I had a stage V installed about a month after a stage III. Had problems with the stage III shifting and some other issues. Seems that the other issues are cleared up but still having shift problems. The 2 to 3 shift has a long slip between it. Almost sounds as though you were driving a standard and pushed the clutch. Right after the install it was fine, it seemed to clear up the problem but now it's back and becoming more frequent by the day. Also have a drive line clunk with the new tranny but that might be a universal or loose tranny mount.


If it helps any, it shifts very hard when cold and as it warms you can't feel the shifts at all then it does the slip thing. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have to be super hot to start acting up. Gotta be something with line pressure I would think, but I'm no mechanic.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif Edited by: Murray the Cop

Little history.





The Suncoast level III was installed by who?


The level V was a complete drop in built by Suncoast?


Same converter?


Ever do a fast learn or any resetting of the TCM?





Mac

Eric installed both. He got the 5 from suncoast. Yes we used the same converter,but this shift was present with the stock tranny. One of the reasons I had it done. Eric did a fast learn when he installed it, but didn't say anything about resetting the TCM. Eric is looking into it, said something about the adapts. Last I spoke to him he was contacting Joe. Are the adapts in the tranny itself or part of the TCM? Edited by: Murray the Cop

Yes the Adaptive learn is all part of the TCM.





Sounds like you have a possible TCM failure.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Time to run some movies of the TCM. We have eliminated trans because we have a complete replacment. I doubt if the TCM is bad; so I suspect an erronious sensor reading telling TCM there is no load on the trans or a ground problem which is usually the culprit. Full data scan is a must on the engine side as well as the trans side. I would be very interested in what the scanner shows on the transfer case as well. Pressures are uasually commanded lower in 4wheel low.

mike

Have to wonder why if it's a sensor or solenoid why no DTC's?





Mac

if it happened in the stock trans/stage 3 equipped trans and in the stage 5 trans.............then it can't be the same because they are two different core units. How many miles do you have on the new unit? I have close to 1K on the rebuild and it is still throwing an occasional weird shift at me and I reset all the taps individually at the time of installation. What power are you running? My truck has the same defuel feeling on shifts with the edge, even with the defuel set to OFF. I ran a Quad 215 yesterday and it shifted smoother/quicker that the juice ever did. Some things to think about.

if it happened in the stock trans/stage 3 equipped trans and in the stage 5 trans.............then it can't be the same because they are two different core units. How many miles do you have on the new unit? I have close to 1K on the rebuild and it is still throwing an occasional weird shift at me and I reset all the taps individually at the time of installation. What power are you running? My truck has the same defuel feeling on shifts with the edge, even with the defuel set to OFF. I ran a Quad 215 yesterday and it shifted smoother/quicker that the juice ever did. Some things to think about.


I know that "SOME" programmers or plug-and-play boxes will hang on the 2-3 shift real bad..........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif


If two seperate tranny's are doing it in the same truck and the shift hang seems to always be on the 2-3.........hmmmmmm..........are you running it it Tow Haul or Normal........


Does the TC lock up real strong............or kind of lazy ????


I know when the Triple Disk TC I have locks down it feels like hs shifted into another gear......


I think maybe you should start trying "OTHER" tunes or boxes to rule that out........http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifNY


Edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

I tired both the juice with attitude and the predator. I did this on the original tranny and the stage three, both boxes caused the shift. I haven't tried it on the 5 yet but I think it's gonna be a waste of time. As far as the lock up, it's pretty hard in all gears. I have not been running it in tow haul mode. I'll try that for awhile and see if I get the same shift. I was working on a new ecm or pcm (wich ever) cause I was thinking about the TTS extreme deal and wanted to have the stock one available. I figured I would also get the tcm while I was at it, to see if that helped. Its getting to be a replace it till it's fixed deal and I'm running out of cash fast.

If it did what you are saying on the stock transmission as well........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


So then if the complete transmission went back as a core except for the TC and the problem has always been present it rules out the transmission I would think......


Maybe it is in the ECM or TCM.........


Good Luck.





Tony

How about we diagnose the problem before we condem the computer. Seems like the computer never gets any respect. It's the favorite target lately, and is rarely the problem.
mike

We have to assign blame , even if it's not the computers fault http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gifNY

I have to admit, Anthony's truck has really thrown me a curve ball. I didnt drive the truck with the stock trans before tearin it down ( my fault) but on the road test after the III, Anthony pointed out that wierd shift to me. Didnt seem to do it in T/H. Condition worsened and we discussed possible solutions. I had leaned on a valve body possibly, but its hard to tell and guess on a trans that is ~700 miles away.


Anthony made the trip back and we installed a Level V, reusing the triple lock. Cleared adapts and drove, trans really seemed to shift nice. We were both happy and he was on his way home. I get a call a few days later and its doing it again...ARGH!


