I just got off the phone with a guy at RJ Performance out in Alberta about a AMG short block. Does anyone have feedback about these guys or has anyone delt with them before? $3500 doesnt sound to bad for a AMG short block any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Run fast...

You might want to check deeper into this block and especially the company. General consensus is that the block is "chinese" and not a geniune AMG casting. Buyer beware. Do a search here for RJ Performance. Personally I am staying a long way away from them. You'll see why if you do the search.

Im getting the idea there no good. does anyone know where you can get a genuine AMG short block.

Im getting the idea there no good. does anyone know where you can get a genuine AMG short block.
AMG has them:D

Kennedy uses the new blocks, not sure if it's a long or short block though. Call him and ask.

I just got off the phone with a guy at RJ Performance out in Alberta about a AMG short block. Does anyone have feedback about these guys or has anyone delt with them before? $3500 doesnt sound to bad for a AMG short block any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

The 6.5 blocks and shortblocks that JR performance sells are 100% chinese. [ NOT AMG ].
That does not mean they are bad quality.:D
I just don't like to deal with someone who is trying to fool people.:(

Try to get him to send you some pics, he never gave me any.:(

I needed injectors , I figured i give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me they where bosch injectors, well they panned out to be 100% chinese, upon pop testing them I found them to be from 2300 to 2475 psi, Hi pop is 2100 psi. The return nipples are sticking out in all directions too.:eek:

I did send them right back to him, waiting for refund.:rolleyes:

I had heard enough about JR P , but I guess I needed to find out if it was all bad.:eek:

AMG supplies GM dealers by contract. A new block, a stock short block or a long block 21.1 compression should be available. I would want human eyes to see & say it is the correct current AMG manufactured block. Not a new old stock GM casting from 1999. A running change in the manufacture occured some time in 1999 or 2000. I have a GM production casting installed in a late built 2000 truck.I don't know the casting date though. It does have the 4 threaded bosses under the LH engine mount. which was added to the final GM incarnation of the 6.5 block AMG/ GEP blocks . No diamonds in the valley though.

It would be nice to know what all the markings are on the various 605 blocks. Most are marked on the rear with #506 and a letter and numbers above that.
I have a 98 stockblock with F13.

Diesel Direct block have DJV8 as only mark. I suspect is chinese casting !

one confirmed chinese block I have seen has F14 above the #506.

Another confirmed china block has #506 casted in the valley between the rows of bumps on both sides.

What does AMG has for # ??

Is there anyone else with info on this ?????

It would be nice to know what all the markings are on the various 605 blocks. Most are marked on the rear with #506 and a letter and numbers above that.
I have a 98 stockblock with F13.

Diesel Direct block have DJV8 as only mark. I suspect is chinese casting !

one confirmed chinese block I have seen has F14 above the #506.

Another confirmed china block has #506 casted in the valley between the rows of bumps on both sides.

What does AMG has for # ??

Is there anyone else with info on this ?????


AMG blocks also have the 506 casting numbers, also 506 cast in the valley in raised bumps just like the gm blocks. The only visual differences I can see are the International "Diamond" in the valley under the injector pump and AMG uses a different casting date code behind the pass side head. I will try to snap some PIC's of an AMG long block and post them here. Have a recently purchased AMG block with a date code of 02 02 behind pass head, is this February of 2002 ??? I am not sure. This would make it cast 5 years ago.

I called AMG and they dont deal with the public only gm and hummer dealerships same with GEP. Oil burner where did you get your AMG Block.

Go to Peninsular Diesel

I need help on how to insert a picture in the post.:eek:

Go to "Post Reply" under this message. Go below the text box and click on "manage attachments" You can then insert your pic. Files size has to be small just over 100k

Dave

A place called Dahlmer [sp] powertrain around St.Louis, Mo. sells the updated Amg block in longblock form, I'll try to get their contact info.

