My turn for injectors, truck had a hard start when warm eventually it
won't start at all. 17,000 Miles on my '02 2500HD D/A.



They said 30 days, at least they gave me a rental truck (1500/5.3L)



They are also going to install the OD Lockout switch for free...

Looks like I got a good dealer, they didn't complain about my EGT
gauge, lack of cat converter or anything else... They are going to
replace all 8 with what they call the "new design" hopefully these will
last more than 20k miles



Question for all that got new injectors, did you have to replace them again (a 2nd time around...) ?

Oh BTW: I replaced my stock fuel filter every 5,000 miles and used PPFP
it was very clean every time, guess that didn't help me...



I did run Mexican diesel for a few thoulsand miles - truck seemed much happier on it ;-)

Wow, you only have 17,000 miles on your 02? I have 68,000 and took it in yesterday to get the injectors replaced. Dealer called today and said they would only replace the bad one since they are on national backorder 6 weeks behind. I think it needs an engine too since the crankcase was filled with diesel and it only holds about 20 lbs oil pressure when it held 60 only days before. I went and put the muffler back on and replaced the K&N with a stock filter, so it would not void warranty. I am the fourth Dmax in line at the dealer for injectors, seems they are getting flooded with them.

Oh BTW: I replaced my stock fuel filter every 5,000 miles and used PPFP
it was very clean every time, guess that didn't help me...

I did run Mexican diesel for a few thoulsand miles - truck seemed much happier on it ;-)




Chevron has updated their diesel fuel tutorial - it now states that one tank of fuel with too low a lubricity can waste injectors and pump. Bosch says that fuel must meet lubricity spec of 460 micron wear scar diameter on a high frequency reciprocating rig. The only additives that I have seen published or stated results that provide enough lubricity for our trucks are...

1. Stanadyne Performance Formula
2. Stanadyne lubricity formula
3. Shell Rotella DFA.

Sounds like the mexican fuel mighta "did ya in"...

I run Stanadyne lubricity formula in summertime (double dose) and a mix of Stanadyne lubricity formula and Stanadyne performance formula in the winter months.

- jeff

Edited by: dmax lover

Hey Jeff, how many miles do you have on your truck?

I'm at almost 40k and no injector probs yet.

I use the JK 50/50 FPPF Total Power/Cetane Boost mix.

Blake


Edited by: NWDmax

I doubt it was the mexican fuel--especially for lack of lubricity. That fuel has very high sulfur.


I ran 2k miles on Mexican fuel in Baja--I had new filters--The big CAT, a R90S and the OEM.


No water or any kind of dirt to speak of--when I changed them when I got back.


Then again--the stations were all pretty new.

Chevron has updated their diesel fuel tutorial - it now states that one tank of fuel with too low a lubricity can waste injectors and pump. Bosch says that fuel must meet lubricity spec of 450 micron wear scar diameter on a high frequency reciprocating rig.



Jeff, where did you pick up the Bosch data and the lubricity specs for the addititives? Using Stanadyne lubricity myself, but per recommended dosing, not double.

Chevron has updated their diesel fuel tutorial - it now states that one tank of fuel with too low a lubricity can waste injectors and pump. Bosch says that fuel must meet lubricity spec of 450 micron wear scar diameter on a high frequency reciprocating rig.



Jeff, where did you pick up the Bosch data and the lubricity specs for the addititives? Using Stanadyne lubricity myself, but per recommended dosing, not double.





The bosch presentation on lubricity can be found on the California Air Resources Board (CARB) website.


http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosc (http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf) h.pdf


After reading this, one could come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how well they make our injectors - 80% of the fuel in the U.S. doesn't meet the spec that Bosch calls out for lubricity and will let the injectors self destruct before their time...


To find published/stated lubricity for various additives - look on the stanadyne website...


http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1044


They compare to varioius brands to stanadyne performance formula, lubricity formula uses more lubricity additive than performance formula ("more concentrated"). They also state that any of the additives can be "double-dosed". Going double dose probably gets me to ~300 micron wsd performance - going beyond 2x doesn't yield greater lubricity.


To find a discussion on the Rotella forum regarding the lubricity performance of Rotella DFA. Look here...


http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Boar d=General&Number=513&page=8&view=collapsed&s b=5&o=&fpart=1 (http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=General&Number=513&page=8& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)


- jeffEdited by: dmax lover

Hey Jeff, how many miles do you have on your truck?
I'm at almost 40k and no injector probs yet.
I use the JK 50/50 FPPF Total Power/Cetane Boost mix.
Blake



I have 17k miles and it purrs like a kitten...


