I'm sure I'm not the first to notice, but I wasn't pleased to find the new stainless cables I finally picked up had little "Made in China" stickers on them. Why isn't that work going to a good American company in Michigan somewhere?!

Do you want straps that are made in the USA? www.vrstraps.com (http://www.vrstraps.com)

Max Power,


Do not think JonB was worried about style, more curious why this was not a job procured in America and not overseas. I think we all know the reason and it is cost.


Not to go on a rant, but here is a little bit on this for facts and not rumors. I happen to be working on a project mandated by our corporate powers that we are too transfer our manufacturing processes and products to China. When I got further involved, I found that the workers are shipped in each day to the site, they make $1.11 an hour. They have no benefits and are not paid for OT. Before anyone fires back, this was not my decision I am only a bee in the hive but it is the reality of corporate US. Bottomline drives this and many other decisions to send manufacturing overseas. Now is where I get a bit political......As America we need to look in the mirror a bit. Assy people here (especially in Silicon Valley) make on average $13.50 an hour. Tenured assemblers make upwards $16-18 plus benefits. Our financial requirements as people in America keeps growing at an insatiable rate. Housing prices continue to rise and as long as people continue to make the money they do, prices will continue to rise and costs will continue to go up. The only way manufacturing companies can remain competitive is to ship this type of work overseas where one $15 employee equates to 15 workers over there without benefits. I am not saying I like this, But the writing is clearly on the wall. We are victims of our own greed sometimes.

I understand that. China probably made it for 1/2 the price in 1/2 the time that they had it could have had it made in the USA. When you are talking several million units, I imagine those things become and important issue.

Yeah I suppose...I was always kind of benigned to it all as I was not actively involved and did have all the factual details(You know how the media can distort everything it gets it's hands on). However, now that I have been actively involved in this project it becomes quite staggering. This issue is bigger than any of us. But it explains why people will risk their lives for an opportunity for employment here in the USA even at minimum wage....


So it goes........Carry On......

I agree that China can make stuff for half the cost........even less if you didn't have to ship in half way around the world.


But not half the time.......no way......not even close.......especially when you consider that the first 4 batches didn't pass inspection.


In my own experience working for a large industrial pump manufacturer..... quality from China is a joke. It's good one day and crap the next. Product safety is also a joke. Corporate America will get burned.............badly..........they think they are getting X because the nice man in China said so......WRONG! I am screening castings for lead and radioactivity because I have no faith in the QC or product safety from China.


Don't even get me started on lead times. Why do you think GM didn't have these simple cables for 6 months after the recall. It's not exactly a radical redesign!!


We have had issues with metalurgy....in pumps and paint.....machined parts come in totally unusable because dimesions are screwed. Corporate America is flocking to China because it is the "in thing" in manufacturing right now and we're afraid to loose out.


We will learn that in the long run it is not cheaper, faster or better.


Wages in Mexico are a fraction of the US wage and transportation is not an issue. Save a buck and build a factory there.......you still can't make up for an unskilled workforce.


The labor at my plant is Steelworkers..........these guys make a pretty penny! real pretty......but pouring a perfect 15 ton iron casting is not something you can teach to just anyone in a short period of time. Our engineers are still learning after 150 years!


When corp america gets slammed with laws suits due to poor quality and unknown contamination in products from a country that does even know what an MSDS is.........we will be very very sorry.





Ok I'm done with my huge rant. Thanks for listening......I feel better

I'm more concerned with the information transfer. If I call Dell Financial Services to inquire about my account, I get a call center in India. They have my financial data. The US laws don't apply there. Many hospitals and finanacial companies (CPA's) are jumping on the outsourcing boat and alot of America's personal information is going international . . .

Anybody waiting for GM to give you a fix for the straps and be satisfied in the end might as well go ice fishing in Florida.



Get the VRstraps.... they are the ultimate and worth every penny. Cables suck.

Hoot, ya hit the nail on the head. Go VR Straps!


403Turbo, when the stuff is made in China..... well, who ya gonna sue? If the product fails, you should sue the manufacture....but you can't sue Chinesse product. Well, not really....... I'll try to make this quick--- my buddy is a lawyer, it's his story.


