Just wonder'n

My guess is that "Oil is Oil" so long as you don't run it beyond its limits, and you select a good oil designed for the intended purpose.

In my opinion that means dino oil gets swapped out at ~3,000 miles and a good synthetic is changed at 10,000 miles. Synthetic blends split the difference.

Since I do my own oil changes, minimizing the time I spend under the truck is important. That means I use a good synthetic.

Hb. You would be in the minority. The 10-20% that gets "it"

I believe it is because there is no real benefit that can be seen to using other than otc oils.


Most people are getting rid of the car before it would matter.


OTC oils are not that bad.


The added benefit of the non otc oils are not valued.


I use it because I want the extended drains and I want the better performance--even if does not equate to a definite pay back on the higher cost.

Looked at Amsoil, a while back. AT THAT TIME I figured it cost
three times as much as mineral oil. But only go two and a half
times the milage. Will be running a synthetic for the colder
months. Will have an oil analisses done to see how oil held
up.



Promoting synthetic?



I use synthetic in all but the engine oil. Maybe I will
switch. Synthetic stuff I got cost twice as much a mineral
oil. If I can run it at twice the milage; WOULD switch.



P.S. Didn't vote because there wasn't an appropriate option for me.


Edited by: Max Owner

I wouldn't say Oil is Oil, but if you change it frequently, I don't
think you need synthetic. . . so many reports and so much information.
. . Even if I ran synthetic, I'd still change it at the same interval,
so why spend more?

I use dino because I like to change it every 3mo / 3000 mi. I had 250k miles on my previous vehicle when I sold it and it was still running strong. I tried synthetic oil (amsoil) and although I'm sure it is better, it looked just as black and dirty after 3000 as my dino did. The kicker for me was that my engine was noticeably louder and my oil pressure lower then with dino. I'm old fashion that way and to me noise is wear. I have not done any analysis so my decision was not based on science. However I enjoy the time spent under my truck fiddliin - it's what guys do....when they don't have the remote

I use dino in the warmer months 15w40 and Delo synthetic 5w40 in the colder months. There is nothing wrong with the dino oil as long as you have selected the proper viscosities with the additive package. Just a blanket statement that using dino oil is doing a disservice to your vehicle would be incorrect. I change both with the filter at 10,000 Kms or 6,250 miles.Edited by: EMSi

I am currently running synthetic in my commercially run truck, changing at 5k. i noticed it runs much quieter less wear?


.i only drive my dmax 6k mi per yr and i want to change it twice per yr..so synthetic doesnt fit the bill there..if and when we travel with our 5r extensively, i will go to a synthetic and just watch the miles add up..later ,bc


ps didnt vote..no categoryhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gifEdited by: bob camire

You forgot to add synthetic hype. That would be my vote.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


When you say ignorance I'm assuming you mean that of the syn users right? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

bear


When you say ignorance I'm assuming you mean that of the syn users right? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


the question was why dino otc. You are assuming I meant syn.

So is this a stock or base question? Exactly what kind of question is this? I'm not following........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif





Burner------------------>http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

I think most people feel that synthetic is better but can't justify the cost.


I use Delo and change it every 3 to 4 k to get the soot out etc that the filter doesn't catch.


Synthetic in the tranny and diffs so I guess I'm a half n halfer.


Blake

Too Tight is my thought. Think about it, $5-7 for a gallon of Rotella T 15w-40, $10-14 for synthetic blends, $17-21 for synthetics. I've ran all 3, been running with the Schaeffer blend all summer, cost plus the fact I change both my vehicles every 5k. I'm out of the 15w so I'll be switching to Rotella Syn for the winter. I average a little over 17k a year(wife around 20k) so 3 or 4 changes a year per vehicle, plus 2 for my motorcycle.


I don't think there's any doubt that synthetics have been proven to be better. The problem is with a good PM schedule dino is more than capable. So syn's are more a luxury item or an extreme duty situation.


My differentials and tranny have syn because their changed less frequently.

Victory


"I don't think there's any doubt that synthetics have been proven to be better. The problem is with a good PM schedule dino is more than capable. So syn's are more a luxury item or an extreme duty situation. " I agree. For the most part.


Mighty y


" However I enjoy the time spent under my truck fiddliin - it's what guys do....when they don't have the remote" A candidate for good otc dino cause you just like changing oil.



Max owner "use synthetic in all but the engine oil. Maybe I will switch. Synthetic stuff I got cost twice as much a mineral oil. If I can run it at twice the milage; WOULD switch." Factoring filter cost etc. Rule of thimb is about 50% longer to break even on cost if premium oil is twice as much.


Ronjt "The added benefit of the non otc oils are not valued.


I use it because I want the extended drains and I want the better performance--even if does not equate to a definite pay back on the higher cost."http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif Performance is many times overlooked.


Next question. How come vehicle owners that take incredible pride in the way their vehicle looks and spend lots of money on "good looking" accessories and/or take wax the dog p**p out of it.....spend 30-50k on it.....dion't spend an xtra buck or two for inside the engine?

