I do not plan on any serious transmission upgrades but have thought about a larger capacity pan.. 1. Does it really make much of a difference?? 2. Do you have to change dipsticks as well?? 3. What type of pan is the best?? Thanks in advance..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

I used a stock deep steel allison pan. Dont think you will notice any drop in temps but things will not have the peaks and valleys so to speak. Takes longer to get hot but it also takes longer to cool down. Its a good thing IMO becasue more fluid is always better. Much better or will it make a difference? Maybe maybe not but it cant hurt. Cheap too, I bought mine from eric(dmaxallitech)


Same dipstick


Depends if you want a cool "bling bling" pan go for a aluminumor mag or the like.


If you just want something to work and dont care if it is super trick looking buy a stock steel allison pan. Aluminum in theory would shed heat a bit better but I dont think anyone has seen it?

I think any time you can add fluid capacity, its a good thing. I wouldnt expect to see lower temps though.


Like ratlover said, you can go simple with the Allison pan or go out and do a cast aluminum pan..bling bling

It's really easy to do especially if you plan to switch to Transynd. I found a local heavy truck shop that is an Allison dealer. They had the deep pan, suction filter and Transynd in stock. Followed the instructions that Mackin posted....couldn't be easier.

david b,


Changing to the deep stock style pan sure won't hurt at all. We sell the PML cast aluminum pans as they increase capacity by 3.5 quarts and thats alwasy good, up to a point anyway. Too much fluid will actually keep the tranny temps higher as the coolers capacity is not able to keep up if you increase the capacity past 4.0 quarts.


Going to an aluminum pan will drop temps 25-30 degrees as the cast aluminum will dissapate the heat thru the aluninum much faster than thru a stock steel type pan, plus you get a magnetic drain plug, cap screw hardware etc.


Mark @ DPPI

how much for the regular old plain jane like what you have there ratlover?

how much for the regular old plain jane like what you have there ratlover?


$50. or so at your local Allison dealer. Don't forget to get the long neck pick-up filter, screen....whatever they are calling it these days.


EDIT: Eric sells them too I believe...gmdieseltech.comEdited by: BIG DIPPER

I have them, pan, internal filter and a spin on filter for 100 bucks

Deep aluminum pans will not drop temps worth noticing. They help a little and look cool.

mike

Mike L.,


That's odd we have seen a 20+ degree drop on all the trucks and as much as 30 degrees in some cases where the customer uses his truck a little "harder" than others with the PML deep pans? What type of pans have you used and how, I am curious as to why you didn't get the temps drops we have with the PML's??


Mark @ DPPI

Mark

I am a PML dealer ( Dave Tolan, owner of PML is a personal friend and around the corner from me) as well as a MagHytech dealer. I have sold well over a hundred pans. I have a PML pan on my truck. I installed one on Diesel Techs truck as well as Nick, John Hamlin, Doug Lindsey etc. and have not seen a temperature drop in any of them including my own. I do watch temps very closely as I am about to release my cooler. I don't know what kind of testing you have done but it sure does not match the numbers I have seen.

mike

I put an aluminum pan on my truck and it runs so much cooler that the fluid is frozen if I run down the highway, The trans will quite and I have to use my trans pan heater in order to continue onhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Mark

I am a PML dealer ( Dave Tolan, owner of PML is a personal friend and
around the corner from me) as well as a MagHytech dealer. I have sold
well over a hundred pans. I have a PML pan on my truck. I installed one
on Diesel Techs truck as well as Nick, John Hamlin, Doug Lindsey etc. and
have not seen a temperature drop in any of them including my own. I do
watch temps very closely as I am about to release my cooler. I don't know
what kind of testing you have done but it sure does not match the
numbers I have seen.

mike

So, has anybody taken a new aluminum pan and cut it to put a fan/cooler
combo directly in the pan? Seems like a natural. Easy to machine, easy
to weld.

if i use the stock deep steel allison pan, could i take the drain plug and jb weld a small but powerful magnet on the plug itself? would that harm anything or mess with anything? or does that already come with a magnet in it?

Mag Hytec here. No temperature drop at all. Slower to heat up and slower to cool but I like having extra fluid to trash on.

Moss, My personal feelings on doing that, and its just a theory, but I think its a bad idea. If you want a big magnet in there, get a filter mag on the filter


The reason I THINK it may be a bad idea, the shift solonoids are basically electro-magnets, if your put in a great big magnet in there, it COULD possibly confuse things.. Again, just theory on my thinking aloudhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

Eric
Good theory. Just like big stereos, phones, cb radios or any other electronic device with the wires in the wrong place will send microwaves strong enough to make the TCM and PCM go nuts. I have had to build shields around ambulance alternators to keep the microwaves from screwing up the TCMs. Think about what is going on under the hood (big metal dome). Battery, alternator/regulator,PCM,TCM, unguarded wire harnesses living together. You can shock someone buy dragging your feet on your carpet in your home. Food for thought.

mike

fluid is constanly getting wizzed by the doughnut mag and thats easy to clean off regularly. probably dont dump your trans fluid often do you? just another though. There is also a small mag in the pan remember.

