This is why IFS sucks.
I just turned 149K and is the last year I've ruined 2 sets of tires because of the front end,{$1250},put in new idler arm,{$90} pitman arm,{$90} idler arm mount,{$80} wheel bearing/hub,{$220} balljoints,{$50 each} ect.

So a total of close to $1900 :mad: . For that I could have put a SFA in. Anyone else think this way?
Rant over :rolleyes:.

Its tough to do a SFA swap for under $2000. Unless, you get all the parts for free, and do everything yourself. I was gonna do it all myself and still was looking at close to 3,000$ in parts.

I wish gm would at least give you an option of buying a new truck with a heavy duty solid axle like a dana 60 and bigger tires!

I like my IFS. Rides like a caddy compared to my buddies with lifted F250's.

:bawl: :HiHi:

IFS serves my uses perfectly, If I was going with a huge lift SFA would do much better in the long haul I am sure, but I would'nt trade the IFS ride for an SFA ride on a daily driver under any circumstance.

Then why dont you sell it and buy a dodge? :D

Then why dont you sell it and buy a dodge? :D

Guess what? I will be getting a Dodge with a SFA :D . Not selling the
D-Max but since I can't get a new D-Max with a solid axle or 6spd stick I'm going with a 3rd Gen CTD.

Then why dont you sell it and buy a dodge? :D

:exactly: And then you will have other things to b!tch about. After all, nothing is perfect.

IFS serves my uses perfectly, If I was going with a huge lift SFA would do much better in the long haul I am sure, but I would'nt trade the IFS ride for an SFA ride on a daily driver under any circumstance.

:exactly:

:exactly: And then you will have other things to b!tch about. After all, nothing is perfect.



:exactly:


Well it's better than waiting for an LMM/6spd that will never come :mad: .

Sounds like you are trying to stretch the ball joints to far. They wear first and cause further wear if not remedied. IFS sucks if you are driving extreme off road (lack of flex). Other than that ....................works for me and is very comforatable to drive and I don't have to deal with all the junk that is wrapped around a cummins engine IMHO.

Well it's better than waiting for an LMM/6spd that will never come :mad: .


No it's not. An Allison will do. :D

So what was the point of this thread again, maybe you should have named it I'm getting a Cummins?

That is all a dodge is good for - the Cummins. And even that has its issues.

Just needed to vent I guess :D .

GM is/was fine till 07', but after seeing what they have done now with these new trucks,I'm afraid they won't get any of my $$$$.

Just needed to vent I guess :D .

GM is/was fine till 07', but after seeing what they have done now with these new trucks,I'm afraid they won't get any of my $$$$.
people said the same thing when they changed the front end on the chev in 03 , give it time and u will get used to it :D . but have u looked at the dodge front end ? Censored

I wish gm would at least give you an option of buying a new truck with a heavy duty solid axle like a dana 60 and bigger tires!
If GM offered a solid axle I would still buy the ifs. Our trucks that had solid axles (dana 60s) have cost about 3000 times as much as our ifs trucks. It would seem like a solid axle would hold up better but somehow it just doesnt work that way for us in the real world. Our chevys have yet to have a single part replaced in the front ends. Three dodges and three solid axle rebuilds every 15000 to 20000 miles. Solid axles pretty much suck from our expirience. IFS takes hundreds of thousands of miles of the same use and never gets lose.:eek:

people said the same thing when they changed the front end on the chev in 03 , give it time and u will get used to it :D . but have u looked at the dodge front end ? Censored

Frontend will get covered with a RanchHand :D .

Frontend will get covered with a RanchHand :D .


Yeah that bumper will match the rest of the truck:D

whys everybody got to dog the chevy ifs ????


dude if you dont like it...then sell the damn thing and get your frickin dodge with a big ol 6 spd and be happy....if not replace the damn parts and drive your dmax for another 100+ thousand miles:D



my rants over:rolleyes:

Would the cognito Idler arm kit fix all these parts wearing out? Here is a link to Norcal where they talk about it
http://norcaltruck.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=242

Better yet here is the text (hope its not too long):
Whether your truck is stock height or lifted and running oversized tires, Pitman and Idler arms have always been a problem on the steering systems of the GM and FORD vehicles. The Pitman and Idler arm Support kit by Cognito Motorsports fixes a wear problem that is present on the factory and aftermarket steering system. Aftermarket companies have come out with heavier duty pitman and idler arms that fail the same way that the factory parts do. The design created by Cognito Motorsports solves the problem in an innovative way that no one else has been able to create before. This design works so well that we were able to establish a PATENT PENDING.