Go to "Post Reply" under this message. Go below the text box and click on "manage attachments" You can then insert your pic. Files size has to be small just over 100k

Dave

won't work, uploading takes forever, need more info.:eek: :o: :( :mad:

Hey oil burner if you could get that info on Dahlmer powertrain that would be awsome, thanks

won't work, uploading takes forever, need more info.:eek: :o: :( :mad:

I don't know what else to tell you. How big is the file? What speed internet connection are you working off?

Dave

has 506 and diamond in the valley. Sorry for imperfect picture, was best i could get.

Has the correct identification....could be Chinese though based on reverse engineering....what other numbers are on it?

Has the correct identification....could be Chinese though based on reverse engineering....what other numbers are on it?

I haven't a clue,

I would like to get more opinions about this pic. :D

Anybody ?

I called AMG and they dont deal with the public only gm and hummer dealerships same with GEP. Oil burner where did you get your AMG Block.


Here is a chat I had with 65ldiesel.com

I wonder how they got their AMG blocks...



You are now chatting with : 65LDIESEL
You : Hi,
65LDIESEL: can i help you
You : Could you tell me where you get your AMG blocks from?
65LDIESEL: the long block
You : Yes - do you have your own offshore foundry or are your blocks cast in the US?
65LDIESEL: we cast offshore
65LDIESEL: and we have us cast block
You : So then it isn't a true AMG block as advertised?
65LDIESEL: we have AMG OE LONG BLOCK
You : Does the AMG OE long block come with 18:1 pistons?
65LDIESEL: YES
You : What kind of warranty is on that engine? Do you ship to Canada?
65LDIESEL: YES WE SHIP TO CANADA THE WARRANTY ONE YEAR
You : How do you ship?
You : ??
65LDIESEL: roadway
You : Thanks for your time!

Here is a chat I had with 65ldiesel.com

I wonder how they got their AMG blocks...



You are now chatting with : 65LDIESEL
You : Hi,
65LDIESEL: can i help you
You : Could you tell me where you get your AMG blocks from?
65LDIESEL: the long block
You : Yes - do you have your own offshore foundry or are your blocks cast in the US?
65LDIESEL: we cast offshore
65LDIESEL: and we have us cast block
You : So then it isn't a true AMG block as advertised?
65LDIESEL: we have AMG OE LONG BLOCK
You : Does the AMG OE long block come with 18:1 pistons?
65LDIESEL: YES
You : What kind of warranty is on that engine? Do you ship to Canada?
65LDIESEL: YES WE SHIP TO CANADA THE WARRANTY ONE YEAR
You : How do you ship?
You : ??
65LDIESEL: roadway
You : Thanks for your time!

Chris -

You are just the chatting fool, aren't you? *slap* :D

Later!

LOL.....

*harp* *bird*

*choochoo*

:P

First, I find it very interesting some of the comments on here. First, I invite anyone that wants to see these blocks first had, to stop by my location. You can take pictures to your hearts content. We have nothing to hid here. You can also go on my website ad see the video's of these engines going together. Are we a perfect company, no we aren't but we have been here for 12 years now, and there are always two sides to every story.

Bison was sent picture per his request at the email address he gave me on the phone and I did have two phone conversations with him. I offered to sell him a block or come look at them. He wanted to know my source on them for what it seemed he could buy build and sell them direct. I am not in business so people can duplicate what I do and compete against me. Sometimes that might come off as arrogant, but it is also a fact of doing business in an extremely agressive market.

Peninsular Diesel, Kennedy Diesel are both great companies with great product out in the field. But why hasn't anyone brought up Franklin Power? They are building engines using new blocks for Reviva. What about Jasper Engines, they are purchasing new blocks as well. How many people know who was soliciting buyers for the new AM General engines for GEP? I have all the purchase contracts here in my office for the Optimax 6500, how many companies are expected to buy and the other interesting tid bits. I would be happy to show interested parties some of those pages when they stop by for a coffee.

The easiest way to tell what you are getting is to see if they have a core charge. If they do, then you obviously aren't getting something new, otherwise they wouldn't need them back.

65Ldiesel.com is an interesting company, they used to be called AAA Diesel, then International Diesel. They claim the dyno test all their engines. Ask if you can stop by their location and check things out. See what they say. Ask to see their dyno's.

Bottom line is, that the comments made about RJ Performance are not correct or justified. If we had bad product out in the market and we weren't standing behind it then yeah the comments would be justified. But to say "Run Fast" or that we are "Liars" with out seeing things first hand isn't right. We have had problems with different products and we have resolved them. Sometimes not as fast as some people would like to see, but they have always been resolved.

If people have questions call me, if you want to know how our engines run I will give you customers phone numbers.

Jonathon Campbell
General Manager
RJ Performance

I believe the problems started when RJ Performance tried passing off their Chinese cast blocks as being genuine AMG blocks...

Optimax is not the same as Optimizer.....is it?

Buyer Beware...

Use the Better Business Bureau......HINT HINT!!!

Chrisk1500 you know of a place that will sell them, I have been phoning around a bunch of places (D.A.S in BC, and DSG in Alberta) and no one can give me a straight answer, the only one that has in peninsular.

In 36 months we have had three complaints, one has been addressed and resolved but two remain outstanding from the same complaintant. A ford engine was delivered to a customer that signed for the product. After removing the packaging damages were noted, but the freight company delcined the claim because the damages were not noted on the bill of lading when it was signed for. When we ship product it is in as promised condition, and we couldn't come to an agreement with this customer as we could not accept liability for freight damages. In the last 28 months we have had no complaints issued against us.

Optimax is not the same as Optimizer.....is it?


RJPerformance -

Could you answer this question please?

Thanks!

Chrisk1500 you know of a place that will sell them, I have been phoning around a bunch of places (D.A.S in BC, and DSG in Alberta) and no one can give me a straight answer, the only one that has in peninsular.


As far as I know Peninsular and GM are the only companies that have TRUE AMG blocks....there are all kinds of reverse engineered knock offs out there with all of the correct markings but metal composition could be suspect...

I will try and contact AMG and GEP and find out for sure...

I phoned them before and they will not sell to the public. Only GM and Hummer dealerships so the guy told me I would be interested to see what they tell you.

RJPerformance -

Could you answer this question please?

Thanks!

In my opinion they are one in the same, just a mix up in name but it seems everyone is referencing the same engine that AM General redesigned when they bought the rights from GM. We as you know market under the name Xceptional 6500. And as I have mentioned in previous posts we piggy back our orders off of an AM General Contracted builder and as advertised do the final assembly here in Calgary, which I am happy to show anyone.

Thanks,
Jonathon

So you are saying that the blocks you sell are 100% AMG?

RJPerformance - I am not trying to rock the boat but when you posted at the other site with this comment, " At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement", it made me shiver because on YOUR site it used to say "optimax 6.5"

Don't believe me? Follow these simple steps:

1. Go to google and type in 'rj performance optimax diesel'
2. Click on the 'cached' portion of the first site
3. See that RJ Performance sells the 6.5 diesel as an Optimax/Xceptional 6500
4. chrisk1500 rests his case

dzlrig , here is the info I have for : Dahmer Powertrain Inc. 2301 NE. Independence Ave. Lee's Summit, Mo. 64064. Ph. # 1-800-841-6060. The company I work for purchases 6.5 long blocks from them, I don't know if they sell to the public or just bussiness. They do sell new AMG long blocks as I have installed 6 in the last few years from them, I work for a large corporation and the purchasing is done at the corporate level so I don't have any details regarding that. If you are truely interested in one give them a call and see what they say, let us know the results of your inquiry.

For what its worth here's a number i found, no other info in the ad. Give em a call and see whats up their sleeve.

G.M. DIESEL
6.5L Engines
New Design
No Core
Only $4195
877-933-3644

Oh and if i'm stepping on toes here mods, just delete the info and the guys can PM me for the number.

Jonathon -

I took this quote of yours from another diesel site,

"I would very much like to diclose where we are purchasing the raw materials for our Xceptional 6500 engines, which is what we advertise and sell. What I can tell you is that all our orders are piggy backed from larger contract builders for AM General. At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement."

