EGR valve positioner. It is spring loaded. No need for the "catch it while it's cold".

Did fingers make a finger stick for the LMM yet?

Oh yeah I forgot to say that I have had the egr unpluged since turning it off with the tuner. Sorry JD;)

OK-----I like the suggestion of starting over; and I truly am searching for info not flame. It just seems that a little controversy here always stirs the most interest but usually some good answers become the end result.
I appologize as I apparently made some a little too mad; not my intent.

Anyway it is apparent that I didn't make myself clear on my alternate idea of prohibiting the exhaust gasses from entering the intake track. Let me take another stab---no pun intended.

The EGR motor drive is and individual unit---most already know this but some may not this also applies to some of the following; the ones who know please bear with me. The EGR valve is normally closed and held so by spring pressure ie in is open out is closed. The motor drive is not attached to the valve but merely pushes in to open it and pulls away to close it. The MAF senses air flow signals the ECM which processes and controls the motor drive.
What I am suggesting is that a spacer be placed between the motor drive and the valve assembly. The spacer needs to be about 5/8" thick (verification is needed for the exact travel of the valve itself); and this spacer will need a bottoming plate and spring to replicate the actual valve action. The motor drive should operate normally this way without activating the actual valve. I say normally as I think the EGR valve position sensor is part of the motor drive itself; if it is not then this modification will not work without setting codes.
Just and idea guys from what i have observed.

The EGR motor drive is and individual unit---most already know this but some may not this also applies to some of the following; the ones who know please bear with me. The EGR valve is normally closed and held so by spring pressure ie in is open out is closed. The motor drive is not attached to the valve but merely pushes in to open it and pulls away to close it. The MAF senses air flow signals the ECM which processes and controls the motor drive.
What I am suggesting is that a spacer be placed between the motor drive and the valve assembly. The spacer needs to be about 5/8" thick (verification is needed for the exact travel of the valve itself); and this spacer will need a bottoming plate and spring to replicate the actual valve action. The motor drive should operate normally this way without activating the actual valve. I say normally as I think the EGR valve position sensor is part of the motor drive itself; if it is not then this modification will not work without setting codes.
Just and idea guys from what i have observed.That sounds 100 times more complicated than putting in a blocker plate, and it still doesn't solve the issue of EGR codes.

That sounds 100 times more complicated than putting in a blocker plate, and it still doesn't solve the issue of EGR codes.

Why does it not solve the code issue?

OK-----I like the suggestion of starting over; and I truly am searching for info not flame. It just seems that a little controversy here always stirs the most interest but usually some good answers become the end result.
I appologize as I apparently made some a little too mad; not my intent.

Anyway it is apparent that I didn't make myself clear on my alternate idea of prohibiting the exhaust gasses from entering the intake track. Let me take another stab---no pun intended.

The EGR motor drive is and individual unit---most already know this but some may not this also applies to some of the following; the ones who know please bear with me. The EGR valve is normally closed and held so by spring pressure ie in is open out is closed. The motor drive is not attached to the valve but merely pushes in to open it and pulls away to close it. The MAF senses air flow signals the ECM which processes and controls the motor drive.
What I am suggesting is that a spacer be placed between the motor drive and the valve assembly. The spacer needs to be about 5/8" thick (verification is needed for the exact travel of the valve itself); and this spacer will need a bottoming plate and spring to replicate the actual valve action. The motor drive should operate normally this way without activating the actual valve. I say normally as I think the EGR valve position sensor is part of the motor drive itself; if it is not then this modification will not work without setting codes.
Just and idea guys from what i have observed.

You're still missing the point I think ;)

the spring is not powerful enough to overcome the VVT's large amount of drive pressure and stay closed. Drive pressure is right around double boost pressure. So at 32 pounds of boost you are pushing ~60psi agains that valve. The spring is not strong enough to hold it closed.

whats wrong with doing a blocker plate?

it does not solve the code issue because even tho the EGR motor is functioning normally, the calculated flow rate thru the EGR and intake (nothing to do with actual motor operation itself) will be wrong and the ECM will set a code. The only way to fix this is with a finger stick, or design your own fooler.

I don't want to get in the middle of this debate but i did have a question about the blocker and stick. Instead of openning up a new thread i decided to use this one since there are quite afew brains on here. I have an 07 LBZ....I've been contemplating on blocking it but im afraid im going to screw it up. What are the advantages of blocking it? (of course deleting all the soot going into the motor) gas mileage? spool response? This is going to be the first mod i've done.....should i buy a finger stick as well? Does the stick just eliminate the EGR code or could it delete other codes? I am new to diesels but i've twisted a few wrenchs on gas motors before......would this mod be difficult? Thanks for the info

PPE makes a nice EGR Delete Kit, fairly easy to install. There is a lot of build-up inside the parts I just removed with this kit and that was just from 20000 miles running with the EGR functioning. I have had it blocked for the last 60000 miles before putting the delete kit on. I hate to imagine how much more buildup would have been in there had I not blocked the egr a long time ago.

