Can any of you metal types tell me how hard it would be to make a winch anchor like this ($500 for this is a joke)........


https://www.expeditionexchange.com/pullpal/indexmain.shtml (https://www.expeditionexchange.com/pullpal/indexmain.shtml)

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/pullpal/DCP_1299.jpg

That one basically does the same as a boat anchor like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd= 1&item=2498255677&category=26446


Be very careful in any case; if the anchor gets loose or breaks under load, it can easily kill you and others. I´d avoid such anchors unless in really, utterly desperate situations.

The web sits says that little hole in the end of the arm is 3/4 inch and it will take an 11,000 pound pull and that it weighs 38 pounds. The pics must be an optical conclusion (sic). It does not look that beefy to me!<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It seems to me that a middle buster plow would do the same thing. I think you can get small middle busters for about $75.

That looks like a boat plow anchor to me. I would'nt have much faith in it. I rather tie to a tree or an unmoveable object. That thing does'nt have anything to keep it from tippng over when ya pull on it. Check out a Fortress anchor, Delta, Bruce, max or a grapnel hook. Looks like it takes two people to use that one. One guy to hold it up right while pulling it. Good luck.


http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/catalog/category_58_A nchors__Accessories_Anchors_Fortress_page_1.html


http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/catalog/category_58_A (http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/catalog/category_58_Anchors__Accessories_Anchors_Fortress_ page_1.html) nchors__Accessories_Anchors_Fortress_page_1.html


Edited by: SaguaroKid

Im not sure if a boat anchor is rated at 14,000 lbs???



The plow is too big and doesnt fold up.



The pull-pal is the current MILITARY winch anchor in Iraq.



It is rated at 14K and used to anchor duece and a halfs out of muck/sand etc.



It also folds up to a flat small size.



.................................................. ........ ........................................



Department of the Army

March 2003

5th SFG (A) Mobility Operations NCO


<dl>
<dd ="quotes">"On behalf of the 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne),
I would like to express my appreciation with your 14.000-pound
Pull-Pal product. Our unit has a requirement for self-recovery
of our fleet of High Mobility Military Wheeled Vehicles
(HMMWVs).



These new Pull-Pal's are currently in use with my unit and to date none
have failed which is outstanding considering the extremely harsh conditions
that your product is under.



Since the tragic events of 11 Sep. 01 our nation has been under
attack form a host of terrorist organizations from around the world.
My unit continues to be on that front line to bring the fight to
those that would do us harm. Our specialized vehicles play a very
big part in the operations that we conduct in the Global War on
Terrorism. Although the 5th Special Forces Group and the operations
we conduct may never be publicized on CNN, rest assured that under
the each of our spare tires is a Pull-Pal." </dd>
</dl>
.................................................. ........ .......................................

Maybe that's why it's so high, government item. They pay that much for an allen wrench..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

How often do you expect to use that thing? There is always the old trick
of running a loop of chain through your spare tire's center hole, securing
it with a piece of steel bar, and burying it. hook up your winch cable and
pull away. It is labor intensive and takes awhile, but works just fine(don't
ask me how I know this).

There also is cutting some tree branches and burying them in a cross style in the ground with a rope or cable. (Can also be done with your bumper if you need too--unbolt it and bury it--don't ask). Also labor intensive but you don't need room to carry along and don't care if it's left behind.

Hm, that comment from the army sounds like a fake to me.

You should be able to find boat anchors rated to 14k, but they're probably very large ;) --- I won't trust the one on the picture for that much anyway. You would tear it apart with half that load.

Security overhead of ropes and belts is usually at least 7 times of what they're rated for, sometimes 12 times. Thus, the anchor would have to hold at least 98000 lbs. Now, look at it ...


If you make an anchor yourself, it won't be rated either --- and then, there's no one to sue (except for you) if the anchor comes free or you tear it apart and someone gets hurt. Better use something solid, like a large tree, to anchor the winch. With no trees available, use the spare tire as was already suggested --- I'd trust it much more than the anchor.

If you get stuck in sand, collect some bushes and the like and put it under all 4 wheels. Drive onto the bushes carefully to get free from the ground, then dig away some sand from the wheels and try to drive out. Eventually, repeat the procedure, until you reach some harder ground. It works remarkably well.

Once I got stuck to the frame in very deep, very soft sand on a lonely beach in Portugal, and it was only with the help of a local guy who knew the trick with the bushes that we finally managed to get my truck out. I've been very lucky that he incidentally came along for fishing that afternoon and was willing to help ... It was a very educating experience in any aspect.

An anchor and a winch wouldn't have helped other than in plowing the sand and eventually tearing off the exhaust.


Before:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/0lee/2004-11-04_110258_2pict0159.jpg


About 2-1/2 hours later:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/0lee/2004-11-04_110444_2pict0167.jpg
Edited by: 0lee

Well this is all very interesting. The pull pal will work in soft sand as well.



I saw a 4x4 review where they pulled a hummer up a sand dune with a pull pal.



Thats why I want one.



You cant bury anything if there is 5 feet of snow and the ground is

frozen.



Did you guys look at the link I posted????



https://www.expeditionexchange.com/pullpal/DCP_1939.jpg


Edited by: problemchild

If you can find something like it for a reasonable price, I would want one. I've buried a spare tire and many of the other tricks, and I do not wish to do it anymore. TDO! (Too damn old)

Ya but, do you think the Pull Pal will work in snow or frozen ground? Have you seen it demostrated on anything other than sand?

