I'm asking this because I wonder if running a Box or Programmer accelerates a failure. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen stock as it does my thinking is an already "weak" point is being brought forward sooner than it would by extending the duty cycle.


It's up to you to comment or stay anonymous.


What has brought this forward is how "quiet and smooth" my truck ran today (idle)stock.I know that when I take it out and run it,it will seem nosier than what I experienced today.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Never had any injector problems.


Not as many CDN trucks on the west have had their injectors replaced either.


Stanadyne used at double ratio in winter, and recommended dosage in summer, 40 times dosage while competing and every 7th tank 1 bottle in 34 gals of fuel.


Always buy fuel from hi volume suppliers

I have diligently ran additives at a higher concentration then recommended and 2um primary filtering.


My thinking is IF you have the bad injector pre premise then it will happen sooner than latter when upping the injector cycle.


Perhaps 01's will be more prevalent and early 02's?? I may just be off base.


Mac

I have diligently ran additives at a higher concentration then recommended and 2um primary filtering.


My thinking is IF you have the bad injector pre premise then it will happen sooner than latter when upping the injector cycle.


Perhaps 01's will be more prevalent and early 02's?? I may just be off base.


Mac





Possibly. Build date on my 02 is Jan 16/02

I am not going to vote, but here is my input. After replacing more injectors then.... well alot, this is my findings.


75k mark is very consistant with alot of failure, mostly 01's.


Trucks with added filtration/additives seem to fair no better. Keep in mind that I see alot of trucks with this that come specifically for injectors, most are not local customers.


Year seems to be less of a critical thing then previous thinking said. I have seen 4-6 03's with trouble.


Those with boxes dont seem to have anymore trouble then stock guys, in fact, I would say of all of them I've done, More have been bone stock trucks in the performance area.


I have had about a half dozen trucks have repeated failures repeated times. I usually get these trucks after the first set has been installed. Some I have put all of them in.


Just my observations, dont take anything wrong way.

How do i vote if i was running both a plug/play and tuner/pcms?????


Mine went with about 50,000miles, and i run no added filtration, and only use additive in the winter.......not that i haven't ran it in the summer, just keep forgettinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif for the most part.


My opinion is, i don't think that the "enhancers" are the cause of injector failure, but might speed it up if there was allready an issue.


My bud has an 03 and only has about 20-30,000 miles and his just got done. He's only been modded for about 5-10,000miles, so i would assume he would have had problems regardless, but one never will know.

I have a buddy that had his go on his 03 at about 75,000kms. He has never had a power adder.

FWIW.....



Mine went at 66,000.



Stock truck, no additives ever, and stock filter only (changed religiously every 10,000).



The box went on shortly after the injectors were replaced.

Traded mine just before the markhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif
Who knows... had 72,000 on it and had a strange knock. Ran
Edge for about 15 or 20,000 miles. Propane for a good 40,000+. Didn't
feel like dealing with it anymore.

Well my truck is at the dealer now for injectors.


I got 80k fwy miles, primrose 405, Nicktane, and my truck is bone stock http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif.


I have had some spark plugs that lasted longer than those injectors http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif.

I've ran many different boxes at one time or another w/o extra filtration and no injector trouble yet but that category isn't on the pollEdited by: mtomac

I've ran many different boxes at one time or another w/o extra filtration and no injector trouble yet but that category isn't on the poll


Yup... Mac is slippinhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

2001 with 31K. Added 6-Gun at 25K. No problems yet.

My truck is stock, no filtration no additives, just had my injectors replaced last week at 20,000 miles, shes running better than ever

My truck has 30,000 miles all with edge juice my dad's has 75,000 stock no trouble with either one

At less than 10,000 miles, and after 6or7 trips back to the dealer, they replaced 3/4 of the injectors and quieted it right down. Of course, GM had a bulletin that said this noise was normal. BULL!!


04 GMC DURAMAX Loaded!

OT kinda but did you notice your balance rates slowly getting worse of was it sudden or what? I'm sure you checked often.

I have diligently ran additives at a higher concentration then recommended and 2um primary filtering.


My thinking is IF you have the bad injector pre premise then it will happen sooner than latter when upping the injector cycle.


Perhaps 01's will be more prevalent and early 02's?? I may just be off base.


Mac








whooooooose additives?........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif mine

I have had 4 replaced and I think it might be ready for all 8 now since one of them is out of balance. It is funny though, one day it will be up to + - 7 and the next it will be below 2 so I dont know.

White Duramax


That's the way mine was. Sure would like to know the million dollar question. There is just no pattern other than we're all beta testers.








Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

I have diligently ran additives at a higher concentration then recommended and 2um primary filtering.


My thinking is IF you have the bad injector pre premise then it will happen sooner than latter when upping the injector cycle.


Perhaps 01's will be more prevalent and early 02's?? I may just be off base.


Mac








whooooooose additives?........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif mine








Yup


Gonna have to go get some now! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif I have a local source!





Mac

Mac, your rates slowly get worse or what? or did they just up and go flakey one day? What were yours at when they were good?

They were progressive, I have some Predator shots in my Sig.








http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u30/mackin/small/18364139.P1010009.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/mackin/image/18364139)


#8 is -8 at times. That was at half the miles or so ago I have now.