Catfish farmer uses a net, tractor and a chain to round up the fish. This Farmer always bought his chain at the CO-OP, where it has been American made chain since it opened many years ago. He wears a chain down and thinks to get a new one. Gets new chain and it breaks. However, during the break the chain rips the lower half of the "helpers" leg off. SO....... Farmer and helper try and sue the chain Mfg.... no can do, new CO-OP chain is Chineese made. As it goes down the line, everyone is protected or out of reach. The result..... the Farmer got sued by his helper... and the helper won. The Farmer ended up having to quit the fish farm business..........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif





Burner-----------------

Burner....


All I can say is "OUCH!!!!"


I am not sure what to make of our industrial world anymore. I am one that firmly believes that you get what you pay for. Quick example: I have a pair of Danner work boots. Have had them for 6 years now. On my 2nd resole. Look perfect and have been very comfortable. I bought another boot from another maker less than a year ago. Found out as the sole seperated from the leather upper that it was manufactured in Taiwan. The Danner boots were $169.00 (which was alot 6 years ago and the style now sells for $249). The other new boots were $189 and lasted about 10 months.... Sadly the new boots are not repairable as it ripped the leather upper. Tried returning and they have a 6 month warranty...Funny how that works out...eh?


On the sueing issue, this is really a sore spot with me. Why does everyone want to sue everyone. At some point end users have to accept some liability. Sure there are codes and safety standards but look at the Quad industry. People use them, flip them over, cripple themselves or die, then sue the maker because they were not warned that it could hurt them. Well using anything can hurt you. I just say use some good ol common sense, buy quality products and keep it simple. We tend to complicate things nowadays then out of our own negligence, sue others to make up for that poor judgement. Hence the only winner is the Lawyer. Everybody else loses......

Dully, I agree...... the only true winners are the lawyers!


However, some suits are necessary. If I buy a grade 8 chain, subject it to grade 5 work and it breaks.... I'll be very upset. If the chain breaks under it's working load and hurts someone.... it's not my fault and I don't want to get blamed for it, hence the suit. At the same time I think there should be a cap on "how much" a Lawyer can get. That cap will stop a ton of the stupid suits we have. I know it's kinda bad...but look at Europe and those Lawyers... there's not that many of them because of the cap. I want a cap to help drive down the cost in Insurance. I guess that's why I'm voting for GW, again.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif





Burner------------>http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

DOES A MAGNET STICK TO STAINLESS STEEL ????


Not where I come from,


but then if you guys place a magnet on your new cables you'll find the magnet sticks, sooo what are these new cables made of???


OH by the way the GM stainless steel exhaust system is also magnetic.


but maybe the CHINESE make magnetic stainless steel, who knows???

Well some grades of SST are magnetic.


All of your 300 series are not magnetic, all of your 400 series are. Generally speaking

You're right on straps; I was planning the VR's anyway. I just wanted the new ones (and I was hoping to keep my perfect old ones) for general purpose light-duty use on a trailer or something. All the above arguments are good, and I understand economics. But what happens when the Chinese factories, who will end up with all the technology, decide they can raise the prices uncontrollably, as they are the only remaining producers of the materials in question? How about they kick the American owners out of the country and take over the plants? It's not like we're real tight with the Chinese. In addition, they're starting to buy, dismantle, move, and reinstall our mfg plants over there, which gives them the tooling and mfg knowledge, even without the doctrine of quality. Besides, reason aside, one of the biggest reasons I replaced a Toyota truck with this one was to buy American. So, my damn cables shouldn't say Made in China! :) Especially on a high-end truck. Probably shouldn't be that magnetic either, but that would require a re-look at the 300/400, etc. discussions on exhaust stainless. Thx for comments, all. Didn't mean to elevate blood pressures. Out for calming beverage now...

Well, its about free enterprise. We tout its benefits/pluses until we come to face the downside. Can't have it only one way.


Its the same discussion when labor from Mex started to takeover the farm/agg work yrs ago. Truth came out that nobody here wanted the job ~ its back breaking work regardless of the wage. I wouldn't want to make thoses cables for very long at even $20hr. It would drive me nuts w/monotony. I don't think anyone here would be jumping at the job on the longterm bases either. If this particular task was kept in the US, very likely it would have been mechanized anyway resulting in very few jobs. The fact that they're made in China bothers me not at all. Hope I'm not around when that offshore worker has to draw $20 an hr ~ like I'm feeling the pressure of raising fuel prices.