Obviously, the trans or any of its compenents can be ruled out. The sensors, converter, NSBU(not that it would do this anyways) and anything else under the truck.


We ran the truck with his JAT and my HJAT, also his Predater.


I am very confused on what the H would cause this concern and wish I had the truck handy to pick at it and try and find a solution. I still have the stock transmission with the III installed in my garage, I want to get it on the stand and disect it and find out what was ( I thought) causing this, but seeing the completely different trans do the same thing....I wont look so hard.


I had made a phone call to an Engineer I know at Allison regarding this and he suggested possibly a problem with the B trim circuit. Anthony mentioned that when his truck was stock, after towing his camper and coming home, backing up the driveway, it seemed to 'slide-bump' into reverse, almost a double engagement. The 2-3 shift and the reverse engagement shared an operation and for fear of providing incorrect info, I wont repeat what he was talking about as I cant remember accurate details, anyways, the circuit was not filling fast enough. Or at least that was his thought.


I am open to anybody here who has any idea's whatso ever and I know that Anthony is toohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif

Can't believe anything inside the tranny can be the culprit. Being out on the Island get ahold of Ratdoc and his Tech II.He could do some long distance Tech'ing.


Give some Phone .





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gifEdited by: Mackin

Ratdoc? How do I contact him?

RATDOC = Tom and he hasn't been here in awhile must be busy. Eric knows who I'm talking about and he will need to communicate with him direct to tell Tom what to look for.


I can start the ball rolling and call him first if need be.I'm sure something could be setup.


Mac

I will call Eric to see if he can contact him. If not I would appreciate the help with contacting him. This truck has been a thorn in Erics side since he started work on it. Eric, just another cracked cinder block!!!!

I used the predator instead of the juice tonight. Allthough I don't like the feeling of the predator, the 2 to 3 shift still had some space after the long hwy ride but it wasn't as bad as the juice. One trip in and out of work is probably not enough to tell but I figure the more info I give, the better, for someone to help me get this figured out. I'm gonna try it stock but I think the shift is only present with the extra HP. At least that was the case before the tranny upgrades. Different sensors and ground problems have been mentioned. Where should I be looking or can these only be found with a Tech II? I can't take sitting on my @$$ waiting for this thing to surface. Thanks

You are aware of the adaptive learn process. I will get flared shifts when I switch power levels until the Allison learns what to do with the Torque.


I have always recommended leave the power up (if not towing) and let it learn. The more you switch power brands and levels the more confusing it gets.


I would run the Juice defuel off, Max power setting and drive it.It will takes at least 6 or more complete shifts through all the gears at various throttle position to have it settle down,even in Tow Haul.


Next thing you know it will be rattling off the shifts.I'll give RatDoc a call if need be but Eric needs to be involved to receive the results of the data he needs.





Mac Edited by: Mackin

Mac, the truck had been through the fast learn with Eric and the juice had been set to 125 and driven for almost a week before the problem arose again. It seems that it happens on a moderate accelleration. After a long hwy ride it is almost a definite on the first time through the gears after a stop. It will also pop up just driving around town with the moderate accel. The truck was shifting perfect for the first few days after the initial learning then it started again. Drove the predator a little today and although it is still there it is not as bad. Edited by: Murray the Cop

As I understand it fast learn resets all values at for a better word zero. Now it must relearn.


I have always broke my tranny in at full power under the recommendation of Suncoast.


You will have some bumpy shifts during this process until you achieve coverage.


Put that Sum B!tch on the Ferry in Port Jefferson, I'll break that Bronco in!





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifEdited by: Mackin

Just a stab in the dark, but how are your pin connects were the wiring harness connects to the tcm??? Make sure the solenoid pin connects are making solid contact. Could be making contact intermitantly and making it work for a while and then screwing things up http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


I had almost the same situation, and it was the pin connect not making proper contact and causing grief. We spotted it on the tech 2, as the solenoid was not showing proper voltage. I had this on going for about a month until we finally found it, as it would be fine for a couple of days, then act up.


Just a thought, solved my problem, though yours is a little different, might be an easy fix, hopefully. Good luck. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Jeremy, what were your symptoms? That is a valid thing to look for no doubt, that harness can be tight in there sometimes and stretch things a bit.

I through a code after I did my install when I hit a bubble while doing the fill cycle. It througha code for that and the ses light and there was also a code in there for Low voltage. Just once and I yanked my harness and sprayed it down with some contact cleaner and never got it again. The conector was a bit grubby from the installhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif Duno if it was becasue of it being dirty or if it was a fluke or what? Duno if is anything in your sit and probably not but its and easy cheap try.