Same reason I still have the OEM air filter, and not an aftermarket
one. Don't need the aftermarket one. I'm still trying to
figure out if your poll is an outward attempt to insult people that use
Dino, or just "Ignroance" (Ignorance).

No baimpala. Can't edit a poll. Just trying to get a handle on the everyday user's mentality on oils.


For example Iran a previous poll in the trans section


If there was a transmission fluid that was superior to transynd, lowers temps an average of 10 degrees, was fully licensed as to not void warranties and about half the cost. Would you buy it?


79% said yes. But I bet only 20% are actually running a higher quality trans fluid. Why? dunno.

I didn't vote. But I tried synthetic (Rotella T syn) and my oil usage shot up. Don't need that. I went back to dino on this change. No really willing to spend the money to try a different synthetic "just to see". I ran dino for the last 45 years and none of my cars fell apart, and some were very high milage. As long as wally world carries Pennzoil I'll probably stay with that.

Jim

Mark, if folks can't "see" the difference..they won't use it. Most of the folks that can afford the "bling-bling" on their trucks don't really care. I doubt many of them will have it long enough to get it really broke-in before they sell it. On the other hand, the guys that work their trucks don't want to baby them (er.. mostly) and realize that the benefit of syn is generally not there. However, there are a few that understand the small difference and will use syn in the engine.


If there was a way to make a poll of syn users, dino users and mileage when they sold the truck..... you might get a little more info. How many folks do you know use syn and sell their trucks before 100k?......


Burner

As I stated I had 250K miles on my previous vehicle using dino and a good maitenance schedule. Maybe it was the frequent maint. maybe it was just a good engine or both. The biggest support for justifying the cost of syn was strenching out the change periods - paying more but not as often. I just can't see pushing the envelope here - dino works for me and I've had good reliability. Someone stated their comercial vehicle ran quieter but mine was the oppisite effect. As I only ran syn once I suppose it could have been a reaction between the additives who knows. I can honestly see the benifit in a syn during cold winter periods but as I live in So Cal were only talking + 20 - 30 in the extreme. But I do admit I'm running Valvoline Durablend in my wife's van......a little at a time.

I'm runnin Delvac 1 synthetic in my truck year round and it may use a quart in 7500 miles if I work it hard enough. It may be a waste of money but I realy don't care.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

As for me, I run Amsoil in my rig, and I just had it tested. I am waiting for the Oil Life light to change it (7500+ on the current batch). If it does not turn in the next week or so...I will test it again. I am also running the Amsoil Bypass Oil Filter setup. Very happy with it so far.

I have used them all at one time or another.. Considering what a quart of oil costs any more... ~2.00 a qt, A good oil that is.


I can afford 3.50 per qt in my truck...

Heres a loaded question.......



I change every 8,000KLMs (5,000 miles) Mineral oil. I will be running a synthetic 5 40 for the colder months.



Expecting to run for 16,000 KLMs (10,000)



Can I run a synthetic, double the milage?

I got 535k on a 4 banger grand am with valvoline 20-50 dino.



I use shell rotella synthetic now cuz it gives me 2-5lbs more oil pressure when hot.

Mark,


I'm using Delvac 1300 super until 10K, at which time I will switch to synth. I plan on running 10k oil changes or yearly which ever happens first. Only running dino for break-in. My truck is a driveway queen. She gets taken out for exercise once a week and earns her living by pulling a 30 ft. TT when we go camping.


The qualities of synth that work for me are lower engine temps in gassers and better lubricating properties which translates to less wear. However, in an older questionable pedrigree engine, I don't think I would bother.


My choice of oil and change schedule was based on research on the Oil Drop forum. Those guys know oil.


I'm still waffling on whether to add an Amsoil bypass filter system or not. Based on the guys at the oil forum, they pretty much agree that the Dmax stock oiling system and filtration setup is good for 10K oil changes.


For what it's worth, I run Amsoil in my wife's 4.7L Grand Cherokee with 8K change intervals.


Mobil 1 in my 1964 Vette now, dino in the past 25 years.


I will run Delvac 1 in the truck.


And I wouldn't waste my money putting synth in my go-to-work car, 1990 Honda Accord with 246,000 miles cause it leaks a little bit and burns a little too. That one I change about every 3000 miles due to the lifters making noise when it's time for an oil change. That car owes me nothing. I did splurge and changed to AC oil filters based on the oil guys though.


I think that the best oil is the one you change regularly, not run until it's empty method.


If you guys want to get real anal about the virtues of Oil and filters, I would recommend stopping by the http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?


the oil forum.


They talk oil like we talk trucks. Kind of scary http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Isn't lubrication the key issue here. There is no evidence that syn lubricates better than dino. Sure all the adds say it does but where are the real world facts. You would have to run two engines side by side in the same normal operating conditions for an apples to apples comparison. Does not dino carry vehicles to 250-300K. The main selling point of syn is its ability to handle higher heat and carry a better cold flow rating. First off we don't see extreme engine heat that would even come close to breaking down dino and we don't see temps cold enough to stop oil flow. Synthetics also gets dirty (and they better) just as fast as dino so if you run it longer as advertised you will have to get used to looking at dirty oil on the dip stick just as with dino.


