dammit what kind of f-ing people design these trucks?? seriously folks!


so tonight i go to perform the first maintenance on my new (to me) truck. its the most basic procedure you can do to the vehicle pretty much......an oil change. so i went to discount auto the other day and bought the oil and filter and picked up a fram sure drain just for the heck of it since i thought it was a good idea. so tonight i get home from work and the wife is working late so i dig in. crawl underneath and get started and see the drain plug on the side of the pan. ok, cool idea since i can now unscrew the plug and not get my hand covered in oil like my old truck (89 350 had the plug straight down on oil pan so it was impossible to be quick enough). i unscrew the drain plug and then....******, the exhaust pipe is DIRECTLY in the way and the oil stream hits it dead on. now, im gonna have a pleasant smell and smoke trail for about the first 25 miles i drive the truck tomorrow! http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif ok, i think at least this is the last time this will happen thanks to the sure drain. go to install that...******, damn kid at the parts store looked up the wrong application and told me the wrong kit, threads dont match! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif then, i go to remove the oil filter - the one on my 89 was directly above the ujoint of the front driveshaft so every oil change, the ujoint and shaft got covered not to mention the oil splashing off made a mess. so now, not only did gm put the filter so close to the oil pan you cant get a good grip on it, but its straight down, so as soon as you crack the seal, oil runs down the entire filter. ******! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif needless to say, this simple 10 minute procedure managed to really piss me off!!


how freaking stupid are the people that design this sh!t?? i say before a vehicle is allowed to go into production, they build ONE and make the engineers perform every maintenance and repair that a normal person would have to do. maybe then they would THINK before they randomly place sh!t in the worst imaginable spot!!


ok, i feel better now....a little....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif

The joke is they have the 3D views of everything as they design. They still botch it up sometimes.



http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/hoot/2004-11-05_170247_side.jpg

Hmmm, I actually find things rather easy to get to. The Allison also has a drain plug and a spin on that is right in your face. The only exception being the fuel filter but riv nuts and screws in the wheel well liner takes care of that. If you find the oil filter hard you will go ballistic when you tackle the fuel filt.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

Check his sig - he's a gasser...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif





Ty http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif

If you think that's tough, change the filter on a 99 jeep grand cherokee with a v8, that's a real pain! The DMAX is a piece of cake with the exception of the brushguard, and I use some tin foil to deflect the oil to the pan instead of down the guard.

Was looking under a Nissan full size last night. The oil filter has an
access panel in the skid plate and a bolted on drip shield.

I thought it was pretty good, too. I guess you expect them to run
a bunch of extra line and route all the filters in a row right next to
you in the passenger compartment. . . that way you don't have to get
out of the air conditioning to change your oil?



Seriously, though, I'm a slow and methodical worker, and it took me
less than 10 minutes to change my oil. I was amazed that I didn't
have to have two pans and go through a bunch of crap to do it. If
you are worried that much about getting oil on you when you take off
the old filter, just take a plastic bag, half fill it full of paper
shredder residue, and then slip that up over the filter when you take
it off, the residue will absorb the old oil, and then you just tie it
up and toss it in the nearest river full of rare wildlife.



Dennis

The Crapanese are clever although my ZR2 had the same thing a trap door and oil filter relocation.


Hoot Nissan ? I had you pegged for a Toy"O"ta next!!





Mac

a Toy-Hoot-A? or a Toy Hooter?

I agree Dennis there are only so many safe areas to locate the oil filter from harms way without putting in a relocation kit which are susceptible to leaks with the lines. My Rusty front drive shaft appreciates the Erl on my D-max.


I believe the Fhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif 6-peter has a canister style under the hood. I dunno how messy that could be in that engine compartment.





Mac

I used change my own oil and many other maintanace jobs. Now I just bring it to dealer, they take of it all, no mess no fuss. My time is worth more than what costs for them to do it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

Only thing is that just the time you spend going to the dealer you
could already change it and still be ahead on time. I pick up the
oil when I go to the store for general shopping so the next time I
change it, I'm already set. Order the filters online (Thanks
gmdieseltech.com), save up a little shred from all those useless credit
card applications. I figure that all takes me less than 5 minutes
of actual time. To change the oil: 15 minutes TOPS, and I'm
slow. Taking the oil down to Wal-Mart, where they take it for
free, 10 minutes, because I take it when I go anyway. Total time
invested, 30 minutes. If you can hop in your truck, drive down to
the dealer, have them change the oil, and drive back in under 30
minutes of your time, that's pretty good. Incidentally, how much
do you make a year? (I don't really want to know, but if you make
that much, then have them come pick the damn truck up, and it won't
cost you more than a minute or two of your time). What I make is
public knowledge: 0-4 over 12, with Sub Pay, NOIP (Annual Nuke
Bonus), BAH in Newport, BAS. All told, I do pretty well, and it
is definitely more cost effective for me to change it myself.



FWIW,

Dennis

I only live 5 min. from my dealer, and they check over drive train, check fluids, grease, and rotate tires, besides change the oil. Takes about 1hr. and costs about $75 total, to me thats worth it.


I'm not loaded by any means, I do ok though, I just value my time http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif

I can change the oil a lot faster than 1 hour.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Someone told me to pop a hole in the filter bottom with an ice pick, drain through hole, remove filter, no mess. I'll have to give that a try some day.Edited by: a bear

You'll probablly spend at least another 10 minutes waiting for the filter to drain that way though.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif

last I checked they still made wrags and our hands were still washable... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

I can change the oil a lot faster than 1 hour.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


If you can change oil, check fluids, grease, rotate tires, and clean up in a hour, more power to yahttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif


I just have better things to do with my time http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

You'll probablly spend at least another 10 minutes waiting for the filter to drain that way though.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif


That's the whole point. Just enough time for a sweet 16oz. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

I suspect the engineers are pressured by management to put a higher priority on ease of manufacturing and assembly to keep the cost down as compared to ease of maintenance for the buyer.

I also suspect very few automobile buyers give much consideration to maintenance issues when picking out a vehicle and instead look at the price first. The manufacturers know this and so put a higher priority on controlling the costs and do not have any incentive to make the vehicle easy to maintain. This manufacturer mindset probably carries over to our Duramax trucks.

I once had an auto rep at an auto show tell me that the dealer is equipped to do the maintenance. His attitude was basically that we shouldn't be doing are own maintenance ... right!

Finally, I am sure the engineers are under pressure to complete the design as soon as possible. If there is no profit in refining the design for easier maintenance, then it is not done and the project is closed.

I agree with Haneym, it can be frustrating, and also blistering to the ears of women and small children.

I don't get messy changing the oil. The trick with the bag over
the filter means NO mess. I also installed the fumoto (with the
money I saved by doing it myself). I can understand the
convenience of going to the dealer. I still contend that it is
easier, faster and cheaper to do it yourself. You know it is done
right, and you can check all that stuff and more under there when you
do it. Greasing does get a little messy but certainly not
heinously so.

Hoot Nissan ? I had you pegged for a Toy"O"ta next!!



Mac



hehe.. I stopped at a local well to tip one. Place was too crowded so I
walked accross the street to the Nissan dealer to kill some time. The
Titan is as big as the F150/Silverado. I do not like Nissan's interioer
design... ugly and too futuristic.. like the F150. Underneath it looked
like it has an AAM rear axle. The ext cab rear door has staged hinges
so it can open a full 180 degrees nice feature. Truck was nothing
really special and $35,000 + an extra $3500 for big wheels and tires.
Nuts for a 1/2 ton.



NO Nissan or Toy trucks in my future. I do like the Morano/FX35 though.
Wife would like something like that. What do Amercan companies have to
truly compete?

Edited by: hoot

Actually Nissan uses Dana axles in the Titan (according to the brochure). I looked at one too... thought it was a decent truck for the money but the skimpy payload capacity plus all of the quality issues Nissan has been having with the truck scared me off.

I havent seen the underside of a new dmax or new HD gasser, but every domestic I've been under has been a total cake/pie walk compared to my '90 4runner.


Toyotas were designed for TINY, little, japanese, hands or something - for those of us with big hands, anything beyond changing the oil WILL lead to some NASTY lacerations...


I have scars on my hands to prove my fuel filter change at 225,000 miles, my 3 shock changes, and lots of spark plug changes.


Im dreading doing my timing belt...hope I have all my fingers accounted for when I'm done with it....LOL


I do periodically cuss out the GM desingers for stupidity in design however quite frequently when working on the 6.5LTD....Edited by: Bumpin' Yota

I would tend to agree... my 03 4Runner requires you to unbolt and remove the front skidplate (on V8 models) to change the filter. At least they give you an plastic "access panel" on the second skidplate to get to the drain plug.


I think the easiest I had was my 99 Ford light duty F250 (aka F150 7700# from 2000 on up). It had a remote mounted filter from the factory. It was right behind the left fog light. Those were 15 minute oil changes including clean up time.

Let the dealers check the fluids? Some will do a good job and some think 3 qts. in the real axle is just right. Later! Frank

Still cant beat the 6.0 power stroke filter under the hood and on top of the motor.

I think they stole that idea from BMW. Great engineering from them . . .

I suspect the engineers are pressured by management to put a higher priority on ease of manufacturing and assembly to keep the cost down as compared to ease of maintenance for the buyer.

I once had an auto rep at an auto show tell me that the dealer is equipped to do the maintenance. His attitude was basically that we shouldn't be doing are own maintenance ... right!

Finally, I am sure the engineers are under pressure to complete the design as soon as possible. If there is no profit in refining the design for easier maintenance, then it is not done and the project is closed.