Mike L.,


Ok I believe what you have to say but why do we see a drop. I too have known David Tolin for years and we talk often, they see temp drops too?? Makes no sense to me why we and others do and you haven't.


Mark @ DPPI


dmaxalliTech,


I love it, humor to get thru the day, by the way where do I get some of those tranny pan heaters????


Mark @ DPPI

If your looking for a cooler tranny your money would be best spent installing a better cooler. Like mike says the aluminum pans look cool but who's going to lay around under there admiring their pan. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

sorry guys i have just had my truck for a year now and forgot about the magnet on the external filter, only changed once when i first got it. by the time i needed to change the fluid and all the filters, i ended up just buying a new one. ended up getting a good deal on a metal allison pan, just wondering what i could do to it before i install it.

I don't think you could find a large enough magnet (within reason) to put into the pan that would create interference with an electric solenoid.


Magnetic field strength is a function of the square of the distance from the magnet. In other words, you wouldn't have to move too far away from the magnet and you woudn't even know it is there because the field strength has dropped to zero. The depth of standard Allison pan is deep enough that a magnet (or magnets) in the pan should not create an issue.

Too much fluid will actually keep the tranny temps higher as the coolers capacity is not able to keep up if you increase the capacity past 4.0 quarts.


Mark, would you explain this statement in a little more detail? Later! Frank


It would be hard to tell if the bigger pan decreases temp without a controlled test. The extra oil will prolong the time it takes to heat it up. The pump GPM doesn't change by adding more oil so the oil takes longer to make the full loop. This should really show on the big hills in the middle of August. I think a bigger better cooler with an electric fan would help the most. The only time I worry about mine is slow speed driving. I don't know how much oil Mike gets out of it when doing a tear down but 13 when I change mine is not enough to cool this sucker. Later! FrankEdited by: Frank Blum

Ever wonder why the deep pan we're talking about is standard equipment on the Allison 1000, but GM goes with a smaller pan? I'm sure it has nothing to do with money, uh ok? I changed to transynd and the deep pan several months back. No noticeable drop in tranny temps, but like others I like more fluid to protect my investment. JJ

Mark,


Are you converting to synthetic with these pans? With the "specific heat" (capacity of fluid to hold more heat which is more efficiently released in the cooler) of synthetic increased, there is a heat transfer efficiency increase with it, along with better lubricity/shear properties.


Adding more thermal mass to the trans will definately provide the illusion of cooler temps, the gauge temp swings will occurs over a longer period of time, taking longer to heat up. Then also longer to cool down.


People build thermal mass (in the form of MASSive brick fireplaces, MASSive concrete walls, etc) into their desert homes as a measure to do exactly this, and take advantage of the 30 degree diurnal temp swings between day and night. It allows them to run the AC less during the most expensive part of the day, as the house "maintains" it's temp better. This normally requires a consideration in sizing the heating/cooling equipment, however, as thos MASSive techniques can absorb tons of thermal energy. Then it is released slowly over hours.


How does this apply to the thread? When pulling hills, if you can spread the thermal cycle out, by mass loading the tranny (much more than 4 quarts I would think), then you could take advantage of the downhill's cooling surplus to create a "steadier" gauge, and less temp swing. All this means is that if you see 230 on peaks and 200 in valleys, you might be able to make this 220 and 210. But it is not better cooling. If the allison wasn't so MASSive compared to the cooler (undersized) the swings would be worse. The allison acts like a concrete wall, and absorbs and releases thermal energy, adding fluid increases it's MASS.


The truest way to control transmission temps is to add variable cooling capacity to the cooler, so that it can reject more or less heat with changing conditions. A significantly larger cooler with a bypass thermostat is one way to do that. What that does to the rest of the truck is a different story.


I have never used one, but I do not see a ribbed aluminum pan as being a significant source of additional cooling, unless you are running around with 230 pan temps, but I don't know for sure. In any event, at those temps, I am sure it is not a satisfying solution, in which case you may decide that better temp control is necessary. Edited by: masterp2

Frank Blum,


"Too much fluid will actually keep the tranny temps higher as the coolers capacity is not able to keep up if you increase the capacity past 4.0 quarts.


Mark, would you explain this statement in a little more detail? Later! Frank"


Ok take a 5 gallon bucket of 200 degree water, run it thru a cooler till it drops to 100 degrees.


Now do the same thing with a 3 gallon bucket. The 3 gallon buck will cool much faster and provide a much more stable overall average temp for the water. NO mechanical equipment (engines or tranny's) likes to see a big variable in their operating temp, it increases wear on contact parts and causes the overall operating efficiency to be reduced, conversly if they temps aren't high enough even more wear occurs. So keeping the temp right where the equipment is designed to operate is the best.