Salesrep stated that we spend 40K on the truck and more on mods but we seem to be to cheap to put the so called good stuff in the engine at tripple the price. Man this flips me out! This makes about as much since as going out and buying titanium bolts for my engine at many times the cost because they are better when the regular steel bolts will more than last the life of the engine.


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against synthetic and each person has to make their own decision on what's best for them. All I'm saying is don't sell the dino short. It will easilly take you through the life of the vehicle. Once the truck body is wore out it really doesn't matter. Edited by: a bear

Why would I want to switch to a synthetic oil, when my oil analysis showed "Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type of engine after about 6,000 miles run on the oil. Your oil was in use 8,076 miles, and we found all wear from the engine at around average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside. The TBN read 9.3, a high reading showing plenty of active additive remaining in the used oil. This oil could have stayed in use longer. Try running 9,000 miles next sample."

This analysis was for Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40. I paid ~$16.50, tax included, for a 2 1/2 gallon jug at a Meijer store. So, at $35.00-$50.00 for 2 1/2 gallons of synthetic oil, I'd have to run that oil ~17-25,000 miles to be cost-effective, & I seriously doubt that the "wear metals" results would be any better.

I will run 5w-40 Mobil 1 synthetic from mid-Dec through Feb, but only because I like the cold-weather start-ups with 5w-40. I'm averaging over 6k miles a month with my truck, so even with 8k mile OCIs, I still change the oil every 5-6 weeks.

I have no problem spending the extra money for a quality product, but from my experience & research at the oil drop web site, synthetic engine oils simply aren't worth it, unless you're running in extreme hot or cold temperatures.

Why would I want to switch to a synthetic oil, when my oil analysis showed "Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type of engine after about 6,000 miles run on the oil. Your oil was in use 8,076 miles, and we found all wear from the engine at around average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside. The TBN read 9.3, a high reading showing plenty of active additive remaining in the used oil. This oil could have stayed in use longer. Try running 9,000 miles next sample."

This analysis was for Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40. I paid ~$16.50, tax included, for a 2 1/2 gallon jug at a Meijer store. So, at $35.00-$50.00 for 2 1/2 gallons of synthetic oil, I'd have to run that oil ~17-25,000 miles to be cost-effective, & I seriously doubt that the "wear metals" results would be any better.

I will run 5w-40 Mobil 1 synthetic from mid-Dec through Feb, but only because I like the cold-weather start-ups with 5w-40. I'm averaging over 6k miles a month with my truck, so even with 8k mile OCIs, I still change the oil every 5-6 weeks.

I have no problem spending the extra money for a quality product, but from my experience & research at the oil drop web site, synthetic engine oils simply aren't worth it, unless you're running in extreme hot or cold temperatures.




Ditto!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif


IMHO the ability of syn to withstand Temp extremes (not at all typical of our engines) and cold weather pumpability would be the only plus for this stuff. The newly formulated dino oils of today can deliver long life in the crankcase and provide greatly improved wear reduction in these EGR engines. As far as lubricating quality and wear goes I would be more than willing to post pics of my oil analysis results from my personal truck or any other engines I'm associated with right here for comparison against any synthetic.

Good points.


Even at work where we have mission critical Diesels and Reactor Coolant pumps, we run dino based oils. With our PM and oil analysis programs, we could not justify the extra cost of running synth.


The major plus of oil analysis is not performing premature oil changes.


However, in the absence of oil analysis, a good conservative oil change schedule will suffice.

Oil has been such a sensitive subject on this place......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


I casted my vote, but I'm not going Sally Jesse on this one....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif


Later!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

I agree with Tommy and deadfurrow. No need for syn oils, unless running in extreme temps, as they both stated. So, for me it is now, and always will be good 'ole Chevron Delo every 5000 miles or so. And, at $6.42 per gallon at Wal-Mart.....I like the price ! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif

I'm running Schafer's blend and like it fine. Also use Schaeffer's SOY fuel additive and chassis lube.

Only 53% really think dino is better. Is anyone else surprised that figure is so low?

I don't think people are saying Dino is better, it's a cost vs. benefit decision. Sorry, what 53% says to me is synthetic hype and vendor sales.


I am with abear, my truck sheetmetal will rot off well before the engine wears out. I am only planning to keep it 8 more years before I purchase a new one. I will have around 120K miles in the end, can't justify synthetic.


Everyone can make their own decision to justify and use what they want.

Interesting, you buy a $45k truck, run fuel at $2 a gallon (or more)
and all I have heard is "I can get dino at wally mart for $6/gallon,"
or" I can only run it twice the miles and it cost 4 time as much, I
ain't using.". Believe what you want, syn is better.
Period. Costs more, but waste is less. But hey, that is why
they still make the stuff, it sells, so have at it. I run syn in
every possible place. Like the performance, added margin in
protection, and the cost in the scheme of things, well is just not
worth the time to discuss. In the past several engines, I
run extended miles an d have never had an engine problem, or
trans, or anything fail for that matter. Satisfaction sells.