Normaly I find if you call something a dirty biatch it seems to be the majic words? You tried that yet?

ATTENTION: The following post is a temporary hijack of your regularly scheduled thread:



Philip,



That only works if you are holding a BFH!



Dennis



And now, back to your thread.

I got the guys over at edge to send me out a new box with a little coaxing. Real good customer service over there. I will check all pin connections when I put the juice back in. Trying to get an ECM and TCM as I type. They are gonna have to be programed I would think. What regulates the pressure in the tranny telling it when to shift? Is there sensor or something? Does the tcm send a signal to the tranny when to shift by what the ecm signal is telling it? I'm just trying to undrstand the whole circuit. It can't be the internal tranny electronics anymore seeing as how it was a complete replacement. I appreciate all the help so far. Thanks

Jeremy, what were your symptoms? That is a valid thing to look for no doubt, that harness can be tight in there sometimes and stretch things a bit.








My truck was giving some weird shifting, 2-3 shift typically, but sometimes 4-5 as well. We changed solenoids thinking it would be an easy quick fix as no codes were popping up or no other symptoms(slipping). It would last a couple of days then be gone for a week and back again. Hard to diagnose it when it would just stop acting up when ever it felt like it. New solenoids didn't make a difference at all.


Near the end, days before we found the pin connect, i would be slowing for a stop and the truck would feel like it downshifted too many gears and stay locked in that gear upon acceleration. At that point it did throw a code, can't remember now as it was a couple or 3 months ago now. Anyways, we were browsing around with the tech 2 in the tranny section, ans we noticed that the voltage to the solenoid was quiet low, almost non existant. Found in the shop manuals the wire # and color to where it goes into the tcm, and found the female end was spread open a bit too much to make good contact on the male pin http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif. Put a new female connect in and problem fixed.


I can't take credit for the fix, as it was my tech Todd who found it. Thanks Todd http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


My problem was somewhat similar as i read, other than mine eventually started throwing codes, and locking the shifts up.

OK driving it stock now and not one bad shift yet. Stiill clunking though. Gotta check the u joints.

Checked the u joints, not the culprit. No loose tranny mounts either. Took it to a friend that owns a tranny shop. He says its in the tranny. Feels just like a loose mount without the loose mount. Called Joe at Suncoast and waiting for a call back. So now I have a tranny that clunks out of first and can't have any boxes installed because the 2 to 3 shift has a slip/delay between them. All this for about 35000 not including the trany upgrade.Tell me again why I bought a Chevy.

Just another thing to think about........


Have you checked the Transfer Case at all..........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif


There is another speed sensor is located on the transfer case as well...........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


Maybe rule that out since you are on a different transmission with the same problems............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif


Just trying to help out..........





Good Luck,





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gifNY

Where is the sensor on the transfer case. Seems that even stock the 2 to 3 shift is really hard to feel. Seems it is the laziest shift.All other shifts are real strong. Just finished a tow of about 200 miles and no 2 to 3 problems stock in tow haul except that it is hard to feel. Not really a bad thing just makes me think maybe the problem is there and I just can't feel it untill I put some HP through. Maybe the tranny is sensing more torque than is actually there and is delaying the shift. I'll check that sensor on the transfer case once I find it. Anybody know where I can find an ECM and TCM, my deal has all but fallen through. Thanks Edited by: Murray the Cop

Mine does the same thing.. It's done it forever.. I thought the suncoast would remedy the problem, though it still shifts with a large pause between shifts... I took the edge completely off and ran just the 120 predator and it shifted "great".. It's like the edge is defueling even though it's not supposed to.. Has anyone had this problem with the edge and sent it in to get it fixed with success?? If so, it's getting boxed up...


My truck also clunked when you put it in gear since it was new... The dealership said it was "normal" for the allison.. Joe could't find the cause of it either...

Even though EDGE will never admit it, I believe that even with the attitude set to NO DEFUEL it still follows the ECM when it defuels on all shifts. I ran the Quad 215 solo on my truck and it shifted a lot better than the EDGE. As soon as I stacked it with the EDGE the defuel "feeling" was back. So until I am proven wrong I say the EDGE defuels no matter what, just different amounts.

I tried the predator on 120 and still got the pause between the 2 and 3 shift. The edge will not over-ride (for loss of better term) the defuel that the allison itself provides. My truck stock shifts perfectly. It would seem that it is some type of sensor for the torque that is mis-reading the level and causing the pause. Weather it is in a sensor, tcm or pcm I don't know.

all of this switching is making the situation worse... stick with one box and drive it...........its gonna take more than ten or 15 miles to relearn.........Sounds like with all that you have done the tap cells should be cleared individualy...........The are some TCMS availible depending on your connections...but they are closely held. CLEAR THE TAPCELLS AS INDIVIDUALS....PUT THE EDGE ON LEVEL 5.........DRIVE WITH LIGHT THROTTLE THRU THE GEARS STARTING AND STOPPING 5 OR SIX TIMES.....REPEAT WITH MODERATE THROTTLE.........REPEAT AGAIN WITH HEAVY THROTTLE.......I too would check the pins in the connectors on the tranny.

