For you tranny gurus,


I recently had my TF-999 rebuilt for my 1991 Jeep Wrangler with the 4.0 in-line six. The torque converter went out and apparently did a number on the rest of the transmission. I pulled the tranny and took it to the shop and the tech told me he had to go to extraordinary measures to pull the converter. Anyway...


I had about 160,000 miles on it and had always used the ATF +3 or type 7176 fluid in it. Now, the rebuilder is telling me to use Dextron III--"that's what they use on all of them"--he says.


I felt like I was putting words in his mouth as I discussed this change...he did not speak the best English, but I was told that he did good work. I suggested that perhaps the new clutch material (from the rebuild) was now compatible with the Dextron III and got the nod from him, but no further explanation. Really he seemed like a good guy and I'm confident in his work...just having a communication problem.


So, I stopped at a local dealership and talked to one of their techs. This guy was either drunk, off his meds, or simply strange. Every time I questioned him his eyes would roll in the back of his head and he would almost convulse slightly before responding.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley29.gif HE was not sure what my tranny used when new and could not even come to grips with the distinctions between ATF+3 and Dextron III. He finally settled on that I should use the Dextron as that is what all of them are using now.


NEXT, I talk to another tech at yet another dealer and at first he indicates that yeah I should use the Dextron, then he stated that I should do whatever I feel is right (no kidding, like what...use the Force or something) and then he altogether flip-flopped in a very John Kerryish manner and said go with what the manual says, which it indeed says use the ATF+3/7176. He did seem sober and articulate and even indicated that perhaps the new clutches were compatible with the Dextron III. Again very Kerryish....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley13.gif


So I really have no confidence in what any of these guys had to say. I would suspect that a rebuild would use "superior" clutch material and that the clutches and seals might be universal, meaning that they were compatible with the Dextron III and no longer required the ATF+3. Dextron III is by far more widely available--this would make even more sense if all rebuilds used universal materials thus phasing out the requirements for ATF+3.


I know Chrysler transmissions that required the ATF+3 in the past would slip and suffer from shudder if they had anything other than the ATF+3.


The rebuild shop gave me a one-year/12000 mile warranty, but I don't see it as being as simple as just putting in what they tell me only to have it go out and leave me stranded or make me go through pulling it again. I want to put the right stuff in. I've considered going with a universal synthetic, but that is kind of pricey too.


Should I use the Dextron or the ATF+3?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley5.gif

I think Mike L should see this........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

in my experience, the Mopar trans require 7176 fluid. There are some fluids that are compatible with it and meet its specs. I know that Schaeffers just released a atf that met Dex III specs as well as Mercon and +3.


I would stick with the +3 stuff if it were mine...

Amsoil Univ. Syn. ATF meets or exceeds the requirements of all the fluids you have mentioned and quite a few that you haven't mentioned, including +4, Honda, and just about anything short of Transynd (for which they sell Torq- Drive).


I've used it/sold it for a number of years and it has been a real godsend for me and quite a few customers, especially as relates to TC clutch lockup shudders which have been the bane of many trans. Pricey? yes, but once installed you are just about bullet proof for heat degradation problems as it is more than 3 times as resistant to heat breahdown than DexIII.


Greg Landuyt is the forum sponsoring vendor for Amsoil and I suggest him, for, as much as I would like your business, as a sponsoring vendor, the sale should be his.

T-Rex


You will be fine with a big name Dex 3. There are differences in Dex 3 fluids from different manufacturers. I am presently using Havoline which has been pretty good. I had big problems with Citgo, mainly sticky valves and premature discoloration. I have redone quite a few transmissions for my customers that drive a lot of miles and after 70'000 or more miles I feel the fluid I am using is doing its job well. As far as universal fluids; In my experience they do no better than Dex 3. They do not work in Jaguars, Mecedes, Honda and others that require special fluid. I have tried it in my shop and had to drain the units and refill with designated fluid to make them work. The +3 fluid was developed mainly for the converter clutch in the 999 ( TF 6) transmission. Back in the late 70's and early 80's, transmission shops could not stop converter clutch shudder after rebuild because none of us used +3 fluid. The fix back then was to block the converter valve and inhibit lock up. The material in converter clutches has improved quite a bit and it works just fine with Dex 3 in your 999. Hope this helps.


mike

Thanks to everyone for their response.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif


So I guess that whatever I use...if there is a deficiency in the fluid it will show up in poor tranny/torque converter performance---since no one is mentioning premature seal failure, it appears not to be a great concern. I think it over. Hopefully my TC will be here early next week.

T-Rex


There will be no seal failure because of the fluid. The only seal failure that I have seen is because of the short lip on the direct clutch drum. ( 3rd and reverse) We in the trans business have been sold a bogus short lip design on aforementioned clutch. I never bought into this bs. Chrysler did. Sorry to say customers payed the tab on that fu. I always stocked earlier long seal and installed it in every o/h.


mike