If we all thought the same,dressed the same,and marched in lock step the same wouldn't it be a dull world.If our fathers or grand fathers would have loss WW2 LOCK STEP WOULD BE OUR ONLY OPTION.With that said..... I use syn because it will extend my oil changes out.If I would have opted for 5000 mile oil changes I would have stuck with dino probably.It does amaze me why the price of oil would be an issue when you just purchased a truck for 40grand.Personally I would believe after forking out 40grand a person would want to do anything and everything to perserve such a costly investment(for me anyway cause I ain't rich)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gifJust great credit http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gifOptions and opinions is what makes America great.Enjoy the option of choice and use whatever you wanthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gifIts all good!

considered running a synthetic oil but guess I'm too old school ... started driving well over 40 years ago and have had many different vehicles that have given excellent service while using dino oil, two examples: currently still drive an '88 S10 Blazer with 278,000+ miles on it, use dino oil changed around 5,000 miles and still don't have to add any between changes ... the truck I ran prior to our current '02 3500 was a '78 Jeep J-10 that I kept 24 years and sold with over 450,000 miles showing (so far as I know it is still on the road), used dino oil changed around 5,000 miles ... from post above, it appears I drive more than some, have 78,000+ miles on our '02 D'max, use Shell Rotella-T changed around 5,000 miles and have never added any between changes ... for me the bottom line is I have no desire to run oil over 5,000 miles and based upon over 40 years of personal experience can see no reason to change to synthetic oil

Jim Edited by: JEBar

What ever floats your boat.


I can assure you that I am not jeopardizing my investment using Dino on a 5,000 mile change. All my old oil is recycled and not wasted.

From a conversation with a Chemical Engineer (whom I roomed with at school), it is my understanding (IIMU) that the synthetic oil has a more consistent molecular carbon chain length. The variability of the carbon chain length is much higher in the dino oil, although the "average" chain length can make the same viscosity as a synthetic oil comprised of one specific carbon chain. The average length of the carbon chains in the liquid "mix" is what determines the viscosity of the base oil. Viscosity Improvers (or modifiers) are what gives the oil the ability to "link" or unlink carbon chains to make them longer or shorter (thus changing the "weight" of the oil) in reponse to varying thermal conditions. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley23.gif


The variability of the carbon chain lengths in dino oil (IIMU) causes additional difficulty for the carbon chains to "slide around" each other as the oil tries to flow (aka slighlty higher pressures without a relief valve!). Since syn oil has (essentially) one length of carbon chain present, they slide relatively easier (around each other) than the varying length molecules in dino oil. This is the root cause of synthetic oil's ability to flow easier in cold conditions (oil weight for oil weight).http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif


Now, with that being said, IMHO the real advantage of syn over dino is that ability to flow (easier, better, whatever) in cold conditions. This property of syn may also translate to a benefit in reduced wear at startup conditions (at any temperature). In addition, reduced fluid drag from the improved fluid friction characterisitics of syn will create less engine oil pump parasitics, as the oil churns throughout the engine. This may improve fuel economy, marginally.


However, both oils are going to become contaminated with particulate matter (dirt, soot, etc) and both are going to "consume" their additives (Ph stabilizers, dispersants, detergents, etc) over XXXX miles as the oil carries away those contaminates. There is no advantage of dyn over dino in this respect (IMHO), as they both have the same type/quantity of additives. The longer the engine runs each time it is started, the more times the oil will be cycled through the filter, this provides more effective cleansing of the oil. In addition the longer the engine runs, the hotter the oil gets (until it hopefully temp stabilizes!). Getting the engine oil to operating temp, gives the oil the ability to flash off any moisture that may be trapped during the ride through the engine. All of these factors (to me) determine how long the oil with last in an engine. As many hear have found through oil analysis, engine wear can alter the rate at which the oil is rendered "used", so things are not a constant!


To sum this load of crap up, IMHO the following things determine the proper length of time the oil should remain in your engine (not in any specific order):


1. Engine Condition


2. Average length of runtime.


3. Duty Cycle (how hard is it run, when it is run?)


4. Bypass filtration present?


5. Quality of oil used.


NOTE: "Synthetic or Dino oil?" was not in the list!!!!!


Anyway, I run dino oil (Shell Rotella 15-40W) year 'round and change it via the DIC. This usually means that I change oil at every 8000 to 9000 miles. I have observed that when the engine is run harder, the oil life does decrease much quicker. So I have faith that it is working and that GM didn't waste their thousands of dollars researching the Oil Life System!


I have my engine and you have yourshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


You should do whatever you are comfortable doing and affording!


P.S. I sold my '92 6.5 TD Mech with 173K miles on it. Last compression test showed EVERY cylinder in the middle of "Normal" range. That truck had Rotel

All oils really come down to base stock, add pkgs, and blending process. A good hydrocracked dino with a good add pkg will outperform a lesser quality syn with a poor add pkg.


Rotella for instance has an excellent detergency pkg which allows it to handle soot better than alot of others.