The problem when not using the Cognito Motorsports Pitman and Idler Arm Support kit:
If you are not familiar with how the GM steering system works, here is a quick lesson. The pitman arm is connected to the output shaft of the steering gear box. When you turn the steering wheel of your vehicle, the motion is directed to the steering gear box which then rotates the pitman arm. The pitman arm has a stud protruding from the end of it where the center link connects, also called the drag link. To help control steering motion, the center link is connected to an idler arm on the passenger side of the vehicle. The idler arm is bolted to the frame and swings in the same arc as the pitman arm, and is fastened to the center link the same way the pitman arm is. The two mounting points for the center link give it support in the motion left and right relative to the vehicle, but there is not enough support in the direction of forward to backward relative to the vehicle. This lack of support is what causes the joints inside of the pitman and idler arms to wear out, which provide the pivot and connection point for the center link. The larger the tire on the vehicle, the faster these joints wear out. Aftermarket companies have come out with beefed up pitman and idler arms, but still have the same premature wear issue in the same joint.

What happens if you are not using the Cognito Motorsports solution?
The front alignment toe settings can not be held because of the slop in the pitman and idler arms allowing the center link to move forward and backward. No control over the toe setting means that your front tires will experience irregular and premature wear. When the center link swings toward the back of the truck, it is also swinging up in an arc. The center link swinging up increases the tie rod angle and can cause tie rod breakage. Most tie rod problems actual originate from pitman and idler arm problems.

The Cognito Motorsports Solution:
The Mechanical Engineer at Cognito Motorsports has come up with a non traditional design to fix this problem, and it works GREAT! The support kit can be installed on pitman and idler arms showing a lot of wear, and actually revive them! If the worn parts have approximately 40,000 miles or less on them with a close to stock size tire, they probably will not have to be changed. If the worn parts have approximately 20,000 miles or less on them with larger than 33” tires, they probably will not have to be changed. If the parts have more miles than that on them, it is recommended to replace the pitman and idler arms with factory units and add the Cognito Motorsports Pitman and Idler Arm Support Kit. This innovative design is so unique that it has a utility patent pending status right now. The support system works by double capturing the studs that protrude from the pitman and idler arms which the center link connects to. At the same time it still allows the studs to pivot on their own axis which is needed when the steering system is turning. This Cognito Motorsports system provides the support needed to prevent the center link from rocking forward and backward in the vehicle.

$1900 doesn't sound too bad for a truck with 149K on it. Do you rotate your tires and do you think you would not have spent any money on your SFA truck, they wear tires too. I had a SFA Ford and that thing wore tires like you wouldn't beleive.

I have put in well more than $2000-$3000 in replacement front end parts and my truck has 23000 miles. I still like the IFS system most of the time when I'm driving on the road and not replacing parts.

I learned the hard way that there are some cardinal rules to IFS.....

1) Choose the right lift/suspension and steering parts. If you don't, geometry and the quality of parts will suffer and will exagerate IFS problems.

2) Take it easy in 4. If you try to play like superman, chances are you are going to need to replace things in the front end at that time or shortly thereafter. The minute you get wheel hop, you have broken something. 4 wheel boosted launches on IFS lifted trucks are in general a bad idea.

3) Take is slow off road. It will make your trip home a lot easier.

4) If you go big, expect that parts will wear out much faster. 40"s are great, but are going top blast through ball joints, wheel bearings and other wear components due to the 2x-3x additional rolling weight.

If you follow these rules, the maintenance of your IFS truck will be the same as an SFA truck, if not better.

Yeah that bumper will match the rest of the truck:D

whys everybody got to dog the chevy ifs ????


dude if you dont like it...then sell the damn thing and get your frickin dodge with a big ol 6 spd and be happy....if not replace the damn parts and drive your dmax for another 100+ thousand miles:D



my rants over:rolleyes:

That's the problem,I love the truck but it needs a better front end.

Preston: Thanks,That may help me out

Ford SFA wheel bearings run $500 each for a total of 2 bearings on the front. $1000 already just after bearings. Steering components on the SFA wear out as well. Strength is where the SFA beats the IFS.

Ford SFA wheel bearings run $500 each for a total of 2 bearings on the front. $1000 already just after bearings. Steering components on the SFA wear out as well. Strength is where the SFA beats the IFS.

:rotflmao: Yeah, for the 99'+ Superduty D50 axle. The 78'/79' D60's that are used to swap in these truck are just plain old Timken bearings :) . About $25-$35. I sell axles so I deal with them a lot :cool: . Just got done rebuilding a GM one. All new kingpin parts,seals and new brakes cost me $220.

I'm getting ready to have the idler and pitman arms swapped out and both front hubs. 56Kmiles. I'm adding the idler and pitman supports as well.

The ride is nice but I'd rather have a truck ride than a cadilac ride if it's going to cost me this much $ every 50Kmiles or so.

its all on how you maintain and use your truck....ive got about 10 friends with cummins/dodges....ranging from years 1997-2005 and i only know 1 of them that hasnt rebuilt the front end...some more than once..
thats rotors,brakes,ball joints,drag links,wheel bearings, and front axle shaft u joints. the hole 9 yards

one of them has a 03 with 54,000 miles and the front end was toast

I agree with 01' Duramax 6 speed, we have broken two have axles, and one was $666 :mad:

Ferd bearings list at $690each SFA's suffer from the "death wobble" at times, that is the front wheels shaking violently back and forth

wow bros dodge has had ball joints put like 5 times in a 100k miles

ive had 2 ifs trucks one over 105k one 53k ive changed jack on them besides brakes

Ferd bearings list at $690each SFA's suffer from the "death wobble" at times, that is the front wheels shaking violently back and forth

Like I said those are 99'+ unit bearings.

Like I said those are 99'+ unit bearings.

And just pointing out that just because it is a SFA doesn't mean it is problem free. I understand what you are saying and you are correct, but going to SFA generically doesn't solve all problems across the board.

like i said his dodge eats ball joint like candy and its never off road

not bashing dodges i like em too

Like I said those are 99'+ unit bearings.

Is the reason why they are so expensive because of the speed sensors?

Gm's have speed sensors in them also

If the front hubs at least had serviceable wheel bearings I'd feel a little bit better.

Gm's have speed sensors in them also

Yeah, I forgot to add that to my post. I don't think any new vehicle does not have speed sensors in the hub. I guess that is why they are so bloody expensive.

If the front hubs at least had serviceable wheel bearings I'd feel a little bit better.

Me too. That's may main rant. None of this stuff is servicable :mad: .

Me too. That's may main rant. None of this stuff is servicable :mad: .

The world of disposable vehicles. Marketing tells you the Heavy Duty Diesel engine and Allison Transmission lasts for a long long time but they fail to tell you the supporting parts don't last worth a damn.

Got my new ones today. Hopefully I'll get them in soon.

Me too. That's may main rant. None of this stuff is servicable :mad: .

Dodge unit bearings can be ditched in favour of servicable manual locking hubs. I would just run it until they needed there first service then go to the manual hubs. Don't think they're cheap but at least you would have servicable units after plus you should gain a few mpg by not turning the front axle all the time.

Dodge unit bearings can be ditched in favour of servicable manual locking hubs. I would just run it until they needed there first service then go to the manual hubs. Don't think they're cheap but at least you would have servicable units after plus you should gain a few mpg by not turning the front axle all the time.

:D DynaTrac $1795 :eek: .

You should see the looks I get from customers when I give them a quote on installing new hub assemblies on HD Dodges, none of them are good.

This is why IFS sucks.
I just turned 149K and is the last year I've ruined 2 sets of tires because of the front end,{$1250},put in new idler arm,{$90} pitman arm,{$90} idler arm mount,{$80} wheel bearing/hub,{$220} balljoints,{$50 each} ect.

So a total of close to $1900 :mad: . For that I could have put a SFA in. Anyone else think this way?
Rant over :rolleyes:.

Maybe getting back on the topic will salvage this thread from becoming another pointless discussion about IFS vs. SFA.

When this kind of tire wear has happened to me in the past I find that the shocks are the first, best place to look. They're a lot less expensive than replacing all the front end parts for what usually (and apparently in this case too) turns out to be no good reason at all. When the shocks go bad and fail to keep consistent contact with the road surface, you end up with funky tire wear very fast -- it can ruin a set of tires in no time.

:D DynaTrac $1795 :eek: .

That's a loooong way from cheap. Good thing you should only need to do it once. What are the unit bearings worth. I seem to recall them being quite costly aswell.

Yeah this thread got side tracked a little.....

For comparison,
My 93 S-10 reg cab short box IFS 32" Tires GVW 4200
and a friends 87 1500 reg cab short box SFA 33" tires, GVW 4500.

Pretty close, we went off road together for about 2 years. Where I went he went and vise versa. Comparing the money I spent about 25% more then him. Comparing the time he spent 2X more than me. And it was mostly maintenance. Every time I looked he was greasing, tightening, or replacing something. So we figured it was almost a wash. If we were paying someone to do the work than the IFS would have been cheaper. And 8 times out of 10 I could go through more mud then him. The IFS truck is designed like a sled. The front diff on the SFA hangs up easy. I know we can argue many other points for the SFA. Like someone else said the flex is very poor with the IFS.

When it came to driving on the road and going on trips my truck (IFS) was by far the best vehicle. It drove much smoother. The MPG was about the same.

As for the tire wear. Again I would say the IFS is better. If it is aligned properly, the tire wear is much better. The SFA does not have enough adjustment to align is exactly right.

So with all that said…..I would stay with the IFS. If you want a vehicle strictly for Off-road than I would think about a SFA. But it depends on what type of off-roading your plan on doing.

Strength wise, sure the SFA might be stronger. But I haven’t had any problems.

Just my opinions,

Actually comparing the IFS in our plow trucks to the SFA stuff.....IFS supprisingly seems to cost less $. even on the trucks we have bought new and know the history on.....the front ends of the 2000 and 2005 f 550 seems to eat parts.

For wheeling IFS realy seems to suck....but for most applications IFS isnt as weak as people say IMO.