Then why did you turn around and says this on another site?

"The 6.5L diesel engines are notorious for cracking cylinder heads and blocks. But if the block was messed up you would have water in the oil pan. Sounds like the head is cracked and you are loosing compression there. I would say you have two choices, pull the head on the bank that is missing and take a look, cracks will be noticable to the eye. That being the case purchase a new head casting. If the cylinder wall is cracked then you need a new engine. Be careful what you buy as they won't give you any core credit. So buy a engine from someone with out a core charge. The Xceptional 6500 and Optimax 6500 are the way to go for sure. Good luck."

Just trying to help you clean up the air....were you indicating that RJPerformance sells both the Xceptional and Optimax 6500 as I used to see on your site?

Jonathon -

I took this quote of yours from another diesel site,

"I would very much like to diclose where we are purchasing the raw materials for our Xceptional 6500 engines, which is what we advertise and sell. What I can tell you is that all our orders are piggy backed from larger contract builders for AM General. At no time have we indicated to sell or market Optimax or Optimizer 6500 as that would be trade mark infringement."

Then why did you turn around and says this on another site?

"The 6.5L diesel engines are notorious for cracking cylinder heads and blocks. But if the block was messed up you would have water in the oil pan. Sounds like the head is cracked and you are loosing compression there. I would say you have two choices, pull the head on the bank that is missing and take a look, cracks will be noticable to the eye. That being the case purchase a new head casting. If the cylinder wall is cracked then you need a new engine. Be careful what you buy as they won't give you any core credit. So buy a engine from someone with out a core charge. The Xceptional 6500 and Optimax 6500 are the way to go for sure. Good luck."

Just trying to help you clean up the air....were you indicating that RJPerformance sells both the Xceptional and Optimax 6500 as I used to see on your site?


RJ never sold the Optimax 6500, the discription as you pointed out isn't a reference from our website but rather a discription put into the search engine registration page. There is no pricing listed and it was simply a tag to generate more hits.

We were offered to Optimax / Optimizer 6500 that they were putting the program together two years ago, but to order 100 units cash up front and no definit delivery schedule and no warranty didn't work for us. And yes I have the paper work to back that up.

As per my posting, as I am sure you know you can't try and sell product on the forum postings, and as such I made a recomendation of not only would our Xceptional 6500 work for this fellow, but also an Optimax 6500 from any vendor he should choose. So I recommended both engines.

It would be really nice, if you stop all the negative postings till you would take the time to look at our product.

These forums are great for information, but no one has reported any problems with the blocks we carry or the short or long block assemblies that we sell. So please Chris give it a break.

I will give it a rest when you answer this simple question:

Do you sell GENUINE AMG blocks cast in the USA or do you sell blocks cast overseas?

By contract I can't tell you the company that we are piggy backing orders from. All these postings have caused me to send a letter to our supplier asking questions and more specifics and also asking if we can provide more information to our customers. So I will need time to hear back from them to answer that correctly. I do know that one of the US foundries these were to be comming from had closed it's doors several months ago because labor rates and competition from other countries including Argentina, UK, and Germany.

So I ask for a little patients as well as relying on the fact that over the past 9 months we haven't had any problems with the bare blocks, short blocks or long blocks. We are still happy to provide customer names and numbers for references.

Thanks,

one of the US foundries these were to be comming from had closed it's doors several months ago

That's all I needed to know....thanks Jonathon

I need new engine and will love to get one loccaly but the last thing i want is a block cast in china. I'll stop by next week for a chat.

Is the dimond only on the blocks from AMG or chineess have them too ?


DSG just lower its price on long block
http://www.dieselservices.com/html/whats_new/index.cfm?view=article&wnID=16

Anything can be done through reverse engineering....don't get sucked in...

When in doubt just remember - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

If navistar is casting gep blocks & they closed their doors i would be shocked. I suppose anything is possible. Penninsular is the only aftermarket supplier that i know for a fact sells genuine NEW complete 6.5s, not reman. I bought my engine from them last fall and i work close by. I actually saw with my own eyes the new engines sitting on the shipping pallet. Its not a standard pallet but an elaborate steel rig that holds multiple engines. All documentation on the shipping rig said property of gep. Matt buys both standard compression & 18:1 marine engines from them. You can literally pick the one you want from the ones on the shipping rig. With as many of these engines there are in military service i am shure there are authorized rebuilders out there that can buy parts from gep, they probably have contracts with the us government. My guess is the guys selling gep stuff have hooked up with one of the rebuilders working for the gov thus the PIGGYBACK deal. My opinion(for what its worth) is if you want a brand new gep engine you either go through penninsular or a gm dealer.

The 6.5 costs too darn much to take chances on questionable products when repowering. I haven't seen any sign of a straight answer as to what blocks are being used. Over the years I have learned this: AMG owns the rights to the 6.5. Their plant (GEP) builds ALL of the new engines. We toured this plant in 2000 or 2001 prior to the revision of the block castings. The blocks are now cast by a single company and are readily identifiable by the diamond in the valley. These blocks are available exclusively via contract to ONE rebuilder. They come with the camshaft and bearings installed. The rest of the short block (excluding bearings, lifters, oil pump, pistons etc is reman.

I'm a small business owner and if i were selling something i would want to know what and where it's coming from before i would put my name behind it. Just my 2 cents.... Would love to get one of those cheaper blocks i'm in need right now but don't want to gamble and have it be a piece of junk..

The 6.5 costs too darn much to take chances on questionable products when repowering. I haven't seen any sign of a straight answer as to what blocks are being used. Over the years I have learned this: AMG owns the rights to the 6.5. Their plant (GEP) builds ALL of the new engines. We toured this plant in 2000 or 2001 prior to the revision of the block castings. The blocks are now cast by a single company and are readily identifiable by the diamond in the valley. These blocks are available exclusively via contract to ONE rebuilder. They come with the camshaft and bearings installed. The rest of the short block (excluding bearings, lifters, oil pump, pistons etc is reman.Kennedy
do you wanna go back a page and look under my post with pic , and tell me if this is a AMG block

Kennedy
do you wanna go back a page and look under my post with pic , and tell me if this is a AMG block

Tough to tell by the pic, but like said earlier, an exact appearing duplicate isn't difficult to make...

Wanna hear a real killer? International offered to sell me a "new" longblock for $700 more than I already paid for the reman longblock, rather than replace the returned reman. Hmmm, I asked who builds them. He says "we do." I ask if they use AMG new design blocks. He says "yes." I ask, where do you get them? He says "they are made in Michigan." ( I was startin to smell bull poop) I say "NO THANKS." I'll take my chances on the reman, as much as that scares me.
Ted

He says "they are made in Michigan."

Oops....wrong state....LOL

Has anyone on here tried on of "those" blocks.... Don't want to be the first but tempting..... Given all the reman stories...

Still waiting on Ratman and TD's block analysis....been waiting for a while now...

Yeh talked with turbine doc the other day and said he's getting one of these but wouldn't get the crank just yet. Said he would go with a different aftermarket or a gm one...

can you tell a good block by the casting #'s.

Still waiting on Ratman and TD's block analysis....been waiting for a while now...he has only the crank analized, NOT the block :eek:

how did the crank turn out..:eek: :( :)

he has only the crank analized, NOT the block :eek:


OUCH!!!


But seriously...they took samples of both the crank and the block..

OUCH!!!


But seriously...they took samples of both the crank and the block.. That is what Ratman told me. Just the crank is being analyzed

Hmm....I remember seeing pics of someone taking a drill to a 'chinese' block....could have been on another forum....not sure why they would only take a sample of the crank...

how did the crank turn out..:eek: :( :)there is no answer on that yet, as far as i know

Only samples sent in were crank samples, 1st test showed both samples submitted for the GM & aftermarket crank are carbon steel, machine used can't discern more than that, as reported in the other post they sure were hard to cut, and aftermarket seemed to be a tougher cut than the GM crank, I also have another avenue I'm trying to get an indepth "lab" quality breakdown run, still waiting for a reply on that effort, getting things done for free ain't easy sometimes, will try the free route, if not possible for free I may try to find a paid lab to run them.

As near I can tell visually the aftermarket block is superior to the GM block, once it becomes available I guess I'll be 1st "test builder" on that block as the base of my platform; there was a backorder on them still 3 weeks ago supposed to maybe be some available soon.

I suspect but have no proof these may be culls from AM Gen or whoever AM Gen gets them from, that did not make the mil spec grade with some sort of under dimension or other blem, and could not be marked as AM gen Blocks for military sale, (DD & several others selling them are fairly adamant these "mystery source" blocks are US origin) or they are Chinese; either way I'm going to try it.

Nice, Tim. Thanks for the update! I'm also impressed that you're gonna try out one of these blocks - please keep us in the loop!

Jim

PS - I am glad that you're giving DD the benefit of the doubt - as long as he's making good on his promises, I see no reason not to give him his shot.

well after reading this entire thread, i am now confused. I called GEP and spoke with those folks about wanting to get a block, they sent me to International Diesel. I spoke with the guys at International/max power marine about an engine and was told that they couldn't sell me a new navistar cast block, but the could sell me a used one fully machined to my spec for 1400 bucks. thats a lot of cash for a used block but it is a stronger metal and bored to my specs. They also said fully assembled heads, new navistar castings also, are 475 each.

so is that a good idea or am i getting the bait and switch. I figured since GEP sent me to international it was on the up and up.

micky

Nice, Tim. Thanks for the update! I'm also impressed that you're gonna try out one of these blocks - please keep us in the loop!

Jim

PS - I am glad that you're giving DD the benefit of the doubt - as long as he's making good on his promises, I see no reason not to give him his shot.


For the record, Kris at Diesel Direct has made 100% good on the return of funds on the freight damaged block and crank. :thumb:

I have since ordered more stuff from him, -no problems whatsoever.

F.Y.I.

Rich.

well after reading this entire thread, i am now confused. I called GEP and spoke with those folks about wanting to get a block, they sent me to International Diesel. I spoke with the guys at International/max power marine about an engine and was told that they couldn't sell me a new navistar cast block, but the could sell me a used one fully machined to my spec for 1400 bucks. thats a lot of cash for a used block but it is a stronger metal and bored to my specs. They also said fully assembled heads, new navistar castings also, are 475 each.

so is that a good idea or am i getting the bait and switch. I figured since GEP sent me to international it was on the up and up.

micky

I wonder when AMG/GEP are gonna pull their sorry heads outta there a$$es and realize there is a demand for NEW parts in the civilian market?

Oh yeah, I forgot, THEY DON'T CARE, because they are eating so well due to the military contracts they have. :mad:

As far as I'm concerned, they can take their new motors and go peee up a rope.

Sorry mods, -rant over..........

Rich.

was that a rant due to your recent mishap with a new block?

was that a rant due to your recent mishap with a new block?

No, it has nothing to do with that whatsoever.

What it does have something to do with is the fact that AMG/GEP is refusing to make NEW hard parts available to the civilian market such as blocks, cranks, etc. They are happy to sell us civilians a complete new motor, -just no new parts.

Screw 'em. ;)

Rich.

Rant was , as would be mine, that AMG is not selling short or bare blocks only long blocks for premium $$$.

I'm using a new Diesel Direct block for my build, same brand as Ratman turned away that was damaged in shipment, due in any day now. I looked over the damaged block myself at DD's shop, other than the damage in shipping I saw nothing wrong with the block.

I've read over this thread, and in my opinion if someone is trying to sell and stand by their products then why can he not definatly say yes or no whether it was made in the US.... And I also noticed he didnt address the injector problem that was mentioned earlier....

I hope I get many more miles out of my motor but when the time comes I know who wont get my bussiness....

Buyer beware....