I put less than 10,000 miles a year on my truck and change oil about every 5,000 miles. That means an oil change every 6 months. Synthetic oil is about 3 times the cost of the Castrol RX that I use. Even with synthetic I wouldn't want to go over a year between oil changes.


The way my truck gets used, I don't think the motor is going to wear out from the poorer lubricating qualities of dino oil compared to synthetic. I just can't see myself driving this truck in 25 years with only 250,000 miles on it. I'll want something new well before then.


Do I want to spend extra money using synthetic oil so some other slob can have a longer lasting motor? I think not

Just put 5 40 synthetic in today. For cold reasons. Works for me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif

From a conversation with a Chemical Engineer (whom I roomed with at school), it is my understanding (IIMU) that the synthetic oil has a more consistent molecular carbon chain length. The variability of the carbon chain length is much higher in the dino oil, although the "average" chain length can make the same viscosity as a synthetic oil comprised of one specific carbon chain. The average length of the carbon chains in the liquid "mix" is what determines the viscosity of the base oil. Viscosity Improvers (or modifiers) are what gives the oil the ability to "link" or unlink carbon chains to make them longer or shorter (thus changing the "weight" of the oil) in reponse to varying thermal conditions. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley23.gif


The variability of the carbon chain lengths in dino oil (IIMU) causes additional difficulty for the carbon chains to "slide around" each other as the oil tries to flow (aka slighlty higher pressures without a relief valve!). Since syn oil has (essentially) one length of carbon chain present, they slide relatively easier (around each other) than the varying length molecules in dino oil. This is the root cause of synthetic oil's ability to flow easier in cold conditions (oil weight for oil weight).http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif


Now, with that being said, IMHO the real advantage of syn over dino is that ability to flow (easier, better, whatever) in cold conditions. This property of syn may also translate to a benefit in reduced wear at startup conditions (at any temperature). In addition, reduced fluid drag from the improved fluid friction characterisitics of syn will create less engine oil pump parasitics, as the oil churns throughout the engine. This may improve fuel economy, marginally.


However, both oils are going to become contaminated with particulate matter (dirt, soot, etc) and both are going to "consume" their additives (Ph stabilizers, dispersants, detergents, etc) over XXXX miles as the oil carries away those contaminates. There is no advantage of dyn over dino in this respect (IMHO), as they both have the same type/quantity of additives. The longer the engine runs each time it is started, the more times the oil will be cycled through the filter, this provides more effective cleansing of the oil. In addition the longer the engine runs, the hotter the oil gets (until it hopefully temp stabilizes!). Getting the engine oil to operating temp, gives the oil the ability to flash off any moisture that may be trapped during the ride through the engine. All of these factors (to me) determine how long the oil with last in an engine. As many hear have found through oil analysis, engine wear can alter the rate at which the oil is rendered "used", so things are not a constant!


To sum this load of crap up, IMHO the following things determine the proper length of time the oil should remain in your engine (not in any specific order):


1. Engine Condition


2. Average length of runtime.


3. Duty Cycle (how hard is it run, when it is run?)


4. Bypass filtration present?


5. Quality of oil used.


NOTE: "Synthetic or Dino oil?" was not in the list!!!!!


Anyway, I run dino oil (Shell Rotella 15-40W) year 'round and change it via the DIC. This usually means that I change oil at every 8000 to 9000 miles. I have observed that when the engine is run harder, the oil life does decrease much quicker. So I have faith that it is working and that GM didn't waste their thousands of dollars researching the Oil Life System!


I have my engine and you have yourshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


You should do whatever you are comfortable doing and affording!


P.S. I sold my '92 6.5 TD Mech with 173K miles on it. Last compression test showed EVERY cylinder in the middle of "Normal" range. That truck had Rotel
Well said Mr. Goldsburg. As stated here each has their advantages. I personnally run Dino in the DMax but recently switched the wifes car to syn. with bypass filtration. Due to her habit of telling me she's due for an oil change when the oil is waaaaaay past due. Somewhere to the tune of 8 or 9K.

I have always thought oil was oil... I am now running synthetic and I like it. Motor seems to run better. Might be my imagination..

Has anyone noticed a difference in the engine tick volume when switching to synthetic. My tick has been gone for a long time and just showed up again at 70K. I would run anything to stop or lower the volume of that annoying tick.

My engine hasn't got that many miles on it yet to preform the first oil change, but I did buy my filters and 3 gallons of Shell 15w40 for the first oil change, but whether I keep on using regular Dino and go with a good bypass filtering system, or switch to a full synthetic is up in the air as of now, there must be something better about Synthetic lubricants though, or else the Air Force and Navy wouldn't be using it in some of their aircraft, but then again the military including the Coast Guard is now using a lot of Bypass oil filtering systems on there land vehicles and boats to extend the life of their Dino oil, what makes me want to switch to synthetic down the road thought, is I feel the synthetics have more of and edge over Dino oils because of the the added protection they give on startups, because from test results Ive read, it seems the synthetic oils adhere to the moving engine parts for a much longer period of time after engine shut down, which in theory prevents dry startups, then again in the above post, Goldsburg buddy who is a chemical engineer, was explaining to him about oils and their molecules and what part they play and how they protect against wear, as a matter of fact just 2 months ago I purchased a new Yamaha generator, which recommends using their oil, which they claim is specialty produced with these so called protective molecules that they claim adhere to your engines moving parts to protect them on startups, I thought it was just a sells gimmick until I spotted a new oil that Castrol now has out that is making the same claims that their oil has micro encapsulated molecules, if these claims hold true, it should be only a matter of time before all the oils on the shelfs will have these new additives that will make Dino oils better then synthetic.