The dealerships don't want us doing our own maintenance. Their service departments make a lot of money, that's what it's all about. They also encourage customers to use them because it's in their best interest to make sure things get done properly, less warranty returns. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>


But that doesn't mean that they purposely design things to be hard to work on. I work for a company that designs and builds automation equipment for the semiconductor industry. Our first considerations when designing equipment are function and reliability. We don't place a high priority on "ease of maintenance" because we get our parts and sub-components from other manufacturers like Chevy/GMC and we want the customers to pay us to do the maintenance, it keep our people employed. We have to design and build our equipment around many of these parts like Chevy/GM has to also. Back when Chevy built the '60's Chevelles/Trucks/Camaros, they cast and built their own engines and could make them however they wanted. That's not the way things are done anymore. They get their engines from another company who knows the business better and they have to somewhat design their trucks around this engine. Edited by: jpekarek

I got you all beat....Although it's a gasser, I get free oil changes and filters from my dealer for LIFE.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

I worked at an oil change place for a while and any full size American truck is a cake walk no mater how big of a pain some might think it is. Try out some of the compact cars, I’ve had oil up to my elbows just trying to reach some filters up behind the engine and burns from rice burners with filter like 2 cm from the exhaust manifold. Yeah full size rigs are nice. And I’m not a big fan of oil filter relocation set-ups either. I also have a 1991 S-10 with 4.3L and factory relocation kit, it makes changing oil nice but it not fun when they start to leak and you can only get the lines from the stealer for and arm and a leg... and dumb IFS cant’ just take the lines off. <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1:place>Ill</st1:place></st1:State> put some news paper down and deal with the sideways filter thanks JMO

Oil changes? This truck is a piece of cake! My wifes trailblazer has an access hatch in the plastic skid plate and you gotta have tiny hands to even think about pullin that sucker!

My Blazer has the oil filter located behind a trap door under the oil cooler / radiator. Very easy to change, DMAX is also fairly simple but the oil filters are always very tight. My sons s-10 has a plastic trough that catches the oil when you change the filter and directs it to the same spot as the drain plug. Very well designed.):h

I've done at least 120 changes on the last two cars I've owned and figure I have saved over $1200. It's worth it to me even if I don't save anything. I hate someone else doing my job.

Just goes to show ya, some folks can always find something to either rave or rant about.

The original post also complained about the shop that sold the wrong hardware, something most of us check before leaving the store. Haste, in this case, has certainly make waste.

I recall my 89 C1500 (Reg. Cab/SB) having a 502 Crate engine droped into it. Servicing it was not joy either, having to disconnect the front U-Joint and headders, then dropping the 5-Speed tranny about two inches to get at the back two spark plugs was routine.

But that was the joy of doing my own maintenance...I would get a good look at all the components, to see how they were holding up behind all that power (super-charged, milled heads, and a cam for towing, 4:10 Limited slip Dana rear, Dually conversion, 3/4 Ton Springs/shocks, Firestone Ride-Rite, Solid Alum. Drive shaft, aux. radiator, eual aux. oil coolers, no-A/C), since it was originally a 5.0L Gasser.

The damn thing was nearly as wide as it was long and could smoke the duallies in all 5 gears. But it only got 10 MPG (empty or loaded).

Ah, the good ol' days. Sold it for more than I paid for it originally (bought it used), with 70K miles on the Odo (60K on the 502). Don't remember the RWHP or Tq., but it was a mover, event when loaded with a 9K lbs. Toy Hauler. and 2K boat for those extended vacations on Lake Gaston (NC).

Just goes to show ya, some folks can always find something to either rave or rant about.

The original post also complained about the shop that sold the wrong hardware, something most of us check before leaving the store. Haste, in this case, has certainly make waste.
yea youre right its my fault the auto parts store cant hire anyone with an IQ hire than the temperature outside. ya know, if they would put a ******ing reference book or application list out for you to see maybe i could check the part number, but when the only person who can look it up is the damn retard with 10 earrings behind the desk at the computer, WTF am i supposed to do except trust him to do his job.

just goes to show ya, some folks dont think other people should have common sense when doing their job (designing vehicles).

honestly, is it that tough to put the damn drain plug where it doesnt cover your exhaust with oil every single oil change?? i can deal with it, i do all my own maintenance and have no problem with getting dirty, but the simple fact is this should not have to be the case. if the a$$hole designing this type of thing did his job properly we would not be having this conversation. i guess its my fault for having too high of expectations for mankind. i do my job to the best of my ability and expect others to do the same. :(

All these are designed to decrease assembly time at manufacturing site. Convenience to the owner or the service tech are secondary considerations (if considered at all)

I completely agree what a PIA! I love doing my own maintenace, but an oil change is supposed to be simple and ten minutes. The first thing that happens is the oil sprays all over the crosser over on the exhaust. Then when it drains down enough it can hit "the first pan".

The first oil change I let it drain out real good, only to find that when its almost empty the streem hits the skid plate and starts to run forward and all over the place and thats where the second pan comes in.
Screw it, $35 at the local guy and its done for the next 5k-6k!
Its just not worth the PIA!