Mac

Glad to know its a progressive thing. Mine have been rock steady -.5, -.6 IIRC since I have bought the scanner. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif 34500 with totaly stock fuel system. Use additive in the summer most times and a high dose in the winter. On a program for 30k or so.


Knock on wood, I think I got a good one.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

This is something I have thought long and hard about and the current trends are somewhat what I have predicted in my own conscience for some time now. This is just my opinion but here goes. First off I think power enhancing boxes have NO adverse effect on the HP pump and injectors as long as they don't raise rail pressure. Higher pressure drops will simply create more wear in any hydraulic system due to velocity wear and possible cavitation (and notice I did say possible) at the pressure drop itself. Never the less velocity wear would increase.


As long as rail pressures are not raised I would think injector wear would be somewhat linear with fuel quantity/quality passed through the injector regardless of pulse width and timing. Example: If you get better mileage you should get more miles out of the injector as they have seen less wear causing fuel through them per mile. (Remember fuel pressure, abrasives, possible cavitation and lubricity are the main four causes of wear) Now if you are heavy on the foot and you pass more fuel through the injector this should in theory should cause more wear as the injectors have had to handle more fuel and pressure with the above mentioned wear contributers per mile of travel. A point to remember though is that better fuel quality should also net less wear per volume flowed through the injector in relation to miles traveled. So better filtration will help. This is another controllable variable in the equasion of wear per volume flowed.


I also feel that adding fuel filtration in a spot that would promote negative pressure in a larger section of plumbing would give fuel more exposure time to this increased neg fuel pressure and allow free vapors to break free and take their toll where pressure drops occur down the line.(injector tips and areas where fuel returns/recirculates) It is for this reason that I feel that frame rail mounted filters would be best utilized with a lift pump. Without pos pressure and as the filter begins to plug neg pressure is further increased from the mounting point forward to the injection pump thus allowing a worstening environment for fuel to release vapor. Engine compartment filter installs would provide less time for gases to break out but I actually feel there is benefit from a lift pump no matter where a filter is located but more so if mounted in the back near the tank. Pos pressure even if only a pound or two promotes better filter efficiency and will keep free vapors in check. Those who have cut open filters know the story.

'02 build date May 02. Replace 8 injectors at 62,000 km, last
Feb, just as the replace all injector policy came out. 91,000 km
now, no problems. Hot juice installed at 8,000 km, stock
filtration, fuel filter replaced every oil change. No additives.



I've been reading posts on injectors for over 2 years, my unscientific
observation is they go when they go, filtration, additives, power
adders are no factor one way or the other.

I've been reading posts on injectors for over 2 years, my unscientific observation is they go when they go, filtration, additives, power adders are no factor one way or the other.




I agree with you 110% on that...

What is the first tell-tale sign that an injector is failing?

tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack is one indication if you don't have a scanner. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/throw up.gif it's a noise that ...well, you'll know when ya hear it.





Burner-------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

This is a Bosch production quality issue which is why it's relatively random. They have a good product and design but did not manage the production quality very well early on. They have been working with GM to improve the situation over the last year or so. So the newer vehicles and the replacement set are less likely to have problems because of their redirected focus on production quality.


Performance enthusists make the folks at Bosch nervous because of the way we push their products. They are pretty impressed to hear how well some of the folks are doing on the site though. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif


I don't work for GM or Bosch, but I know some little birdies that do. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





Rick

Well get one of them birdies to sing on in here on the DieselPlace,anonymous of course.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif

I'm working on twisting some arms hahaha.


I didn't realize my neighbor was actually at Bosch until we got in a convo during our U of Mich Vs. Mich State football party a few weeks ago. He had been watching me doing my basic tinkering on the truck over the last few months and was intereseted in the performance improvements. We have a bit of a gearhead sub with probably 10 out of the 70 homes having car/truck projects going at any time. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif


He was impressed with all the things going on to produce power in the Dmax. You should have seen the look on his face when I mentioned the inevitable need for "bigger" injectors. He said, "Well, what you have is what we've got right now." To which I replied; yeah until they are bored and ported with new tips by the dedicated aftermarket shops out there. :D He covered his ears and did the "la la la la la I can't hear you" song, but wanted to see more when I get built trans in the truck in the spring. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Then it turns out that my buddy who is doing my Trans AM FI setup had some exposure to the engineering side of the Dmax at the General before he left to start his performance shop. So he has knowledge on the heads, gaskets and injectors from the general's point of view.


I'll keep working on them to get them over here. My buddy at Bosch has to be a bit careful because he's high up enough that the German HQ staff might not be very pleased with him partcipating in detailed disscussions. So I've been trying to sell the point that it's the aftermarket pushing the basic products that sells the basic product line. After all, people buy cars that are fast because they know they can make them faster hahahaa. People will buy trucks that are fast and good pullers when they know they can make them even better. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Rick

I just had 8 injectors replaced in my 02 LLY at 63,000 miles. The repair order listed Qty (8) 97729095 "*INJKT REM". Does anybody know if the REM suffix means the injectors are remanufactured? If so, are the replacement injectors just as prone to failure or have they been upgraded in the remanufacturing process?. Fundamentally, I do not have a problem with a remanned and improved part, but I would be concerned about a mere replacement of a known defective design. Thanks for any input.

over 70k and no injector problems, been running a stack from leaving the showroom till now, and loving it more and more