okay with starting a riot I would like to now how you feel about your Banks six-gunner. this place is like a commercial for juice/***. but after reading posts on stalling, erratic shifts, etc. I am considering the Banks.


Is it true Banks feels less powerful? or is it that the power comes on more smooth for tranny safety?


Anyway if you have a six gunner, do you like it? would you buy it again? has your truck acted funny in anyway since install?


your opinions please, good or bad.

They suck, buy the "Juice" cause everybody likes it!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif


Seriously though the Edge box makes more power and if your tranny is built for it why not?


Banks stuff is fine but it reminds me of the "safe and sane" fireworks that say "light fuse and get away"!


I always have more fun with illegal M-80's than the watered down stuff.


JMHO!


Blake

I have riden in a truck with the banks six gun and it just felt as if it did not have the same power. I would do your homework on this site and then make your own educated decision. I think you will find after you search that Edge Juice/Attitude is the way to go and you will not be disappointed at all...

Thanks for your input guys, so NWDmax and GMC2500HD both of you have never had any troubles with your juice??

It may depend on what you want to do with your power and how much extra you want to use.

Nope never had any issues, not since installation...

Burner


I'm not going to be racing or anything, just can't stand knowing the power is there all I have to do is access it.


I'm a general contractor and a camper so I tow pretty often.

iv read mulitiple 'negitive' banks threads from six-gun owners on this site, iv read some positive ones as well. do a few searchs and you'll find what your looking for.

OK, I'll chime in!


Buy the Banks!!!!


I love mine and have had NO problems with it!!!!


My Dyno numbers where right in line with the Edge whether others here want to admit it or not. Is it as fast on a drag strip? I'll admit that I haven't done that. Yet! I'll also admit that I haven't been up against one that had the Edge.


But you also asked if we where happy? DEFINITELY!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif


Would I buy again? DEFINITELY!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif


I also said I have had zero problems and I'm being truthful.


As far as being safe for the trans? I'm willing to bet that even with the numbers I got the trans may have told the 6-Gun to back off a little (see below). I definitely have the horsepower to hurt it if I wanted. The only way I'll find out though is after I have the trans done and funds won't allow that at this time.


Saying all of that though I feel they both have pros and cons. The Banks doesn't get rid of the speed limiter or have the built in gauges. however, it does automatically cut back on the power should it sense trans slippage or overheating. I believe the Edge also does this but only if set in advance. When I'm towing I don't want to worry about forgetting to do that and then try to do it while driving when it's telling me the motor is to hot.


Maybe I'm being to critical, but I like a little 'safe and sane'!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/hihi.gif

if you dont want to have to build your tranny Banks is great. I have one and it worked great with my stock tranny,but, if you've spent $ 4000 on a tranny upgrade you may feel the need for more...If your tranny can take it try the TTS Extreme.

Well, for what it's worth ...... I'll give ya my .02 worth.


I'm guessing that the Banks may be what you want...for now. It appears that the Banks HP flops between shifts to save the trans. This is something that you want when towing in higher HP levels. The Allison default or safty feature is always there, it's just your choice in programmer to defeat it or not. The Banks system does not defeat the safty feature. However, the EDGE gives you the ability to change this if you have a tranny upgrade. Also, EDGE provides a promiter that will back down the program if you exceed the EGT limmit, which you set. So........ if you're totally stock and just want a little extra power to tow with, then the Banks may be for you.


...... Why most seem to like EDGE.... this product comes with guages, adjustible or "on the fly" power adjustments, a safety EGT backdown, EGT defeat (has timmer), PYO, engine temp and some other stuff. The Attitude guage pod has it's own mount and there are some custom brackets for it as well. The Juice box can be installed in about 3 minutes andthe Attitude in 15 or so. Oh yeah, the Juice has more power too boot.


If you feel more safe with the Banks, then go for it. Just remember............ power is addictive and you will want more. ....... Save up for a tranny.





My .02 worth. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif


BTW, give John Kennedy a call, I think he sells both? He will know much more than I do.





Burner-------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

What Terrain Twister said. I've run mine against the Edge Juice w/attitude (125hp) with mine on level 5 and "Edged" it out with a couple of runs from standing start to speed limiter (fender length). Banks has also run against the 125hp Edge and beat it by half a second in the 1/4 mile, with the Banks set on level 6. You'll find their results under "Banks Race Box now available". They didn't try the Hot Juice (145hp) because of the tranny limp issue. Buy the Banks, you'll like it. Too many issues with the Edge for me.

Burner


I'm not going to be racing or anything, just can't stand knowing the power is there all I have to do is access it.


I'm a general contractor and a camper so I tow pretty often.





I tow my boat with the camper on all the time and have for 3 years and no isssues.I've got version 4.61 Hot Juice and tow on level 2 and level 3 for everything else.I've never limped the tranny and aside from a part throttle "fishbite" I get from time to time have had no probs.Just ran my daughter back to college in Seattle and got just a tick over 19 mpg in level 3.Needless to say I'm very happy with it!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif


Blake

DRAW!!!!





Oh wait, lemme reload, I still have rubber bullets in my 6 gunhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif...





In all honesty, I haven't trid the real race Banks, but the first release was not very impressive. I've been running the Van Aaken stuff most of the time now.





Guess I'll have to send mine for update...

I knew sooner or later the banks guy would chime in. Now this will get more interesting and hopefully it will be nice..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif

Blake, I'm with you on the Juice....... that's what I run most of the time. However, Andy was asking about the Banks 6-gun. There is more than enough info on Edge around here. In actuality the best boxes for quality and performance are probably TTS and Van Aaken. Both of these boxes tow really cool (low egt's) compared to everything else.





Bullshoter, If you feel safe with the Banks and think it will cover your needs.... got get it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif IMO any programmer/box you get are almost the same with 40 or 60 HP, where you should be towing. 60HP Towing is not really smart but you can do it with light loads. Anymore than 40 or 60 RWHP on a stock tranny will kill it.....it's just a matter of time.


Let us know what you decide. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif





Burner-------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif

been very happy with my banks six gun, and it has all the same features as the edge essentially.trans slip protection,egt fuel derate,plug in guages if you like,on the fly adjustment etc.Personally I feel the Banks is a "safer" unit on the vehicle than the EDGE overall.you will get plenty of opinions on which is best and which outpowers the other.If you want to race,more people would suggest the edge.If you want to tow,have much more power on tap and be able to get on it if you want safely,get the Banks!..Plus, Banks has been around for so long and their products have always been very good

And don't forget that customer service........ it's second to ??????http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif

Just got my gauges in, and getting close to adding some "wheaties" here soon. I'll being going with a Van Aaken product of some flavour. To me from my research it seems to be the all around box for what I need. I don't know why but its always BANKS vs EDGE and the VA stuff just kinda lurks in the shadows. It has the tranny protection as well, but if you want the whiz-bang stuff then the attitude is pretty groovy. FWIW the VA products seem to have a good portion of the market share on the new common rail cummins. There are a few dealers selling thier trucks with power adders and thats what they're putting on. Obviously the Edge isn't all bad because probably 80% of the forum members that have added something used a Juice of some derivitive. Generally there are anti-banks overtones I guess because they are percieved as the "big guy" and there is really no negative generalities made about the VA stuff.


Do the research - buy what you want.

if you want safety and do not want to really take your truck past a single box or build your tranny the banks box would be a good bet. if you want to go all the way get something else. I have the six gun with speed loader race version had since july ran 14.3 1/4 seems to run better then a edge 125, but as they say once you start you will want more,...

Thanks for all the input(kind of a touchy subject). It sounds like either one will be great, I'm still leaning toward Banks since I will be getting a Banks exhaust(another touchy subject) and kind of like having the same manufacturer.


not trying to build a race rig, just an everyday driver thats a little faster than most.


keep your opinions coming!!!

just go forward and get the Banks stuff and be done with it..you will be plenty satisfied.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

I have had my 6-gun for about a month now. I love it. No problems and the truck is a heck of a lot more fun to drive. It may not be as fast as other boxes but it is plenty fast for me. I mainly was looking for more power for towing and some added fun. I would recommend Banks.

i would try and find a couple nice local folks with both setups.. maybe they'll take you for a ride or let you drive so you can see for yourself... i know where to find a truck with each setup in my area..as well as others.

My .02-- If you're a rational, sensible type, especially if you tow, get the Banks. For the record, the gun/loader does run gauges directly. The gun does seem to defuel shifts severely, though it's still pretty stout. Smokes enough for most smoke-lovers at wot too. Consensus seems to be that it's not quite as strong as a 145hp Juice/***.


If you want to go full-bore, with a tranny upg and can't wait to see what Banks is going to add in near future, get a hot Edge/*** as it provides "gauges" and some settings Banks doesn't, and consider a TTS Extreme approach later, in conjunction with the Edge.


There is some reason to believe, though no firm details exist from Banks at this point, that Banks may be offering an attitude-style display/control panel in the future for the 'gun, along with possibly increased tune strengths, and maybe more controllability likr the attitude has.

I OWN A 04 DMAX 4X4 CREW CAB SHORT BOX W/6" FABTECH LIFT KIT & 33" MTR'S 3.73 AXLE...JUST BOUGHT A GUN W/SPEEDLOADER 4" MONSTER EXHAUST BIGHEAD WASTE GATE ACTUATOR ETC ETC ETC ...DUDE DOWN THE STREET BOUGHT SAME TRUCK AND OUTFITTED IT THE SAME AS MINE ONLY EH PUT IN THE EDGE I THINK HE ALSO IS RUNNING 35'S BUT THE REST I KNOW IS THE SAME....JUST WAITING TO GET DAYS OFF TO PUT KIT IN MY TRUCK..HOPEFULLY IN A COUPLE OF DAYS HAVE PUT ON 30000 KM OR JUST UNDE 19000MILES WITH NOTHING BUT LOVE FOR THIS TRUCK. HAD A 02 DOG 2500 4X4 H/O W /6 SPEED PRIOR TO W/ NOTHING BUT THE LOCAL MECHANICS LOVING IT WILL KEEP YOU POSTED ON OUTCOME OF GUNNER VS EDGE:ro)

Anybody got any updated info as to what is new for the LLY and when it will be ready? I thought someone here had a date to get the new Six Gun installed.

Pete

Someone did but it got pushed up from the 15th of nov. into mid dec. sometime. Some kind of problem with the manufacturing process for the wiring harness. But the chip itself is ready to go testing is done i beleve. Also i dont understand why people think the edge is making more power? Edge says 145hp on there top setting. Banks says 155hp on there top setting for the LB7 and i have been told the LLY will get the same ganes. So is edge making more than they advertize or what? Some one pleace clarify.

Edge gains are from highest hp stock to highest hp juiced. Banks gets tricky and uses "best gain" which means that somewhere on the dyno chart they pick the point where the two curves are farthest apart(at the same rpm) The peak may only be slightly more than stock, but they can quote big because there is one point in the curve that it is much higher than stock... See what I mean?

what happened to the big six gun/edge shootout..............

Max Paine: Ya i think I got it. Basicly your saying edge makes a consistant 145hp over stock through more of the power band than banks small porshon where their getting 155hp, is that correct?

Aron

Got thie e-mail from Banks today. This was in regards to info I requested on the 6 Gun for the LLY. Lets hope it's true!

_______________________________________________
Hello Peter, the sixgun or the sixgun bundle will be available for sale on 12-10-04

Raul Mendoza

Power Consultant

Gale Banks Engineering

546 Duggan Ave.

Azusa, CA 91702

Phone (626) 969-9600 Ext. 4120

Toll Free: (800) 438-7693

Visit us on the web: www.bankspower.com

E-Mail: ramendoza@bankspower.com

what happened to the big six gun/edge shootout..............maybe they are reviewing the finish line photo's to figure it out.):h

what happened to the big six gun/edge shootout.............. HAVE NOT YET MADE IT HOME FROM WORK YET-:t BUT ITS WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO PAY THE BILLS SHOULD BE HOME IN THREE OR FOUR DAYS.....HOPEFULLY:confused: WILL GIVE YOU RESULTS THOUGH. STARTING TO THINK I MADE A MISTAKE BY BUYING BANKS. LOT OF MONEY. HOPE ITS WORTH IT. THOUGHT I DID ENOUGH RESEARCH ON THIS . WHAT WOULD BE BEST TRANNY KIT TO BUY FOR THESE MODS TO GET FULL GAINS IN HP/TRQ THINKING THAT THIS WILL BE IT FOR UPGRADES. THANKS FOR INPUT

I have had great success with the suncoast............others have too.......the ats seems to work well now also.........There no finer service than dealing with Joe Webb and company @ Suncoast

I've had the Gun w/speedloader since April and love it. I had a problem with the first version I got with a surge, but a new unit from Banks fixed it. I would buy the Banks with gauges again, but I would buy directly from Banks and not a retailer. This will get you better customer service from them.

I've been running the 6gun/speedloader in my 03 for almost 20,000 miles now. I got the newer tuning in Sept and the additional acceleration reponse is great.

I have had one problem, power went back to normal levels, but I believe I had a loose wire, resetting connections solved the problem.

The power is very smooth. I run level 3 (40% of available power) all the time and occasionally use L4 (60%) if I need to shut someone down. Since the upgrade I've only tried level 5 once, it seemed to be about all the trans wanted to handle, truck sure moved though.

The torque curve works great for towing.

I have no complaints and am satisfied with the product.

I've had the Gun w/speedloader since April and love it. I had a problem with the first version I got with a surge, but a new unit from Banks fixed it. I would buy the Banks with gauges again, but I would buy directly from Banks and not a retailer. This will get you better customer service from them.
That is a pretty broad statement. There are lots of vendors out there that are willing to go the extra mile. I know that if there is a problem with a Banks product that we install we will get the replacement part, send the faulty one back, and install the replacement part at no charge to our customer. Banks does not pay me for that, or even pay my freight charges. I am sure that others will do the same to keep their customers happy. Find another shop.

I would buy directly from Banks and not a retailer. This will get you better customer service from them.
:mad:

or buy any edge product from anybody anywhere and call 1 801 476 3343 and get great service with no questions asked except for the address to ship the replacement:ro)

why would Banks treat you any different?:confused:.............Ive heard this before........Peter T are you there?

I would put the original 60 HP juice against the 6 gun and see how the race goes

I would put the original 60 HP juice against the 6 gun and see how the race goes

I'll take that bet

With the 6-gun set to what level? The 6-gun with speedloader set to anything higher than level 3 will smoke it out.

That is a pretty broad statement. There are lots of vendors out there that are willing to go the extra mile. I know that if there is a problem with a Banks product that we install we will get the replacement part, send the faulty one back, and install the replacement part at no charge to our customer. Banks does not pay me for that, or even pay my freight charges. I am sure that others will do the same to keep their customers happy. Find another shop.
It's not a problem with any vendors, expecially on here. I had good service with who I used, and they are a vendor here. Banks would not deal directly with me until I got PeterT involved, then everything went better than expected. Banks wanted me to deal with who I placed the order with, and not with them. That was B.S. Read Here: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8582

WELL I FINALLY MADE IT HOME & PUT 6 GUN W/LOADER EXHAUST & WASTEGATE IN BY MYSELF (NO XTRA HANDS) & ALL WENT WELL HARDEST PART WAS WAITING TO DRIVE IT. REALLY HAPPY W/ POWER GAINS REALLY THROWS YA IN THE SEAT NOW. HARDLY CAN TELL ITS GOT 33S UNDER IT. CANT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU GUYS THINK DA JUICE CAN BEAT IT. I MEAN IF IT MONITORES TRANNY SLIPPAGE LIKE BANKS KIT DOES HOW CAN IT BE ANY FASTER?? WITH TRANNY UPGRADES THATS A WHOLE NOTHER STORY OF COURCE, BUT W/ FACTORY TRANNY I JUST CANT SEE IT.:confused: AS FAR AS THE ROAD TEST BETWEEN GUY DOWN STREET HE WAS @ WORK WHEN I GOT HOME AND DIDNT GET HOME BEFORE I LEFT BACK TO WORK...SORRY BUT WE WILL HOOK UP I PROMISE & I WILL TELL ALL WIN OR LOSE:mad: THANKS FOR INPUT ON TRANNY UPGRADES WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT NEXT AS 5 & 6 SETTINGS ARE TOO MUCH FOR STOCK ALLY...TOOO BADD THINK IT COULD BE A LOT OF FUN JUST WAITING TO BE FOUND:ro) :ro) :ro)

It will be an interesting race.