JK previously wrote the following about how he gets good lubricity in his "mix" :


"I'll admit it, I mix a bit of Klotz 2 stroke oil, and MMO WITH my FPPF Total Power"


MMO = Marvel Mystery Oil


For our trucks, an BOCLE type test doesn't correlate well to actual pump and injector wear on our trucks. The additive needs to show results using an HFRR test showing that it meets en590 european spec (460 micron wear scar diameter HFRR).


- jeff
Edited by: dmax lover

By the way, CARB eventually adopted a HFRR wear limit of 520 um for the upcoming ULSD that will be hitting the state (and nation) by June 2006 (must have been lobbied by the oil companies).

Not sure what it will be for the rest of the country, but you can bet if it is self-regulated (by the oil companies), it will not be a good thing for the consumer.

AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

Does anyone have the years/part numbers of the defective injectors? I have been a little concerned with my mileage numbers relative to what I have seen from the various posts http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif, only about 13.5 city and 17 highway. I am up to 17850 miles in my 03 right now, and have not suffered any poor starts. My last fuel filter change was at ~15000 and it looked okay.


Thanks!

The problem with the fuel---even ULSD in CA--is who is watching and enforcing that the lubricity standards are being met.


Jeff's numbers from Bosch are lower than the CA CARB numbers--sounds like we need more lubricity.


If one tankful of bad fuel can do you in--yikes!!


I have been using B20 since about 4k miles basically from the same supplier---the truck is quieter today than it was new--27kmiles.


I am concerned that as the truck ages--people have said it get noisier--pilot injection not working as well?? A sign of wear??

By the way, CARB eventually adopted a HFRR wear limit of 520 um for the upcoming ULSD that will be hitting the state (and nation) by June 2006 (must have been lobbied by the oil companies).

Not sure what it will be for the rest of the country, but you can bet if it is self-regulated (by the oil companies), it will not be a good thing for the consumer.

Alan





There is an ASTM group that is setting the lubricity standard for an updated/new ASTM spec for diesel fuel. They have been working for a few years. This group has representatives from fuel injection mfgrs, engine mfgrs, and oil companies. Guess who voted against a tighter standards that would protect our trucks. If you want to blame somebody for the injectors failing - I blame oil companies and don't fault bosch/gm... Although, by all rights they should step up to the plate and start paying for my additive!


ASTM was able to agree on 520 microns - so that is what CARB is going with. Bosch says 460 is "acceptable" - to be good I want to be on the green line in slide 12 of the bosch presentation (380 micron wsd HFRR).


To get some background reading, just do a search on google with "lubricity" and "ASTM" as keywords; Jist of it is the new spec is something everybody can agree on - but not necessarily the best. ASTM wants to set spec and tighten the spec as they do more research rather than have epa, carb, etc. mandate the number.


http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/DATABASE.CART/WORKI TEMS/WK3615.htm?L+mystore+mzak6978+1097802501


http://www.findarticles.com => search on "lubricity" and "ASTM" here...


- jeff


Edited by: dmax lover

Well I got my truck back, it only took 5 days at the Dealership and
they found some injectors. They wouldn't replace my fuel filter
claiming the injectors wern't dirty, just defective.



They "swear" the new injectors won't have any problems, we'll see.



I'm just surpised it took less than a week, I was kinda enjoying my
5.3l Rental Truck C1500 - the tires were so skinny it could squeiel
them on demand.



I'll change the oil monday, see how it looks/smells.

Did I miss the post that said our pumps/injectors are wearing out due to low lubrication? Later! Frank

Wow, 5 days in the dealer!?! They told me it would be at least six weeks and they will be replacing only one injector since they are so hard to get. They did not give me a vehicle to drive eitherhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif! I have to drive my Dad's 89 F-250 7.3 diesel. And I thought my Dmax made noise when the injector went bad.

I was also very forunate. My 2002 Duramax with 66K miles was in the shop for 10 days total when havign all 8 injectors replaced 2 weeks back. I was amazed how fast the dealer received them after having said it would be a month when I dropped her off. In my case, I had a drop in oil pressure (maxed out at 20 psi), fuel in oil, and fuel/oil all over the undercarriage. My truck was 100% stock, frequent oil and fuel filter changes.





Mark

Otis700, did your oil pressure come back up after they changed the oil and fixed the injectors? Mine also dropped to 20 psi max when I took it in. Dealer said it would not hurt anything, but I know different, that is never good to have that much fuel in the engine. I checked on it today (day #8) and they said they MIGHT have it Friday if they get the one injector to replace the bad one. I asked them what if another injector goes out tomorrow and they said bring it back and we will change it too. Damn diesel fuel is $2.09 here today, kind of makes me want my 97 4X4 454 dually back that only got 8 MPG!

are the warantys covering all these injector probelms, and what would be a good year dmax to get that i wouldnt have to worry bout inj. pobelms