Like has been said before ~ its a new century, face the challenges w/new ideas.

ShumDit,


You are absolutely right....free enterprise is the baseline motivation. The goal of EVERY company is to make money, public or private. So owners and corporate enti**** will move manufacturing lines around where it makes best economic sense. The prime reason I am not worried about technology loss is most of these products have very short life cycles, so what they have today will be old technology tomorrow. The US leads in technological advancements, always has , always will. My only real concern is the quality of the work performed and of those products being made, How many could put people in harms way? This is the risk we all have to take as this type of product transfer takes place. As ShumDit said, you cannot have it both ways.


As for buying American, that is just not possible in most cases, especially on an item like a vehicle. I would have to guesstimate that over 1/2 the components are made outside the US, the other half made here might be made of raw materials supplied by countries outside the US. I am OK with it. If the upfront engineering is solid, materials are sourced properly and certified, then we should all win.


Trust me on this. If you could specify exclusively on a build sheet that you wanted your vehicle made in America with 100% American made products the price of your truck would be staggering http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif . You think $50K is a lot..........

I'm with Shumdit and Dually on this one. I work for GM, trust me, the hourly people here do better than most college graduates! Their work is very repetitive, but for over 50k/year they keep at it! It's not skilled work, so why not ship it overseas? As for China stealing our technology, shouldn't be an issue, they already do it! GM already has plants in China building Buicks and Cadillacs. Difference is, GM owns these plants and hires Chinese workforce. Not a bad idea http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


A lot is changing, guess we just have to see what happens...

Gm owns PART of that plant. Let's not forget that China is a communist country. Every business in china is a partnership with the government.


I really don't understand the attraction of china.........we will get burned.....there is a basic difference of philosophy there and it will nail us in the end.


As far as product liability goes, the deep pockets in the chain are the ones that get hit the worst. If a GM or any large company buys a product from china and it causes harm to the user, the big company will get sued, the "GM/China cable company limited" is not going to get it but GM sure will. I'm sure Gm is being sued for injuries caused by the first round of cable problems, did GM make them? Maybe....maybe not, but GM sold them, so they get the court date.


Corp america will wise up AFTER someone gets lead in their drinking glass or radioactive castings in their car, or a microwave that explodes. I do this for a living so I have a vivid imagination......but it was created through experiense.

This thread is looking more and more like politics out of Berkley or the like.


In every year that passes the closer the world becomes less polarized - politically. As the masses become more educated, and the Chinese enjoy another Big Mac, they hold on less tightly to there strong arm government. Shifting more socialistic.


Look at the USSR fifteen years ago verses today. Then also look at us today. The masses want government to do more and more for them, health-care, etc. We are shifting more socialistic ourselves.


Soon enough there will be no one left to make your cables, because everyone will want to have their $50,000 car, a 3000sqft home, and a three day work week. Start hoping for robotics to be our slave labor of the future.


The real social problem of the future will be religious - Too many are to sure they are "Holy" correct. The only answer here will probably be for the Almighty to come on down and tell us we are all wrong.


Fire away... I placed myself in the cross-hairs.Edited by: DLAnderson

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying. I guess it just depends on your altitude........ya know....how high up you are and how far out your horizon is. If your worried about details like paying the bills or putting dinner on the table then the world looks like a pretty messed up place that is getting worse instead of better. If you have the ability to take a longer term view, then yes, it will all balance out in the end.


Funny thing about the world.....we ended the cold war by out spending the Russians. Now we will take out the last great Communist country by simply converting their economy through trade.


Could the key to world peace be the almighty $? As long as everyone has just enough it's not worth fighting over?


Deep thoughts........my head hurts now.

I don't see why we can have trade relations with China but not Cuba?

Its the CIGARS...I am telling you.....HAHAHAHAHA


Some group wrote in a song quite a few years back "For a piece of paper, it sure carries alot of weight" I add to that "Money is the root of all evil"


Silly how it can be that simple...then so complex.


As for religion.......Count me out. I am sorry. I am a realist. When someone comes to me and can part the Pacific Ocean so I can walk to Hawaii, I will sit and have a chat with that individual.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/041202/nf20041226762_db039_1.html

Looking for medium duty truck. Kenworth Canada, Ford Mexico, GM 7800 Dmax Japan, nothing made here anymore:mad:.

Doesn't Ford or Dodge use the same cables?