The lines are getting very blurred between true synthetics and hydrotreated dino ( which can now be called syn. as per Castrol) Synthetics Blends are also blurry %5 %20 %30 no real guidelines there.
One thing is for sure the quality of specs and subsequently oils is getting better and better thus protecting our engines better.
That said marketing still plays an important part in decision making. imo

It seems to me that no one believes syn. oils are poorer performers then dino. So the real question seems to be when you cut through all the bull is it worth the extra $$$ to get the benifits of syn. Each one is going to decide that for himslef and undoubtedly then find facts to justify that decision.

I am not a mechanic, however, their are a number of very good professional ones in my wife's family. When I ask them about which should I use in my '02 Duramax they tell me that syn. is a better motor oil. However, seeing I change my oil and filter every 2500-3000 miles they really do not think it matters in my case. They say the real secret to motor oil is a good preventive maintanance program with safe intervals of oil/filter changes. I THINK THIS IS THE REAL ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

My '02 3500 GMC 4X4 Siera crew cab with a long bed has 44,000 miles on it. It is used just about exclusively to tow my 32' trailer around the country. So I spend the extra money for syn. because it gives me peace of mind. To each his own, but I believe my family mechanics when they say---the real secret to taking care of your Duramax is a good preventive maintance program with quality oil (either syn. or dino.) changed at safe intervals.


Rich

Seems to me all oils that come out have to meet certain specs. So IMO it doesnt matter which brand you use. I dont use synthetics because i change my oil every 3-4000 miles regardless of driving conditions and probably would still change it every 3-4000 if i used synthetic. I use either Rotella 15-40 or Pennzoil 15-40 and when changed at 3000 it looks like a gasser motor oil, light brown not black.

I just switched from delo 400 to M1 Truck & SUV, based on what I've read on this forum. I want my rig to last well past the payments (like at least 10 years) so I'm runnin' the syn thinking that it's better for the longevity of the engine. I'll probably still change at 5k~7.5k but I think it's worth it. btw: read here that the purity of the base stock is very important (spent the last 3 hours at work friday reading the forum about oik instead of working!). I'm running' syn in both front and rear ends (GM grape juice in the rear, M1 in the front) but running Dex III in the tranny-will probably switch to syn there too when I run out of stuff to do on the rig). None of the poll options applied for me.

"Ignroance" -- irony, sweet irony

This might be dumb@ss thinking, but a friend of mine who repped Pennzoil told me that the higher quality dino oils all work fine, and that it's not the oil that goes bad, but all of the other crap that rides around in it - dust and soot and whotheheck knows what else is suspended in it - is what does the abrasive wear.

So, if I wanted to go through the trouble of a bypass system, I'd run synthetic and save myself some changes.

But, I haven't done that, so I give 'er a good "bath" of new dino every 3k-4k and flush all that crapola out of there.

Make any sense? I dunno...

There is one area, little discussed, that is very much like a little turbine engine: the turbo-charger.. This is one component that IS extreme: extreme heat, extreme RPM's and very critical to engine operation, life.
And this component can indeed cook mineral based engine oil.. I can walk into just about any fleet garage that is running mineral based diesel oil and somewhere in a corner there is a skid of old turbo-chargers which have gone kaflooey and in some cases taken the engine with it with the downstream schrapnel... In most cases the turbo either seized from oil coking or the bearing went away (catastrophically) due to lack of lubrication. Walk into a garage that is running Delvac 1 and you will not find that skid of dead turbo's. This is one component on our engines that WILL live MUCH longer with synthetic oil than with mineral based oils.. Period...
Then we go on to reefers... Reefers are powered by little diesel engines that don't live too long. However, if one runs Delvac 1 in them, most trailer manufacturers will allow 4,000 hour drain intervals AND quadruple the engine warranty.... Hmmmm.... And, once again, that skid of old blown up reefer engines is non-existent.. Yes, I am biased, but is from tripping over skids of turbos in a dimly lit entry way!! :-)
Bottom Line: there IS a difference and it can evidence itself very early on in a diesel engine life...
George Morrison, STLE CLS

I know that the LB7 and the LLY have different turbos, but are they lubricated the same (by the engine oil)? In other words, do the comments from George apply to both the LB7 turbo and the LLY turbo?

Thanks.