X's 2 on the question if a Finger Stick is available for 08 LMM's yet? Or is that what Finger's is looking for the Victim....I mean Volunteer for?

I don't want to get in the middle of this debate but i did have a question about the blocker and stick. Instead of openning up a new thread i decided to use this one since there are quite afew brains on here. I have an 07 LBZ....I've been contemplating on blocking it but im afraid im going to screw it up. What are the advantages of blocking it? (of course deleting all the soot going into the motor) gas mileage? spool response? This is going to be the first mod i've done.....should i buy a finger stick as well? Does the stick just eliminate the EGR code or could it delete other codes? I am new to diesels but i've twisted a few wrenchs on gas motors before......would this mod be difficult? Thanks for the infoThe biggest advantage to blocking the EGR (and really the only reason I did) is to eliminate sooting up the intake of my truck. There may be some slight secondary benefits, but I didn't really notice any significant changes to anything else. The only thing the fingers stick does is prevent the EGR system from throwing a code. It doesn't delete anything else.

You're still missing the point I think ;)

the spring is not powerful enough to overcome the VVT's large amount of drive pressure and stay closed. Drive pressure is right around double boost pressure. So at 32 pounds of boost you are pushing ~60psi agains that valve. The spring is not strong enough to hold it closed.

whats wrong with doing a blocker plate?

it does not solve the code issue because even tho the EGR motor is functioning normally, the calculated flow rate thru the EGR and intake (nothing to do with actual motor operation itself) will be wrong and the ECM will set a code. The only way to fix this is with a finger stick, or design your own fooler.

I've never seen over 28lbs. even when towing in my case so I whould say that is not an issue in this case but good point.

I'd like to block the exhaust in a way that would be more difficult to detect when taking the truck in for any possible warrenty work. A spacer of the same color as the motor housing especially given its hidden position I believe would be unlikely to be detected.

As for the coding, I guess that is something that I'll have to find out on my own as I have not found in any search where anyone else has tried this. If this is the case then I will reposition the MAF as Banks has suggested.

X's 2 on the question if a Finger Stick is available for 08 LMM's yet? Or is that what Finger's is looking for the Victim....I mean Volunteer for?

:exactly:

Boy this was one **** of a post! My ? is, since i have mine blocked and fingered should i unplug my egr or does it matter?

I've never seen over 28lbs. even when towing in my case so I whould say that is not an issue in this case but good point.

I'd like to block the exhaust in a way that would be more difficult to detect when taking the truck in for any possible warrenty work. A spacer of the same color as the motor housing especially given its hidden position I believe would be unlikely to be detected.

As for the coding, I guess that is something that I'll have to find out on my own as I have not found in any search where anyone else has tried this. If this is the case then I will reposition the MAF as Banks has suggested.First of all, the spacer you are proposing would be way more visible than a blocker plate. The only way anyone would see it the blocker is if they were to pull the EGR cooler or right side up pipe off. Secondly, your theory would still result in the same problem as installing the blocker. It has already been explained so I won't go into it again. And thirdly, Banks moves the MAF sensor for a totally different reason. It doesn't prevent EGR codes.

It's your truck and your time though. If you don't want to listen to people who have been there and done that then have at it.

It matters godaddy.

Fingerstick won't work unless the EGR valve is plugged in...

First of all, the spacer you are proposing would be way more visible than a blocker plate. The only way anyone would see it the blocker is if they were to pull the EGR cooler or right side up pipe off. Secondly, your theory would still result in the same problem as installing the blocker. It has already been explained so I won't go into it again. And thirdly, Banks moves the MAF sensor for a totally different reason. It doesn't prevent EGR codes.

It's your truck and your time though. If you don't want to listen to people who have been there and done that then have at it.

I fear there will never be any unbias'd discussion here, there is nothing any more inane than claims without any citation of substance to back them. I withdraw---you can go and try to pick on someone else now and don't forget to have a nice day

I probaly missed this in prior post but does blocking the egr drop egt slightly? And if so how much?

As for the coding, I guess that is something that I'll have to find out on my own as I have not found in any search where anyone else has tried this. .

What do you think a fingerstick does???

A dealer is going to find your spacer a lot easier than a blocker plate. A blocker plate is hardly visible and even if it was, I guarantee you 99 techs out of 100 wouldnt know what the heck it was.

Repositioning the MAF is not going to do anything for you.

I dont know why you're making this so much harder than it needs to be!!! :)

ben

See pics in LBZ section on this issue. SETTLED.

Ok my queston, well the plate would be realy esey to make. now couldnt you just wire up your own finger stick. i know what the finger stick looks like im gessing that the 3 wires going in get linked together to the two wires coming out. any info will help

You need to either take the scematic that fingers copied or go get a gasket from GM to use as a template. Then make your own stick. For the $ I said wizz on it and it was cheaper for me to just buy what fingers sold. I have a plasma cutter and the whole 9 yars....buy the time I scored me some stainless, drove all over hell to round up the parts and peices needed and went though all the trouble.....it wasnt worth my time to dick with. JMO

If you knew what you were looking for a blocker plate would be pretty easy to spot. But if you werent looking for it it blends in very well.