After browsing through pages of this thread, a constant variable is transmission upgrades for the Allison. Exactly what upgrades are we talking about? I'm new to diesels and the jargon that is spoken here. However, I'm in the market to upgrade to either an Edge or Banks and would like to know EXACTLY what people are talking about when they mention upgrade. I mean, what exactly would be needed? What components? What replacement items? I'm really curious and would appreciate some dialogue on this subject. I don't wish to insult anyone's intelligence on this subject, but I'm what you called "diesel challenged" and would appreciate any clarification on the subject. Why are transmissions slipping? What is causing it? These are questions I have.

Thank you in advance of your help.

I had the banks in my d-max and was very satisfied with it. I wanted more power but didn't care about having the best in power. I was ultimately looking for an enhancement that looked into engine and especially transmission protection. The banks kit will turn off if egt's are in excess of 1400 degrees but only with speedloader installed. Also it does sense torque converter lock/unlock by tapping into the factory wiring harness to futher monitor transmission in addition to slippage monitoring. I

navajochef: The allison transmission has 2 sensors on it. One sensor is on the input shaft of the transmission and the other is on the output shaft of the transmission. Between these 2 sensors are all of your clutch packs etc. inside the transmission. When one of these clutches slip the speed of the input and output sensors do not match. If the match is greater than a certain amount for a certain time the transmission control module will put the transmission into limp mode (stuck in one gear until reset electronically) to protect it from any further damage (UNTIL NEXT TIME), thus why people upgrade transmissions to handle the extra horsepower and mostly the extra torque. You can put in the best engine enhancements but loose all the gains in transmission slippage. I have done a lot of research online and as near as I can tell anything over 700 # of torque can slip an allison depending on conditions of load and transmission shape.

Some performance upgrade kits, like banks and others, monitor the transmission slippage and back out of the power enhancement to prevent transmission slippage to the point of going to lock out. Keep in mind if the kit backs down on power due to the input and output sensors on the transmission not matching slippage must have occured. In my opinion it minimizes slippage such that it is less damaging over a longer time. I would also assume that a little slippage over a long time will also eventually require a tranny upgrade.

Some kits also backout of the power during shifting in an attempt to minimize transmission damage and sacrifice the power loss and quickness during a shift to improve the transmission lifespan.

As far as tranny upgrades this site is partial to suncoast. They provied a different torque converter and stronger clutches to put in the transmission designed to handle the extra power and torque.

Not a mechanic and I am sure that many on this site could do a much better job of explaining things,and correcting what I have said.

What it comes down to is how fast do you want to be, how much you want to spend to get there, and if you can live with "Enough power" (That's the tough one)

gelecon,
How do you like the Dodge 325/600 compared with the Duramax?

the dodge is much slower ramping into its power and the ride is not as good. (keep in mind no power enhancements to the dodge yet due to tranny concerns) I do miss the crew cab and the bells and whistles the my gm had. If I had to do it over again it would probably be another d-max for me. (Sorry Hoot) Maybe someday gm will make its truck so that it sits off the ground like a 4x4, like dodge and ford. I bought the dodge for ride height, long life of the cummins, carries a plow much better. I miss the allison and power of gm with the banks kit installed.

Too bad they don't make the Power Wagon with the diesel. That truck sits tougher still. I believe right now it's only available with the Hemi.

My Banks just came in today, and was wondering how long the install will take? I have already upgraded the air & exhaust so all I have to do is the manifold and the Six-Gun and Speed Loader w/ gauges.
Just wondering how much time I need to set aside.
Thanks

My brother and I installed the 6-gun without the speedloader in an hour and fifteen minutes. I took my truck into my dealer for them to install the egt probe. They pulled the wheel/tire and inner fender, took off the manifold, drilled, cleaned the inside of the manifold and reinstalled everything. They also ran the egt probe wire along the firewall and clipped it in place, along with running it inside some protective plastic. They even helped me pull it into the cab where I plugged it into the 6-gun module and reinstalled the dash. This took my dealership a little over an hour. You're probably looking at 2-2.5 hours with everything. I took my time to make sure everything went by the book. Do you have and LB7 or LLY?