The primary reason you change oil is because it gets dirty. While synthetic oil has better lubricating properties and higher resistance to high engine temperatures, it still gets dirty. Some people will use a synthetic and leave it in the engine longer (because they paid 3 times the price for it). This dirty synthetic oil can do more harm than good.

Just my .02 cents worth.

I did som research the other day on the viscosity of some oils, synthetic vs nonsynthetic. I don't mean the rating i.e 15w40, I mean the actually viscosity tests at certain temperatures. The particular brand of oil I looked had had a 15w40 and a 0w40 avaliable. The Synthetic was thinner at startup (40°C) as expected, and it was also thicker at operating temperature (100°C). What does that mean? The argument that synthetic is too thin during the summer is not true.

I use synthetic because it has more base stock oil in it and less additives than Dino oil. The additives are what wears out, not the base stock.

I run dino oil cause I don't like the extended run intervels. When it gets dirty it's outa there. So after 3000, I start watching, and then when I get time I change it. Syn. may be better, but dirty oil is dirty oil, and I want it out of there. As far as turbo heat, since I live in Phoenix, I don't run the crap out of it up a mountain,when I pull my trailor in the summer. I believe, (dino) oil is cheap so I change it often. Also like others have said here, not much an tv. so I like ta do as much of my own wrenching as I can. Didn't vote, no catagory.

I'm not going to dispute what George says about the turbos - the one adennum I will add however is that the LB7 turbo has a water cooled cartridge and would be far less suceptable to a bearing failure due to overheating the oil. I also had a IHI turbo on my plymouth sundance with a water cooled cartridge. I ran 10w30 for the entire time I had it (dino) and sold it with 320,000 Kms on it. Just kept the sump 1/2 Litre overfull and its still on the road today. I think the water cooled cartridge will help tons.

Regarding "The primary reason you change oil is because it gets dirty." Certainly this is a major reason for changing oil. However, another advantage of synthetics is in exactly this area. Synthetic oil simply stays cleaner, longer.. Not by strings & mirrors but by providing an oil film higher in the combusion wall than mineral based oils. Piston rings rely on an oil film to seal effectively. Mineral based oil burns off the top 1/4 to 1/2 inch of the cylinder wall. Dry wall or very thin oil at best. Thus when combustion occurs the first 1/4 to 1/2 inch of piston travel allows blow-by to occur until the piston rings sees an oil film, then sealing begins. With synthetic base stock oil, when combustion occurs, the piston rings have oil film available almost immediately thus significantly reducing blow-by, one of the major causes of oil contamination. This also provides for more efficient capture of the expended energy of the burn process which results in improved fuel economy, increased horsepower, and overall efficiencies. This increased efficiencies (reduced fuel consumption) is the method used to SELL products like Delvac 1 and other synthetic diesel engine oils: measurable, significant increases in fuel economy, reduced oil consumption, along with significantly extended drain interval. The extended drain intervals are achieved without making any sacrifice in engine/component longevity due to the decrease in by-products of combustion contamination from the above..
So, increasing oil drain intervals is NOT just justifying the increased cost of the synthetic engine oil; moreover the use of synthetic engine oil is allowing a much higher degree of natural resource conservation and saving money at the same time.......
George Morrison, STLE CLS

.... moreover the use of synthetic engine oil is allowing a much higher degree of natural resource conservation and saving money at the same time.......
George Morrison, STLE CLS

I am no oil expert or environmentalist but I have to agree with George on this statement. I think 3k oil changes are a thing of the past, 1950's - 1960's mentality. It is a waste of resource’s and environmentally unsound IMHO.

Corvettes, Porshe's and other high end exotics require the use of synthetic oils in their engines, your warrenty is void if you use Dino oil. There must be a good reason.

I once had a Honda 750 motorcycle that I had hot rodded and road raced for 5 or so years. It got it's oil and filter changed every 1500 miles. I used Valvoline 20w-50 racing oil and when I pulled the motor apart at 30K miles to build it it looked brand new inside, could still see the cross hatch in the bores. The bike was still able to run low 13s in Denver when I sold it 10 years later with 125K miles on it.
That said...
I use Amsoil in all of my good motors now. I ran a quick 3 month test of Amsoil gear lube in the tranny (stick) in my old 3500 gasser dually and came up with a 15 to 20 degree cooler reading than with new Valvoline dino 75-90. That sold me, if the stuff lubes enough better there to drop the temps it can't hurt in the engine. I became a dealer to help with the overall costs and now actually sell enough to pay for the card.
Haven't had it in the Dmax long enough to do an analysis yet but that is coming.

George,

Nice info! I use your D2 tank breathers, have purchased other products from you and always appreciate your very helpful responses. Keep it up and Thank You.

George-

So if what you're saying is true about better cylinder seal, are you saying that synthetic changed at 6000 is going to be cleaner than Dino at, say, 3000?

Do you have any data to support that claim? And what is the key measurement?

You can probably convert me if there's compelling evidence!

My belief is the issue is keeping chemical pollutants out of your oil by changing it regularly rather than putting "high cost, highly advertised super oils" in your engine! No matter what type of oil you use a certain amount of blowby passes the rings and pollutes the oil causing chemical and friction wear! In a closed situation like a transmission synthetics make sense!