I can't imagine it working in Snow.

Yeah they say it works on snow , but im scracthin my head over that one.....



Except here it is in action.........in the snow



http://www.4x4abc.com/Carlos_adventures/Mount_Washington.h tml


Edited by: problemchild

I would say if you are a confident welder you should be able to build it for about $50 to $75. It looks like the majority of the force is applied at the cross bar. Use grade 8 bolts. And if you do use something like this you may even use a piece of rope attached to the winch line at the point of the anchor and give it just enough slack with it anchored slightly to catch the line if it does come loose. Just like a safety catch. Better safe than sorry.


In your area I think the ground is only frozen a couple of feet down if that. And if you pound somthing sharp like a rebar at an angle it should go just fine. A five gallon bucket of sand will be heavier than a five gallon bucket of snow. Unless the snow is wet. It would definatly not work in fresh snow. It would work in snow that has fallen in different times allowing it to pack down in durations.

Does it show how they get it out of the sand?

I guess once you got un-stuck you could drive over it and wench it out, or tie a rope to it and pull it up.



Ive heard from a few military types and they swear by it.

Has anyone proven that it will hold to what it is rated? I'm pretty sure you can tear it apart effortlessly towing it in 4L, if not in 4H, with the plow plate fixed to something solid.

I'd bet a bottle of Lagavulin that it doesn't hold 14000lbs/5670kg.


If you're going to make your own one, you'll want a solid one, but that would weight 150kg or more, and probably be not easy to be made.

I could see how it would work in hard, hard packed snow. I don't think this would work well around here in the snow.

It should work fine for holding 14,000+ lbs. You are jerking on the system. It is one smooth steady pull. I am not sure of shear strengh but I would bet you could easily straight pull 10,000 lbs on a 3/16" x 1" steel flat bar.


It is the sudden jolts when jerking things out that will tear things up.

It does look like a two person job to me. Unless, ya have a remote control. Someone would have to hold it upright for it to dig in????

I had a welding buddy make one for me. Paid him $50. It appears a lot beefier than the Pull Pal. I tried it on three different occasions and it would not dig in. I suspect the photographed angle between the pull bar and the the "shovel" are decptive. I intend to replace the dual cross bar with a chain and shakles to be able to vary the angle until I can find the one that digs in ....I expect the angle to be significnt. I will take pics of my "winch anchor" this weekend and post it end of next week.


As for stout and dangerous. . . . winching is always dangerous. It is also easy to get stuck in places where no trees or boulders are near by, esp. with shuch a heavy truck in wet enviornment. If I can get the anchor to dig deep I would expect the winching danger to be nof different that using a tree or boulder, i.e. hook, shackle, or wire breaking . . . that is why I always put a rubber mat over the winch cable while winching. . . read the instructions . . . .


more later.

&gt; It is the sudden jolts when jerking things out that will tear things up.

Jerking makes things worse, that's what the 7 or 12 times overhead is to cover.

What I mean is that the plow will break when the force is applied to it smoothly, with no jerking. I think that either the plow plate will bend or break off, or the bolts will break. Maybe the hole on the towing tip will tear out.

Take a look at the ropes/wires, shackles, hooks etc. that are used on cranes and the like. You will not find something as brittle as the plow there.


I'm not saying that it won't work or won't be helpful. But I do consider such a plow as dangerous, and very seriously dangerous when such a brittle one is rated to 14k.

Just imagine what will happen when the plate breakes off and the rest of it is catapulted out of the ground ... It would be like shooting at you with one of those cannons they had in the 17th century, from a close range.

Just remember to use a safety line with slack in it anchored in the gound when using this set up in an area that does not have good tie offs. you will only need small amount of rope with just enough slack in it to catch the line when it slingshots out.


A rag or of sort is good for two purposes. to slow down the line if it does brake free and to also give some sight as to how tight the line is from a distance. But how close you are to the anchor will have part of the factor in how fast the end of the line comes back. And the rag may not have any effect.

If you use the plasma rope it wont fly back.

Click here (http://community.webshots.com/album/212584386DSFbsm) for homemade winch anchor for scrap steel.

Nice job but the support bracket is to high up and the angle is off. It wont dig in like you stated earlier. The shovel has a two tierd angle cut at front. The main digger arm is longer. All in all its a great copy. Just need to tweak it and get the angles right.

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/pullpal/DCP_1301.jpg

http://image18.webshots.com/18/8/67/55/212586755dIbZhV_ph.jpg
Edited by: problemchild

Nice job on that. The only thing I would be leary about would be the eyelit you hook to.

The bottom one is mine and has been in use since 1995. Been
repainted a few times, but no failures. I have a small one for
the ATV and Rhino, but just have not found myself too far from a tree
very often and is a little cumberson to haul around. These things
to work well in the middle of a muddy field where no anchor points are
around.



There is another product that looks borderline, but is
guaranteed, for ATVs ...http://www.x-tractor.com and seems to work in
their vids. More compact and easier to carry.

I would be interested in the dimensions and angles of each of these as I cannot get the one I had made dig in. . . . .

I am buying one as soon as I can afford it. We can't use them for my current vehicle.. a 40K Stryker with a 22k winch would snap it pretty quickly. Have to anchor off another stryker that is chockblocked.

Then again... 8x8 is a mofo and you can go through a bunch of stuff :)