So basically adding TOO much fluid will have the tranny in a constant too high or too low situation temps wise. Adding enough to get the extra cooling and to allow the cooler to operate at it's efficiency level is the best overall thing you can do to lengthen it's life and operation.


Hope that helps.


Mark @ DPPI

JJ's DuMax,


"Ever wonder why the deep pan we're talking about is standard equipment on the Allison 1000, but GM goes with a smaller pan? I'm sure it has nothing to do with money, uh ok? I changed to transynd and the deep pan several months back. No noticeable drop in tranny temps, but like others I like more fluid to protect my investment. JJ"


Exactly what I was saying, an an aluninum pan will do it even better as the aluminum will throw the heat off better than a stamped steel pan.


Mark @ DPPI

Numbers always help me put things in perspective. My business is in making energy solutions avialable, so I look at all the facts.


Cooling 101: Heat exchange is directly proportional to the heat exchange area dedicated to cooling.


I measured the stock pan at about 1.5 square feet of cooling area. Let's say you convert it to aluminum and size it to double this figure, now 3 ft sq, which is probably optomist. Add this to the known total fin area of an efficient cooler close to the same size as our stock cooler (one that I am using), which is 18 ft sq (measured), total is 21.


That additional 1.5 from the pan increases cooling capacity


1.5/(18+1.5)=7% additional cooling


And remember the pan holds fluid that has already been cooled, the cooler handles fluid at it's worst temp, so the pan is already at a heat exchange 2nd place for every sq ft dedicated to it.


Put another way, comparing against the stock cooler. a decision whether or not to purchase additional cooling in the form of an aftermarket pan or an aftermarket cooler, each costing $300. The stock cooler is 9 ft sq area of cooling. The pan will provide 10% additional cooling (not likely), the aftermarket cooler doubles fin area, or 100% more cooling. (The cooler would have to cost $3000 to be an equitable comparison.) So unless I can get a pan for $30, I don't see it as a good use of my money, or I would be the first to buy one here in the 145 degree desert asphalt.


Adding fluid capacity is not cooling capacity. I know people want to sell these, and I looked hard at buying one. The argument I present was so compellingly obvious, as to make it a no-brainer for me. If your objective is to make a serious stab at better trans cooling, you can't do it here. But there may be other reasons that justify it.Edited by: masterp2

Why am I having flashbacks to my junior high school days sitting between 2 brainers in science class? Someone should invent software that takes technical/scientific jargon and converts it to "Bubba language" so guys like me can understand WTF is being said. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


The hype on transynd was it would lower tranny temps signficantly (20*-30*) because it is a superior synthetic fluid. Deeper pans are supposed to cool more efficiently. So I did both with no noticeable improvement in temps. If I understand correctly the additional 4 quart capacity should have no adverse affect on the tranny. Don't want any warranty issues. JJ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

The purpose of the deep pan is not for a few more square inches of frontal cooling area. It is to hold more oil which equals better cooling. Note: That too much extra oil will be a problem in cold weather. The trans needs to be able to heat the oil up to proper operating temperature. I don't know what that is on our Allison but 140 to 160 is ideal for a lot of industrial systems. Later! Frank Edited by: Frank Blum

In my experience the only reason I would want a deep pan is to keep the sump filter submerged at all times no matter what angle. That is what the deep pan is all about. That is enough for me to have one. They look cool, but they don't cool. It is all about the extra oil protection at bad angles that can starve the trans or the motor, nothing else.

mike

Finally someone posted the facts........ bou't time. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif





Burner------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

One other thing to note is that the Allison deep pan is not an aftermarket part. Allison makes it specifically for our 1000 series transmissions so they must think there is a benefit. I believe the reason GM puts a smaller pan on our trucks is simply to get better ground clearance.

I have to believe Allison does it for maintenance/service reasons. Goes hand in mouth with Transynd recommendation and extended drain intervals.


The Allison is a HD transmission used in many applications many in the service industry.


After all the hub-bub and seeing is believing I'm not sure if running a bigger pan makes that much of a difference to us other than having more oil capacity. Cooling is the same,I wont do extended drains do to stepped up maintenance do to modifications.


Mac Edited by: Mackin

JBPlock, Look at the 1,000 series that we have, look at the pan and then check out the cooler. Now, find a bus or something that runs a 1,000 and look at the pan ...then look at the cooler. Also, the pan is good for the other two case applications. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif





Burner--------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

Burner ... good point!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

In my experience the only reason I would want a deep pan is to keep the sump filter submerged at all times no matter what angle. That is what the deep pan is all about. That is enough for me to have one. They look cool, but they don't cool. It is all about the extra oil protection at bad angles that can starve the trans or the motor, nothing else.

mike your such a girly man, you woulndt have your truck at any more of an angle then pulling in your drivewayhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

Thats going to leave a markhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif


But you never know what will happen to it when Steve or Guy borrow ithttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

Eric

I'll have you know I parked my truck on a dirt lot once http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif


Philip

Is there something I should know about my friends? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif