I saw an article in the Flint, MI Flint Journal that GM may be selling the GM med duty truck line to International. Look up www.mlive.com (http://www.mlive.com) and go to the Flint journal.
Todd

I saw an article in the Flint, MI Flint Journal that GM may be selling the GM med duty truck line to International. Look up www.mlive.com (http://www.mlive.com) and go to the Flint journal.
Todd

i wouldnt put it past GM to sell it off but I also wouldnt buy or sell anything based on what the Flint urinal says.

i wouldnt put it past GM to sell it off but I also wouldnt buy or sell anything based on what the Flint urinal says.
true how true

Regardless of the veracity of the article...International's build quality is lacking. I have driven their MD Chassis under Ambulances...the interior definately does not last. Among other little bugs that...well bug me.

Regardless of the veracity of the article...International's build quality is lacking. I have driven their MD Chassis under Ambulances...the interior definately does not last. Among other little bugs that...well bug me.

The Freightliner M2 is plagued with the same problems as their FL60 was. Cheap components and poor build quality. We have 3 Wheeled Coach Firemedics on the M2 and all have poor service records.

Scott

Does not shock me, they are desperate to turn things around. They should dump the current line, then create a 4500/5500 type truck based on the Silverado like Ford and Dodge have.

Does not shock me, they are desperate to turn things around. They should dump the current line, then create a 4500/5500 type truck based on the Silverado like Ford and Dodge have.
:exactly:That would be my next truck!

Where will we get the current trucks serviced?

Where will we get the current trucks serviced?

I would think gm would have to cover the warranty and supply parts for all the current trucks for x amount of time. Unless as part of the sale International takes on the liability of warranties.

I agree, freight shakers and intl are pretty cheap cab wise, the dt466 and allisonor eaton trans are pretty darn good, but they are cheap, (compareativly) which lets face it the bean counter fleet managers love it. I agree, if gm made a "small" 4500 like the 450's itd sell pretty good,.

I heard about this sometime ago. The story I heard was that GM wants to continue to offer the big commercial trucks, but they are not so sure they want to continue to manufacture them. What is strange about International is that they currently build the Ford F-650 and 750 for Ford! Also, GM currently assembles many trucks for Isuzu. BTW- Isuzu just bought a large piece of land in the mid-west for an assembly plant.......
In any event, I think the Topkick and Kodiak will be still be around.

The Freightliner M2 is plagued with the same problems as their FL60 was. Cheap components and poor build quality. We have 3 Wheeled Coach Firemedics on the M2 and all have poor service records.

Scott


You're talking about a FreightShaker not an International.:o:

I agree, freight shakers and intl are pretty cheap cab wise, the dt466 and allisonor eaton trans are pretty darn good, but they are cheap, (compareativly) which lets face it the bean counter fleet managers love it. I agree, if gm made a "small" 4500 like the 450's itd sell pretty good,.

I would argue that the M2 Freightshaker cab is by far the best MD cab set up on the market!!

I would argue that the M2 Freightshaker cab is by far the best MD cab set up on the market!!

By "set up" what do you mean? Ergonomically they are better than the FL60, quality wise only marginally better.

Scott

When you drive a Sportchassis M2 there is no question that their suspension system, design, and general quality far out shine any other manufacturer's MD.

When you drive a Sportchassis M2 there is no question that their suspension system, design, and general quality far out shine any other manufacturer's MD.

The RV world must be different than the fire rescue world, we have 3 now and they have, as bad, if not worse service histories as the FL60's we have. All told we have had 6 FL60 and 3 M2's
I do think the Mercedes engine is an improvement over the Cummins "B" series we had. 5 of the FL60 had the Cummins and 2 had catastrophic failures before 75K.

Scott

Freightliners don't last. I work on them, and for the most part, they are junk. They do drive nice though.

thats FUNNY frieghtliners dont last. you really dont know much about trucks or maybe you dont know the international has the worst dependability and more engine issues than you can imagine. how do i know this , put it this way i have 118 frieghtliners mixed tractors and straights and then i have 67 corn binders.... they are in the shop 3 times the amount of the shakers. yes the m2 has has issues at the start but have been good since. IHC just cant get there act together. i guess the upside for IHC they were able to achive the flame thrower option for ford..:)

I think most mediums are built down to a price point. Since everything that we do is from the low bidder we usually get what we pay for. Government never looks at the intangibles like service problems or downtime. The people with cornbinders around us have similar problems.

Scott

We build fire rescue bodies and they are put on the IH or Freight liner chassis for the medium size line. For the heavier ones we use Spartan chassis and we have not had many problems with them either.
When you look at them there are so many things any more that can go wrong with the technology that goes into them.

We build fire rescue bodies and they are put on the IH or Freight liner chassis for the medium size line. For the heavier ones we use Spartan chassis and we have not had many problems with them either.
When you look at them there are so many things any more that can go wrong with the technology that goes into them.

I met some of the Spartan guys at a training last year, nice bunch of people. I dont have any experience with their chassis though. We have Sutphen, Pierce and E-one on our pumpers.

Scott

I have always sworn by IH. Right now we have a small oil truck fleet of 3 4400's a 2002, 2003 and a 2007. All have been decent trucks with a few little problems. All in all though, they have held up well. Around my area IH controls the med duty segment. Id say Peterbuilt sells quite a few around here also. Freightliner doesnt seem to be as popular though. The only good thing IH has going for it is that the truck has their own motor. The 466 is better than the Mercedes, small Cat or Cummins by far...

How many of the MD's can be had in 4x4 other than GM,Furd,and now Dodge?

thats FUNNY frieghtliners dont last. you really dont know much about trucks or maybe you dont know the international has the worst dependability and more engine issues than you can imagine. how do i know this , put it this way i have 118 frieghtliners mixed tractors and straights and then i have 67 corn binders.... they are in the shop 3 times the amount of the shakers. yes the m2 has has issues at the start but have been good since. IHC just cant get there act together. i guess the upside for IHC they were able to achive the flame thrower option for ford..:)


ASE certifed Master Heavy Truck Tech., 25 years in the business, work for one of the largest utility fleets on the west coast as a shop foreman. No, I guess I don't know much about trucks.... We buy all makes, and have a lot of trouble with the 'Shakers. I won't could engine trouble against them (most of ours have Cummins) because Fruitliner didn't build the engine. Many of out problems are electrical and cab hardware. As for International, we have not bought any for a number of years. But, their older mediums were great with the mechanical DT-466's. Now, go drive a Peterbilt or an older Mack if you want to experience a good truck. I even had an old GMC Brigadier that is still in service.

ASE certifed Master Heavy Truck Tech., 25 years in the business, work for one of the largest utility fleets on the west coast as a shop foreman. No, I guess I don't know much about trucks.... We buy all makes, and have a lot of trouble with the 'Shakers. I won't could engine trouble against them (most of ours have Cummins) because Fruitliner didn't build the engine. Many of out problems are electrical and cab hardware. As for International, we have not bought any for a number of years. But, their older mediums were great with the mechanical DT-466's. Now, go drive a Peterbilt or an older Mack if you want to experience a good truck. I even had an old GMC Brigadier that is still in service.


Thats funny. You gotta be careful calling somebody out on a board like this, there are some VERY knowledgable people here. This post is a good example.

I know someone in Bradford Pennsylvania who bought a brand new M2 four wheel drive with a hauler bed. He said it was the second one built with four wheel drive. He had a Ford 550 to haul his horse trailer but it just couldn't do the job. If you are going to build a medium duty truck, you don't build one like Ford does. And that's why GM builds the 4500 and 5500. Ford just builds a glorified one ton and calls it a 450 and 550.

I know someone in Bradford Pennsylvania who bought a brand new M2 four wheel drive with a hauler bed. He said it was the second one built with four wheel drive. He had a Ford 550 to haul his horse trailer but it just couldn't do the job. If you are going to build a medium duty truck, you don't build one like Ford does. And that's why GM builds the 4500 and 5500. Ford just builds a glorified one ton and calls it a 450 and 550.

the shakers had made quite a splash in the market a few years ago here in Oregon anyway because there were made here. turns out the company was guaranteeing trade in values which got the leasing companies to buy herds of them, and the market died, and Frightliner got a new CEO, and now they have closed the Portland FActory (and are making only Western Stars here--- and even that is doubtful for more than this year as they are mostly going for export.

Freightliner is a native of Portland, OR---started here after WWII by Consolidated freightways who wanted a Cabover truck of their design, and then spun off. the europeans got it now and it looks like a nameplate with no future.

While Binder has struggled in the class 8 market (they were slow to convert to diesel--but as long as big highway trucks were gassers they were strong in the market), but they have done well in the mediums,--I would say they dominate it yet, (other than being beat up by the shakers a few years back--but IH is still in business.

We got our first binder over 50 years ago and have generally had them since and most weren't new when we got them.
http://www.vannattabros.com/1973pics/d35a.jpg


We got this 1938 model about 4th hand in 1955 and used it for 10 years.

I would argue that the M2 Freightshaker cab is by far the best MD cab set up on the market!!
Nothing like the petes.

I am a truck mechanic in the midwest, we see probably 2 times as many IH's as FTL's. We see a more problems with the FTL's as far as interior and engine problems-mainly vp44's. We have also been servicing a ton of newer IH rental trucks and have had very few problems with them.

I have been burned with the only 2 Internationals I have owned, especially my 2nd, '99 4700. I bought it at the first of January and have literally spent more on repairs than I have on truck payments. 2 high pressure oil pumps(including 1 about 12 hours after I bought it), massive oil leak behind the cpu, turn signal switch, fan clutch, you get the idea. Plus it only runs about 70mph, gets 7mpg, and won't get out of its own way. As soon as I update my contracts with the Postal Service, the IHC's are gone and there will never be another in my fleet again. I kinda liked the Frieght's but the salesman kept telling me that I didn't want one spec'd the way I wanted, he kept telling me that he knew how to spec them "right". He looks at his data sheet, but I just drive them over 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, so I don't know anything. Plus he lied to my wife and I caught it. The Kenworths were sweet and the ones already sitting on the lots were a grand cheaper then the Frieght's and all were spec'd very similar! Seems like a no-brainer to me when I get ready to buy next time.

I have always sworn by IH. Right now we have a small oil truck fleet of 3 4400's a 2002, 2003 and a 2007. All have been decent trucks with a few little problems. All in all though, they have held up well. Around my area IH controls the med duty segment. Id say Peterbuilt sells quite a few around here also. Freightliner doesnt seem to be as popular though. The only good thing IH has going for it is that the truck has their own motor. The 466 is better than the Mercedes, small Cat or Cummins by far...

You may get by saying that about Mercedes from the 80's... but this new Mercedes is on hell of an animal. There are very few diesel engines in the MD class that I would even begin to believe were worth comparing.:)

Nothing like the petes.

Okay... I have not driven the Pete MD... However, I would agree with you on the overtheroad trucks!!;)

the shakers had made quite a splash in the market a few years ago here in Oregon anyway because there were made here. turns out the company was guaranteeing trade in values which got the leasing companies to buy herds of them, and the market died, and Frightliner got a new CEO, and now they have closed the Portland FActory (and are making only Western Stars here--- and even that is doubtful for more than this year as they are mostly going for export.

Freightliner is a native of Portland, OR---started here after WWII by Consolidated freightways who wanted a Cabover truck of their design, and then spun off. the europeans got it now and it looks like a nameplate with no future.

While Binder has struggled in the class 8 market (they were slow to convert to diesel--but as long as big highway trucks were gassers they were strong in the market), but they have done well in the mediums,--I would say they dominate it yet, (other than being beat up by the shakers a few years back--but IH is still in business.

We got our first binder over 50 years ago and have generally had them since and most weren't new when we got them.

http://www.vannattabros.com/1973pics/d35a.jpg (http://www.vannattabros.com/1973pics/d35a.jpg)
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



We got this 1938 model about 4th hand in 1955 and used it for 10 years.

GREAT PICTURE!!

I don't think the hood being permanently removed takes away from your post at all.

GREAT PICTURE!!

I don't think the hood being permanently removed takes away from your post at all.

That photo was taken in about 1962. The hood was still around, it was just off the for summer. that cab got unbearablely hot in the summer as heat from the engine percolated up through the floor boards which had many holes and through the firewall which wasn't insulated

IN the era we used this truck, it was still standard practice for truck drivers to set the hand throttle on long hills and get out on the running board and steer from there in the summer 'cause it was cooler....

I grew up assuming that a 'running board' was the place the driver went
to 'run the truck' when being in the cab was inhospitable.

That's funny!1:D

I grew up on a grain farm in Western Kansas and had the pleasure of running around in a couple of the mid 30's model wheat trucks, and you are not kidding about the heat in the cab. :D I thought it was funny how we were all talking about the reliability of Freightliners and Internationals and we got a picture of a truck that had the hood permanently removed.:D

It really is a great picture!!

That's funny!1:D

I grew up on a grain farm in Western Kansas and had the pleasure of running around in a couple of the mid 30's model wheat trucks, and you are not kidding about the heat in the cab. :D I thought it was funny how we were all talking about the reliability of Freightliners and Internationals and we got a picture of a truck that had the hood permanently removed.:D

It really is a great picture!!

We had quite a few cattle at the time, but little hay land so we imported hay from the lowlands along the Columbia River. (25 miles away), though
judging where we were storeing this--- I believe you are looking at a load of 'bent grass straw'. At that time some farmers on the swamp land had
a bent grass seed growing operation, some of which they combined and
the rest of which they cut and transported to threshing machines with buck rakes. IT was my only experience in life being around traditional thrashing machines. I think one year we rented them our John Deere Model R because it had a strong 50 hp on the belt pully and would never choke down.... As by then finding tractors with belt pullies on them
was getting harder.....

GM has been mulling this over for over a year that I'm aware of. Piece by piece, over the past 25 years, GM has been getting rid of business right and left. They often claim they weren't profitable, but with the exception of Delphi, the people who took them over seem to be doing ok. Sad to say the least.

GM has been mulling this over for over a year that I'm aware of. Piece by piece, over the past 25 years, GM has been getting rid of business right and left. They often claim they weren't profitable, but with the exception of Delphi, the people who took them over seem to be doing ok. Sad to say the least.

Detroit Diesel engines hasn't turned into much. In the heyday of 2cycle DD's they were everywhere and split the market with Cummins

Now there are 3 DD engines which are not under every hood.