The truck was driven for over a thousand miles after the install and all adapts were cleared. It drove fine untill just recently. I did not change anything untill the problem showed up again. The truck is doing the same thing stock now. I guess it learned. Spoke to Eric, he seems to think I should get hold of a diagnostic tool and hook it up and get a snapshot of when it happens. Just got off ebay looking for a tech 2 or equivalent. Big money! for the tech 2 anyway. Anybody have any experience with other tools such as snap on that will do what I need it to? Seems the snap on tools are much less expensive.

see instructions in caps above read and follow...........

I duno if it will do all that a tech 2 will in this case or if it will do what you need but I have been happy with my snapon scanner and it will do movies and snapshots and clear taps and let you look at a bunch of stuff. I have an "2001" cartrage in my scanner and it works on my 03. I just have to lie to the scanner and tell it my truck is an 01.

take the money you would spend on a scanner and pay a shop that has it and knows how to use it to fix it or at least diag it for far less money.

Found a guy with a tech 2 wants 95 to hook it up 95 an hour after. Ran DTC codes with predator and came up with a Nd 024. Not recognized on auto tap. Any ideas? I think its a speed sensor code but not sure. Also whats the deal with the not ran scans with the Predator? Got about 40 of them. No lights no other symptoms other than the shift.

If you have recently reset the fault codes, some of the diagnostic routines will have not run yet. Example - there is a diagnostic routine that checks the high and low range of the fuel gauge sensor. If you have not run your fuel down to a low enough level, the diagnostic routine will show up as "not run".

Anybody with a tech2 or the like in LI NY area? Need scan will pay! Ordered a tech2, got the tech2, almost killed the wife and am about to return the tech2. 7 months pregnant and I can't take it anymore. Can someone help with one of my problems, the truck? Edited by: Murray the Cop

I think I may know what the problem is. Super Diesel was having the same problem with his Full ATS even after they went into the tranny and replaced all the clutch packs. It turned out to be his shift pressure solenoid, or something like that. As it happens the solenoid is about $140 or so and ATS did all the work for about $300. You may want to PM Super Diesel and find out what the name of the solenoid was and have it replaced. But he was having the exact same slip problem in 3 gear and then eventually it wouldn't even shift into gear when it finally went completely out.


Hope this helps.


Wade

Sorry about your Pregnancy accident?Your hormones are just raging! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


What did you find out while you had the Tech II?


Mac

Sent the tech 2 back ( before I used it) and ordered a genesis. Should recieve it in a few days. Couldn't justify 3000. Really couldn't justfy $1600 but I'm in about $1300 less trouble and I can use it on all cars and trucks too. Genesis should do everything I need, not a tech 2 but close enough. Talked to a few local GM techs and consensus is to look for voltage drop at time of occurence. None had seen the problem before. Possible tcm or ecm failure. Have both but need to have them programmed. ERIC WHERE ARE YOU???

I would look for voltage spike at time of occurance if you are experiencing a slip.( very rare)

mike

Wade, one thing I didnt think about when we were on the phone today.... This condition has been felt with two completely different transmissions.


I wanna see a snap shot of this happening, and a snap shot of it not happening. I cant get it with out TIS-2000 programming though. I surely cant read a Genisis snap shot unless it can be put on a disk... That scan tool money could have went to a West coast program...

Pretty much at a stand still, recovering from surgery. Have a TCM and ECM being reprogramed stock for the truck. This will rule out computer failure, and I'll have another ECM to send to TTS if nothing else. Gonna need a shop manual sooner or later. Always liked the old printed version but some say cd is the way to go. Any ideas where to get one or both at a good price? Its been a while since anybody posted on this problem but any other suggestions will be welcome. Edited by: Murray the Cop

bump

I just bought the shop manual from Helms. 5 huge books that cover a lot for 135.00
mike

Pretty cool aren't they, 30 pounds of information. Printed on
'bible' paper, too. Once I read those things, I'll know enough to
be dangerous.. . . .Well, probably not, but sounds good.

Where did you purchase them from?

Helm Inc (http://www.helminc.com/helm/Dealer.asp?make=CHV&Style=&mscsid=H3XN9386JDNL9NMK XMQL7P0E5FC07VAD)








Mac

......... Murry, you should only need one book. There is language in the other books that you will not understand. Eric could...... he has the tools and can read code.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





Burner-------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif