well not yet. but what is the risk of running low sulfur diesel (lsd) 500ppm? i have been filling up at 2 different stations and noticed on tuesday they both put stickers on the pump warning that they still have lsd and it is not suitable for 2007+ trucks. . . i probably put 3 tanks that i can remember.

has anyone else noticed it on their pumps?

the pump i filled at today had a sticker for ulsd and approved for 2007+ also newly placed within the last week.
i can get a picture of the stickesr if anyone cares to see them.


what do you guys think i didn't notice any difference in any engine operation, just wondering if there could be a long term side effect? ? ?

well not yet. but what is the risk of running low sulfur diesel (lsd) 500ppm? i have been filling up at 2 different stations and noticed on tuesday they both put stickers on the pump warning that they still have lsd and it is not suitable for 2007+ trucks. . . i probably put 3 tanks that i can remember.

has anyone else noticed it on their pumps?

the pump i filled at today had a sticker for ulsd and approved for 2007+ also newly placed within the last week.
i can get a picture of the stickesr if anyone cares to see them.


what do you guys think i didn't notice any difference in any engine operation, just wondering if there could be a long term side effect? ? ?


DON'T DO IT!!! It can cause all sorts of problems! Not in the long-haul but right away.

its already been done about 3 tanks but i'm going else where now that they put the stickers out. at the time i pumped there was neither sticker.

Supprised they still had some. The EPA stepped in and wanted lower NO and particulate matter emmissions, hence the lower sulfur content.
The 07 have high efficency CATS and the older fuel may mess them up. Can reduce durablity and efficiency of the engine. Warranites can be voided and it is ILLEGAL. So sssshhhhh:)
Oh ya, due to lower lubricity, an addivtive is adviseable.

well not yet. but what is the risk of running low sulfur diesel (lsd) 500ppm? i have been filling up at 2 different stations and noticed on tuesday they both put stickers on the pump warning that they still have lsd and it is not suitable for 2007+ trucks. . . i probably put 3 tanks that i can remember.

has anyone else noticed it on their pumps?

the pump i filled at today had a sticker for ulsd and approved for 2007+ also newly placed within the last week.
i can get a picture of the stickesr if anyone cares to see them.


what do you guys think i didn't notice any difference in any engine operation, just wondering if there could be a long term side effect? ? ?

Odds are that it was ULSD but the station had not been able to get the tanks and pumps passed to the new requirment. I doubt you did much if any damage if that is the case.

I would doubt that any station these days are NOT carrying ULSD...I bet they havent updated their new stickers yet.

Supprised they still had some. The EPA stepped in and wanted lower NO and particulate matter emmissions, hence the lower sulfur content.
The 07 have high efficency CATS and the older fuel may mess them up. Can reduce durablity and efficiency of the engine. Warranites can be voided and it is ILLEGAL. So sssshhhhh:)
Oh ya, due to lower lubricity, an addivtive is adviseable.
EPA lowered sulfur content of diesel fuel to reduce the SOx components of diesel exhaust (sulfur dioxide, sulfuric and sulfurous acid, etc.). ULSD does not lower the Nox components which are nitrogen compounds. I'm pretty sure the sulfur content of fuels doesn't effect particulates, but I could be wrong.

I suspect the stations are just playing it safe by leaving the LSD stickers on the pumps as the fuel gradually dilutes to ULSD. The penalty for selling LSD labeled as ULSD (even accidentally) is $35,000 per day. Having said that, except in California it IS STILL LEGAL to sell LSD as an on-road fuel another few years, just not labeled as ULSD. The law says that a high percentage of on-road diesel fuel refined (95% ?) has to be ULSD, but it is ok to refine, ship and sell the remaining small percentge as LSD. So you CANNOT assume that a pump labeled LSD is simply mislabeled ULSD.

here's the deal the station is brand new, just opened the second week of february. on my way home from work tuesday i noticed half the pumps had stickers while the others had none. i went back later in the evening and all the pumps had the stickers.


http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3584/dieselstickers001ox9.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dieselstickers001ox9.jpg)
[img=http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3584/dieselstickers001ox9.th.jpg] (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dieselstickers001ox9.jpg)

regulations from chevrons website. . . the station that had the lsd was a Valero station, but i am now buying from EXXON.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ulsd.shtml#A2

regulations from chevrons website. . . the station that had the lsd was a Valero station, but i am now buying from EXXON.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ulsd.shtml#A2

That's the same site that talks about the NO levels...#5

That's the same site that talks about the NO levels...#5
That Chevron site does not say that ULSD reduces NOx and particulates, but that it allows the installation of more advanced emission control devices [that do]. So you are right - ULSD is related to reduction of NOx and particulates, but if you use it in older trucks the NOx and particlate levels are not lowered. The EPA wanted to reduce NOx but they couldnt do it until the sulfur was out of the fuel. I'm getting worried I'm starting to sound like a lawyer :) ULSD does, however, directly lower SOx emissions in all vehicles.

However, I know without a doubt that they have over-simplified the switchover dates. It is only the vast majority of diesel that has to be ULSD on those dates, not all. I'll find the government website that detailed all the due dates for the ULSD switchover for the next ten years and post it. The regulations are much more complex than that Chevron info page lets on.

The EPA can ^%$# in one hand and want in the other on emissions as far as I'm concerned. They can take the sulfer out for emissions and I'll put it back in. They can make GM put a catalytic converter on my truck and I'll take it off. And guess what, there is NO means of enforcement of any of this where I live, and if there was I'd find a way around it.

Most of the comments I have read here indicate that LSD is preferred for your motor. If I had access to it, I'd run it. Hell, If I had access to it, I'd run the red stuff and screw the government on the taxes.

A bit of a rebel I guess, Oh Well

dane

The EPA can ^%$# in one hand and want in the other on emissions as far as I'm concerned. They can take the sulfer out for emissions and I'll put it back in. They can make GM put a catalytic converter on my truck and I'll take it off. And guess what, there is NO means of enforcement of any of this where I live, and if there was I'd find a way around it.

Most of the comments I have read here indicate that LSD is preferred for your motor. If I had access to it, I'd run it. Hell, If I had access to it, I'd run the red stuff and screw the government on the taxes.

A bit of a rebel I guess, Oh Well

dane
How wonderful for you. Personally, I like clean air. Whether you like it or not, it is those improved emission control devices that will allow diesel to be used in many more types of vehicles and lower our country's dependency on foreign (read mideast) oil.

Rather than being a bad thing, ULSD improves the air quality, allows diesel-powered cars to become more mainstream, lowers our use of imported oil since diesels get better mileage than gassers and can even use alternative fuels such as biodiesel and VO, AND increases our national security. ULSD was probably one of the smartest things the government has ever done.

How wonderful for you. Personally, I like clean air. Whether you like it or not, it is those improved emission control devices that will allow diesel to be used in many more types of vehicles and lower our country's dependency on foreign (read mideast) oil.

Rather than being a bad thing, ULSD improves the air quality, allows diesel-powered cars to become more mainstream, lowers our use of imported oil since diesels get better mileage than gassers and can even use alternative fuels such as biodiesel and VO, AND increases our national security. ULSD was probably one of the smartest things the government has ever done.

Understand Dane's point. Good for the environment and SUCKS for the 40K+ truck that you have invested in. However, just wanted to mention that LSD diesel is still available here (Arkansas) and SEVERAL other states. It is the superior fuel for 07 classic and below, no doubt! ULSD isn't mandatory till 1-1-10 EXCLUDING California (1-1-07) . As far as mislabelling, saying that its LSD when it really is ULSD vice-versa, well its AGAINST THE LAW. 20-40k fine for the fuel company. For a day or two they may let em slide, but months on in, doubt it. If u see one mislabeled, turn em in! Heck they'd rather pay your truck off or buy you a new one than have to pay 30k per-day in fines!! :)

Back to the orginal question, I think it's probably similar to when the EPA wanted unleaded gasoline, and catralytic converters. Anyone ever put leaded gas in a car with a catalytic converter? it clogs it up so bad with carbon, that the exhaust completely closes up and the engine won't run, I know this becasue my Uncle Joe did a nice demonstration with the company truck back in the 1980's. I have a feeling that putting the 500ppm LSD in the new trucks would very similar, just more expensive to fix.

In California, the state has mandated that ULSD be the only fuel available. Therefore, the EPA has exempted California from labeling dispenser pumps.

If u see one mislabeled, turn em in! Heck they'd rather pay your truck off or buy you a new one than have to pay 30k per-day in fines!! :)


who do you turn them in to? i spent all day yesterday researching. . . i guess i would call the texas department of agriculture??
i'm thinking i could sure use some extra mod money for my t-bird now that i have a truck payment. . .

who do you turn them in to? i spent all day yesterday researching. . . i guess i would call the texas department of agriculture??
i'm thinking i could sure use some extra mod money for my t-bird now that i have a truck payment. . .
In NC it is the NC Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services that regulates fuels and distribution.

Personally I think the problems of using ULSD in older diesels is overblown. The distributors are required to add lubricity additives to any fuel that does not meet standards, including ULSD. I use biodiesel, but if I did not I would not hesitate to put ULSD in my tank because it has to meet the same lubricity standards the old LSD met.

Putting LSD in a ULSD-only truck, now THAT would be a problem

I would doubt that any station these days are NOT carrying ULSD...I bet they havent updated their new stickers yet.I agree, and dont think youll cause any damage, esp after 3 tanks. Though the new ci 4 oil isnt able to handle the sulfer of the high sulfer fuel as well.