What sets the code is that the truck sense that there isnt enough flow through the EGR.

Pretty unbiased discussion here. No one realy has a personal motivation for the finger stick. Fingers dosnt personaly care, he aint getting rich off em. He just did it to help his fellow enthusiast. Heck he even says that the product he sells and developed isnt the best way to get around the codes, its better to do it with programing. But it works pretty well for those that dont wish to program it.

Id participate but I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what your talking about or any way it would be better? How would it make an air tight seal?

I probaly missed this in prior post but does blocking the egr drop egt slightly? And if so how much?

If anything, blocking the EGR will RAISE your EGT's. The EGR valve's purpose is to LOWER combustion temperatures so that less NOx is produced.

If anything, blocking the EGR will RAISE your EGT's. The EGR valve's purpose is to LOWER combustion temperatures so that less NOx is produced.

No, they will stay the same or go down without EGR. The addition of exhaust gas slows the burning of fuel. Thus, less fuel is burning at the higher compression part of the stroke, but the same amount of fuel is being burnt. The quantity of fuel is equivalent to the BTUs that will be imparted to the air charge and is also equivalent to the temperature increase of the air parcel. Same fuel, same temp increase from intake (IAT) to exhaust (EGT). If the EGR increases the IAT, then EGTs will go up also.

In the chamber, slowing the burn reduces the chamber temps and pressures in accordance to PV=NrT. Even though the total fuel, and thus BTUs imparted on the charge are the same, when, makes a huge difference.

A study was done in 2003 to determine EGR vs EGT vs exhaust opacity in a diesel engine. The write up is here: http://www.ias.ac.in/sadhana/Pdf2004Jun/Pe1131.pdf

Graphs show coolest EGT were with EGR of 21% with 0% (closed) EGR in the middle of the pack. Either way, the EGT's were only minimally affected (<10 deg F) by the amount of EGR.

It's an interesting read.

Shawn

I like pie. Pecan is my favorite, with a scoop of chocolate ice cream.

I like pie. Pecan is my favorite, with a scoop of chocolate ice cream.

Mmmm, pecan pie, but with French vanilla ice cream. :D

Mmmm, pecan pie, but with French vanilla ice cream. :D


I too used to be a fan of "Freedom Vanilla" until I sampled a scoop of choclatey goodness upon my warm pecan pie. It is simply divine :D

BTW Mods. Any technical value contained in this thread was played out back on page 2. Sparking a pie discussion may be the only hope this thread has at this point :D

BTW Mods. Any technical value contained in this thread was played out back on page 2. Sparking a pie discussion may be the only hope this thread has at this point :D

:rippedhan Actually, I thought my #51 post was quite informative. :Wedgie:

:rippedhan Actually, I thought my #51 post was quite informative. :Wedgie:

You are quite correct sir. My deepest apologies. I was in a pie induced coma and somehow overlooked that pearl of wisdom. ;)

You are quite correct sir. My deepest apologies. I was in a pie induced coma and somehow overlooked that pearl of wisdom. ;)

Sniff....sniff....is that humble pecan pie I smell? :cool2:

ROTFLMA..OFF..Too funny.

It is amazing that people come here..supposedly to look for information and when they arrive..feel the need to question each and every thing ever written because their own sense of "what should be" had it's little french nose tweeked.

you know I like Pecan Pie too. Ice cream of the Vanilla variety with Grand Marnier poured over it, a la Flambe..!!

rgds,

stk

No, they will stay the same or go down without EGR. The addition of exhaust gas slows the burning of fuel. Thus, less fuel is burning at the higher compression part of the stroke, but the same amount of fuel is being burnt. The quantity of fuel is equivalent to the BTUs that will be imparted to the air charge and is also equivalent to the temperature increase of the air parcel. Same fuel, same temp increase from intake (IAT) to exhaust (EGT). If the EGR increases the IAT, then EGTs will go up also.

In the chamber, slowing the burn reduces the chamber temps and pressures in accordance to PV=NrT. Even though the total fuel, and thus BTUs imparted on the charge are the same, when, makes a huge difference.

Anybody want to translate this into a language I could actually understand? Fingers-- you did a great job but you lost me somewhere around "they will stay the same.....etc." haha

Anybody want to translate this into a language I could actually understand? Fingers-- you did a great job but you lost me somewhere around "they will stay the same.....etc." hahaThe way I understand it is: EGR or no EGR you will get the same amount of heat out of the fuel injected. If you don't have an active EGR system the higher oxygen content will allow the air to burn more easily inside the chamber allowing the heat to be contained a little more by the block and heads. With an active EGR valve the burn could continue outside the combustion chamber, potentially increasing EGTs. I guess it's kind like bumping up timing, if you increase timing you can reduce EGTs.