Well..my 2nd oil change is coming up and I do not want to pay $70 for an oil change. I was told to run 5w30 Mobil 1 synthetic...I dont use my truck every day...but a few times a week.

Also how many quarts does this 6.6L diesel engine take? I am a resident of California where its not too cold.

Well today I just splurged on the Mobil 1 Truck and Suv 5w40. I've ran regular dino(rotella), Rotella Syn, Schaeffer Syn Blend and now the Mobil 1. Why'd I switch you ask? Because I do run a minimum of 5k changes and currently at 5600 on this one so I prefer to run what's supposed to be a better oil(syn). Also the mobil 1 T&S now comes in 5qt containers that can be had for $19.97 at Wally World. The Rotella syn is 13.48 for 4 or $16.85 for 5 qts so it was just a few cents more per jug. Necessary, don't know, any better, not sure, am I going to miss the extra $60 or $70 a year I spend on oil changes? not likely.

The Duramax LB7 takes 10 quarts with filter.

The GM specified viscosities for LB7 Duramax motor oil is 15w-40 or 5w-40. It must meet either CH-4 or CI-4. Mobil 5w30 is the wrong viscosity range, and I am very sure falls short of CH-4.

If you want to run Mobil 1 synthetic, you can run Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 (truck stop/Mobil Distributor to find this stuff), or Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5w-40, which is essentially the same product in a different package, and sold in retail locations, the most prominent being WalMart. I don't know what they get for Mobil 1 Delvac, but the Truck and SUV stuff is now at WalMart for $19.97 per 5 quart container.

Another choice is Shell Rotella Synthetic 5w-40, also a WalMart item for about $13.47 for a 4 quart container.

And there are other choices as well, which I am sure other posters will be eager to tell you about.

In balmy California, where subzero starts are not an issue, you could go 15w-40 in a non-synthetic oil, the typical choices being Mobil Delvac 1300, Shell Rotella T, Chevron Delo 400, etc, all available if you look in the right places for $6 to $7 per 4 quart container.

And you should be able to find suitable filters for under $10 each. As my sig line indicates, I use Baldwins, but there are other good choices too.

To Liftedhdrado,

I wouldn't argue with anyone who wants to run synthetic motor oil, but my point is that in a diesel pollutants pass by the rings and affect whatever you put in your crankcase! Even at the Walmart prices it's $39.94 + Tax per oil change and I don't feel comfortable leaving synthetic in more than about 6k miles around town! I also don't care to use below a 15-40w oil! I've used the Walmart Tech 2000 15-40w diesel rated oil for about 10 years with no problems! Its price is so low in two gal containers that a oil and filter change every 4k miles is less than going to most 20 minute oil change places with a V-6 gas engine! I know some people think oils have to have lots of advertising claims, racer endorsements and a high price, but I can remember when most people also believed major gasoline was far superior to discount stations gas until they saw the major's truck dumping gas into the "Cheapy Mart at 2 AM! Much of the perceived quality difference is just marketing! When I was in sporting goods one manufacturer sold exactly the same ammo to small gun stores and big discount stores under two different names so the small store could say it had a better brand worth more money! A local GMC salesman told me the Sierra pickup was made with one size larger bolts holding in the engine and drive train than the Chevy Silverado because it was a "commercial use" vehicle! Ain't that a hoot?

If all pollutants could be kept out of the crankcase synthetics would be the ticket, but that's not the case! Have you noticed how much dirtier diesel oil gets compared to gasoline engine oil! My Toyota Tundra V-8 oil looks like it came out of the bottle after 4000 miles, but it doesn't have the compression of a diesel and it's not burning diesel fuel! I do love the idea of synthetics in transmissions because there's no blowby and chemical and vapor pollution!

I don't know that I'm right, I rarely do these days, but I've had good success with my theory!

I agree with George from Columbus, that synthetics are measurably superior, and I run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles.

Intuitively, I want to say another overlooked aspect to prolonging engine life is to let the engine reach operating temperature before running it hard. I see alot of people just get in their vehicles, start it up cold, and blaze off. That's got to be hard (alot of wear) on an engine. You need to be light on the pedal until the engine warms up, no matter which oil you run.

One point I'd like to make as a retired science teacher is that it's nearly impossible to make accurate comparisons between reasonably good oils (or most things we buy) without being able to run controlled, blind tests! When truck owners say, "I used xyz oil and there was less wear!", how did they arrive at that comparison? Common sense and some education will help people make better choices, but real proof requires testing most of us can't do. If we depended on having proof rather than relying on faith in things, there would only be one religion! (yours of course!) Look at the sillyness in the food supplement business! The pills being sold are called food supplements because their testing doesn't prove their claims! Even the primary scientist who told us all that Vitamin "C" would cure so many problems in later research debunked his own claims! If you can find unbiased, independent testing that's great! Pass it on to me, but I'm sure not going to listen to the manufacturer of the product! Love to hear from a chemist in the oil industry if he could used a fake name and be honest!